Episode 145 - Listener Spotlight - Tom Hoos

[00:00:11] It is said in Catskill folklore that there is a hiker that haunts the mountains during Halloween. This hiker, who has only flip-flops, one bottle of water, and his cell phone for light, lingers on the mountain sides. They call him the Lost One.

[00:00:27] He is forever trapped between the trees. When the night falls and the moon is hidden, he stalks the trails, seeking out the careless and unprepared. Those who forget their headlamps, those who leave their water behind, and those who think the mountains are theirs to command.

[00:00:42] Some claim to have seen his eyes glowing dimly in the darkness, the shuffling scrape as if flip-flops on the stone. If you hear a faint, desperate whisper behind you, this is already too late.

[00:00:54] The last one is thirsty, and he's looking for somebody to take his place. So hikers, beware as you step in the shadow of the Catskills. Make sure you carry all that you need, or you might just become the next legend that haunts these trails.

[00:01:12] It's pretty good, right?

[00:01:14] Well, is that how you're introducing Thomas?

[00:01:17] The Lost One?

[00:01:19] No, Thomas is in the Lost One.

[00:01:21] I don't get lost.

[00:01:22] Not at all, not at all.

[00:01:25] So, what'd you think?

[00:01:26] It was pretty good, right?

[00:01:28] Yeah.

[00:01:29] Yeah.

[00:01:30] Yeah.

[00:01:30] Yeah.

[00:01:30] Yeah.

[00:01:31] Yeah.

[00:01:33] Hey, Thomas, how are you going to keep the headphones on the dog?

[00:01:36] Have you figured that out?

[00:01:40] She's sleeping behind me on the...

[00:01:42] Oh, please show me.

[00:01:44] Oh, I don't know.

[00:01:46] I can see it.

[00:01:47] Okay, you can see it.

[00:01:48] Okay.

[00:01:48] Oh.

[00:01:49] The excitement of Stasha's story wore her out.

[00:01:52] Right.

[00:01:54] Wasn't that bad?

[00:01:55] You just got back to normal.

[00:01:56] I did that.

[00:01:56] That was all myself.

[00:01:57] I did that all myself.

[00:01:59] So...

[00:01:59] I wouldn't be admitting to that, but I'm not you, so...

[00:02:03] That wasn't bad.

[00:02:04] Ted, if I asked you to come up with something, it would have...

[00:02:06] I don't know, you would have said something about baseball and...

[00:02:09] No.

[00:02:10] It would have been, um, and, uh, lost, and, um...

[00:02:16] Hey, hey, hey.

[00:02:17] Good, good.

[00:02:18] That's good enough.

[00:02:18] That's me.

[00:02:20] So, welcome to episode 145.

[00:02:22] Tonight, we have a listener spotlight.

[00:02:24] Tom, who's from Tom, who's outdoors, right?

[00:02:29] Yep, who's outdoors.

[00:02:30] Love it.

[00:02:31] He's going to be on the show tonight, talk about his experience in the Catskills,

[00:02:34] Delaware, Water Gap, Hudson Valley.

[00:02:36] He's all over the place around here.

[00:02:37] So, he's going to be here to talk about that tonight on episode 145.

[00:02:41] And it's a Halloween episode.

[00:02:42] So, we're going to be talking about other stuff as well.

[00:02:44] Hopefully, Tom, you don't have any crazy stories that you got lost and ran into the rivers

[00:02:50] and stuff like that.

[00:02:51] Right?

[00:02:52] No, no, uh, getting lost.

[00:02:54] Only a couple spots where I almost possibly panicked, but...

[00:02:58] Oh!

[00:02:59] Hold those for later.

[00:03:01] Hold those for later.

[00:03:02] Yeah.

[00:03:02] So, it's going to be a Halloween episode.

[00:03:04] This is going to be coming out the day after Halloween.

[00:03:07] So, what's up?

[00:03:09] Just so everyone knows, maybe that explains why Tom is wearing a Dodgers jersey in Yankees

[00:03:17] country.

[00:03:18] Is it?

[00:03:18] Yeah.

[00:03:19] Is it a Halloween costume?

[00:03:22] It is not.

[00:03:23] I've been a Dodgers fan even before, like, the 2020 shortened World Series.

[00:03:29] I got the, uh, they have tattoo on my arm.

[00:03:33] But it, Vin Scully was my, uh, baseball inspiration.

[00:03:38] Well, we're going to hold that against you, Tom.

[00:03:40] The questioning is going to be awful tough tonight.

[00:03:42] So, everybody stay tuned.

[00:03:43] I'm, this is Yankee revenge.

[00:03:46] That's what the episode is going to be known as.

[00:03:48] Yankee revenge.

[00:03:49] Tom's going 0 for 9.

[00:03:53] Luckily, not a lot of people care about baseball on this podcast.

[00:03:57] So...

[00:03:57] Thanks, Tosh.

[00:03:58] So, spookiest places to hike in the Catskills.

[00:04:01] You guys got any recommendations?

[00:04:03] Any thoughts?

[00:04:05] I was...

[00:04:07] The only thing I can think of besides, uh, some of the things you listed were, um, I

[00:04:16] don't know, sometimes the plane crashes, like the, uh, the jet on Van Wick.

[00:04:20] It's not, not so much creepy, but it's definitely a, uh, somber experience with, with any of the

[00:04:26] plane crashes, but that jet, I just can't imagine a jet crashing into the side of a mountain.

[00:04:33] It's, that's really, uh, dark.

[00:04:37] Yeah.

[00:04:38] Yeah.

[00:04:39] I, I would imagine the, the last few seconds where the, the plane is, you know, hitting the

[00:04:45] trees and the re realization sets in that you've hit land.

[00:04:51] That's got to be horrible.

[00:04:52] I'm going to say the spookiest place, um, also neat is the call between older bark and

[00:05:04] little Rocky and then going into little Rocky is, uh, majestically first growth boulders,

[00:05:15] really weird tree formations, um, and moss that is, is thick and spongy as it comes.

[00:05:26] It's the type of stuff.

[00:05:26] When you step on it, your foot goes down like four to six inches.

[00:05:30] It's luxurious.

[00:05:32] Nice.

[00:05:32] About no man's land over there.

[00:05:34] Yeah.

[00:05:35] And when I hit it, um, it was in may a few years ago, it was one of those, uh, foggy,

[00:05:40] misty mornings, which really just, you know, it was like the sprinkles on top of all that.

[00:05:46] So yeah, that's enjoyable.

[00:05:48] Very, uh, remote.

[00:05:50] I can see why that can be a kind of spooky place.

[00:05:53] A lot, a lot of the calls have kind of that spooky feeling because, you know, you're in

[00:05:58] the dark place of in between two mountains and you know, the air is whipping like crazy.

[00:06:03] And you kind of feel like if you're the only one out there, you kind of feel alone.

[00:06:07] You're just like, damn, maybe I should start moving up the mountain.

[00:06:11] It's definitely, there's a, there's a lot of spooky places.

[00:06:14] I mean, we could go with the biggest, of course, overlook hotel.

[00:06:18] That is definitely when you're at the right time, the right place, you know, when there's fog rolling in,

[00:06:23] it could look like something's been here.

[00:06:26] Of course, nobody, I don't think anybody perished in that fire.

[00:06:29] They got out all okay.

[00:06:32] Well, actually several fires that's happened there.

[00:06:34] And there's like three.

[00:06:36] So, but that's definitely could be a spooky place.

[00:06:39] Some of the places I've heard, uh, there's a place called murder's Creek and Athens,

[00:06:44] which is, uh, in the Northern Catskills.

[00:06:47] Uh, in 1813, Sally Hamilton was murdered and her body was dumped in the waters of the Creek

[00:06:54] of the Schaharie river.

[00:06:55] A poem about her death was written by Samuel Dunn and published on Broadside.

[00:06:59] Now, this is also a place where they found her body.

[00:07:03] And now they think that this is a place that has been condemned with the, with spirits and spiritual stuff,

[00:07:10] uh, for over 200 years.

[00:07:12] And, uh, that is a place that, uh, that I think that is a little condemned.

[00:07:19] There's a Dundas castle in Roscoe.

[00:07:23] Roscoe is, is definitely one of the, to be, to be honest, Roscoe is a great place, but it seems a little dark at times.

[00:07:32] Is that, is that, am I the only one that feels like that?

[00:07:36] I'm not too familiar.

[00:07:37] Yeah.

[00:07:37] I've seen photos of that.

[00:07:39] I've never been there as an interesting history.

[00:07:41] Um, it's remarkable that it's still standing.

[00:07:44] It is.

[00:07:45] And it's, uh, wasn't it one of these places that was donated to the state and the state just never did anything with it.

[00:07:51] Yeah.

[00:07:51] Early 1880s, uh, an architect built it, uh, on a thou like a little thousand acres and stuff like that.

[00:07:59] She said they reminded her of her home and stuff like that in 1903.

[00:08:04] They sold the property to another person.

[00:08:06] Four years later, 1907, he sold it to another person, which was Ralph Wurtz Dundas.

[00:08:12] And Dundas was wealthy and prominent, prominent person.

[00:08:15] He wanted to expand into the beaver kill area, but couldn't because of course the beaver kill was a sacred place for, uh, fly, fly fishing and stuff like that.

[00:08:24] Um, so also saw the beaver kill lodge and said that he wanted to compete with them.

[00:08:30] Now, uh, between 1910 and 1924, there was construction, but it never got completed.

[00:08:35] And unfortunately his wife died in 1921 and left it alone.

[00:08:39] The castle was inherited by their daughter Morelle, who is also said it was worth around $40 million at the time in 1921.

[00:08:50] So that was a pretty insane.

[00:08:53] In 1945, they sold the property for $47,000 to Prince hall grand lodge of the messa Masonic order, uh, Manhattan based organization of African African African American masons.

[00:09:06] who wanted to create a masonic home for the age indigenous, uh, unfortunately did not happen.

[00:09:12] And over time, camp Eureka bought it.

[00:09:15] And now today it is saved by the, uh, by the state and it is accessible.

[00:09:20] So, uh, yeah.

[00:09:23] So I'm thinking Stache.

[00:09:24] Why don't we head out over there and do a live recording, right.

[00:09:28] Of the, the show go out there remote.

[00:09:31] We'll go remote.

[00:09:32] what was that movie called which are uh where it was really weird they had like the the go

[00:09:38] look like the gopro i oh the blair witch project yeah we could do stuff like that

[00:09:45] do all that weird stuff i am so scared yeah yeah i'm so scared right now

[00:09:51] it's bigfoot it's a mountain lion like must be you know also you know i was looking i was

[00:09:58] looking at stuff there's not much about devil's tombstone you think that would be kind of like a

[00:10:03] spooky scary place but it just it basically says because it was called the devil's path because

[00:10:08] it was so uh crazy to hike that there is this one big rock there that was pushed there by glacial

[00:10:14] radix that uh that's that's called the devil's tombstone because it's in between the two paths

[00:10:20] it has nothing to do with with like a spooky scary background i'm kind of disappointed yeah

[00:10:28] i also heard that's on the line of manitou is that yeah that's i i read that in a couple different

[00:10:35] places we can do a deep dive on that sometime you know we have nothing else to talk about we can

[00:10:40] try to figure out the origin of that name and how it interrelates or integrates with the

[00:10:48] the line of manitou yeah i i was surprised you know devil's tombstone you think would be a crazy

[00:10:54] story but it's like yeah that was pushed here and it's there because uh a glacier pushed it there and

[00:11:01] now it's just be called that because of the devil's path yeah well if if we come up with a crazy story

[00:11:05] and we repeat it every halloween for the next 50 years it'll become war it will it will cement our our

[00:11:15] our you know reputation our legacy with the three to six people that listen to us yeah

[00:11:22] we'll be rock stars tom what do you think you're the one of the people that listen to us i think

[00:11:26] i think i think you have more than three to six i've told at least a half a dozen people

[00:11:32] about the podcast and i maybe two or three of them picked it up

[00:11:38] so between the people you know and i know and tad knows i mean we gotta have

[00:11:44] nine yes i was gonna say nine let me here let me count them good thing i have ten fingers okay yeah nine i

[00:11:50] come up with nine people who are listening and now we're down to eight because you're not going to

[00:11:55] listen to this episode tom so so it's talking about spooky have you ever heard i know i i i

[00:12:02] touched base on this have you ever heard the the catskill witch the story of the catskill witch you

[00:12:06] guys ever heard that yeah i have not i've heard oh well i know i touched up on this i don't know when

[00:12:12] it was but uh so i heard this kind of like a folk tale from a while ago uh my wife jessica actually

[00:12:20] heard about this too and it's told about a a witch that lived amongst the catskills and it was pretty

[00:12:26] cool because i thought where it was was kind of like appropriate it was up on north south lake area up on

[00:12:32] north mountain so i'll read it quickly uh a little overview from uh it's it's retold by

[00:12:39] s.e schloscher i don't know that sounds pretty weird but uh they say the catskill mountains was

[00:12:45] once a home of a giant monster that fed on human beings until the great spirit turned it to stone

[00:12:50] on one evening as it traveled across the ocean to bathe the bones of the monster became a new

[00:12:56] mountain and rainwater filled the eye sockets forming two lakes near the summit north south lake

[00:13:01] at the peak of this mountain lived the catskill witch who managed to wet the weather for the whole

[00:13:06] hudson valley it was she who let out day and night in holding back uh the other who was at large so

[00:13:13] they would not conflict she cut up the wanting moons to use as stars as soon as she'd hung the new moon in

[00:13:19] the sky she could sometimes be perching on the north mountains spinning clouds and flinging them to the

[00:13:24] winds the hudson valley residents said that if they showed their catskill witch to her evidence

[00:13:29] she would then form thick black clouds that spun and held thunderstorms and threw them towards floods of

[00:13:36] rains and launched lightnings causing disastrous flooding in their streams and blasting home of

[00:13:40] the mockers when she was happy the catskill witch would take form of a bear or a deer and lead hunters

[00:13:45] to a merry dance vanishing as they draw nearer assuming the terrible shake that they overtook her

[00:13:51] sometimes she would lean them to cliffs and would leap into the air mocking ho-ho

[00:13:55] as she stopped short on the brink of the vets now a garden rock uh was a spot where the catskill

[00:14:01] witch was often found and as a foot of lunti war once lake that spread the magical place was

[00:14:06] holded awed by locals and no hunter would ever willingly pursue this quarry there the witch catch

[00:14:12] her magic in guards and this place she would use to summon the rain sometimes she would cut off a piece

[00:14:18] of gourd to bury it in the ground immediately cold water would bubble up and surface to form a new spring

[00:14:24] now one day a hunter lost his way and emerged from the forest from the edge of the lake of the garden

