Episode 228 - Author and AT Thru Hiker Jeff 'Bluey' Lewis - MidLifeHikeThis

[00:00:29] The bushwhacks were some of the worst days I've ever had in the mountains, or life, really. Whereas Pantsy Mountain is totally opposite, it's a mountain on top of a crater. I think the weather challenges on this incident were particularly difficult. It is really the development of New York State. Catskills will respond to it.

[00:01:01] The Catskill Mountains Podcast Episode 228. Tonight we have Jeff Bluey Lewis joining us tonight. Appalachian Trail Hiker. Appalachia, what is it Jeff? I don't want to get him mad. Thru hikers will kill me.

[00:01:24] I grew up in Ohio and it was Appalachia in Ohio, but then when I moved to Pennsylvania a number of years later, it's Appalachia and on trail, it was interchangeable. So it depends where you're from. All right. I just whatever someone says, I say the same thing. Okay. So the Appalachian Trail Thru Hiker. And he also has a book coming out called Mid Life Hike This. Love the name. Love the name. I'm guessing, you know, I'm not, I'm going to guess this has to do with the midlife crisis.

[00:01:54] You nailed it, man. Good. Wow. I'm so smart. I think, I think it's important that maybe we guide our crisis into something productive. Right? Yeah. Wait a minute. Wait, is there somebody, wait, who is that? Did somebody just speak? The cat. Isn't it the cat? That is that Ted? Yeah. Ted, welcome back. Yeah. I'm here to do my victory lap. Welcome back, Ted. Sorry to interrupt, but.

[00:02:19] Yeah. Yeah. So Jeff, I mean, we'll get into it later on, but you know, midlife, you look like you got at least a decade to go before you hit the midlife. Yeah. That's all I'm going to say. Well, so I did the math and, uh, male life expectancy in the U S is 78. I mean, maybe, maybe I could get a few more years, you know, I hope so. But, uh, you know, I'm 40 at this point, 41, I was 40 when I hiked the trail and I'm just going on math. So I'm not going on some, uh, what someone else thinks I should be doing.

[00:02:49] I'm a 50%. That's a good, I mean, good, good question, Ted, because you know, who's everybody doesn't know what midlife is. So Jeff is here with us tonight. Midlife hikes, uh, hike this author of an Appalachian trail through hiker. He's going to talk about his through hike and he's going to talk about his, uh, his new book that's coming out in September. So welcome to the show, Jeff. Thanks. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Let's start this off with a bang saying, I apologize for last week weather outlook that I had on Sunday.

[00:03:19] I said it would be like partly cloudy, clear in disguise. It was not like that in the Catskills. So I'm, I'm, I don't, I'm the weather is not 100% accurate. So forgive me for that. So, but you'll still do the forecast. I still will. I still will. And also Ted welcome back, buddy. It's good to have you back. Yeah. Well, like I said, man, I'm, I'm here for the victory lap to celebrate with you and our listeners.

[00:03:49] We're what? Two and O now in the chronograms. Yeah. Yeah. Number one, uh, regional podcasts in the Hudson Valley on the chronograms. So thank you everybody for voting for, you know, listening. I mean, it's, it means a lot to, to me and to Ted, you know, that we have a tight knit group in the Catskills in the Hudson Valley. These people, uh, these hikers, whoever listens is, is awesome. Our community is tight.

[00:04:17] And, uh, Ted, with that being said, I'm just going to say this, Danny knows about this. We're taking over the Catskills. It's time. We're going to take over the four low, four lows lodge. It's time to take over program and double top. Dude. I've, I've already done that. Um, you know, I've already done occupy double top. Yeah. I know it. We'll do. Yeah. We'll do occupy double top 2.0. I'm down for it. We'll get our attorneys.

[00:04:42] Do we hike more and how on it to, you know, get us legal representation, maybe a bondsman to post bail bonds if we need to. Um, yeah, but I'm down with that. So we'll be there. We will. And I also wanted to say, you know, school's out. Summer has begun. We've hit summer and it's starting to begin, uh, the rescue calls. It has started.

[00:05:08] We had a lot over the last week, so we're going to talk about them right now. And Ted, what was that buddy? Sorry. Yeah. I was a little surprised by the number of, uh, Catskill call ends. Um, so beat the Adirondacks. Yeah. Quite a bit here. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, in Denning on June 26, 6, 25 PM. Ray book, Dick Sprach called forest Rangers, Horn and Sweeney about a subject who planned to die by suicide.

[00:05:35] The subject told the loved one and the plan was to go after eating his last meal and never sink. Looking at a Google search history and credit card history, Rangers determined the subject ate at a restaurant and never sink and did a search for the Denning trailhead to slide mountain wilderness at 7 PM. Rangers Horton Sweeney located a 31 years old car in the parking lot of assistant forest Ranger Smith reported. He saw a hiker matching the subject description on the trail, approximately a mile from the parking area.

[00:06:04] Rangers, all wing and Fox joined the search for the slide mountain trailhead. All four Rangers continued onto the summit of slide. And at 3 AM, once again, 7 AM is when the 7 PM is when they arrived there. So 3 AM Rangers located the subject from New Jersey camping in a wooded area, wooded area off the summit. Rangers escorted the subject to the trailhead where New York state police took them to the hospital for a mental health evaluation. Resources were clear at 6 20 AM.

[00:06:31] So unfortunate incident up there, not an unfortunate and to the good outcome. We got a good outcome. So amazing jobs by the Rangers. You know, they're trained in this, in this type of thing, great little like background check and then kind of detective work that they had doing this. And they found the person and, you know, outcome was good. Let's hope the person, you know, the is okay.

[00:06:56] They've got the things going and, and let's hope that's kind of changed their mind that they were up on slide and they were like, wow, this is actually really beautiful. I like this. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do anything to myself. This is great. Yeah. Well, we, we don't know what went down. I've just, I find it interesting that they refer to a restaurant in never sink.

[00:07:17] And although the never sink river flows through that area, the community known as never sink is miles to the west, many miles to the west. And that's where I, that's where I would have thought the restaurant is.

[00:07:35] And I also note that, um, nine eight eight is the number you dial for the suicide and crisis lifeline and that they have counselors available in English and Spanish. So make a mental note of that number nine eight eight. And if you or someone, you know, is thinking about suicide, reach out for help. Please, please, or, you know, reach out to me.

[00:08:04] I don't mind talking with anyone who is having these kinds of thoughts and stuff. So I'm all for somebody living their life. And if they need to be guided up sugar loaf or Indian head, I will take you up there and I will show you what we have here in the Catskills and how you stay alive and you should hike in the high peaks of the Catskills and around the Catskills or anywhere. So great outcome. Great job by the Rangers. Amazing. So good to hear. Then we move on the next day in the town of Hunter.

[00:08:35] God, 911 requested force Ranger assistance for a hiker having a seizure near Ardus Rock on the escarpment trail. Rangers Fox, Franceschina Jackson and Kocher reached a 63 year old, did a patient evaluation and carried the subject to the, excuse me, to the trailhead. But a Catskill ambulance was transported the patient to the hospital and the resources were clear at 1 55 PM. So another good outcome. Scarpment trail, very popular place. So unfortunate incident.

[00:09:04] So, uh, yeah. And just so the records clear, it wasn't me, although I'm 63 years old. Those of you were wondering if that was me. Why he's been absent. Yeah. That's great. All right. Well, that's good outcome. So great outcome. Uh, let's move on to the same exact day on June 27th at 2 PM.

[00:09:29] So just right after they got done at a 1 55, uh, forest Rangers respond to a responded to a call for a subject with cardiac issues at a campsite in the Indian head wilderness along Echo Lake Rangers Fox located 20 year old from next concept conducted a patient assessment. And provided food and water for the Rangers along with the twin clove technical rope rescue team. That's a mouthful.

[00:09:53] And the Cedar Grove and center of all fire departments helped them load the subject into a UTV, which drove to the overlook mountain trailhead Woodstock ambulance reported or transported the patient to the hospital and resources were clear at 6 20 PM. So another good outcome. I mean, once again, this is like freak freak accident and stuff. We're not looking at negligence or anything. So that's good. Echo Lake, very popular place for camping and, and overnighting.

[00:10:20] So it didn't look like, yeah, nobody on the, the, or Fox. Yeah. Fox went right from that call to the other call. So Fox is putting in the miles, I guess. That's what we call a double header. Right. Good Lord. Uh, and then in Hunter again, the next day at 1 42 PM Dawson responded to a call for a hiker with an ankle injury near the Catskill mountain house site.

[00:10:46] Dawson located a 29 year old and assisted them back to the trailhead, which is like 400 yards away. And resources were clear at 2 30 PM. Uh, you know, at 1 42 PM on June 28th. So what is June 28th? Is that a, a weekend? Yeah. Uh, Friday. So there are not as many people there. There could have been like, if it was a weekend day, you know, the, the 200 people up there just could have helped them out. So. Yeah.

[00:11:12] Well, those, those ankle injuries can happen at any time, any place under any circumstances. When you're out hiking, whether you're a hundred feet from the trailhead or 20 miles. True. True. So all positive outcomes and you know, once again, no negligence. So it's not like, you know, somebody was doing loan and Rocky ran out of water, ran out of battery or a phone battery. Didn't have a GPS. They started a fire, started to force fires.

[00:11:42] Like that, like just weird, you know, it's weird what we heard last year and we'll, we'll see what we've seen. We got coming on to this day. So I'm looking forward to hopefully people, you know, being responsible. Uh, as we've, we've heard in the past instead, we'll, we'll see what we get. Yeah.

[00:12:01] Well, for the most part with all the hiking that's going on and remarkably with all of the people who are seemingly unprepared for the unexpected, there's still really a relatively low number. Of bad stories. Yeah.

[00:12:21] You know, especially with these, these rain storms coming in, you know, these powerful thunderstorms that we've gotten, you know, it's, it's, I'm very grateful that it's been warmer out because, you know, once again, these thunderstorms roll in, it's like, you know, 65 degrees brings it down to 40 degrees. And now, you know, we have the chance of hypothermia with these, you know, some of these people that are unprepared, but you know, we had it. Yeah. Freaking a 95 degrees thunderstorm rose in. Yeah. Let's drop that down to 88 degrees.

[00:12:50] So, Hey, thanks for the shower. That was good. Let me summit four more peaks. Now. That was a good wash up. So Jeff, what do you listen to this? You know, the Catskills. I don't know. You're familiar with the cats skills. I mean, I, I, you've hiked through the Shenandoahs are very similar to the cats skills. So that's, that's basically what the cats skills are somewhat, we just have a little bit more steeper ascents in some certain places, but you know, this is not bad outcomes.

[00:13:17] Have you, you know, when you're out hiking, have you heard of, this is basically the basic stuff, right? Yeah. What's, what's funny. I don't know if you saw me taking notes where you guys were talking, but I've wrote the word poser with a question mark, because I have to admit, I've never hiked the cats skills and I'm ashamed. I will do it. Um, my, my buddy PMA or Sean, as you know, I'm the long Island hiker. Um, you know, that's his home. He loves to spend time in the cat skills.

[00:13:42] So I promised him last fall when we were out for a hike that I will, I'm buying snowshoes and I'm going to do some winter cat skills hiking with you. If you said it's anything like the Shenandoahs I'm in the Shenandoahs were just spectacular. Some of the easiest hiking. I say that once you're up on the ridge, it's some of the easiest, smoothest, most beautiful hiking on the AT. So, uh, I look forward to, to, to hike in the cast heels and maybe tell you all about it and how I feel about it. Yeah. Excellent. Yeah.

[00:14:11] It's still, it's, it's pretty far away from you. Yeah. Right. How much did you get out? Probably. Let's see. Uh, probably six, six hours, seven hours. Hmm. It's a hell of a drive. That's like from us going up to the whites. Yeah. Well, it's worth it. Three days. Yeah. I mean, if you capital on the, the, the AT you're, you're fine to do three or four day hike up in the cat skills. That's that's easy. Oh yeah.

[00:14:38] If you're going to, I mean, same thing you said, you're that far from the whites. If you're going to go to the whites, make up at least a long weekend out of it, make a week out of it. It's it's, it's beautiful. Yeah. Cool. Cool. So excellent. So that's a little bit of shooting the shit. So just got some rescues and stuff. You know, I had one thing, I took it off of here, uh, tad, because I didn't know how long we would be on shooting the shit. Cause you know, uh, I don't know. It was about the, the dog that I got attacked. And we talked about. Oh yeah.

[00:15:07] About the, uh, the dog that I got attacked in pine bush. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it's backyard. A bear came after it. Yeah. So, I mean, I will go over it really quickly. Like I, I kind of doing this from memory because I watched the video and you know, I read the article as a lady who let her dog out a little bit later at night for a last minute, you know, pee before they went to bed. The dog went out, the dog went outside and looked like a beautiful little pit bull, uh, went outside.

[00:15:35] And all of a sudden a bear charged it, attacked it and kind of like grabbed it and was like throwing it around. The lady said it was just, it was scary as heck. Was that the, uh, the video where the guy ran out in his underwear? Uh, I didn't really notice if he was wearing underwear or something else. I wasn't paying particular attention to the apparel. Okay. Just the screaming and the sense of franticness. But if you zeroed in on a guy on his underwear, I'm glad we got that on the record.

[00:16:04] That was the one he fired the gun though. Right. The gun. I don't seem to remember that. Okay. So maybe that was a whole different one, but like, like once again, the, the bear, the, the dog had like stitches on its back and side, but the dog looked after that. This is why I love dogs is, you know, they go through this trauma, but they still love life. Like it, it got ripped apart by a bear and it was out there kind of wagging its tail at the people taking the video of it.

[00:16:31] And I was just like, you know, the lady said it was just absolute like chaos. And just, she, it was horrible. She couldn't do anything. The bear was huge, just attacking it for no reason. And I'm pretty sure the, you know, once again, I got, I can't believe I, I took this out. She, I'm pretty sure he came out with a gun, fired the gun a couple of times and the bear took off. And it was just, it was, it was weird. And I mean, it happens and Pine Bush, where's that located? Tad. That's the, you said that's down in the Hudson. Yeah.

[00:17:00] It's about 15 miles south, somewhat west of New Paltz, kind of at the toe of the slope of the Schwan Gunk Ridge. If you're going to Sam's point, you're probably going to go through Pine Bush. Okay. So once again, I'm pulling, pulling that up right now. 101 pound mixed breed pit bull came in, uh, routinely, uh, does goes in the bathroom, routinely does before they get head out in the yard.

[00:17:29] He put his head up and started barking. The bear came charging through the woods. Uh, yes, this was the one that had the living room nanny camera that captured the terrifying. And the guy came out and just underwear his, his boxers. Uh, I mean, that's underwear. And like, had like, you want, what do you do when a bear is attacking you? I mean, I would go out and beat the living shit out of the bear, but in your underwear. In my underwear. Absolutely. Now do you wear boxers or you wear something else? I wear boxers. Okay. Boxers. And I at least have a t-shirt on.

[00:17:59] So now if you were, if you were wearing briefs, would you still go out after the bear or is it only in boxers? First of all, I wouldn't have a nanny camera on at those times at night. It's kind of kinky, but all right. And, but I still would go out and beat the shit out of the bear, but you know, The guy, the dog, for the dog, for the sake of the dog. Exactly. You know, I love wildlife, but don't, don't go after my dog. Okay. So we're up when we're on the topic of write-ins, I just want to throw out. Did you hear of, I'm going to ask Jeff.

[00:18:29] Did you hear of that young woman, Kelsey, who rode a boat from California to Hawaii? Um, what was it? 2,400 miles in 43 days. Did you hear of that? No. She got someone on the 4th of July, she rose into, you know, the Harbor in Hawaii, um, completing this solo journey.

[00:18:58] She was a graduate, a 2012 graduate of the, uh, Adirondack high school. Excellent. Yeah. Upstate New York. So I thought that connection was interesting. Worth mentioning. That's pretty crazy. What kind of boat? Just like a, like a small sailboat? Uh, no, a rowboat. Uh, but when you look at the row, yeah, their row boats are purpose built. You know, I mean, these things are, it's not what you're going to go rowing in your, your local pond or a road. Or a lake.