[00:14:28] rock he looked about in fear and awe and saw several magic gourds stored in this arm of treat tempted by

[00:14:36] the thought that he could control the rain with which gourd the man kept to the tree and removed one

[00:14:40] the small gourd was so heavy that he almost dropped to his knees arms straight in the carry weight cursing

[00:14:46] himself the hunter staggered away from the tree knowing he was leaving footprints behind but unwilling to

[00:14:51] release his pride suddenly he stumbled over a small stone and fell on his face the gourd rolled out of

[00:14:57] his arms smashed open at the feet of the catskill witch who had been observing the hunter from behind

[00:15:01] in a nearby bush at one spring weld from the magic gourd she washed away his soul his life and took him

[00:15:08] down to catskill creek and he was thrown over the caterskill falls area and that's about it that's

[00:15:17] pretty cool stuff i thought that was a great so tom and i sorry yeah tom and i are wondering what you're

[00:15:22] drinking tonight stosh good stuff yeah uh-huh yeah what's the what's the alcohol content to that good

[00:15:29] stuff buddy i can't make that stuff on my own that's pretty good well you claim to make the first story

[00:15:35] up on your own now the first one was was mine but i thought that was a really cool story and i yeah it

[00:15:41] kind of seems pretty neat i kind of want to i know it's all folklore and stuff but i want to go find where

[00:15:46] this rock is yeah i and and i'll substantiate that that story is out there i've read it before okay

[00:15:56] i don't know if it's true or not it i mean you know it probably is true what do you think tom you think

[00:16:00] that's a true story some witch of the catskills taking hunter souls i think the uh the uh no rain

[00:16:07] in october i mean someone must have pissed her off pretty bad yeah there you go right which up the

[00:16:14] month of the upset witch right yeah good point that was what we should call it well done tom yeah

[00:16:20] she's obviously a yankees fan yeah maybe walk off home runs and stuff like that so yeah no grand slam

[00:16:28] sorry uh so yeah so uh let's move on if we're talking about the north south lake area let's get on to some

[00:16:36] like trail updates and news and stuff like it got a lot of trail updates and news from the dec so the dec

[00:16:44] said that the south lake road within the north south lake campground and day use area in the town of

[00:16:49] hunter has been closed for dam maintenance now i'm guessing this is i thought at once time it was

[00:16:55] the the southern part so where you you get in the fork after you get in through the gate you take the

[00:17:00] the right that goes in the southern part but it seems to be that all of the the area is closed it

[00:17:06] says it says south lake road in the south lake dam will be closed to public use for duration

[00:17:11] of the construction project and parking will be limited to the parking area at the entrance to the

[00:17:16] facility now that seems like both forks are closed to the public because i'm pretty sure in the winter

[00:17:23] you can get in there for free and if there's no snow you can park at like mary's glen and then over

[00:17:29] towards the catskill mountain house area but it seems like this is you have nine spots to park

[00:17:37] and then you've got to walk three miles to the catskill mountain house is that am i the only one

[00:17:43] that thinking that well you're more familiar with that area than i am and we all know what my experience

[00:17:51] in the parking area over there was scott road a whole different area man is it really yeah

[00:17:57] that same vicinity it is it is okay yeah so yeah because you can loop in the cat or skill falls

[00:18:04] of them through there yeah it's yeah well i guess it's a good time of year to do maintenance like

[00:18:09] that it is it is well it's it's shut down well the the it's shut down and there's no leaves on the tree

[00:18:16] so nobody's going to come in there so that's a good idea um they said it will bring the dam into

[00:18:20] compliance with new york state dam safety regulations and i'm kind of wondering if this was planned or this

[00:18:28] was kind of brought on forth by the the flooding down in north carolina that has recently happened

[00:18:35] from the reservoirs and stuff like that they had to like be like oh we better start because that's

[00:18:41] that's scary stuff well the story i heard it's there's a um migration of mountain lions coming

[00:18:49] through from massachusetts and they had to close down that area that's where the mountain lions are going

[00:18:55] through and so they they drummed up that story about a dam that was told to me by the catskill witch

[00:19:03] there's a bunch of them out there just let you know yeah yeah so yeah so uh i'm not i gotta get i

[00:19:09] gotta get like investigate more into that so it seems like the the south fork is closed i don't know about

[00:19:15] the north park that goes up to mary's glenn and over to the catskill mountain house area i mean if they

[00:19:21] said it's going to be limited the parking area to the entrance that i seriously think there's like

[00:19:26] five or six spots that you can park there so very weird so it opens may 16th uh in 2025.

[00:19:34] so also we're talking well let's trail updates balsam lake mountain wild forest dc operations crew

[00:19:41] is constructing a new bridge to replace the failing bridge on the kelly hollow loop trail in balsam lake

[00:19:45] mountain wild forest i am not familiar with this uh ted have you been there recently uh i have not

[00:19:52] been there for two winters i'm pretty sure i know the bridge they're speaking of there's a fantastic

[00:19:58] photo of it on my instagram feed but yeah i mean there's a couple bridges out there i remember the one

[00:20:05] was kind of sketch uh but if you want a low intensity well low physical intensity hike in terms

[00:20:12] of vertical gain that's a great place to go out and hike it is out in the western cat so for those

[00:20:18] of you who are in the hudson valley or downstate or in lonely new jersey like tom it's a haul but it is

[00:20:26] worth it i see what they're talking about yeah is it on the north side of that loop uh it looks to be

[00:20:34] yeah it looks to be yeah yeah that's that's not a bad loop kelly hollow i haven't i haven't been there

[00:20:41] i gotta go there okay we've got to complete that on the all trails challenge okay that's my next spot

[00:20:45] yeah tom you you ever do huckleberry loop no there was talk of uh with some of the people that i hike

[00:20:54] with of doing it as a social hike it's been on the list i've heard of it but uh it hasn't been done in

[00:21:01] that area it's a great it's a nice area yeah definitely so uh also trail more trail updates i got a

[00:21:08] i got a bunch here so uh in the hunter westkill wilderness trail crew from tahos trail has

[00:21:13] completed a trail improvement for the devil's path near geiger point this project involved an

[00:21:18] installation of stone turf hiking and step stones that are closing off her paths that develop over

[00:21:23] time as the hikers attempted to avoid muddy sections off the trail now that's pretty cool i

[00:21:28] gotta admit uh geiger point has actually grown in i think you know cutting those trees down even

[00:21:34] though it sounds horrible would have been great because that's an absolute phenomenal viewpoint

[00:21:38] hopefully as well they fixed uh they put some stone paths in through the hunter trail going up from

[00:21:45] sprucedon that led through the the top parts near where it got up in the balsams even though trucks

[00:21:52] could travel through there it seemed like people were making it even wider than the trucks because

[00:21:57] of the mud hopefully putting stones right in the middle of that would have solved that problem i've

[00:22:02] taken pictures several pictures over the years going through that and it's just gotten wider and wider up

[00:22:07] towards the top yeah so that's that's what i would call now the horse trail yep okay yeah that's that

[00:22:15] needs some work i don't know if it was as urgent as the devil's path section true true i mean good point

[00:22:22] yeah but i mean i mean a lot of people what is 20 what did you say 27 000 people might have went up there

[00:22:29] for the for the fall foliage foliage that we had before so yeah i mean it's that's a very popular loop and

[00:22:36] there's a lot of perks i mean you get great views you have the the fire tower uh i'm sure the west

[00:22:41] killed brewery is something that makes that even more of an attraction because when you're done

[00:22:46] hiking you can go over and grab a brew true good place also windham blackhead range i know we've

[00:22:53] talked about this uh before trail crew from the tall australia started construction on a minor re-route of

[00:22:59] the blackhead trail between lacklis gap and blackhead mountain uh this is uh the aligned trail re-route

[00:23:05] will replace a particular steep section of the trail which has been prone to erosion and trail

[00:23:10] widening the existing route will remain open until the route is completed now i was i was planning on

[00:23:16] going there but i decided not to because i just wanted to see what part they were doing i have a

[00:23:21] feeling i know where they're doing it's a little bit steeper up kind of towards that that first

[00:23:27] viewpoint on blackhead where it has a really cool rock that looks like it's been uh plastered several

[00:23:34] times by the waves of of the old lake that used to be there but i'm not quite sure because there's

[00:23:41] a bunch of sections going up from the lockwood gap that does need some help and this is this is a good

[00:23:47] this is a good time to do it so so stosh you know what uh or i mean tom you know what stosh was talking

[00:23:53] about that section i do know that spot and i think uh i don't know how long they plan out for that but

[00:24:01] i think i can remember seeing the like the orange flags that they hang for like when they make a new

[00:24:08] route or whatever i don't know how long ago they would have done that but i think stash is right

[00:24:13] on the spot because that is a really steep yeah well steep i remember my first time going up there

[00:24:21] and two plus feet of snow maybe three spots with drifting or four and it was one of the i was going

[00:24:27] solo and it's one of those days where you know every step you took forward and up you slid back

[00:24:35] yeah step and a half right so always it was almost like one of these you know comedies where you're

[00:24:41] like almost trying to run uphill in the snow and you're just sliding downhill but i eventually i made it

[00:24:48] yeah i mean reroute or no reroute it was going to be a tough day that day so we'll see what they

[00:24:54] any part of blackhead will be a tough day you know we're talking about erosion we we have some

[00:25:01] of course on that side that tom was talking about that it's just steep where where when the dirt is

[00:25:07] there you're just kind of like kicking it and kicking it so i mean it's a good it's a good time to

[00:25:12] to do it to think about it of course because we're getting more traction up there actually less

[00:25:16] traction more and i think one of the issues is and i don't know how the reroute would actually address

[00:25:22] this or not but i have the sense that when folks go up there in the winter and the trail the traveled

[00:25:30] portion of the trail is now turned into that mono rail of ice people will walk to the left or right

[00:25:37] because they're not equipped to go on the ice and by walking to the left or the right you're doing what

[00:25:43] you're killing the vegetation now when the vegetation dies off the root structure isn't there to hold the

[00:25:49] soil anymore it just starts to wash and erode away it's a vicious vicious process it is so yeah glad

[00:25:57] they're doing something about it with us all three of us being avid hikers in the catskills we see it a

[00:26:03] lot and you know people just want to avoid those sections want to avoid mud and like you know with

[00:26:09] us we do that's what that's what i enjoy i enjoy getting money i don't give a and you know i just

[00:26:15] enjoy going through that and getting to that that part of feeling where i was freaking wild yeah well that's

[00:26:22] you're saying a lot there stosh you you don't give a shit you like getting money money and you feel

[00:26:27] wild um that really says a lot about your inner core right that's good right well we're going to call

[00:26:35] you the savage now that's going to be your name savage savage a f what's let's come up coming to you

[00:26:42] tonight from the savage studios snow nice okay we rebranded you i also want to note to all you fans

[00:26:51] tom is nicely dropped his i guess it's his left shoulder so i don't have to look at that big la

[00:26:58] dodgers logo on his sleeve so i feel better now it's a little triggering triggered for for

[00:27:07] yeah sure it'll be triggered for nobody that listens to this so also sundown wild forest dec operations

[00:27:13] are constructing a newly expanded parking area we talked about this last time uh i don't know how far

[00:27:18] they've gotten the project is located in the former trailer parking area so if you go south of the

[00:27:24] peak and moose parking lot for where you hike people moves mountain it's been tough for the past years i

[00:27:29] get that of course without a a uh reserve or registration um you'll see that that is expanded uh once again

[00:27:37] uh approximately now it's going to accommodate approximately 55 cars now i know that good old

[00:27:44] peak amuse area would accommodate probably eight and then the former area would probably accommodate

[00:27:51] probably like six so it's kind of a big expansion it's a big lot i was just back there uh two weeks

[00:28:00] ago but i understand that they uh actually eliminated some other parking lots for the campers as well as

[00:28:09] those other locations along the road so there are they are consolidating parking areas

[00:28:16] so nat i don't know how many parking spaces they're gaining but 55

[00:28:22] had broken up yep that's the first time pad you broke up a little bit yeah i was late paying my

[00:28:29] internet oh well it's it's mental for the wedge teague on my part it's this yeah it's this dodgers jersey

[00:28:38] i mean it's a casual break tom you should take the jersey off no no yeah that's interfering with my

[00:28:44] stride okay tom do you think being up there recently do you think that's kind of a good improvement or

[00:28:51] like you know how many permits do they like on any given day do they issue do you anybody know 55 one per car

[00:29:03] oh so it is 55 then i mean if they consolidate it'll if everybody parks like a a normal person it'll probably

[00:29:10] work pretty good because it is a big space but who knows i i still think they should keep those other

[00:29:17] those other spots like the one by the blue hole like that's the main trailhead to go up peek and moose

[00:29:22] from that side and i don't know the other one that's that's further down like if you're going up

[00:29:29] van wick yeah that's that one that we also go to bangle hill and stuff yeah that's that holds about six

[00:29:36] cars you know so it's it's definitely one once again it's with these times of where you're just like

[00:29:42] what the hell did we do because that area is a tight area

[00:29:47] and uh you know we're just like you know once again like everybody like tom is is just looking at

[00:29:54] the screen and tad is looking at screen like what the hell do we do because it's a popular area will

[00:29:58] it die down will we like see relief in that area we can hike it once again without caring i mean i've

[00:30:06] saying that i did peek a moose mountain on a weekend where i got a parking spot at nine o'clock

[00:30:11] without getting any uh permit so yeah i i think the issue is

[00:30:20] they should look into some level of shuttle service and the catskills um instead of adding

[00:30:28] all those parking spaces that can go to people that want to hang out at the the blue hole they should

[00:30:34] really limit the number of permits for the blue hole itself i don't know if they're doing that already

[00:30:38] or not but my sense is you can't have 55 cars full of people going to the blue hole on a saturday or

[00:30:48] sunday right in the blue it's so accessible too it's like from the parking lot it's like a five minute

[00:30:55] road walk and then a five minute trail walk and you're you're right there so it's it's you don't want

[00:31:02] to go into the mountains but want to see like the beauty of of nature and the blue hole which is

[00:31:09] something that's like almost tropical it's it's an easy access for a lot of people and the problem is

[00:31:16] the more people that go back there the more foot traffic you have the more trampling you have the

[00:31:20] vegetation and the less of that wilderness experience will exist for you know future generations future

[00:31:30] people that want to go there it's going to become more and more you know domesticated and i said this

[00:31:36] before i'll say it again the dec just ought to build some place or a couple of places along 28 i suggested

[00:31:43] previously they do it at bel air beach right and they they should put places along 28 and 23 and other

[00:31:54] areas along main thoroughfares that folks can hang out at a blue hole like feature and maybe even put