[00:19:28] These things are like ocean going row boats, you know, with a lot of different instruments and flotation and navigation and, you know, all this stuff, but still 43 days. So low. That's incredible. Yeah. How many miles again? 4,000. 2,000. 2,400 miles in 43 days. Wow. She, she broke the, uh, previous record was 86 days. She basically cut it in half.

[00:19:58] No shit. Yeah. That's, I mean, that's what growing up in the Adirondacks does for you. Right. It looks like somebody, some, some person in the Catskill is going to have to go after that and shatter that. Yeah. Now the most interesting part of this stash is she did it wearing boxers. Right. Some parts of the story aren't true. Let's move along to the next topic. Yeah. So, so excellent.

[00:20:23] So once again, big thank you to the monthly supporters, Chris Garabian, Eric Rosario, Ascana Nichols, John Comiskey, Mikey S, Desert City Radio, Henry Burmeister, Vicky Ferreira, Jeff Jotz, Betsy A, Denise W, Vanessa and Jim C. Thank you guys so much for your support. Once again, you're not supporting just the show. You're supporting the Catskills as well. And big shout out to our amazing sponsors like Molly from Outdoor Chronicles Photography.

[00:20:51] Molly specializes in adventure couple photography and she'll immortalize your moments amidst the stunning landscapes of the Catskills, Adirondacks and the White Mountains. She'll craft timeless images that reflect unique bond in nature's grandeur. Embark on an unforgettable photographic journey with Outdoor Chronicles Photography. Don't hesitate to get a hold of Molly on all platforms. Also, if you want to discover the wilderness, you need to go with Trailbound Project.

[00:21:18] Our expert-led hiking and backpacking education programs offer unparalleled outdoor experiences. Whether you're a beginner or seasoned adventurer, join us to learn essential skills, explore stunning trails and connect with nature. Start your journey today with Trailbound Project and unlock the wonders of the great outdoors. So, Ted, I've flipped things around since you haven't been here. We're going to go with before our tags and stuff, we're going to go with if anybody's drinking anything.

[00:21:48] Yeah. So, my takeaway from that is in my absence, you were getting really, really thirsty and wanted to crack open that brew sooner as opposed to later. Yeah. Okay. There's nothing wrong with that. It's summer. It's been hot and humid. So, you want to know what I'm drinking? Yeah. Well, it's the first Tuesday of the month, so it's No Brew Tuesday for me.

[00:22:12] And I have a delicious mixture of cranberry juice and water. Impressive. Yeah. Are you okay? You backed up? Like, that's… No, no. Yeah. All right. But, yeah. But I am wearing boxers. It's hot. Well, it's not hot. It's humid. Yeah. No. So, it's No Brew Tuesday and I don't know.

[00:22:36] I wasn't really interested in having another carb in my go-to for the past few weeks is cranberry juice and water with a straw. All right. All right. I like it. Jeff, how about you? You have anything to drink tonight? I am. Before I get into it though, I have to say, Tad, I've got a friend who turned me on to a non-alcoholic alternative for sour beers.

[00:23:00] And you take like a San Pellegrino or some kind of sparkling water, mineral water and mix it about two parts sparkling water with one part tart cherry juice or some kind of like real cold press cranberry. And it tastes just like a sour beer. It's delicious. You should try it. I am… I'm living high class today. It's a beautiful Tuesday. So, I've got a Boda box Chardonnay, the best they have.

[00:23:30] Hmm. So, that's my sipping for the evening. Wow. Listen, I've had some fancy people on here. That's… That's… That's the fanciest we've gotten so far. Yeah. That's… I don't even know how to spell that. Like… Chardonnay or Boda box? Boda box. Is that Australian? No. So, it's Boda. B-O-T-A. It's like the boxed wine that they have it… Actually, they have it in the Shenandoah. Is that the way states… Or the way sides? You don't have to admit that, Jeff. No. Make it sound sophisticated.

[00:24:00] All I want to know is when you talk about wine in a box, I want to know if it comes with a straw. Uh… It does not. No? But… You could get a straw. I don't judge. Yeah. You just like stab a metal straw on the top of the box and start sucking it down. It's like a Capri Sun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Well, that's… I put that down. We're going to tag that. So, I… Hold on. Hold on. Wait a minute. Ooh. Yes. Yes. So, that…

[00:24:29] Sounds like a hard cider to me. Well, what else would I have, Ted? I have a Hudson North salted watermelon. Oh, salted watermelon. Yeah. Talk about exotic. Talk about the summer. The summer. That salted watermelon. Yeah. Also, I know listeners is Stosh has got to put like a splash guard on his microphone because you kind of see it's like a speed boat going by the dock when he cracks that open. There's like this wave of, you know, hard cider coming out of the top.

[00:24:57] You can hear the carbonation coming up into the microphone. Well, that's right. I… Usually I sip out… It sounds horrible. Yeah. But not… It's got to be the low setting. So, good. Good. Glad everybody. Once again, Ted, thank you for being… No brew. Yeah. No proof. You know… Supporting our listeners who were on the wagon. Yeah. I appreciate it. So, another big question is, are you really outdoors?

[00:25:24] So, mention the podcast, one of your hikes through social media. We'll chat about it on the show. You tag us by typing at ITL Catskill MTM Podcast on your post. So, of course, we started off with who else but great old Todd, aka T-Bold's Outdoors, was up at Wakely and Louie for 85 and 86 of his Adirondack 100. So, getting close. You know, 14 more left. That's getting close.

[00:25:53] I'm guessing the Adirondack 100 is the 100 low peaks? Yeah. I'm sure it's like what we have down here in the Catskills. You hike to 46 and when you're done with that, you don't want to start on a grid or while you're doing a grid, you head over and do peaks number 47 through 100. Yeah. And I'm impressed that Todd Bold has covered so many of them. And the guy's really getting out there banging out some mountains. Yeah. Kudos to him.

[00:26:23] Sounds to me like Todd has got a complete and full grip on his midlife crisis. Correct. And you know what? I want to have that midlife crisis or midlife hike. That sounds like something I want to deal with. Please bring it on, life. Yeah. That's why Jeff is on the show. He's going to guide you through it. Exactly. Exactly. So hiker Joe also was in the Adirondack hiker, Joe and why did Haystack Wakely and also ampersand mountain.

[00:26:52] And then the next week was tackling out Wittenberg for sunrise had some beautiful pictures of the sunrise. I believe he did that with Tom. So looked fantastic, man. That's, you know, breaking out the sunrise at this time of year for Wittenberg has got to be challenging because he got arrived there. Probably what? Fucking like two, three o'clock. To start the hike. I'm going to say you got two hours to get up.

[00:27:21] Sunrises, let's say, you know, a little after five. Yeah. So what is that for, for Jeff going up to Wittenberg? Wittenberg has probably the most stunning, uh, Catskill view. It's, it's an open ledge, massive open ledge. I would say it's around, around four miles up to the top with over like probably 2,300 feet of gain. Wow. So it's, it's a slug and you go, you just go up, up, up, you get to the certain part.

[00:27:49] You kind of go a little bit flat, tiny bit flat, and then you start like almost scrambling up towards the top. It's so much fun. And the beginning sucks because it's just, it's just an up, up, up slog. But once you get up to that scrambling, it's fun. And then you get to that view. It's just massive. So he had beautiful pictures. Check him out. Hiker Joe and why fantastic.

[00:28:13] Uh, also Serena Marie 46, or was on white face and Esther, and also has a new book out called raised by the mountain. So she describes this at four years old, a venomous copperhead bite gave Serena her first terrifying taste of mortality. Decades later caught in a blind blinding storm on the toughest peaks of the presidential range. Her body almost gave out entirely. Soaked to the bones and miles from safety. She wasn't just battling the elements.

[00:28:40] She was an active heart failure climbing alongside with a partner with broken whips. What followed as a medical ordeal would have, that would have leveled the strongest among us, open heart surgery for a total valve replacement and aortic aneurysm repair. To stay alive. She was placed on Coumadin, a heavy blood thinner that would could turn a simple back country stumble into a fatal emergency. But Serena refused to fade away silently. Instead of retreating to a safe life, she laced up her trail runners.