[00:32:03] like a rope swing there you know and some other things like that and people can you know go nuts they can

[00:32:09] have like set up these cameras for selfies or you know action shots and make money you know a

[00:32:17] petting zoo with bears and bobcats and mountain lions you know it could be really nice it sounds good

[00:32:24] i think you should propose that i am i'm going to start circulating a petition let me go now yeah

[00:32:31] i'm signing as soon as the as soon as the yankees win the world series i'll be on it tom

[00:32:36] yeah i gotta i gotta sign all right you gotta show up yeah it was hurtful so let's can we stay away

[00:32:44] from freaking baseball overpaid overpaid athletes watch hockey watch some freaking hockey wow what's

[00:32:50] going on here where you got some pretty legit all right so like fully so have you seen the damage done

[00:32:58] to the giant ledge trail register i had i had this has been going on for a while so i'm showing you

[00:33:07] guys a picture right now uh what do you what do you think that's crazy right or are you suggesting

[00:33:12] it's vandalism no no i'm just suggesting that it hasn't this has been for tom how long has it been

[00:33:20] it's been at least a month or so maybe even more than that right yeah a couple months i think because

[00:33:27] that was that was that was our party that was recently this weekend but but because i remember

[00:33:35] something i was in a windstorm or something but yeah it's been like that for for months i would say

[00:33:44] at least you know we're talking about the the map kiosk giant ledge at one of the most popular

[00:33:54] hiking destinations in the catskills so this is what you do folks is this weekend you bring up your

[00:34:02] elderly parents your elderly grandmother whomever uh you bring them over to the kiosk you put them down

[00:34:08] under the kiosk and then call the rangers and say that it fell on them oh yeah and then when they're

[00:34:16] after the rangers take photos fill out incident reports and take grandma or granddad to the local

[00:34:21] hospital you call our attorneys do we hike more and how and they'll be on the case they'll be on the

[00:34:28] case grandma or grandpa i will recover millions of dollars from the state of new york yeah because

[00:34:34] the kiosk fell on them so so what i'm trying to get at after tag goes on this tangent my promotion

[00:34:41] for our attorneys yeah better than the catskill witch yeah i mean that was pretty good um so like i i went up

[00:34:49] recently i went up to bel air and i saw that the amazing work that they've done up there but then i

[00:34:56] see this that has been left for months that could easily fixed within god not even a hundred yards

[00:35:04] of a road and you know this is i know you can still see some information but i gotta admit you know

[00:35:12] coming to one of the most beautiful places and beautiful views in the catskills seeing this is kind

[00:35:16] of like like why would i want to come back to this place that it looks like absolute yeah i'll i'll agree

[00:35:22] with you but just remember that the bel air ski area makes money i know well no it's now run by the

[00:35:31] state olympic authority and not the dec so explain that it's a whole different state agency that runs the ski

[00:35:40] area now up until x number of years ago i don't know exactly when they transitioned from the dec to

[00:35:47] the olympic authority but historically it was run by the dec or its predecessor and for budgetary reasons

[00:35:56] and the efficiency of white face and gore mountain are also run by the olympic authority they wisely

[00:36:04] if you're with the olympic authority decided to transfer management of bel air to the olympic authority

[00:36:14] so um things things you know arguably happen at different pace over at the olympic authority than

[00:36:20] they do at dec properties i'm not saying the dec is slower but it's just you know it's under different

[00:36:26] management now but again that kiosk i don't know what it takes to redo it but it's not something that you

[00:36:34] need a dec crew to do you can hire like they use trail haas to do trail work they can hire some

[00:36:41] outside contractor to come in in a day that would yeah and it's just two four by fours or six by sixes

[00:36:49] and then the little canopy over it um yeah somebody could make it in their shop and then bring it up on

[00:36:55] the back of their truck and erect it on site you know you don't have to do a ton of work on site and

[00:37:00] then with and then stash you know what they do when they're done rebuilding this kiosk

[00:37:05] they go up the hill to the slide parking area and what do they build there

[00:37:10] brick and bridge bridge tom knows like it did with that four million dollar settlement that your

[00:37:18] grandma precisely they'll name it after her grandma's bridge it just it it blows my mind that this is still

[00:37:25] sitting there like that you know it's it's it's one of the the probably i would say the the second or

[00:37:31] third most popular spot in the catskills that people are walking by it and like what the hell is this

[00:37:38] and you know i know tad you i know you don't go there often at all uh but you know i i kind of like for

[00:37:46] a quick easy hike to get good views you know during on on a weekday i will go up there and fly up there

[00:37:52] and get good views and then hit panther maybe but like that just like it kind of like god damn why

[00:37:58] like it's just at least you know tom i'm glad you were here to kind of confirm that it's been months

[00:38:04] i i was i was i was like kind of like second guessing myself i'm like god i remember seeing

[00:38:10] this a long time ago but and then folks will be driving up to the catskills this weekend listening

[00:38:16] to the podcast all seven of them and they're going to go to this trailhead and there's going to be a

[00:38:23] fully reconstructed and erect all right ask there because as we speak they're probably doing it i hope

[00:38:29] they hear this i hope so i'll have to start it off with this instead of that uh that folklore that i did

[00:38:35] darren white who supports the show gave me this uh piece of information that seneca meadows landfill

[00:38:41] uh is passing over its like resolution for the dec to investigate so seneca meadows is where basically

[00:38:51] i would say almost all of new york state sends their trash to mostly downstate sends their trash to uh

[00:38:58] up towards the finger lakes up towards the top of the finger lakes now they said uh seneca meadows

[00:39:03] landfill is in the hands of the new york state dec now uh seneca medica the seneca county board of

[00:39:09] supervisors voted on tuesday october 22nd saying that the dec needs to investigate any harmful effects

[00:39:15] from continued landfill operations multiple speakers showed up at the meeting support concerned

[00:39:20] about how the landfill could impact health of both local neighbors and the environment including a

[00:39:26] facility member from the waterloo middle school uh they said the worst day is when it affected both the

[00:39:32] middle school at the waterloo and the high school at waterloo we couldn't even open up the windows

[00:39:36] because when you open up the windows recycled air traps inside the building i couldn't even a man's

[00:39:41] bill and imagine that uh the lance fills operators applied a permit to continue operations through

[00:39:48] 2040 to expand in size yeah that's pretty pretty messed up i mean what uh what else what the hell is we

[00:39:55] going to do get an incinerator and sold organic well i think the the more immediate solution and

[00:40:01] more cost effective is arguably when you go to the grocery store uh avoid buying these uh non-composed

[00:40:09] compostable single-use uh containers and you know packages kind of things i i can say that i haven't

[00:40:19] completely eliminated uh single-use drinks and plastic containers but a few weeks will go by before i buy one

[00:40:29] it's tough yeah if i'm out and i'm going to buy something to drink a single-use beverage container

[00:40:36] i'm going to get something that comes in a can i'm not going to buy one of those small sodas that

[00:40:42] comes in a plastic container i'm going to buy something in a can because the percentage of those getting

[00:40:46] recycled is greater than the plastic products according to what i've read um but the shame is is

[00:40:53] unlike 20 some years ago um when stosh was just a toddler you you go to the grocery store now 20

[00:41:02] years i was 20 years old oh all right well so but you know it's it just seems you go to the store these

[00:41:07] days and they thrive on single-use packaging plastic packaging stuff that you know goes to a landfill

[00:41:15] and just stays there for decades for an eternity yeah that's depressing to talk about but it's real it's

[00:41:22] real so re reduce reduce and recycle triple r i mean you know it's tough it's tough to do you know

[00:41:31] my wife jessica is starting to do that a lot you know get rid of single plastic single-use plastic

[00:41:36] stuff like that it's it's a tough it's tough task you got to get used to it but you can do it it's you

[00:41:42] know yeah it takes a little discipline it does it does and uh i mean if if anybody's ever been to

[00:41:49] like a third world country you can see that plastic single-use plastic is insane i've been there and

[00:41:55] it's just it's disgusting so whatever you can do you can save our our our area our you know your area

[00:42:03] whatever just do it so thank you darren for that a little bit of update we'll see where where the

[00:42:08] the incinerator down in sullivan county goes from here upon this i haven't heard anything yet so

[00:42:15] uh let's uh we're gonna skip the the the uh the grizzly bear 399 i mean we're we're 45 minutes into

[00:42:24] this so that's not good so who would who would rather thomas what would you rather talk about

[00:42:29] the grizzly bear or the north face um i thought the north face was definitely interesting that that's the uh

[00:42:36] cutting the uh switchback yeah yeah so we'll go right i mean the grizzly bear is is definitely

[00:42:43] a shame too i mean i she was like i guess a legend yeah yeah so i'll go over that really quickly so

[00:42:51] unfortunately a little horrible incident uh grizzly bear 399 fatally struck in the snake river canyon

[00:42:58] over in jackson wyoming so on the evening of october 22nd 2024 grizzly bear 399 was fatally struck

[00:43:06] on highway 2689 in snake river canyon south of jackson wyoming the bear identity was confirmed through

[00:43:13] microchip now she has a yearling cub and she has been a legend of course in the jackson wyoming the

[00:43:19] grand tetons area uh for years upon years upon years 28 years old oldest stone reproducing female

[00:43:26] grizzly bear the greatest greater yellowstone ecosystem um wildlife collisions happens all the

[00:43:33] time unfortunate uh the driver was okay unfortunately 399 has died and uh was basically iconic species of

[00:43:42] the greater yellowstone area the grand tetons uh area and uh one of the most photogenic kind of bears

[00:43:50] that they'd see they'd everybody would see it take pictures of it was huge it had always had babies

[00:43:54] and stuff like that it definitely will be missed um and you know one of these instances in those

[00:44:01] fordnance incidents the person wasn't speeding wasn't doing any negligent uh process unfortunately it was an

[00:44:08] uh occurring accident that was bound to happen of course with the growing popularity of the national

[00:44:14] parks and stuff like that so ah it sucks 28 years old you know hopefully it's it's it's legend will live

[00:44:22] on with it's uh uh as cubs and stuff like that so r.i.p so tom moment of silence nice you ever hear a

[00:44:33] hit a deer with your car on your way to the cats or i did not in a long time and don't jinx me knock on

[00:44:40] wood but uh yeah years ago i did and did like i don't know eighteen hundred dollars worth of damage

[00:44:46] not fun it happens i almost on sunday going up to hike with mike kudish on my way out

[00:44:51] uh i had i had to go into a four tire skid to avoid uh a deer crossing the road on 23a yeah those i was

[00:45:01] able to pull it off in the early morning hours didn't it didn't hit her and that jeep yeah i don't

[00:45:07] i don't have abs on the jeep so listen tad that was the most uncomfortable ride i've ever had

[00:45:14] and that was only like five miles i seriously felt like i was in a military like vehicle going through

[00:45:21] i don't know like the grand sahara and just sitting there like yeah tom is is sitting there thinking

[00:45:28] exactly what i'm thinking it's because you ride around in that posh tesla okay which is amazing

[00:45:36] right tom tom i'm tom is nodding his head up and down because he's uh he i'm totally on point

[00:45:43] you just become soft stosh when you you hopped into i mean you know a real macho vehicle like a jeep

[00:45:51] wrangler listen i have driven vans like toyota siennas and stuff like that they have way better

[00:45:58] suspension than yeah that damn was that that jeep was tough man yeah well it's i had cramps in that

[00:46:05] it's built for it it is i don't want to hear about all these these personal problems you didn't tell me

[00:46:10] are you gonna sue me now because you got cramps in my jeep what the hell man i thought we were i

[00:46:15] thought we were podcast buddies what's going on here it was it was it was definitely a different

[00:46:20] experience i will say that and mike was probably impressed he's like oh these guys have jeeps they

[00:46:25] know how to last through everything so i offered i offered uh iron mike a ride in my jeep this

[00:46:30] weekend and he he passed and now i know why i've got a bad reputation so i mean were you wearing

[00:46:40] north face at the time though did if you if he had a north face something on he probably would have been

[00:46:44] like yes uh no i'm not this weekend nothing north face no so after what i've heard uh a north faith

[00:46:52] north face athlete could face a five thousand dollar pound after cutting a switchback for the fastest

[00:46:59] known time so this is uh pretty crazy to hear on october 23rd 2024 was published by gear junkie

[00:47:08] highlighting a consequent that most outdoor recreators never faced while cutting switchbacks

[00:47:12] also showing how severely officials responsible for protecting national wildlife approaches now the

[00:47:19] story highlights how uh michelino sunsiri cut a switchback while setting the fastest known time for

[00:47:27] the grand teton in september and grand teton uh i gotta admit uh finishing the route and a wreck it's grand

[00:47:34] teton's 14 000 feet finishing the route in a record setting two hours 50 minutes and 50 seconds

[00:47:42] unbelievable uh i'm not familiar uh i'm not familiar with the approach that he went

[00:47:47] but uh if i'm familiar i'm kind of familiar with the area because i'm looking into going into there

[00:47:52] if he went from the uh i think it's a medicine lake area that is i i'm sorry to say that's

[00:48:01] fucking impressive two hours and 50 minutes 50 seconds two days later the record was removed to

[00:48:07] this and seri cutting through a switchback along the trail with a switchback known where the trail

[00:48:12] moves back and forth costs often used to reduce of the weight of what would otherwise be steek hiking

[00:48:17] now in addition losing his record loses switchback cutting he also may space a five thousand dollars

[00:48:23] find and as a court date in november uh i will post the gear report or the the report uh it's said that

[00:48:31] basically staying on trail is very important of course the the fastest known times and they are

[00:48:37] people are very familiar with switchbacks and they're commonly seen it is the route it's what you

[00:48:42] should take um doesn't matter if you're doing the fast known time when you do a fastest known time

[00:48:47] you need to stay on that route because it is the route you need to do and that is the route you need

[00:48:53] to break now it looks like this time tom if tad if you're going to be doing any fast and tone time you

[00:49:02] might as well not cut any any areas because you're going to be set with a five thousand dollar fine

[00:49:09] well yeah i you know i you should see my initial comment on this was what uh lance armstrong was uh

[00:49:17] forfeited when he was caught doping but what just occurred to me yeah right what just what just occurred

[00:49:24] to me was even i think more on point is a couple years ago when that actor pierce brosin was fined

[00:49:34] brosin was fined five hundred dollars in order to pay a thousand dollars to yellowstone forever

[00:49:40] after walking off the trail in yellowstone national park i think i think pierce is probably worth more

[00:49:49] money than michellino so i don't think michellino should have to pay a five thousand dollar fine

[00:49:57] unless really something egregious happened there so what what did what did lance armstrong have to pay

[00:50:02] well so was that his testicle removal and he's aerodynamic

[00:50:07] oh gosh stosh i mean i got on one channel folks i've got the dodgers fan and then i've got stosh

[00:50:15] talking about testicle removal on the other he was aerodynamic he had one that's the guy's less yeah

[00:50:21] yeah maybe maybe maybe no he he uh when he was uh sued uh on behalf of his u.s postal sponsorship

[00:50:30] he uh ended up settling that case for 6.65 million dollars jesus yeah but but look the guy at the time

[00:50:39] was worth tens of millions and he did lose a lot of endorsement money but i think for

[00:50:47] this michellino i think did have some level of sponsorship certainly not as much as lance armstrong's

[00:50:54] i don't know whether 5 000 is a little or too much in proportion but i also would like to point out

[00:51:02] if you're doing the fastest known time and you're cutting corners shame on you yeah right whether he

[00:51:09] pays a thousand dollars or ten thousand uh if this guy knowingly cut corners to get into the record books

[00:51:17] i think he should be banned yeah further fastest known times because we heard from chris leblanc a

[00:51:23] few weeks ago i mean here's a guy that was out there for you know nine days uh and you know he

[00:51:31] he wouldn't what was it um he almost slept in a porter john yeah and he he wouldn't sleep in other

[00:51:37] places because he felt it would be considered his aid so he supported supported so he wouldn't accept it so

[00:51:44] i think i think his ethics are remarkable and if somebody cuts a corner and still posts themselves

[00:51:53] is setting the fastest known time shame on them so i'm gonna i'm gonna ask stomp if i could use his

[00:51:58] shame thing because that's a shame that's definitely a shame what do you think tom what do you think

[00:52:04] i yeah yeah i mean rules are rules i mean if it's a fastest known time i mean technically the fastest point

[00:52:12] is point a to point b is a straight line but i mean there are rules in place to follow so

[00:52:19] i'm generally of that mind follow the rules do do what you have to do generally follows the rules

[00:52:25] unless what's you said generally what's the exception tom i'm just i'm sorry i'm sorry that's

[00:52:32] the inner yankee fan and i was gonna say is the inner yankee that came back off i don't know emergency

[00:52:40] situations where you gotta cut private property or yeah it's things of that nature then you're not

[00:52:47] doing the fastest no yeah i hear you're bailing so unbelievable unbelievable incidents so thank you

[00:52:55] guys for shooting the really appreciate it tom for withstanding that stuff of yankee crap that we have

[00:53:02] to listen to it's it's fun to do it oh yeah right we get talking about it yeah well we'll ask you that

[00:53:10] at the end of the show yeah right so thank you to the monthly supporters darren white vicky ferrera

[00:53:16] mike sawatosky jim c that's the a denise vanessa joseph jim c and michael love you guys thank you for

[00:53:23] supporting the show really appreciate it also capture your love story against breathtaking backdrop with

[00:53:28] outdoor chronicles photography molly specializes in adventure couple photography and she'll

[00:53:34] mortalize your moments amidst the stunning landscape of the catskills adirondacks and white mountains

[00:53:39] she'll craft timeless images that reflect unique bond in nature's grandeur embark on an unforgettable

[00:53:45] photographic journey with outdoor chronicles photography don't hesitate to get a hold of molly on

[00:53:50] all platforms she updates every day and she has amazing pictures so check out

[00:53:56] also discover the wilderness with trailbound project our expert-led hiking and backpacking

[00:54:02] education programs offer unparalleled outdoor experiences whether you're a beginner or seasoned

[00:54:07] adventurer join us through with the skills explore stunning trails and connect with nature

[00:54:11] start with your journey today with a trailbound project and unlock the wonders of the great outdoors

[00:54:16] they update daily as well on all uh social media websites and stuff they have a lot of stuff

[00:54:23] going on check them out also coffees and mention mention the podcast on one of your hikes through

[00:54:28] social media and we'll chat about it on the show i don't know why tom uh tagged us in his most recent

[00:54:35] thing because he knew he was going to be on here tom we're going to talk about recent tight come on

[00:54:40] what what are you thinking yeah it didn't go on at the time when i tagged you but yes you're going to talk about this

[00:54:47] this is a really good hike so so um so we'll go over that jan daniel uh jay scannell second he did the

[00:54:55] escarpment trail we talked about him last week doing the escarpment trail i saw him in my my friend

[00:54:59] hannaford uh daniel was in hannaford dan uh he did the escarpment trail south to north uh was a success

[00:55:06] catskill was 100 in postcard mode except for zero water at dutters knots we've been on a water uh hiatus for

[00:55:14] the past month or so which why is we're in a burn band of all new york state day two was uh including

[00:55:21] up the climb of black mountain was a real test of our testicular fortitude very good wording dan

[00:55:29] really appreciate it uh any thoughts about his wording of testicular fortitude i just want to know how

[00:55:37] erudite yeah he knew we were going to be talking about lance and you know jesus people have infiltrated

[00:55:44] our ranks wow so awesome job dan love the the photos and such like that glad you and josh uh two josh's

[00:55:54] had a good time my friends josh gorsh and josh had a great time so also scion 72 uh which is sean he was

[00:56:03] on a previous episode i think it was episode 68 was winter hiking uh enzo and i enjoyed sonja and

[00:56:09] savannah up for tremple mountain and the hunter mountain sonja uh finished creating the catskill

[00:56:15] fire towers in her quest to grid the adirondack fire towers as well this means every fire tower

[00:56:20] once every month of the year and that's definitely a lot of fire towers i gotta admit so congratulations

[00:56:27] sean and enzo who looks adorable as ever just want to get some smooches just sean send me uh any info on

[00:56:36] the dog to get some smooches tom does your dog give smooches all the time oh god damn i gotta come

[00:56:44] down i miss that all over it all right we gotta get a hike together i know that sounds weird it sounds

[00:56:50] very weird so no i'm down for that i mean it's tad's just like what the is this no you know what

[00:56:58] what i've been doing here is i've been cutting out this post-it note and i'm strategically placing

[00:57:03] it over thomas's uh like you know window here so i don't have to look any of the dodgers stuff on his

[00:57:09] jersey so i'm blocking i'm gonna be cutting this out i can edit this all out i'm editing all this i just

[00:57:15] see his head now you have so great i can actually write yankees on the post-it note thomas i hope you

[00:57:22] i hope you rated the show on any platform always so rate the show any platform i don't know if it

[00:57:28] does any good share the show whatever it does it does great wonders whatever i just i i just hope

[00:57:35] everybody's having a good time if you like to show rate the show share the show whatever anybody

[00:57:40] drinking anything besides me ted uh-huh no tom you're not drinking it no i'm so i yeah i've got

[00:57:48] a beer here so laganitas wheat ipa i'm gonna crack it now you ready ready go ahead it doesn't come up

[00:57:59] no damn must be that noise filter oh well so what is what uh wheat ipa so hopefully the maybe the sound

[00:58:08] of the beverage cracking open didn't come up but hopefully the flavor will i will i will check it

[00:58:13] out tom do you have anything uh just some seltzer with some lime juice and i'm not much of a drinker

[00:58:21] okay that's good i'm having a down east of course down east hard cider i think this is a blackberry

[00:58:28] once again it's tough to uh to see unfiltered whatever it's down east uh it says the cool thing

[00:58:36] is i'm trying to to read it we know it's upside down it's best to be drunk to be drinking upside

[00:58:42] down so you have it it's really good and then ted has something with the dog on there of course yeah

[00:58:47] nice looks like a pit bull beautiful pit bull i don't think it's a pit bull yeah this is smooth

[00:58:53] it's a wheat beverage so it's got kind of like a wide body to it the heads the head's not as frothy

[00:59:00] as one would expect more bubbly all right but it'll work i'll get through the end of the show

[00:59:06] hopefully when we get off the air the score will be eight to five yankees bottom of the fifth we'll

[00:59:15] see all right tom this is good this is just going to be you and me from now on if he keeps talking

[00:59:19] about baseball just mute him all right yeah baseball is done bully crowd here tonight folks but i'm

[00:59:27] i'm legging it out for my fans so he said like five minutes of our show come on all right so previous

[00:59:34] hikes who wants to go first i can i'll take it yeah we went up uh myself and three other people two of

[00:59:45] them needed uh north dome and cheryl from the cliff side from sprucedon and it was it was on the list

[00:59:55] for a long time for me because we went up uh shaft when i did my original climb of cheryl and north dome

[01:00:03] but i said we were going back and it worked out saturday we went up there we got it done and it was a

[01:00:10] great hike cliffs going up are no fun but coming down was definitely some awesome

[01:00:18] type two fun because like there's that thrill of like serious injury so you got to be careful you

[01:00:25] got to watch your step you got to have a respect for the fear but i mean it was a lot of fun great

[01:00:31] and so was that the first time you went up uh from the devil's path up north dome yep that's the first time

[01:00:38] i've gone gone that way i had heard about like when i did research for the first time around i was like

[01:00:45] nope we're not doing that with the dog because i just didn't have enough experience and uh so we went

[01:00:51] the other way and then saturday we actually went up up the cliffs and and it wasn't it wasn't terrible but

[01:00:59] it was not that much fun going up but it was it was good coming down it wasn't all that wet um it was

[01:01:10] interesting with the dog i mean she will bound up almost anything um but coming down i have to be a

[01:01:16] little more controlling over and not give her too much leaves because if she pulls she will she will

[01:01:23] pull me down or she will try to but but uh i have a pretty good trust with her so she knows excellent

[01:01:31] typical uh like beagle kind of pull and go the smell and stuff like that and the stubbornness of a basset

[01:01:41] yeah that's typical stuff do you have would you have you ever thought about one of those uh

[01:01:48] like harnesses that goes around your waist for her so you can have kind of more control i thought about

[01:01:54] that but there are certain times like where i'll talk about later um like where there have been

[01:02:00] times where like if she's going down and i know she could drop down safely i have a 10-foot leash

[01:02:06] but if i know there's not enough leash where she's going down i'll let go of the leash but if she's on

[01:02:12] a harness around my waist i i can't do that and then that could be a precarious situation for sure

[01:02:19] definitely definitely so before we move on i have this image your your dog has a collar on her

[01:02:26] no she has she has a harness and i'll talk about the harness later too but uh yeah she has a harness

[01:02:32] that yeah it doesn't pull around her neck it's it's more like around her chest and and it supports

[01:02:38] under her her stomach and kind of like near her back legs so yeah okay because i i would be concerned

[01:02:45] man letting my dog go down a cliff like we have in the cats with the leash on and a collar on her neck

[01:02:51] and then the leash gets hung up on something and your dog strangulates her yeah that was that was

[01:02:57] definitely one of the concerns and then why i got a harness yeah i'm glad um i hope there's not

[01:03:03] stupid dog owners out there like that that does that still like that's ridiculous harnesses are the

[01:03:08] way they go definitely absolutely so you know tom i can remember you posted uh

[01:03:13] uh you didn't go to the magic school bus did you what happened we we got up there and uh bill who uh

[01:03:22] uh he was one he's getting close to finishing his 3500 he needs like he needs the winners and like two others

[01:03:29] but uh he's like i i heard about the bus i really want to find it and so i helped them look the ladies

[01:03:37] that we had with us they stayed on the herd path and i helped them look for a while and like it got to

[01:03:42] the point where it was going to start to almost drop back down and i just didn't want to do that

[01:03:47] because we had to go back down cheryl and then back up north dome and then and then back down so

[01:03:52] like there was a point where but he he he kept going and he ended up finding it cool and took pictures

[01:03:59] for all of us so yeah but now i know like almost exactly where it is so the next time i'm up there i will

[01:04:06] definitely go check it out a cool place i got a bit it's a really cool place and it's it's worth it

[01:04:12] uh so cool man north dome and cheryl it's it's definitely uh you're going from

[01:04:18] from shaft road all the way over is definitely a hall i gotta admit it's definitely fun i gotta admit

[01:04:25] and you know how dominant is the herd paths now um some spots they were um not too apparent like from

[01:04:34] from the devil's path to like where you start to climb it wasn't very apparent but i mean it's easy

[01:04:40] you're just you're just walking towards the mountain so you're just generally going in that direction and

[01:04:45] you know it's going to be steep so there really is no right way to go there but then like once you get

[01:04:51] up towards the top a little bit to pass they're pretty pretty evident so why did you why'd you do it

[01:04:58] as an out and back versus a through hike um that's just because that's just how it ended up to be

[01:05:04] it was uh i was supposed to just like originally it was just going to be me and uh bill and laurie and then

[01:05:10] we picked up another person because i've been every time i post i'm like if anybody wants to go just reach

[01:05:16] out and we'll we'll make something happen so the one girl who i've i followed for a long time and

[01:05:21] she's like yeah i've been i've been letting the bush wax languish for years so she came along and she

[01:05:27] asked if we were doing an out and back or a point to point and it just was at that point it was just

[01:05:33] decided that it was going to be an out and back okay yeah i mean it would be it's a it's a great

[01:05:40] through hike going over through the devil's path down of course the the areas you said that was some good

[01:05:46] uh type two fight fun going over north dome right it was because uh just the route finding going down

[01:05:54] those cliffs like there are certain times where you like get to a spot and it's like there is

[01:05:58] no way down in front of you so you have to find the route and sometimes it's just like a

[01:06:03] a small gap in the rocks i mean you guys like so you've seen stuff like that but it's it was definitely

[01:06:09] fun and then you got to make sure it's not too steep and there's just a spot for the dog where she can

[01:06:15] kind of like find her way down and it's it's just it was a lot of fun nice that's a great area yeah

[01:06:24] yeah i like that like it's uh it's definitely one of those areas that once again type two type fund

[01:06:29] of where you like are just like damn this is it's real like this is this is awesome definitely

[01:06:36] different part of the catskills tad what about you what did you do very recently oh so um uh i'm on

[01:06:44] mike kudish's list now uh when he needs hiking buddies so i went out with him and two other people

[01:06:51] on sunday it was a beautiful day mike was searching to explore the extent of the first growth forest on

[01:07:01] top of bear pen mountain so uh on top yeah on top of bear pen mountain and yeah when he first put

[01:07:10] this in his post this is what he was doing i was saying to myself well gee where on bear pen mountain

[01:07:16] could there be first growth forest and it turns out that the first growth forest on bear pen mountain

[01:07:26] is to your left to your right and in front of you when you walk on that herd path

[01:07:34] is to your left to your right and you know where it's going to be a little bit of a mountain

[01:07:35] that goes from the snowmobile trail on the east side to where it meets yeah i'm stash is like i don't

[01:07:43] worry whoa yeah i mean we all know where it is because we've all walked that hearth herd path

[01:07:47] and most people ho-hum you know think that's a boring hike i've always thought that was an interesting