[00:29:10] Driven by a fierce necessity to reclaim her anatomy, she stepped into the wilderness again. Finding her true strength in the pitch black of midnight trail alone, she defined medical logic to become an ultra hiker on some of the most unforgiving terrain. Raised by Mountains is a breathtaking, raw, and deeply inspiring testament to human resilience. It is a story for the hikers, the survivors, the fighters, and to anyone who has ever been told their limits have been reached and chosen to push them away.

[00:29:40] So Raised by the Mountains, Serena Marie, 46er. Check it out. New book out on Amazon. And she said something else. I forgot what it was. Amazon. Yeah. So she tagged the show. It sounds like she's guest material. Yes. Correct. We'll have her back on. We'll have her talk about that. That's a great idea, actually. Sorry, finishing up the rum and coke. There we go. All right. So Tony, TJI 72 was up camping in Vermont.

[00:30:10] Looked like he had a great time paddling and tackling some peaks. Phenomenal time. He said it was super hot, but they stayed out of the heat. Scott, Catskill Mountains Brew and Zorro went up Bear Pen and Vli and then up Balsam Lake Mountain on two scorching days. So hopefully they stayed cool. Chrissy G. But just going back to Scott, Bear Pen and Vli, which I love those mountains. But he was on the last episode, wasn't he? Oh, I'm sorry.

[00:30:40] I was just saying, here's Scott. He's up doing this epic multi-day adventure in the Adirondacks. And when he comes back to the Catskills, what does he hike? He's tired. Yeah. For Zorro's tired. He's tired. That's okay, Scott. Yeah. He's obviously grieving. That's what that says. Good call. Good call. Chrissy G. Also went to the Catskills to cool off and stopped at Pratt Rock, Mount Ewan Bramley.

[00:31:09] So she was kind of doing the upper Northern Catskills. Good to see you up there and to see people tackling Bramley. I love that. Yeah. So Jeff, do you know what Pratt Rock is? Say again, which rock? Pratt Rock. Don't know Pratt Rock. No, sir. Pratt Rock is like the Mount Rushmore of the Catskills. Now Google it when you're done with the show tonight, and I'm sure you're going to put it on your bucket list of things to do during your midlife crisis.

[00:31:39] So are all the best hikers, are they carved into the rock there at the top? I think Pratt himself is carved into the rock. Okay. Yeah. So it took, it's a historical guy like back in the, what was it? Late 1800s, mid 1800s, 1900s. Yeah. He had a tannery. Yeah. He had a tannery and it was like the biggest of its time, but he took down all, like all the fricking woods over there and stuff like that. But he was one of the richest in the world at the time.

[00:32:09] And he felt that he needed a town named after him and stuff in the mountains carved named that carved after him. So. As one does. Yeah. All right. All right. Um, let's see, Tracy pink pote 18 went to Fahenstock. I'm going to say that it sounds a little German Fahenstock. Yes. And hike some of the eight over there and Fahenstock, I guess. Uh, Rachel Jean, the gypsy queen was out enjoying the cool waters of the great aesopus.

[00:32:40] Let's hope those waters aren't getting warmer because as we've talked to fly fishers before that water is getting warmer, we're losing the fish. Yeah. Not to be negative. God. And it's good to, good to see her out. I think she was on a little hiatus, uh, maybe work related for a while, but it's nice to see she's back up in the cats. Yeah. Cruising around. You know, it's great to see someone to actually tag us. Joanne beyond blazes. Finally. Yeah. She tags us all the time.

[00:33:08] I was, I, I, I nag on her a lot. She did an early morning solo hike up several south double top and then went off and did something somewhere. Uh, didn't really said what she was. It was at, but you know, I know where she was at. Yeah. Well, she goes off exploring and I haven't checked up on her recently. Um, but last I did, she was, you know, inside of 20 to go on her cat. Go grid. So she's got to be getting to the end.

[00:33:38] She actually, I'm pretty sure she is finishing up her all trails soon. Hmm. I'm pretty sure what's today. The seventh this weekend. I think she's finishing up her all trails and maybe her, her grid. I'm not. I remember Danny talking to me about it. So she's got a weird section to complete over on. Is it Cone Hill right off of the Elm Ridge? Uh, uh, uh, could be.

[00:34:04] Cause I, I, I think she's like, and, uh, uh, wind them this weekend. Yes. So, so maybe she's, I'm pretty sure. Uh, Danny said she's finishing both. So good for her. Yeah. So hopefully, you know, maybe I'll, I'll, I'll quit my job, have a midlife, uh, hike crisis, crisis, hike this, and just start going to hike in with all these people's having their finished up for goddamn list because I'm sick and tired of fricking corporate America. Screw this shit. I'm done. It's all podcasting.

[00:34:34] I'm going to live off of 20 bucks a month. You should do it. Well, we would tap Tad, when you said she's on a hiatus, I love the irony of that. I was flipping it on its head that she's on a hiatus from being adventurous and now she's got to do work crap. Like that's, it's, that's the wrong, or she's got the right way of looking at it. Like go, go do work for a little while and then go back to living. Yes. I agree. Yeah. I, you know, uh, Jeff, I totally agree with you. I've had that discussion many times with people, you know, given that I'm in my sixties

[00:35:03] and how ass backward, not to throw out a technical term, but I think it is a technical term. How ass backward. We have it where people work deep into their work life is Jeff pointed out the statistical average age of death for an American male, presumably white is 78. And a lot of guys work until their late sixties.

[00:35:29] And then they retire and they got like eight years left on the clock when they're least likely to be capable to enjoy life. So why don't we let people check out from age 50 to age 60 and then come back to work? I think it makes a lot of sense. Yeah, that's what I'm sure we'll get to this in our conversation, but that is exactly with what hit me, just smacked me in the head when I was like, you know, I keep saying, I'm going to do this thing, whatever your thing is, everybody got their thing, but I'm going to do this

[00:35:57] thing one day, someday. And it's like the years keep ticking by. And I looked at my calendar and I couldn't find someday on the calendar anywhere. And it was like, you know what? I don't know if I'll be able to do it at retirement age. I hope I can, but like, I don't know. A lot could happen. It's like, you got to live life while your body lets you, you know, you got to like take advantage of every day. Every day is a gift and not saying be reckless or irresponsible, but you can't just wait for life to happen.

[00:36:27] Um, cause cause life will just happen to you. If you don't happen to it, you've got to get out and do, you got to take charge and do the thing. You can always go back and work later. I mean, you can work when you're 70, if you want reckless and irresponsible at the age of 40. No way. That means that means I'm basically going to be hurting the next day or of some sort of thing, whether it's drinking or being out on the fricking trail and doing something stupid. The bounce back takes a lot longer. It does. It does. It does.

[00:36:57] All right. So I can't wait to hear about that, man. So let's, uh, move on. Mike at red handed, red hand adventure guides was up at red hill on a warm summer breeze. Uh, Patrick, the trail scribe is one step closer to his 35 doing Indian head mountain. Uh, Andy, AKA Brown ski was paddling on lakes to high he on a beautiful sunny day. And last but not least, Danny mild mischievous was on plateau mountain and spotted a marker.

[00:37:25] Basically one of those orange markers that said rustic boulder steps to define trail. And Tad, he told me that I thought this would be on the Western side of plateau where there, you know, where, where shits just shitty, but he said this was on the mink hollow side. I was like mink hollow. That's actually a really nice trail. Like it, it needs work up there. Do you think that it needs work at all? And the mink hollow going up plateau?

[00:37:51] Uh, well, if they are in the process on the plateau section itself, uh, to fortify that, harden up the surface, get rid of that. Punky wet soggy area. That would then make sense because you have that on the Western side. Um, if it's part of the incline coming out of mink hollow. Yeah. I could see them maybe doing some improvements along there. Um, like they did on blackhead.

[00:38:20] Although I don't really think there's anything sketch enough. Along that incline coming out of mink hollow to warrant any trail work, but I could see them doing that punky swampy part. But I imagine you'll tell us later on that there's punkier and swampier spots in the cats. Yes. All right. Yeah. So I'm very curious.