[01:07:52] area and uh it was surprising to hear that mike kudish who has been through that area obviously several times

[01:08:02] but not necessarily looking for first growth when he went through there it occurred to him

[01:08:07] uh back in september then he was hiking through there with mo when they were out searching for some

[01:08:12] deep peat uh that this was actually an area of first growth so we wanted to go back which we did

[01:08:17] on sunday to pin out the boundaries or he calls them the entry points of where the first growth area

[01:08:25] is so what is first growth tom do you know uh forest that hasn't been logged as far as i'm aware we have

[01:08:35] a winner hand out the prize stash yep that's it first growth forest is also known as virgin forest

[01:08:41] and it's an area of the forest which has never been logged so and that's of of course of interest to

[01:08:50] kudish so previously on the official map of first growth areas in the catskills it was believed that

[01:08:58] there was 27 acres of first growth forest on bear pen and so in his email to the group today uh mike

[01:09:07] kudish who then after we pinned out the area he goes home and he uh calculates the extent of the first

[01:09:15] growth and so he wrote us today to say that we now have six points giving us a much more accurate

[01:09:20] picture of the extent of the original forest i now have 144 117 acres as opposed to his earlier

[01:09:29] calculation of 27 acres yeah that's he um he said four times yeah he says there's little to no uh

[01:09:38] old growth in the area um which is after the logging you know decades or centuries ago so he says the uh

[01:09:46] the wood up there is all scrubby partly explaining why they were left intact and never logged out

[01:09:52] uh and then he writes in his post to us today that what's unusual about this area is that a logging road

[01:09:59] goes through the first growth area and it seems that nothing was taken out of there except trees to build

[01:10:05] the road there are a few other places in the catskills kudish writes where this has happened but not in the 19th century

[01:10:13] wow so stash why is it and you know the answer why is it there is a logging well kudish calls it a

[01:10:23] logging road that goes through this area of first growth of course they were just looking for the

[01:10:29] ski area they were looking for the downhill elevation loss to go it was the access road yeah it was materials

[01:10:36] up there they they also there's a call of blair and by fly so they were easiest access yeah so i sent i

[01:10:43] sent uh mike today the uh literature the history that's available on the internet uh because i talked

[01:10:51] to him about that when we were out in the field and so i sent him the backup on that that so he can

[01:10:57] consider whether or not that this is actually a logging road or part of the road network that was used

[01:11:02] in connection with the princeton ski bowl which to those of you who don't know bear pen mountain once

[01:11:09] had a ski area on its northern slope and then further to the west there was another ski area tom you know

[01:11:17] what the name of that other ski area was i don't it was called the no name ski area yeah because it had

[01:11:25] no name all right yes so um and then i'll just add in that what was the hardest part of my four mile

[01:11:36] seven or eight hour excursion with mike kudish anyone know what the hardest part of it was

[01:11:44] and it wasn't it wasn't almost hitting a deer on 23a on my way over it wasn't waiting for

[01:11:51] coffee at mabe's place on the way over what was the hardest part not not taking a crap in the forest

[01:11:59] no that wasn't the hardest part tom tom tom you want to take a stab at it i don't know the

[01:12:06] the whole hum trick back out no so the hardest part was i knew what was going to be cold that

[01:12:12] time windy and so when you're no offense to mike but when you're hiking with mike you're going slow

[01:12:18] in super slow yeah in part because he's 81 and the other part is because he is he has like this

[01:12:25] capacity to analyze everything in his field of view whether it's like a little piece of moss a fern

[01:12:34] a tree stump which to most of us we walk by he's fascinated by tree stumps because they reflect how

[01:12:40] long ago the logging activity occurred or if that's tree stump is the product of logging or something

[01:12:46] else so he he's very slow going through the mountains because i knew how cold it was going to be and

[01:12:52] windy on sunday i really had a factor in that because i would be going so slow i wouldn't be generating a

[01:12:59] lot of like body heat from you know hustling through the woods so i had it i had a dress like it was like

[01:13:06] five degrees out yeah in anticipation of that pace so it worked for me but it was it was a lot of fun

[01:13:13] hanging out on sunday with dr kudish and helping him at the age of 81 map out that's amazing first

[01:13:23] growth yeah i mean you know and when i was up there and we were doing what we were doing and it's amazing

[01:13:27] to see this guy at this age go through the forest and i'm saying to myself i can probably name a bunch

[01:13:33] of people i know who are you know in their 30s and their 40s in their 50s that could not do what this

[01:13:41] guy's doing at age 80. oh yeah right so hats off to mike kudish he's living the dream yeah yeah

[01:13:51] so while you were over on bear pen i was waving hi to you over up on bel-air mountain i went up

[01:13:57] cathedral glenn beautiful trail beautiful trail uh till you hit the ski slopes area you know i thought i

[01:14:06] thought cathedral glenn was very fascinating uh once again it has that cathedral feeling with the pines and

[01:14:14] and stuff like that where you're going up through amazing tall forest and then we hit the uh the

[01:14:19] ski slopes trail of bel-air and it shows us that the trail markers go off to the right and i'm like wait a

[01:14:28] minute i'm pretty sure on the the the new york new jersey trail conference it goes to the left and it goes up

[01:14:34] the ski slopes and i you know second guess myself i'm looking at at the maps i'm looking at the thing

[01:14:40] i'm like ah the hell is this like why is it marked over to the right and this like i'm i'm i'm second

[01:14:47] guessing myself because i'm like did i get the newest trail conference maps i did i actually did on my

[01:14:53] phone it's uh 2023 so i'm like okay so i'm like john let's go over and follow my friend john came with me

[01:15:00] let's go over let's follow the the trail or the the blue markers we'll go over the blue markers

[01:15:06] it led to a switchback of another part of the the i think it was the is it the keith cathedral brook

[01:15:15] ski slope correct yep correct okay so it's a cathedral brook so why not just go straight up the freaking

[01:15:22] the the old ski slope but it offers over there so i was just like i got it this is part of the all

[01:15:28] trails challenge gotta freaking do this but it's not part of the all trails challenge screw this i'm

[01:15:33] bushwhacking through part of this cutting off this i don't even know it's probably like 0.2 miles

[01:15:39] and we bushwhacked up through there we started on the uh ski slope going up the cathedral brook

[01:15:45] area and it had all these awesome new snow making machines that are the size of my arm which i'm like

[01:15:51] are you kidding me like they used to have turbines the size of 747s making snow and now they're the

[01:15:57] size of my arm on these these ski slopes and uh it was nice uh we hit kind of that area where you have

[01:16:07] to go off of the ski you got to go up started going up the the awesome area where in the winter

[01:16:13] in the summer it has burns the size of like giants over town you you don't know where to go but of

[01:16:20] course this time it was matted down we could see we went up there it gets steep as heck it's awesome

[01:16:25] it's perfect ski slope area bumps all over the place dirt stuff like that with snow it's probably

[01:16:32] absolutely phenomenal but with this we were like slipping and falling uh went up through there you

[01:16:38] get up off of the the on the ski slopes and then you have a turn to your left that turns into a 0.2 mile

[01:16:45] going to the red trail of the bellair ridge now ted i i'm pretty sure you recently were here

[01:16:54] can i say what the fuck is that like it's like it's like they threw a bunch of blue markers on

[01:17:01] the trail and was said it's like good luck have fun uh when you're heading east when you're heading east

[01:17:07] yep along the ridge yeah so you're going to the ridge you're meeting up from the blue trail to the

[01:17:12] ridge which is the red trail going up at the top okay so you're yeah so you're you're coming up through

[01:17:17] the ski area but not on the ski run yeah look i so i thought that area was somewhat interesting but

[01:17:24] when i did it i think it was in august when i did it so i did it in the height of nettle season oh nice

[01:17:31] yeah and so i i you know aside from noticing the trees and the forestry around me there was you know

[01:17:38] a lot of nettles in there but then once you get up to the ridge and you bang that left and go east

[01:17:43] towards the mountain known as bel air um just past go past just past that clearing on that mountain

[01:17:53] right there used i understand there used to be a fire tower there yep that's we hit that and then

[01:17:59] we went back over to the ski slope area where the lodge was okay so did you turned around at the

[01:18:05] clearing you didn't head down towards um lost cove or further over towards balsam no itself okay

[01:18:13] if you had that's where that miles upon miles of first growth forest starts on that dress yeah so

[01:18:23] and i remember that day that i hiked through there it really just absorbed me when i walked into that

[01:18:31] area because it was just so much more quieter and had this sense of stillness because of the the ground

[01:18:38] was denser from all the you know the decay from the trees not being logged out of there hauled out of

[01:18:45] there they would just naturally you know die fall over decay in place which just builds up the terrain

[01:18:53] makes it lumpier and denser than the areas that have been logged out so but that section though from the

[01:19:00] ski slope to the the ridge was like like it was seriously like i was just like they threw a bunch

[01:19:06] of markers on the trail or on trees and it's just like have fun yeah i think they just wanted to get

[01:19:12] people off the ski slope that's what i thought okay and that ski slope leads right up to the why

[01:19:17] didn't they just leave it going right up to the uh what's it called the lean-to yeah i i just found you

[01:19:22] right okay i'm not the only one yeah maybe they thought that people that come up here want to hike

[01:19:27] on a trail and not a ski run because it's not when you say it's a ski slope i mean it's you know got to

[01:19:32] give the impression in people's minds that this is not a a narrow like bulldozer wide ski slope that

[01:19:40] you're on on a cathedral brook the ski run it's several bulldozer wide yeah it's like like three or four

[01:19:49] yeah yeah it's massive so there's there's no sense of really being within the forest when you go up it

[01:19:57] you've got a lot of to your left to your right yeah tom once you go up there it's gonna be nice that

[01:20:03] little ridge walk going up to bel air uh you get those views when you're at the top of bel air and

[01:20:09] stuff like that and then you see how much money they put in the bel air and how much money they haven't

[01:20:14] put into the trail signs that we have here in the catskills so yeah but everybody who skis

[01:20:19] bel air you know has to buy that lift ticket and we get to hike for free that's that i mean that's

[01:20:24] that's the one thing i was saying with my buddy john i'm like we get to hike for free they get to pay

[01:20:29] i understand i do understand but how much does a trail sign cost uh i don't know but if the trade-off

[01:20:36] is we get to hike for free and we have crappy trail signs i don't know which tom which would you prefer

[01:20:42] would you rather have to pay uh 150 dollars a season to hike in the catskills being mindful

[01:20:49] about it i think at hunter mountain it's like 120 to 150 dollars a day to ski there so would you rather

[01:20:56] would you rather yeah so would you rather well because you're making snow and giving you a ride

[01:21:01] to the top but so would you rather pay 100 150 bucks a season to hike in the cats or would you and have

[01:21:08] really really really nice signs everywhere and trail markers or do it for free and have crappy beat up

[01:21:14] falling apart rustic signs no i'd honestly i'd rather do it for free uh just because

[01:21:22] it's free it's free just say it because it's free yeah and as long as you know how to navigate a little

[01:21:27] bit i mean you'll be all right yeah i had a great time though i i had a great time navigating and stuff

[01:21:33] like that and making like decisions i was like uh you know i don't want to do this this is not part of

[01:21:39] the ultra sound i did get part of that the the whole cathedral growing up there and i was going

[01:21:44] to take the pine the pine uh west uh the pine hill west branch down but unfortunately my friend john

[01:21:51] wasn't really up to it so i was just like i'll go back up there i don't mind yeah that's that's a

[01:21:56] nice area i enjoyed that hike that day i can't wait to do it yeah it got a little warm but i definitely

[01:22:03] got into the zone and then that clearing on that bel air mountain you know that bedrock weird area at

[01:22:10] the top is pretty interesting yeah i gotta somebody somebody's got a little campsite they set up over

[01:22:15] there to i guess what would be the south side of that as you hike through there's all these stools

[01:22:22] there's all these um log stools oh yeah and then there's that fire pit and yeah they've got like

[01:22:29] their little hideout to the south as you go through good call so awesome previous hikes everybody's had

[01:22:36] some good previous hikes not nobody skipped out on this yeah tom's not a slacker no no every weekend

[01:22:43] i'm somewhere sweet man i'm jealous so catskill news volunteer 3500 club catskill trail crew catskill

[01:22:51] mountains club visitor center jolly rovers trail crew barely mountain fire tower uh anybody is uh volunteering

[01:22:58] you just get out there and volunteer whatever it'll help it out to catskill trail crew we're

[01:23:03] gonna have matt on soon in a couple weeks for his uh sawyer he got a sword certificate so we're gonna

[01:23:09] check that out uh also if you need stickers let me know i gotta give more stickers to uh the camp

[01:23:16] catskill area so we got to get that going uh what about the weather so what's the weather gonna be like

[01:23:23] this weekend guys you check that out humid it's gonna be hot and humid thunderstorms uh chance of

[01:23:29] tornado yes i mean it sounds like that's what it's gonna be yeah i mean so friday is gonna be uh a low

[01:23:37] of 36 at night but a high of 50 during the day so uh a definite low of maybe 16 at night so if you're at

[01:23:45] night bundle up uh gonna be clear skies a little bit of rain showers in the morning nothing too crazy

[01:23:50] nothing too insane uh saturday it's gonna be absolutely clear a high of 41 a low of 21

[01:23:59] with windchill so that's going to be nice perfect layers layers layers uh sunday looks like it's

[01:24:05] going to be cloudy with a little bit light rain in the pm a high of 46 a low of 32 so it looks to be an

[01:24:12] absolute stunning weekend kind of without some clear skies it doesn't matter it looks good

[01:24:17] uh it looks like cloud elevation i want to note this because of course you know most of us me i want

[01:24:24] views cloud elevation the lowest it's going to be is around 6400 so we are good so damn good all right

[01:24:33] so so my question before we move on tom micro spikes this weekend cats it's it's funny uh because i i had

[01:24:43] read that there was some snow in the catsfields so just as kind of for shits and giggles i threw the

[01:24:51] exo spikes in for north dome and cheryl didn't need them but they uh lived in the bottom of my backpack

[01:24:58] my man threw them in there too as well i did yeah you don't know not here didn't know

[01:25:07] absolutely outrageous yeah i figured out if you're with mike kudish nothing's gonna go wrong this guy's

[01:25:12] been doing it 81 years it's true it's mr wucky and the true so yeah i don't know throw them in

[01:25:19] throw them out yeah you prepare for the winter just throw them in there i don't care prepare for the

[01:25:25] winter so all right so let's get on to the last set of sponsors and then we'll get on to thomas's

[01:25:31] spotlight all right so discover camp catskill and tannersville your ultimate hiking store find top

[01:25:38] quality gear apparel and accessories for all your outdoor adventures our expert staff is here help

[01:25:44] every hiker from beginner to seasoned pros we also carry a variety of unique catskill souvenirs and

[01:25:50] gifts visit us online at campcatskill.co or in the store to gear up for your next journey adventure

[01:25:57] starts at camp catskill also discover the beauty of the catskills adirondacks and hudson valley with

[01:26:03] scenic route guiding our expert guides and ensuring safe unforgettable hiking experience tailored to

[01:26:09] your skill level from breathtaking vistas to hidden gem or if you're peak bagging to just simple day

[01:26:14] hikes we'll lead you to the best spots and back book your adventure today and exploit nature one doors with

[01:26:20] outdoor with scenic route guiding check them out on all social media platforms also if you mention the

[01:26:26] podcast you can get 10 off use the amazing code mountain lion also embark on a transformative journey

[01:26:35] with another summit another summit is dedicated to serving veterans and first responders with free outdoor

[01:26:41] activities activities like walks in nature paddling hiking and even backpacking join our supportive

[01:26:47] community to rejuvenate nature's embrace experience commodity adventure and healing at no cost take your

[01:26:54] next step with another summit and ascend to new heights of resilience and joy apply today on

[01:27:00] another summit dot org so well that wraps up the show folks uh thanks for tuning in stosh had to check

[01:27:07] out early go to the hockey game tad tad took over and yeah yeah wrapped it up in three minutes now it's now

[01:27:15] uh tom and tad's catskill tails that was the lamest tails i've ever heard all right

[01:27:24] 10 we have 10 viewers or listeners so we're ahead of you but yeah true uh let's get on to the guest of the night

[01:27:32] let's go

[01:27:34] so tom who's who's outdoors uh on instagram is joining us tonight and he's going to talk about his uh

[01:27:41] times in the catskills times in the delaware uh water gap area new jersey stuff like that he's been all

[01:27:47] over the place tom you've been everywhere i have uh delaware yes well everywhere in the in the area uh but

[01:27:57] delaware water gap will forever be my favorite spot but since i've started hiking the catskills they've

[01:28:04] been like i they've i've fallen in love with them essentially and they're just like they're great i split

[01:28:10] my time between the two now that's awesome so why don't you give a little brief summary about your

[01:28:16] background for us uh briefly uh non-hiking background or just just go all out what yeah whatever whatever

[01:28:26] is good for public consumption comfortable for you all right i mean i grew up in the area i i uh when i was

[01:28:34] a kid i grew up in pennsylvania and then i moved to jersey my uncle was the one who like pretty much

[01:28:40] introduced me to hiking like way way when i was a young kid and then intermittently we would we would

[01:28:48] hike with my grandmother and stuff and then uh and it just kind of grew from there but then i ended up

[01:28:55] really getting into hiking i don't know like three years ago when my last job like the last three years

[01:29:03] of that job was just awful so i i started hiking to escape that job and then eventually i left that

[01:29:10] job of eight years for my job now which gave me nights and weekends more paid time off holidays

[01:29:18] so i and i once i got the dog i knew i had to like to give her what she deserves i had to do something

[01:29:25] other than work six days a week with no like set schedule so it was it was just a time for a change so

[01:29:32] then we uh went up to sam's point so the rolling catskills and i was like yep that's where i had to

[01:29:38] i had to get into those mountains and that's kind of where it started i hear you i hear you buddy i

[01:29:47] you know i i had similar experience of going down through the catskills and i saw them going over from

[01:29:53] andy so i saw them for the northern point northeastern point and i was just like that's the i gotta get there

[01:29:59] i gotta get there that's like you don't get like if you're in the del like i said i love the del water

[01:30:04] gap like if you go up to like pamany or raymond skill or any of those areas where you can see views

[01:30:12] you don't like get the rolling mountains that you can see like when you're looking at the catskills and

[01:30:18] that's what drew me like the the prominence of some of the mountains and it's just it was like mind-blowing

[01:30:24] at the time it still is now but it was just i just knew that's like that was going to be my next stop

[01:30:30] in like my hiking chapter so you started off at sam's point how did you kind of uh i i don't know i just

[01:30:39] i feel like i just started researching like and kind of like branching out places where

[01:30:45] i could go and and sam's point at the time seemed like an easy an easier walk um with a quick view

[01:30:53] and then i don't know that ecosystem that that pine forest or whatever it is up on top there that's

[01:31:00] really unique and then the waterfall at the end i can never say that waterfall i can never pronounce it

[01:31:06] right but it's the waterfall at the end of that and then you go a little past it and then you get to

[01:31:10] that viewpoint and that's where i ended up seeing the catskills really for the first time and so

[01:31:17] sam's point is is like it's pretty i'm pretty sure was the was the uh the critical point did you like go

[01:31:26] straight from sam's point to the catskills or did you start exploring around there um it was pretty much

[01:31:33] sam's point and then probably like two or three weeks later i was at uh we were like

[01:31:40] i've read somewhere like giant ledge is a good good like jumping off point and so we did that and

[01:31:46] that wasn't that wasn't bad and so we were like we're gonna go further and so we went up to panther

[01:31:54] and i it's funny i can remember walking down from giant ledge and like into the call before you go

[01:32:01] a panther and thinking oh my god this is this is crazy and now it's and and now it's like and it's

[01:32:08] like fairly tame but it's just i don't know it's funny to get perspective like that and to look back

[01:32:15] on the experience you didn't have compared to the experience you gain and what you learn

[01:32:21] and along the way it's been it's been a fun journey it's been fun having the dog dog was a big part of

[01:32:29] it now yeah i mean a lot of people underestimate going to the giant ledge i gotta admit it's it's

[01:32:36] it's like 1200 feet again and then you only have 600 feet the panther so it is tough it's a tough climb

[01:32:43] up it's yeah it definitely is but i mean it's it's the first time i could remember huff and puffin

[01:32:50] but uh it's it's it seems not not so bad now yeah so your your primary hiking started off in the delaware

[01:33:01] water gap area yep all over the delaware water gap and i mean loosely i've done a lot of the appalachian

[01:33:09] trail in new jersey um some which runs through the water gap some that doesn't uh i'm not crazy about

[01:33:17] the appalachian trail though like a like especially the pennsylvania side it's rock sylvania for a reason

[01:33:24] it's just not it's not there's some beautiful spots on the pennsylvania side of the water gap but

[01:33:30] it's just like there's so many rocks so why don't you compare and contrast the uh delaware water gap

[01:33:38] area and its appeal to hikers versus the catskills how is it different how is it comparable to the cats

[01:33:47] what's the attraction down there other than location the obvious part of the water gap is

[01:33:54] the actual water gap you got mount tammany and mount minsey and both sides of uh minsey's the

[01:34:02] pennsylvania side tammany is the new jersey side and you can look down at the delaware river and and see

[01:34:09] it wind through the valley and which is that you don't you can in the catskills you can see the ashokin

[01:34:15] and you can see the other reservoirs and the bodies of water but and occasionally the hudson

[01:34:19] but you don't get like the winding of the delaware especially in the water gap or like the wall pack bend

[01:34:27] which is like an basically an s in the river and one of the few spots in the delaware where the water runs

[01:34:35] south to north for a brief time which is a little bit uncommon um but the delaware river is the

[01:34:45] is the appeal there and the views what are the rocks like the the surface that we're hiking on down

[01:34:53] there like compared to the catskills um fairly like if you go up tammany um it's it's fairly similar they're not

[01:35:04] they're not as bouldery if that's a word as the council but they're they're they're flat and i mean there are some

[01:35:13] some steep spots where you got kind of have to scramble a little bit but it's not

[01:35:18] most most of it's not quite as as hardcore as the chat skills the elevation like the highest

[01:35:26] highest point in new jersey and the whole state is high point which is like 18 1800 feet and change so i

[01:35:34] mean that's like that's like child's play compared to like slide it at 4200 or like some of the other ones

[01:35:41] that reach for that close to 4000 the catskills so i mean it's you start lower but i mean it's still

[01:35:49] it's still not a ton of elevation and is is the forest throughout the water gap area at least at the

[01:35:55] higher elevations is it similar to uh sam's point a pitch pine and laurel uh rhododendron it doesn't

[01:36:04] it doesn't get high enough to really change too much a little bit in certain areas the raymond's

[01:36:12] field area which is like probably my favorite area of all time whether you go down in the falls or you

[01:36:17] go up to the cliffs like there's a little bit of like pine change there but it's just not quite high

[01:36:25] enough to have a dramatic effect like in the in the cat seals you get to like 3200 feet and you're

[01:36:31] you're in another like christmas wonderland yeah now i've heard a lot of people use mount tammany

[01:36:40] as kind of like a a training area to go like up and down up and down up down that that more of new

[01:36:47] jersey people use instead of traveling all the way up to the catskills because it's it's got a nice

[01:36:52] elevation profile right it does that that red trail going up is i don't know what the exact

[01:36:59] number is but it's it's a lot and it's considering what it is and it's it's easy you go up the red

[01:37:07] and then down the blue trail and you can just people continuously run that loop and uh and i guess

[01:37:14] it would be a good way to train for sure okay i've heard i've heard i've seen pictures and it looks

[01:37:21] absolutely phenomenal just like you said the winding river of course it's a delaware river it's it's

[01:37:27] massive it's huge it almost looks like i would say something you'd see down more of south area of

[01:37:34] virginia and stuff like that where these just winding rivers just go through these huge mountains

[01:37:39] and stuff like that it's fantastic and then and then floating through it is is just another thing too

[01:37:44] being between the two mountains it's just amazing i've done like every every i've done the entire

[01:37:51] stretch like in bits and pieces all the way from like from barryville new york all the way down to

[01:37:57] portland pennsylvania i floated i did the whole stretch this summer i've done it before too but this

[01:38:02] was the first summer that i've done the whole stretch throughout the summer in bits and pieces

[01:38:08] and it's just it's a phenomenal no matter which stretch you do it's just it's beautiful there's not

[01:38:14] there's never been a trip where i've not seen at least a couple dozen evils most of the time oh wow

[01:38:21] i saw the largest bear i've ever seen in my life this year above bushkill um

[01:38:28] a couple years ago i saw bobcat no mountain lion oh it's just an asset

[01:38:34] not yet not yet go in the winter they'll be out yeah maybe so do you do you hike elsewhere in the

[01:38:43] new jersey um not i've done a little bit i did a little um uh down kind of towards hackett's town uh

[01:38:55] there's uh hackle barney's down there and a couple other spots but mostly it's unless it's something i want

[01:39:03] to really go see like i know there's a tripod rock that i that i've been meaning to get to that's only

[01:39:11] like 44 minutes away but i don't know i try to avoid crowds if i can help it and uh like tammany

[01:39:20] isn't as much as i love it it's like it's a nightmare even during the week like it's it fills up

[01:39:26] so fast because you google pipes in new jersey and tammany is the one

[01:39:31] that comes up like on the top of every list that's that's worth its weight now have you ever been to

[01:39:38] like the ramapo area and stuff like that of new jersey are you close to that area um i've i've heard

[01:39:44] of it um i can't say without naming specific locations that i've been there um but it's it's

[01:39:53] well within reason i mean to travel two and a half hours to the chadskills i mean that's to go to ramapo

[01:40:00] is not not that far it's it's a fantastic area if you go off trail so if you're familiar you're

[01:40:07] you're familiar with off trail so definitely go off trail in that area and you'll find some amazing spots

[01:40:12] especially overlooking new york city you can see some good spots maybe i'll send you a i'll send you a

[01:40:16] spot that i know of okay so yeah nice get there yes so speaking of getting there tom uh how long

[01:40:27] does it take you to get to the delaware water gap area versus the catskills your typical hike and the

[01:40:32] catskills say slide mountain panther mountain area i'm kind of like right in the middle so if i go to

[01:40:41] like the north end of the water gap which is like which is raymond's guild engman's falls that area it's

[01:40:48] like 35 minutes or if i go down to the actual water gap by tammany or minsey or um can't think of the

[01:40:59] name of the creek there are dunfield creek that's like 45 minutes and right off of route 80 so it's

[01:41:06] it's still not too bad yeah to get out of the catskills i can get to

[01:41:13] he can moose valley in like an hour and 45 but if i go up to winham it's like a like two hours and

[01:41:23] 45 yeah that's a big difference it's a big swing so it's it's anytime i can get up to the catskills

[01:41:31] under two hours i'll take it uh and i have been spending a fair amount of time lately around the

[01:41:39] peak and moose valley so it's been it's been good but i mean i will travel if if i want to like i

[01:41:45] do want to get back to winham i want to get back to some of the uh the catskills further up so i'll

[01:41:52] travel that's not a big deal speaking of time in the car and traveling you have any ambition

[01:41:58] coming up to the whites the adirondacks places further up north um the whites haven't really

[01:42:05] crossed my mind too much the adirondacks i would i would like to do some of them uh i was on jade

[01:42:14] mountain in the adirondacks for the eclipse which was an amazing experience but that was still like

[01:42:21] four and a half hours one way and i just i it's such a hard thing to like for me to stomach like

[01:42:30] i got used to the driving up to the catskills in like two hours two and a half hours that's fine

[01:42:35] but like the adirondacks it's like two trips up to the catskills one way and i'm afraid like if i get

[01:42:43] up there because we were talking about uh iroquois algonquin and right and like i feel like if i do that

[01:42:49] hike i'm going to fall in love and then i'm not going to be able to get get there near as much as

[01:42:54] i want to or as fast as i want to and it's just going to drive me crazy yeah well i i had those

[01:43:00] i had that sentiment uh about this time last year i hiked the whites with my daughter she was finishing

[01:43:05] up her 48 up there and that was what i was thinking about leading up to that driving up there

[01:43:12] and it certainly is uh a phenomenal place to hike stash i'll agree with that but

[01:43:18] a special warmth and uniqueness to the forestry and the geology of the catskills that keeps pulling me

[01:43:27] back and the above tree the above tree line is really appealing to me i saw that on jay

[01:43:35] and i would really like to experience that for a prolonged period of time walking along some of

[01:43:40] those riches so it's definitely iroquois algonquin and right is going to happen probably probably next

[01:43:49] year i'm not going to try to tackle the adirondacks any of the adirondacks in the winter yet but uh

[01:43:56] definitely i do do want to get there though it's it's it's tough the driving is tough you know going up

[01:44:03] with the whites and the adirondacks i've i've been there and it's just like god sacrificing four to six

[01:44:09] hours of driving and then figuring out a place to stay you know do you want to do you want to drive

[01:44:14] back when you finish the hike the through hike or something like that do you want to spend four to six

[01:44:20] hours and maybe fall asleep at the wheel and die like and plus my car is my car is old it's an 07 curl