[00:38:45] So now maybe this week I'll, I'll run up plateau mountain and see what's going on because I always like to be up to date on this. So people, once again, tag us put what's going on in the cat skills. You know, I'd love to hear about it. I'd love to see about it. Cause then I can report back. So. Well, cause we have, we want to have an opinion about everything. So clearly. Yeah. We want to, we want to crush on the DEC. It's all, it's all about voicing our opinions, right or wrong. We just shoot from the hip. We like it. We like it that way. Yeah. Screw the target.

[00:39:15] We're just shooting from the hip. Ready fire aim. Yeah, exactly. Damn straight. That's my midlife crisis. Let's hope we hit at least part of the target. Usually we don't. So that's, that's, what's good about this show. We are not nowhere near perfect. Let me tell you. Yeah. It's all about the bang. Yeah. And you know what the bang is buying us a hard cider on the show. So if you think we're doing a good job and you want to, or if you don't, yeah, if you don't, you know, if you think we're doing a bad job, buy us a hard cider.

[00:39:44] You can state why we're doing a bad job. And, uh, you know, the statement will make me feel bad, but the hard cider won't. So it kind of evens out. So go and buy me a coffee.com throw us a hard cider, you know, appreciate the show. Also rate the show on any platform. You can go ahead and rate it on any platform. It doesn't matter five stars. Uh, and that's about it. Can't really do anything else for us. Be the best. Um, and then we move on to previous hikes.

[00:40:14] What does anybody got Jeff? What have you been doing? I know we're outside of the Baltimore area. It's a little tough to get in a good, you know, elevation gain hike. What do you got out there? What have you been doing recently? Uh, there's not a ton of elevation. But I've been, uh, spending some time. I actually had a lot of time in West Virginia. Um, I love West Virginia. It's only about a two of the best parts, like the Dolly sods and like the Thomas Davis, uh, Canaan Valley area.

[00:40:40] It's maybe a three to four hour drive, but some of the, whatever your outdoors thing is that that area is fantastic. Cause some of the, some of the best mountain biking in the country, arguably in the world in West Virginia, like the ski lifts in the summertime, they'll take you up and you can ride down for miles and miles. Um, but also the shinies it's, it's hard to beat the Shenandoah is as close as they are to the Baltimore DC area. Yeah. So that's where I've been spending most of my time.

[00:41:08] I actually, my, my trail family, my, my tramly and extended trail family, just a couple of weeks ago, we went down to Front Royal and provided trail magic to this year's 80 through hikers for the weekend. And just an awesome experience. Nothing like hiker trash helping hiker trash. It was just such a, such a good time. We got to spend some time outdoors of course, as well, but, um, that's been primarily my scene this year. I haven't gone too far from home. Hey, you know, I love Front Royal.

[00:41:36] Uh, that was a fantastic. That's where Jessica and I like basically stay the night before we go on the Appalachian trail for doing the, you know, uh, handouts and stuff like that, that we do. For the hikers. But, uh, you know, I saw that from Sean, Sean posted, uh, the little thing. I didn't, I didn't know you were there. He didn't tag you in it. So. I think he actually, did he? No, I think he, he took my post and reposted it.

[00:42:03] So I don't, I wouldn't have been tagged in it because that we're calling him out on that. Yeah. I'll give him shit. No, that's great. Ridiculous. But that's awesome. What you do, the trail magic. Yeah. It's just so much fun. I mean, and as you guys know, whether, whether you're doing a long hike or just a weekend thing, you're out for the day and it's 90 degrees and you're sweating your butt off. And somebody is like, Hey, would you like a cold Gatorade? It's like, hell yes. I'd like a cold Gatorade. Yeah. Oh yeah.

[00:42:33] Nothing better than loving on people when they're, when they're out in that stuff. Um, so it's just, uh, it feels good. It feels really, really good to give back. And, uh, I would like to say, there's no wrong way to do a kind thing. Just, just love on people. Correct. I agree. And with Jessica and I plan on doing that next year, just a little bit different. We're going to, instead of, you know, um, doing a day to day, we're going to actually rent the RV that we want to buy in the future and then go up and down the Shenandoah.

[00:43:00] It's kind of a little bit cheating, but we don't know like our plan, but we, Jessica might at sometimes stay at the trailhead or drop me off at one end. And then I'll hike back to the other end so I can catch up to some of the through hikers and she can get the through hikers that are coming through that notch area or something like that, that trailhead. So it's going to be fun. I love trail magic. I suggest anybody, you know, get ahold of Jeff, get ahold of Sean, get ahold of Rachel Jean.

[00:43:25] You guys can go out and do some trail magic along, you know, the bear mountain trail down in the, uh, the Hudson Valley and stuff when you're there coming through the Hudson Valley. Cause like you said, there's no other look on somebody's face when even you say the smallest thing, Hey, I got a pack of sour patch kids. And they'd be like, what? Holy shit. You know, they, they love homemade stuff. Like Jessica had muffins that she made and they weren't filled with stuff, which we should have done.

[00:43:53] Um, oh, um, and she just, they just loved it. Dude. She had at least, I think it was 36 main. And she got them all out within the first, like I would say six hours of when we were out, uh, doing trail magic on the Appalachian trail. So. Oh, sure. Peach cobbler, any kind of like home, homemade stuff like that. Another one is cold fruit, like cold, fresh fruit. You can't get that on the trail. True. It's just, and of course a nice cold cider PBR is going to go a long way too. You can't go wrong there.

[00:44:23] Bring some Hudson North tad. There we go. Hudson North and have them sponsor us. Yeah. But Jeff was, he was so specific. A PBR really? It is. You do all that hike. I don't know. What is it about a PBR? I don't know. It's, it's full bodied. Uh, there, I don't know if I'm sure they do come in 12 ounce cans, but it's something about finding a pounder there that you can just, you know, down in about two and a half seconds. It's just, it's so good. It's so refreshing.

[00:44:50] And it's, it's, I mean, as long as you don't have eight of them, it's, it's really, it's what you need when you're out hiking. Cause it's got, it's bread in the can, you know, it's got all this, all the carbohydrates, all the things that you're losing all day long. So what you're saying is that if you, if I attach like a PBR to the back of my backpack and I'm like running ahead of you and stuff, you'll chase after me. Like, give me that, give me that.

[00:45:14] I swear to God, when we were in the, where were we in the smokies and we were coming up on a new found gap, there was a sign that said trail magic ahead. And the guys I was hiking with at the time, we saw that. And we were all running to get to, to new found gap to get there. And each, like every couple hundred yards, there's another sign where it's like ice cold beer and pulled pork sandwiches and fresh fruit. And just like every sign we're like, go, go, go. Yeah.

[00:45:43] I mean, you can motivate a hiker that way. All right. All right. I have to remember that because once again, I just think of like Gatorade and water and stuff, but that, I mean, people got to up your game, man. Oh, real food, man. Yeah. I'll tell you what I was, I mean, I wasn't carrying, but when I went up the balsam lake, man, I was carrying the heaviest of shit, but excellent. Excellent. So thank you for the, the trail magic, Jeff. That's awesome. And, and it's glad to hear long Island hiker Sean was out there. So that's cool.

[00:46:11] Um, bread in the can. That's what you got to bring with you. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So Tad, what were you up to buddy? Oh, um, so a few of you have noticed I have not been on trail for weeks and that's because I recently had rotate tour cough surgery on June 24th. And I am on the mend.

[00:46:39] So recently my hiking has consisted of two to three mile walks in the local town park. And one of the many things I've noticed while hiking or walking in the local town park is I see more wildlife in this local town park than I do when I'm hiking in the Catskills. Okay. Almost guaranteed. Every time I go there, I see at least one deer, if not many.

[00:47:08] And the weird thing is, is these deer, you can get so close to them. It's almost like you can like toss them an apple or something. And maybe that's what people do to them, but in the Catskills, you can't do that because they're just not used to, you know, seeing or encountering humans. So my, my recent gig and will be for the indefinite future is I can't call it hiking.

[00:47:31] I'll just say walking in the town park, but maybe next week I'll come up with some exciting story about how I picked up a soccer ball for a kid and kicked it back to them during my walk. Okay. So Ted, are you okay with sharing what happened? Like, do you know what happened with your night? I, I, I, oh, I'm so I see the surgeon on Friday.

[00:47:56] So when people are listening to this on Friday, I will be getting the low down of what he saw when he went in and did the surgery. Um, I will say that your rotator cuff consists of four muscles involved in the rotation, abduction, yada, yada, yada of your humerus, your upper arm.

[00:48:20] And of those four muscles, I apparently were completely two of them. In fact, the two largest ones I totally blew out and it was such a big blowout. According to my orthopedist, he actually laughed at me because for a guy, my age was a pretty significant thing.

[00:48:43] So at any rate, um, I put my trust in him and he of the three people I consulted with was the one who told me that I would not be happy. If I went for the reverse shoulder replacement, I would limit my activities going forward.

[00:49:04] And while the reconstructed surgery is got a somewhat guarded prognosis, he said it was worth a shot because I wouldn't be happy not taking that shot. So on the 24th, I had the surgery and on Friday, I'm going to get the low down of what he saw, what he did and what he thinks my recovery is.

[00:49:27] But in the meantime, not only is this water in cranberry juice I'm drinking, but it's like chocked full of peptides that are supposed to make my tendons grow back to where they're supposed to be. Good. I'm glad you're on the right path. My drink of choice. Yeah, well, we hope so. If I'm not on the right path, there's always bushwhacking. You know what I'm saying? At least so long as I don't go running around at night in my boxer shorts chasing after bear. Fire guns. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:49:57] I mean, that'll be the, make sure you have a nanny camera for that, please. I mean, well, that's unfortunate to hear, Ted. I mean, to be honest, I know the whole story in the background, so I've known it then. You know, I guarantee everybody on that listens to the podcast, everybody that's been on will wish you only the best and that a speedy recovery. And then we can get you back out in the fricking. Wait a minute. Let me rephrase that. Not back out in the trails. That's bullshit. Back out in the bushwhacking thing. We can hear about your bushwhacking stories.

[00:50:28] I hope so. Yeah. So I'm sure some night when we don't have a guest, I'll pinch hit and give you all the details on it. But until then, you're just going to have to keep listening week to week if you want to hear the story, because we're not going to let you know when we're publishing. It's going to be like they do on TV, you know, the cliffhanger. Wait till next. Yeah. Until next time. To be continued. Yeah. To be continued. So Stosh, you know, speaking of hiking, things that I don't do anymore, what have you been up to?

[00:50:58] So recently I went up to good old Balsam Lake Mountain. I had the, on Sunday I was like, I would like to hike. I really would. It looks to be a good day. The humidity has dropped. The temperature has dropped. So I was like, fucking let's get out. Let me fucking get out on the trail. Once again, Jeff, you know, I'm getting to that point of life. You know, once again, you see all these stuff on, on Instagram and stuff, just saying, you know, stop, stop, like avoiding chances and take them.

[00:51:28] Like you got it. You got to live your life. So that's basically, I was like, I have the opportunity. I'm not going to fucking stay at home. I'm going to go out and hike. So my plan was I had two options. I was like, I'll go up Bramley. Of course it's right there. Or I'll go up, you know, Balsam Lake Mountain. I was like, I'll shoot for Balsam Lake Mountain. Number one, I didn't get on the road until probably like 1030. So I didn't reach.

[00:51:55] When I reached Palmer Hill, which is right above Margaretville, I can see the high peaks. I can see Double Top. I can see Balsam. I can see Balsam Lake and I can see Graham. And I was like, I will decide there if I can turn back around and go up Bramley or if I can go back down south and Balsam Lake. So I hit that point and I was just like, all right. I'm like, I'm guessing, you know, it looks like some of them are obscured, but you know what? What the fuck? I'm just going to go.

[00:52:24] So I headed to Balsam Lake Mountain and I started my hike at 1159 a.m. That's a late start. You know, Tad would be like, this is atrocious. That's when I'm getting done with the fucking hike. I'm going to Bread Alone for another coffee on the way home and then hitting Stewart's at that time as well to get some to eat. Maybe some chili or meatballs, you know. But I started the hike.

[00:52:52] There was only four cars in the parking lot. Another couple was starting their hike and I was, it's funny because one of the guys had those big, huge backpacks that they carry a kid along. But we never, I never saw them. So I was just like, huh, they must have went up the Dry Brook Ridge Trail, which Jeff goes to the north instead of the south. So I took the south trail up the Balsam Lake Mountain, which is a fire tower.

[00:53:17] So we have a beautiful seven fire towers in the Catskills that offer beautiful, unobstructed views. And went up there. It was nice and slick here and there. Tad, I really, my objective was to get to the fire tower in under an hour. Guess what I got there up there in time? 42 minutes. Nope. I hit the trail junction at 44 minutes.

[00:53:46] And I was like, shit, I have 16 minutes to get up to the top. That's three quarters of a mile with pretty shitty gain. Like you got some good gain. I didn't make it one hour and two minutes. I was slacking. I thought you were going to tell me you found a kid on the trail as you were walking. You're like, oh, buddy, you dropped something. Oh, no, no. I'd just be like, hey there, buddy. And I keep going. I got to hit this time. Like I got to get up there. So what was, was it a hot and humid day?

[00:54:15] It was dude. Like stale air, no air movement whatsoever until you got to the tower. It sucked. Were you pulling down a lot of fluid on the way up? Absolutely. I had my pack. Once again, this is a day hike. My pack was at 32 pounds. Yeah. Chris. Ouch. Exactly. I had. Well, dude, dude, you better check out those rotor cuffs because heavy packs like that apparently

[00:54:43] don't do well with your, your rotator cuffs. But that's another story is we've already heard. Yeah. It was, I had a lot. I had my, my food in there with ice packs to keep it cool because it was a nice, it was a good sandwich. I had my nail jean bottle. I had my electrolyte bottle of smart water. Water. I had three liters of water. Um, I also had my, uh, Arizona iced tea. I had my first aid kit. I had my rain gear and I had backup clothes.

[00:55:14] So once again, I don't, I, I don't care about, you know, going light because eventually sometime I'm going to go into a backpacking thing of where it's pretty long distance that I like to care. I like to be comfortable. So one, and then, you know, tag me and I, once again, if something happens on the trail of somebody else, I can give that along to somebody else and they could, uh, you know, be comfortable on the trail. So I didn't mind. So I get up to the top. The view is somewhat open and I see it.

[00:55:43] The trailhead register. I already know who's at the top, but Jim Bouton and Margaret are up there. Yeah. So good old Jim Bouton is up there doing his stewarding. And I yelled to the top of the fire tower. I'm just like, there's rocks on the goddamn trail. Get them off the trail. He's like, the DC is coming in seven years. And I was like, Oh, nice. So, and then I asked him, I'm just like, you got any mountain lines up here that have attacked? I heard there's a containment area South of here.

[00:56:10] And he was laughing, but he asked me where I came from. And I said, Oh yeah, I just, I did the loop. And he's like, looking at me, he's like the balsam lake loop. I'm like, no, no. I did double top Graham. And then came over here, went back down. His eyes was just like, Oh yeah. Yeah. He was, he was just like, no, you didn't do that. And I was like, I'm just kidding. He lit up. Those were the days. Yeah. It was, I used to do that hike all the time. It was one of my favorites. Yeah. It was, it was, it was still, it was fantastic.

[00:56:39] Like last time I was there three and a half feet of snow. So I took some pictures of, of before and after. So I, I should compare them. Yeah. I'm pretty sure the last time I was there was that super cold day we had back in January with not only was it super, super cold, but there was just really, really big drifts going right up the center of the trail.

[00:57:02] And if you were on the, the lee side of the drift line, it was really soft and not compacted. And you, you had a bus through it where you could get on the winter windward side of the, the drift and almost stay on top most of the way, but it was just bitter cold going up there that day. Yeah. And, uh, that was my last time up there. I didn't get to see Jim booting. How's Jim doing? Good. Good, good, good. You know, he's, he's, I mean, they're, they were doing stewarding, so they're doing some

[00:57:29] amazing stuff and we chatted, uh, you know, just about local stuff. What's going on with the DEC, you know, what do we think stuff like that? And, you know, the, the cabin up there is, is been closed for over six years now, and it was, the DEC has not had a plan to do the floor on that. The floor is decaying. So nobody can go inside. It's historical spot.