[01:44:27] it's only got 130 000 miles on it but i feel like if i broke down in the cat skills i could probably call

[01:44:34] my dad he'd be pissed but he would come and get me yeah i mean the 07 corolla wow those toyotas

[01:44:41] kill it it's it's besides like the cosmetic issues that it has like it's it's a great car it hasn't

[01:44:48] failed me yet i keep going with it you know my wife jessica had a 06 kia optima that she just replaced

[01:44:56] so it was it was giving her some some crazy uh cosmetic issues along with freaking just

[01:45:05] shit breaking all the time so we had to replace it so now you've hiked in the cats goes are you a 35er

[01:45:12] yet what do you do you have anything left uh no i am a 3500 i'm and i'm currently like i wasn't sure

[01:45:19] what i was going to start to chase after i kind of briefly considered like the next highest hundred whether

[01:45:24] public property or the ones with private property but i've since decided recently i'm chasing them

[01:45:32] again as as social hikes with people i've done uh i i don't know 15 or 16 now with social hikes so i

[01:45:41] still have a way to go but it's been it's been fun because my original go around of the 3500s i'll say

[01:45:50] like three and a half hikes um all but three and a half hikes were were just solo me and the dog

[01:45:58] so like my bushwhacks for the first time were all solo and when i say three and a half like

[01:46:04] one of the things i i learned along the way is like you can't just take people into the cat skills

[01:46:10] because i i asked my dad if he wanted to go hiking he's like yeah i'll go i haven't hiked in years

[01:46:15] so we went to to balsam lake figuring it was a short one and we got like i don't know on the ramp up and

[01:46:23] he's like i can't i can't go anymore i can't do anymore so i'm like i'll give you the keys like

[01:46:28] usually if it wasn't so far like we wouldn't split up i wouldn't leave anybody behind but like he

[01:46:33] understood that like if we got there i had to go up and get the tower and uh and get the summit

[01:46:40] your dad what about the dog who's the dog the dog i mean the dog the dog just goes

[01:46:47] famous dog is she what's her name she just sadie say yep she's a yep she's a beagle basset um i've had

[01:46:56] her for three three years now she came up from louisiana as a rescue um out of what is like the

[01:47:07] saddest thing known to man as a as a dog dump where people who can't take care of the dogs they

[01:47:12] just they drop them in a location and that's that's it they're just left to fend for themselves and

[01:47:18] there's wow it's it's always warm down there so there's always a threat of heartworm there's

[01:47:23] all these other diseases that are around year round because the mosquitoes don't die off down there

[01:47:29] that's like that's another thing i got her through was was her we got her home and like they tested

[01:47:35] her before and she came back negative but at some point along the way she got bit by a mosquito

[01:47:41] picked up heartworm we came back i forget what hike it was it wasn't in the catskills yet but it

[01:47:48] was one of them where she came back kind of lame so that that tested her to see maybe it was limes

[01:47:54] um and it wasn't limes but he's like it came back positive for heartworm and uh i don't know if you

[01:48:00] know anything about heartworm but if they get it worms get in the heart and if it's bad i mean it can

[01:48:10] be fatal but to treat it they get two sets of shots um and in between each one they have to be

[01:48:19] great rested for 30 days so it's a total of 60 days and some vets even recommend more time because

[01:48:26] those shots kill the worms but they stay in the heart and if the heart rate elevates uh the worms

[01:48:33] break up and then they can go into the blood vessels they can go into the lung they can go in the brain

[01:48:37] and the the animal can stroke out wow that's serious i didn't know it was that serious it's it's

[01:48:43] absolutely terrifying and the and the vet was was pretty sure we caught it early and he like he's seen

[01:48:50] like where there's been like hundreds of worms and a dog he thinks she only had like like five or six

[01:48:57] so i mean we got lucky as far as that but keeping her in a crate and keeping her sedated was was

[01:49:04] honestly terrifying because like for her for the idea that she could just stroke out at any minute when

[01:49:10] she hears like a dog bark or she sees something out the window and her heart rate goes up it was just

[01:49:16] it was terrifying but we made it through that was like the biggest non-advent non-hiking adventure

[01:49:27] with her was getting her through that so when did you started bringing her on hikes um

[01:49:35] it we stayed we stayed local when i first got her and we ran like that we ramped her up because i knew

[01:49:43] like you can't bring her on big long hikes right away so we stayed local and we did some of the

[01:49:49] shorter ones and then slowly i just started building her up and and building her up and

[01:49:57] and then she could do more and more like we'd come back and like she wouldn't be

[01:50:01] so stiff because like she'll come back from a hike and like like we get stiff and we're sore i mean the

[01:50:07] same thing happens to the dog so you have to be aware of that and you kind of have to like respect

[01:50:13] and learn the limits of what the dog can do but as you see like she handles more you can you can

[01:50:20] obviously add more on so tom speaking the limits what what the ladies legs aren't they rather short

[01:50:30] yeah beagle beagle hound yeah they are very short and uh all my time hiking in the cat skills are

[01:50:38] pretty much anywhere i've seen i've seen beagles before beagles are fairly common but i don't think

[01:50:43] i've ever seen another basset and i mean clearly many people also haven't seen other bassets because

[01:50:50] like the the number one thing i hear people say is oh look at those tiny legs like how how did she make

[01:50:56] it up the mountain and then and i mean she's got a low center of gravity and she's got four-wheel drive so

[01:51:02] i give her i give her a lot of credit so why don't you uh let's let's take something like the cornell

[01:51:08] crack is an example has she gone up the cornell crack and if so how did she get up it or let's pick

[01:51:13] another feature that most of our listeners should be aware of and you can tell us how sadie got up and

[01:51:20] door down that rock all right i can i can hit on the cornell crack only because it's it's interesting

[01:51:27] we've been on cornell several times but every time i've been up there i have not done the crack yet

[01:51:37] what what what's going on here i know it's on the list it's it's definitely up there uh but uh the first

[01:51:43] time i went up i did not take her we did i did myself i did slide and cornell we went up slide

[01:51:52] down the wilderness ladder and down the the slide i called i thought it was the cornell crack when i

[01:51:59] started out but i realized it's the the slide crack it's not the corner yeah so we went that way and then

[01:52:07] the second time i went up i gotta think we went we went up friday because i had to get her because

[01:52:16] she didn't get cornell on that first trip so i had to get her there so we went up friday over the dink

[01:52:23] and on to cornell which probably it was it was a good hike it was the thickest pine trees i've ever been in

[01:52:31] um and everybody who i tell that story is like the cornell crack would have been way easier but

[01:52:36] yeah well but so still on the uh western side of cornell you do get that one it's they don't call it

[01:52:44] the cornell crack but it can be as difficult to go up and down that how did sadie do on that

[01:52:52] did she need a boost to get up through there do you have to carry her up there are certain times a lot

[01:52:58] of stuff she'll she'll bound up but there are certain times where like i'll i'll pull her by the

[01:53:03] handle on her harness and i'll lift her up and then she'll go and then usually like if i can get

[01:53:08] her to a spot where she'll stay there and then i'll come up after her we find a way to make it work

[01:53:16] recent spot that that terrified me the first time i went through was the shoot on indian head i feel

[01:53:24] like that's a fairly relatable spot that people know and it's the east side yeah the the coming up

[01:53:31] from from the uh devil's acre cove oh yeah sorry sorry yeah going up that shoot like it's a hell of a

[01:53:40] it is a hell of a shoot and the first time we went up there like i i've learned that i keep

[01:53:47] the the handle of the leash around my wrist at all times because the first time we went up

[01:53:51] we got up i don't know like three quarters of that shoot and like i don't know if she jumped or

[01:53:56] she slipped or something but like i felt the leash slipped through my hand and i caught but i caught her

[01:54:03] and yeah that's that's when i like that that shoot scared the crap out of me

[01:54:08] and that was i was like that's that's it for the shoot for a while but we just went back

[01:54:13] uh a couple weeks ago um and we got it and much more cautious and i mean there's video because i i

[01:54:23] linked up with uh zach in action and he he was ahead of me and so he was able to shoot the video of us

[01:54:31] going up the uh shoot and it was it was wild but yeah that that was one of the few times that like the

[01:54:38] first time that i went up there that i was like actually kind of terrified like that something

[01:54:43] seriously bad could have happened to the dog yeah and then you get you kind of get more self-aware and

[01:54:49] you're just like shit yeah for sure what hikes if any can't can't she do there are hikes out there

[01:54:57] that you know typical hikes in the catskills that most catskill hikers do that you want to take uh

[01:55:02] i mean i i keep i've done um certain stretches whether here in the delaware water gap or up in

[01:55:09] the catskills of like about 14 miles i've done that like less than a handful of times but i have to

[01:55:17] watch i watch the elevation if i go an extended distance like 14 miles like i try to keep the

[01:55:23] elevation in check um but it's anywhere from like i don't know like 3 800 feet of elevation is

[01:55:32] probably the max that i will push on her because i mean she does she come back she comes back and

[01:55:39] you can tell she's stiff that's a lot 3800 feet is a freaking hell of a game that's like white mountain

[01:55:46] shit it is it is a lot but like like i don't know i'm trying to i can't think of an example of that

[01:55:52] but like i know like when we did like winham winham usually it's a shorter one but we ended up

[01:55:57] turning into like almost 13 miles with with a long road walk because i did the

[01:56:02] pretty much that whole yeah the whole thing and then we walked back on the road i forget where

[01:56:07] i started but uh i call that i call that the maplecrest loop yeah that might yeah that that would work

[01:56:13] probably but uh yeah so that was that was one of the longer longer trips into catskills but it was a

[01:56:21] road walk so it wasn't or at least part of it was road walk so it wasn't terrible what about doggy gear

[01:56:27] you want to talk about doggy gear i'm i'm somebody when i hiked with the dog i was a young kid i didn't

[01:56:33] have anything i hiked in you know land that nobody else was hiking i'd have to worry about other people

[01:56:38] using a leash anything like that but out here in the catskills you know leashes harnesses things to eat

[01:56:45] and drink what do you what do you bring along on the hike for sadie to have a drink with a bowl

[01:56:51] i have a portable bowl that hooks onto my backpack with a carabiner uh works great um she will only

[01:56:59] she will unless she's really thirsty she will only drink water when it's pouring out of the bottle

[01:57:04] she won't drink it in the bowl so i have to usually i have to pour it back in the bottle

[01:57:09] and then pour it back into the bowl she's uh she's spoiled like that but she's worth it so tom tell us

[01:57:15] do you carry more than one bottle or are you guys sharing the same bottle oh yeah no i i definitely

[01:57:23] carry uh if you if you smelled her breath uh you would carry her own water yeah well i mean you know

[01:57:29] after all i mean you're a dodgers fan so i wasn't quite too sure about that all right now moving on to

[01:57:33] the food food do you what type of food do you bring along for her um usually the the standard fare is

[01:57:41] i i carry like six ingredient dog biscuits they're like biscuits wrapped in in chick with chicken

[01:57:48] dry chicken she likes those a lot um apples sometimes carrots every once in a while but

[01:57:56] she's like without fail she knows she's getting the crust off of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich

[01:58:02] but it it depends on the distance that we're going how long we're going to be out there sometimes it's

[01:58:09] just it's just treats and the peanut butter and jelly sometimes it's it's the extra stuff so speaking

[01:58:17] about extra stuff let's talk about the poop bag yes yeah what do you do you know i i i'm gonna let

[01:58:27] you explain what you do and then i'm going to explain what i think everybody should do i know this

[01:58:32] is this is going to be controversial i have i do i do pick up of course and i do not leave it

[01:58:39] and then say oh i'm gonna come back and i'll get it on the way out that's bullshit um i have

[01:58:46] a contraption that i put on it velcros to the leash it's kind of like a hollow t where the the top part of

[01:58:57] the t is is wider and then the stem of the t is is narrow so you tie a knot in the dog bag and it'll

[01:59:06] sit it'll slide into that stem of the t on the leash and it just it just hangs out there the only

[01:59:15] thing you have to watch for is when you're bushwhacking is if the bag tears you can put it in another

[01:59:21] bag and i mean that that was i had to use like eight bags on uh cheryl and north dome because we

[01:59:27] kept hair in the bag but yeah for sure you gotta you gotta pick up your dog crap if you're on a herd

[01:59:34] path or if you're on a blazed path if i'm if i'm truly bushwhacking and she goes usually i won't

[01:59:43] um because it's just it's it's in the middle of the woods but any any any trail that's established

[01:59:51] whether official or unofficial that people can find easily um i definitely will clean up after her

[01:59:59] did you make up that contraption yourself no i found it on amazon it was they sent me like three of

[02:00:06] them for like four dollars so i figured i would i would try it and it's so so far it's worked good

[02:00:13] i don't know if it's going to be the uh permanent solution but for now it's it's working well send me

[02:00:19] a link and i will post it in the show notes for everybody all right yeah i can definitely yep i can

[02:00:23] find it so you know i i don't hike with dogs i really would like to but my dog's a psycho and she

[02:00:30] reacts to other dogs so seeing a dog uh another dog on trail would be at absolutely catastrophic

[02:00:38] but you know the one thing that i think of i know this is very controversial uh but i would think

[02:00:45] that if your dog shits on the trail just take a stick lick it into the woods and you're done um

[02:00:52] yeah it's controversial it is you gotta admit it is a little bit i mean if

[02:01:00] if there's times where you forget a dog bag or you don't have something else i mean i could see

[02:01:08] i could see doing that um i try not to forget my dog bags um but no that would work i mean and it

[02:01:17] depends it depends how much poop there is yeah yeah and how much and how much fling there is

[02:01:24] of that right yeah i mean if you're if you're getting you know three feet off the trail versus

[02:01:31] 30 feet right you know right what the type of distance and then i assume over time there's like

[02:01:37] you know a concentration of flinged poop to the left and the right of the trail and then we'll all

[02:01:44] have a strong dominant yeah yeah they will all know that stosh got a dog and he's been walking this

[02:01:48] this trail quite a bit with his dog so yeah well you know it's it's nice to hear that you're really

[02:01:54] thoughtful about this and and making a concerted effort and i've seen quite a few times where you'll be

[02:02:03] hiking along a trail and people will tie these poop bags with poop in it to branches along the way and i

[02:02:11] don't understand that what what is i mean what are they thinking when they do that's that's like what i said

[02:02:16] like the thought process before oh i'll get it on the way back i don't want to carry that the whole

[02:02:21] hike um and i'll get it on the way back whether whether they intentionally don't mean to get it or

[02:02:28] they they legitimately forget it's still it's it doesn't give them a pass to do that yeah yeah so