[00:57:56] People have been up there since the 1960s, but even before then, you know, and they haven't had anything. And apparently, you know, somebody quoted it for around, you know, maybe max of around 50 K and the DEC sent somebody up there and it was quoted at $800,000. Yeah. Well, those, those people sound like the same people that Donald Trump hired to build his ballroom. Yeah. Or the pain of the goddamn thing.

[00:58:25] But anyway, get away from politics. Uh, but yeah, so we chatted, uh, views were in and out. It was pretty cool to see the rain coming in, but we had a lot of first people there. So this was our first time ever in a fire tower. And I'm just like, oh, I apologize. Even though like, I'm not, I'm not the steward there, but it's just like, I'm sorry, you don't have views here, but this lady was just like, it's so beautiful to see the rolling clouds come in and disappear and stuff. So it was, it was a good time.

[00:58:53] Never didn't, it rained only when you were up in the tower, didn't rain down below. So it was pretty cool. It was pretty cool. And what, and what were you drinking again? Uh, I had that up there at Arizona iced tea. Uh, that was a hard. I mean, I wish. Raining in the tower, but not below. Yeah. What do you think? What do you think of that, Jeff? You believe that story? Uh, I don't, uh, you know, we're supposed to have opinions. I think I'm just going to sit this one out. Okay. Yeah. Keeping your gun holstered. That's okay. I'll wait for the bear.

[00:59:23] Yeah. There's no bears. No, but, um, fantastic time with Jim. Margaret just talked about the Catskills, left some stickers on their car. Uh, met some good people. The one thing I gotta say, what do you mean by that? You left stickers on their car. Did you peel off the backing and then put them on their cars or did you leave the backing on and put them on? I just stuck them right in the window. Okay. Yeah. I did not, not stickered at, but I should have, you know, people tag us. We should tag them with stickers in the parking lot. True. Yeah.

[00:59:53] No, I've got, I've got to tell you guys, my friend, uh, and her family, or at least her husband, uh, they're up in, I have to look real quick. I'll get the name of the town, but really close to y'all. And she texts me just a day ago, two days ago. And it's your, I don't think I can get it on the camera here, but the inside the line, the cat seals mountain podcast sticker. She's like, I'm talking to a guy at the store. I was like, Hey, my friend's going to be on their podcast. And he's like, take the sticker. Get like, spread the word. So your, your name is out there.

[01:00:23] Sounds like camp catskill. Yeah. Nice. So good. That's so good. That's so good to hear. Yeah. So the only thing I want to say, Ted and Jeff, that this was odd, I come back down and Jim and Margaret are the only ones up there. And they're the only ones at the parking lot. A lady pulls in and she asked me how the trail was, was it muddy? I'm like, ah, it's not bad. It's just a little wet. And she's just like, I can't wait to get up. And I'm like, where are you going? The fire tower? She's like, yeah. And I was like, excellent. It's going to be a great hike. It's very muggy.

[01:00:54] Then she, uh, Ted, where do you think she heads? She heads in the other direction. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, and she said, she's been up here a dozen times and she heads over in the dry brook Ridge area. And I was just like, Hey, uh, just want to let you know, ma'am, the, uh, fire towers the other way. Um, she's just like, Oh, and she's just like, Oh, I get lost in these situations. I'm like, well, I hope I didn't hear you lost in the ranger report soon. Wow.

[01:01:24] I would have assumed she was going that way just to like relieve herself before she got in the more popular. True. I might've, I might've, I might've, I might've fucked that up. Sorry. Yeah. Whatever. Um, so yeah, it's great time. A little, uh, the forecast wasn't as great as I thought it would be. So, but I had a good time. Got up there, got to talk, got some mountain air, got some mountain time. So sweat my, my ass off sweaty, but had a good time.

[01:01:51] Arrived home at like five o'clock, head there, then went to sleep two hours later. It's a great day. Crazy. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, move it on. Catskill news. Definitely volunteer. New York, New Jersey trail conference, 3,500 club, Catskill trail crew, Catskill mountain center, visitor center, uh, Jolly rovers, Kirtu, Beverly mountain fire tower. Um, if you want stickers, get ahold of me or go to camp Catskill.

[01:02:20] Uh, also New York, New Jersey trail conference, July 11th and 12th is doing an Eastern hemlocks participating data collection on Belleville mountain of the Appalachian trail in Warwick, New York. Ted, that seems pretty cool. Thanks for putting that on there. Um, what is this? I'm guessing they're just going to do like a, an observation of the Eastern hemlocks. Yeah. It's like we had that fellow earlier this year telling us about the summer.

[01:02:46] He went out and collected data and it very well might be that that's what they're doing is recruiting people to go out and collect, uh, data about, um, the health or lack of health of the Eastern hemlocks. Uh, so yeah, that caught, obviously that caught my attention because I love hemlock forests. And I thought some of our listeners might want to do that as a side gig as opposed to go out

[01:03:12] and doing, you know, some Catskill hiking, go over and check that out on July 11th and 12th. And it looks like that's a reoccurring thing throughout the summer. Um, but check the schedule and try to get out there and do that with the trail conference. Yeah. It's great to learn new stuff, you know, and to identify and we can help out Dr. Kudish as any way possible to get his data.

[01:03:36] So also the Catskill lean to crew is, uh, July 11th and 12th, which is this weekend, a Saturday and Sunday is doing the Bel Air ski area for trail maintenance. I'm guessing up. That's the Giggle hollow area. Uh, what else is around there? What's that crazy, uh, elevation gain? Uh, yeah, but there's, um, several areas. Sorry. I started to put it on the spot. Yeah. I'm not sure which, um, lean to that is.

[01:04:06] Cause I didn't look at this one and look it up, but I know there's a few lean twos up there. Oh yeah. Right up at the top of Bel Air mountain. Okay. Okay. That's right at one of the top of the ski runs. Shit. I know. I'm sorry, Ted. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. But there's, but there's a few of them, you know, in that area. Um, and that's kind of an interesting area as you head back, uh, east towards big Indian

[01:04:31] and fur because you have that long, long stretch of old growth forest. Yeah. That's a Giggle hollow lost clove area. Yeah. And in this time of year though, that, that whole Ridge just gets in that segment gets really overgrown. Nice. Yeah. It's cool. Definitely worth hiking. Yeah, definitely. So get together with the Catskill lean true crew. Uh, we'll see. We'll keep you up to date of what's going on.

[01:04:59] So guys, how about we break it into the weather forecast? Here is your weekend weather forecast, which we know is usually completely inaccurate. Sorry about last week. So yeah. On Friday, July 10th, expect a warm and humid day across the Catskill high peaks with the mists of sun and clouds.

[01:05:24] There is a chance for scattered afternoon showers and thunderstorms, especially later in the day. So she should definitely keep an eye on the sky. Summit temperatures will range from 70 to 75 degrees with the humidity staying on the upper eighties. On Saturday, July 11th, a cold front will bring in cooler, more comfortable conditions to the high peaks. Expect a mix of sunshine and clouds with only a slight chance of an isolated shower.

[01:05:52] Visibility should improve throughout the day, making for excellent hiking conditions. I said this last Sunday and it was completely inaccurate. I'm sorry. Summit temperatures will range from 62 to 68 degrees. On Sunday, July 12th, another beautiful day is expected with partly to mostly sunny skies and low humidity. Light winds and comfortable temperatures should make this the best hiking day of the weekend with excellent conditions for long heights and summit views.

[01:06:19] Summit temperatures will range from 64 to 70 degrees. Looks to be a great weekend to get out some bags, some peaks, but don't forget to be safe, be prepared, and don't become tomorrow's rescue story. Back to you guys. We'll see about that weather forecast. Whoever comes up with that is held responsible for what happens this weekend. So awesome. So let's get on to the last set of sponsors and then we'll get on finally to Jeff.

[01:06:48] Jeff's patiently awaiting drinking like seven different wines because he's just like, I've had enough. Let's get on to me. Yeah. He's moved from the straw to the hose. Yeah. He's got the box. He's got the box mounted on the wall. Big valve on the hose. At this moment. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Little gin in the bathtub. Yeah. Put your, put your, put your thing on low and you'll hear the slurping. Nice. So discover Camp Catskill in Tanninsville, your ultimate hiking store.