[02:02:37] do you have any like uh like tips to someone who is first hiking with their dog and stuff like that do

[02:02:43] you have any like kind of reach arounds that you want to talk about that you know of to kind of give advice

[02:02:51] the biggest thing if you're going into the cat skills with the dog is the harness um i will hit on

[02:02:59] my wittenberg experience just because that's that's like the most notable one that i remember

[02:03:05] the most um wittenberg was my fourth peak um going up was fine but i did not have a harness for

[02:03:14] for her at the time so we got up wittenberg she bounded up most of the stuff no problem

[02:03:21] but coming down like i mean she doesn't realize when she's going up that she has to go

[02:03:27] back down and so like if it takes if it takes two and a half or three hours to get to the top of

[02:03:35] wittenberg it took us like probably closer to six to get down wow so i like yep so i almost i almost

[02:03:43] came out in the dark didn't have a headlamp but we didn't come out in the dark so that's another thing

[02:03:50] not specifically related to the dog but you should always have a headlamp

[02:03:53] but yeah a harness because i've gone back and done wittenberg several times now with the harness and

[02:04:00] it's it's no problem now but it's just if you don't have a harness it's rough and then the other spot that

[02:04:08] was that was rough that i that i learned along the way this was after i got the harness um but i i got

[02:04:15] halfway up and realized i forgot it was we were going up twin but not jimmy dolan side it was t-point

[02:04:22] notch side and nice that that side is is terrifying i want to get back to that side too with her with

[02:04:31] the harness but like going up that was was hard without the harness because even even some of that

[02:04:39] like she couldn't bound up and then like once i got to the top of twin i was like nope we're not

[02:04:45] going back down that so we we looped around and then went down jimmy dolan and then i walked the road back to

[02:04:52] whatever that whatever the parking lot is where we parked roaring but yeah that yep yeah so how hard

[02:05:01] is this on you lifting uh sadie up putting her down you know i guess lowering her down with the leash

[02:05:09] on some of these uh rock features is that pretty tough on you not too bad i mean she's like 50 pounds

[02:05:16] it's she doesn't look 50 pounds but she's all muscle but nice so lifting her is not too too bad but like

[02:05:23] like like she knows like if we're going down like and and and we're going down consistently like i can

[02:05:30] kind of like say wait or slow and like whether she actually understands it or not i don't know but i mean

[02:05:38] she like she will slow down and like so like she doesn't end up pulling me down the mountain and she knows

[02:05:45] like if if i tell her to wait it means like it's a it's a spot where i have to concentrate on

[02:05:51] on getting myself down without her pulling and most of the time if i say wait or slow or

[02:05:58] or whatever she's she picks up on that so we've had pretty good luck communicating like that

[02:06:05] what about winter hiking with her you get her out in the winter i do we i mean she finished the 3500s

[02:06:13] with me and our our last climbs were the winners which my firm my my panther credit i went up

[02:06:23] by myself because i knew i was going to get the sunrise from giant ledge and i knew hanging out

[02:06:30] and like i don't know 15 degree weather for two and a half hours waiting for the sun

[02:06:35] to come up was not going to be real great for her so we i left her home that day but then we went back

[02:06:42] up fox hollow to panther and that was tough there was like 18 inches of snow but it was kind of

[02:06:51] crusted over there were still spots where she sank down a little bit but it wasn't

[02:06:57] it wasn't awful it was a long hike fox hollow is long and it's unrelenting but um

[02:07:05] but we got there so i mean she's she's got big big paws so i mean there's lots of circulation in there

[02:07:13] but generally generally i won't take her if it's like less than 25 degrees out i will generally not

[02:07:21] take her because i try going the boot route and she just will not get used to the boots so i can't do

[02:07:28] that but i mean she's the snow doesn't seem to bother her i i do periodically check like in between

[02:07:34] the paws to make sure there's no like snow buildup or ice buildup um so i'm conscious of that um like if

[02:07:42] we stop for a minute it's not like she's lifting her paws up to try to get them off the snow

[02:07:47] um so she's she's pretty tolerant of the snow yeah what about uh winter hiking gear a vest anything like

[02:07:55] that yeah i have a couple a couple different sweaters i have like two different coats that seem to work

[02:08:02] pretty well um but other than that not much more as long as we're moving she's she's pretty good like

[02:08:11] sometimes if we if we stop for an extended period of time i'll notice she starts to shiver a little bit

[02:08:17] but that's like if if she doesn't have the coat on that's what i'll put the coat on or we'll start

[02:08:22] moving again and then she'll be fine again um it's just you just have to be aware of it you have to

[02:08:28] watch for it seems like you're aware pretty well of of what her needs and stuff like that you know

[02:08:34] to be honest um i'd probably be like you when i'm out there i'd be more aware of her needs and be more

[02:08:40] self-conscious of what she needs more than me i'd be like yeah no shit too silver and i don't really

[02:08:45] care about myself i care about her let's get her to safety that's exactly right my my biggest fear is

[02:08:51] on like hiking in the catskills it's not getting lost or a bear or a mountain lion it's it's dogs that

[02:09:00] are off leash that could come at her i mean i haven't had any serious encounters but i've had like some

[02:09:08] closer encounters with semi-aggressive dogs that have scared me and i mean it's like that is my worst

[02:09:15] fear is if like if if she gets into it with another dog yeah scuffle so it's horrible so you have no

[02:09:24] kind of way no escape really you know it sucks so with uh with you and sadie or just yourself well

[02:09:31] let's go with you yourself what is your favorite hike in the catskills been so far uh without a

[02:09:38] doubt favorite trail is is twin i love twin to death i've been on twin for the sunrise the sunset

[02:09:45] that that will probably be maybe the only mountain that i'll that i'll grid for all 12 months um i i

[02:09:55] love twin a whole lot and and then probably for the non-trailed there's something about friday

[02:10:03] that i've always liked that that rock face that you walk above or walk next to and then you get on top

[02:10:10] of it and there's a couple views up there that are phenomenal you get to see the ashokan from a couple

[02:10:16] spots and i don't know it's just friday is just a really neat mountain i agree and it's got some

[02:10:24] major it's one of the most biggest gains in the catskills 2 900 feet uh yeah moon hall is is rough

[02:10:31] it's great it's phenomenal it's pushing any mountain in any direction it really gives you a

[02:10:36] a kick in time it's it's fantastic so what about you and uh sadie have have you guys i mean i know

[02:10:45] she can't really speak to you but do does she have any favorite hikes um i mean probably a little walk

[02:10:53] along the area yes some of the some of the like the like i i know like not to go off topic too much

[02:11:03] because i know we're running kind of long but like i i work monday through friday uh a regular job but

[02:11:10] like she knows when i get up on saturday like for three o'clock in the morning or whatever she knows

[02:11:15] she's ready to go like she knows i'm not going to work she knows like i'm not taking her out and then

[02:11:20] putting her back in the house and going to work she knows we're going she knows it's her time

[02:11:26] so i mean she definitely wants to be out there but as as far as like her favorite

[02:11:33] like i would say probably probably the like the flatter spots where i will generally let her sniff

[02:11:39] as much as she wants oh yeah um because her nose just goes constantly but there's there's a point

[02:11:45] in time where i kind of have to like like tell her let's go we're we're here we're here to walk

[02:11:50] we're here to hike if we don't if i let you smell every twig and branch like we're going to be here for

[02:11:55] fucking 16 hours having a beagle i understand i used to have a lab beagle mix so she would

[02:12:04] like tug me in any direction and then sit there and snip for like like five to ten seconds each

[02:12:10] of every three feet and it would just be absolutely insane so cool cool uh so any uh

[02:12:18] anything else ted what do you got oh i don't you know i mean there's a lot of stuff we can cover but

[02:12:24] uh tom why don't you tell us you know anything that we didn't cover in terms of uh oh ted's paused

[02:12:33] again has everybody paused i know you the notes that you send me one uh beer mistake um no cheap ponchos

[02:12:42] they rip and uh you get wet and if it's cold that's not fun some of the gear don't cheap out on

[02:12:51] snowshoes because if you need them and they break and you don't have an infield fix your you could be in

[02:12:57] for a real rough time favorite piece of gear that uh that i just recently bought because i've been carrying

[02:13:04] around a uh a half gallon water jug for myself and i finally bought a camelback and it's been

[02:13:10] life-changing i don't have to take my backpack off when i need water so that's been a real game changer

[02:13:18] which i should have bought in one like like two years ago when i started but it's tough it's a tough

[02:13:24] conversion i gotta admit yeah it's not going from a water jug to a camelback yeah yes because i mean

[02:13:33] the water the water jug was heavy not heavy but it was heavier and then you put the water in and

[02:13:38] obviously it makes it heavier but the camelback is is fairly light by itself so i think it probably

[02:13:46] even though it it holds more water it's probably lighter than my water jug yeah i just the the issue

[02:13:56] i have with using a hydration bladder is you don't know how much you're drinking when you're sucking you

[02:14:04] know fluids in through the tube that is true and i'm learning that like i i on uh north dom and

[02:14:11] shaw like we i don't we got like three quarters of the way and i had to be like i had to check and see

[02:14:15] how much water i have so i know how to yeah how to kind of ration it yeah you don't know when you're

[02:14:20] under hydrating or over hydrating so i i switch back to using uh you know just uh nelgene and i keep

[02:14:29] yeah i keep a collapsible uh water container in the pack and i'll fill up the nelgene when i empty it but

[02:14:37] this way i know how much i'm using and how much i have left and i just find my my ability to maintain

[02:14:43] a decent level of hydration hydration how about you all just carry five liters of water like i do or

[02:14:50] or a six pack of brewskis i carry one i carry one just one yeah i have to say man there's something

[02:14:59] about a summit beer that is the best i had one at bel air i forgot to mention that that i had a

[02:15:06] good awestruck at at bel air the top of bel air there's something about it it kind of gives you that

[02:15:11] boost to go back down i don't know if it's about the boost or not but just it kind of cements

[02:15:16] moment of of being up there you know you had a heartbeat you took this time off yeah and you

[02:15:23] you kind of earned that moment of just being out there and enjoying it what else tom you you know what

[02:15:30] uh what's what's your next gear purchase coming up um you know i don't know i i uh not to

[02:15:41] probably well for the winners last year so last winter i i invested in wool which i mean i knew

[02:15:49] about it but like i i was wearing like polyester and stuff which was was okay too but the wool is

[02:15:55] is a game changer for sure so there might be more of that wool you're gonna encase yourself in wool

[02:16:03] yeah i turned myself into a sheep yeah what is it what is it about wool that you find appealing

[02:16:10] you said it's a game changer how so uh well i mean it whips sweat um it's it's not

[02:16:19] something that gets super stinky like you wear polyester and you're like oh my god i stink after

[02:16:25] after after four hours i i at least i noticed i mean i do um and the wool doesn't get like that

[02:16:34] good point i mean yeah it's it's kind of light i mean like when i first got one of the uh the wool

[02:16:40] shirts i was like how is this wool and it's but it is it's like the merino wool and it's just like

[02:16:46] it's not like your typical like wool sweater that you like real like what that your grandmother

[02:16:51] uh you cut out oh i did i'm cutting out now it's going back and forth oh it's going back and forth

[02:17:01] so it's really weird so post-hyg bruising bites what do you have uh suggested for us

[02:17:06] yeah it's it's a good one um i don't usually stop because i don't like leaving the dog in the car

[02:17:13] for a long period of time but i did when when i took my dad to balsam lake uh we went to the

[02:17:19] diner afterwards and that was a really good experience i've heard uh rios is amazing but

[02:17:26] i haven't been um i know it's on the it's on the list yeah i'm good suggestion phoenicia diner is

[02:17:35] pretty good i gotta admit man everybody's pausing what's going on are we having storms all over the

[02:17:41] place i i i think it's the russians i think it's the russians yeah yeah it's the witch it's the way

[02:17:49] to go yeah tom tom's tying it all together yeah so tom thank you for joining us tonight really appreciate

[02:17:57] it uh i had a great time chatting about your experience with the catskills also with sadie's

[02:18:01] experience gripping the capsules hopefully i wish you i wish she could talk it would be fantastic to hear

[02:18:06] her times in there she probably had good times with you guys good talk it would and tom let's hook

[02:18:12] up let's get together do some hiking yeah yeah let me know i know the last time we talked uh like i i

[02:18:18] know i was met the first time i went up van wick that's another story that i could save for another

[02:18:22] time but like that's one of the that's still like my most sketchy hike in the catskills because we went

[02:18:28] the dog and i went up the steepest part of van wick so it was it was crazy but i know that was the

[02:18:34] hike where you you said you had to talk to the boss meaning your wife and then it did for whatever

[02:18:38] reason it didn't come together but but yeah we definitely gotta get together because i mean

[02:18:43] i would love to hike with both of you guys let's do it let's do it and the dog bring the dog

[02:18:50] yep 100 the dog oh i wouldn't i i'd yeah i'd love to have it so thank you to the monthly supporters

[02:18:56] monthly sponsors really good appreciate you guys uh giving to the show it's it's absolutely phenomenal

[02:19:01] uh thank you to everybody who's still donated to the show i really appreciate it and thank you to

[02:19:07] everyone who is still listening uh really appreciate uh still believing in us in 145 episodes tom

[02:19:14] thank you for joining us tonight thank you for listening and uh thank you for uh still believing

[02:19:20] in the show if you still listen to it do you still listen i do every every uh whether i mean the one

[02:19:26] episode that i was on the river and i was listening like a couple weeks ago i was i listened to the

[02:19:30] episode on the river it's it's almost like a ritual at this point where like saturday saturday one way

[02:19:37] or another whether it's the drive up or i'm i'm hiking down here it's i have an ear one earbud in

[02:19:45] and i'm and i'm listening if i'm hiking down here or on the car ride up to the catskills it's good to hear

[02:19:51] all right tom just one last question go ahead do you know do you know what the game the score is right now

[02:19:58] bottom i do see the school you bought it what is it what is it just yell it out yell out the score

[02:20:03] tom come on but it's going to end it five to two yankees yes yes two yanks let's wait till the

[02:20:12] bottom of the ninth where grand slam all right we're ending the show now stosh all right so thomas

[02:20:19] thank you my man thank you thank you once again have a good night uh yeah we'll catch you out in the

[02:20:25] trail absolutely hi everyone i just want to thank you for listening to the show if you enjoyed the

[02:20:36] show subscribe and throw down a smooth review on spotify apple podcasts or any podcast platform

[02:20:44] that you use you can also check daily updates of the podcast hikes hiking news and local news on facebook

[02:20:54] instagram twitter and the official website of the show remember this you gotta just keep on living in the

[02:21:03] cat skills man m-i-v-i-n wicked wicked wicked wicked