[01:07:15] Find top quality gear, apparel, and accessories for all your outdoor adventures. Our expert staff is to help every hiker from beginners to seasoned pros. They also carry a unique variety of Catskill souvenirs and gifts. Visit us online at campcatskill.co or in the store to gear up for your next journey. Adventure starts at Camp Catskill. Also embark on a transformative journey with another summit.

[01:07:40] Another summit is dedicated to serving veterans and first responders with free outdoor activities. Activities like walks in nature, paddling, hiking, and even backpacking. Join our supportive community to rejuvenate in nature's embrace. Experience commodity, adventure, and healing at no cost. Take your next step with another summit and ascend to new heights of resilience and joy. Apply today on another summit.org. All right, so let's get on to the guest of the night. Let's go!

[01:08:11] So tonight, Jeff Lewis joins us to talk about his hike on the Appalachian Trail and also his new book that is coming out in September called Midlife Hike This. Now, we talked about this before. It kind of probably has to do with the midlife crisis. And where, I have to say, most of the listeners here, Tad, are probably within that age to have a midlife crisis. Yeah, well, I see broadly defined.

[01:08:41] It's 40 to 65. And according to our fact checkers at Google AI, 45 to early 50s is kind of the meat of that bandwidth. So I'm an early bloomer. An early bloomer. So Jeff, once again, it's great to have you on the show. Welcome to the show. We can't wait to hear your story. Thank you. My pleasure. Yeah.

[01:09:11] So how about we start it off? Give a little background about yourself. You know, go all out. You can go when you were a kid to up now and such. Yeah. So I grew up in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains. We still haven't decided how we're going to call it yet. But grew up in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains in southern Ohio, fairly close to Hocking Hills State Park. I don't know if you've ever heard of that or had any guests on there.

[01:09:39] It's like where it was Grandma Gatewood's favorite place to be. It was like her happy place. Absolutely gorgeous. You would never believe that it's in southern Ohio, which is fantastic. So I grew up very much where the outdoors was a part of my life. I'm very fortunate to have parents that thought it was important that we not just spent time outdoors in our day-to-day locally, but we went to national parks. I think I went to almost 40 states before I was maybe 16.

[01:10:07] I mean, I was just very lucky where the outdoors was a big part of my life. So fast forward to go through college and get to that point where a lot of 20-somethings, early 20-somethings get to where it's like, well, I'm in debt. I don't have health insurance. I better get a job. So I went and got a job with a nonprofit that was – they were courting me pretty aggressively to join the team. So I did. I said I'd give it six months.

[01:10:37] Six months turned into three years. I got a job opportunity in Pennsylvania outside of Reading in Berks County and did that for three years, then got an opportunity in Baltimore. At this point, I thought, you know, we'll do Baltimore for maybe two years and I'm done. Like I did this early career thing. I want to live my dream. I want to do something. Two years turned to three, turned to six, turned to ten.

[01:11:02] And so at this point, I'm 16 years into a career that I said I was going to do for six months. I didn't – that's the thing. I didn't hate the career. I really liked it. I got to work with amazing people. I got to meet very philanthropic, very kind individuals who wanted to help causes. And I worked with a youth-serving organization and a lot of people passionate about young people having the right start.

[01:11:29] But at a certain point, I realized that I needed to listen to a part of me that has been screaming at me for at least 16 years, probably 20 years, probably when I was in college being a knucklehead. And I finally said, you know what, I need to try what I think I'm capable of doing, whatever that happens to be. And I'll flashback for a second as it relates to the AT.

[01:11:59] I used to go to a summer camp when I was a kid. And one year, two of my favorite counselors weren't there that summer. And I was like, well, where are they? And someone told me they're doing something called a through hike of the Appalachian Trail. I had no idea what that was. But I knew if these two badass guys were willing to give up a summer at camp to go do this thing that I didn't even understand, it must be pretty awesome.

[01:12:26] And so I started researching it a little bit and reading books. And that kind of started the fire in my belly. That's when I was like, one day I'm going to do that thing. So back to almost present day. A couple years ago, I pulled the trigger. I put a date on the calendar. I said, this is my last day with this career that I'm in. Because the very next day, I'm going to Georgia and I'm going to hike the AT.

[01:12:54] And that gets us up to about 15, 16 months ago. But I'm sure we'll get into all the rest of the fun stuff throughout the course of the evening. But yeah, I hiked the AT for five months. Had a terrible experience after the trail. And that's one of the pieces I put in the book that I thought was so important is most hiking stories or adventure stories or memoirs, they end at the pinnacle. They end at the victory moment.

[01:13:23] And for anyone that's done a long trail or a big, big adventure, the gal who went from California to Hawaii in a rowboat. I mean, you can't just come back to society and fit back in. It just doesn't happen. So I wanted to make sure people heard the raw story about the uncomfortable and kind of scary situation that I'd put myself in trying to reintegrate into society.

[01:13:53] And then a book came out of it. And now I'm on a podcast with these two goobers and having a great day. You're calling a goober here. I was going to say, that's a goober. Nice. That sounds like a good old 1980s insult. So Jeff, you talk about reentering society. Our listeners know, but I'm just going to throw it out for you. I have two daughters. My oldest, they're both out of college. I'm proud to say that I got them through college debt-free.

[01:14:23] And my oldest daughter is entering year three, living as a dirtbag rock climber out of the back of her Subaru Crosstrek when she's in the States and in a tent when she's abroad. But when I pick her up at the airport, when she comes back to town to visit her folks, she goes through this whole routine like she's in the space shuttle reentering society.

[01:14:51] And one of the things she wants to make clear to her mother, my wife and I, is that she lives in a world where sunrise and sunset are the two most important parts of the day. Noon, one o'clock, five o'clock, that means nothing to her. Time, other than maybe temperature, it's sunrise, sunset. So what you say totally resonates with me.

[01:15:17] And if there ever comes a point in time where she does give up her life as a dirtbag rock climber and decide to throw an anchor down someplace and hang out someplace for a while, maybe I'll give her a copy of your book so she can read that chapter on how to get through those rapids when you hit the beach again.

[01:15:44] And, you know, that's good on her too. I mean, that's, that's awesome. I, so many people, so many folks that live the dirtbag life for their, in their twenties or even beyond, you know, society frowns about them, but society sucks. Society's not happy. Society's broke and sad and they hate their job and they wish they could do that. Who made these rules? Who made these rules that you need to work five days a week, nine to five, 35 hours.

[01:16:14] And maybe if you're lucky, you get to punch out at age 65. Who made those rules? Where's it written that you have to live your life that way? Right. And it does go back to the industrial revolution, the origins of the work week. But yeah, I'll say that I instilled in both of my kids. And my domesticated child does work in an area where she does take time off. You know, she'll work a week, won't work a week as a registered nurse.

[01:16:44] So she gets plenty of time off and travel. And, but like I said, the older one, the feral child, if you will. Um, I've learned now when people like a couple of years ago, somebody said to me, gee, Tad, I really would have thought your daughter would have been more ambitious. Than climbing mountains. Yeah. And living out of her car. And so this, this fellow just got done telling me at the age 66 that he and his wife just started on their bucket list.

[01:17:10] And so I responded to him maybe too abruptly and rudely, but I said to him, Neil, you just got done telling me that you waited until age 66 to start your bucket list. My kid started hers at age 24. So, yeah. So I'm interested to hear your story. I'll stop talking. I'm going to lean back. I'm foolish to Coke and let it roll. So you're, you're Jeffrey, Jeffrey.

[01:17:39] Jeffrey, is it Jeffrey or Jeffrey? It's, uh, it's, it depends on, I was bluey for so long. I forgot what my government name was, but I go by Jeff, but it's Jeffrey. Okay. So your, your company strategic advisory LLC, you want to tell us about that? And then we can, uh, go in on how successful it was and then how you decided to be like, fuck this. I'm going on the AT.

[01:18:08] So I, I heard that strategic advisory LLC is very important actually. Well, I, whoever told you that listened to them and have them tell all their friends and go to the website and book a consulting, uh, a consultation and I'll, I'll take their money happily to help them out. Um, but no, uh, it comes back to the, uh, Tad, what you mentioned, the analogy of the rocket

[01:18:34] ship coming back in through the atmosphere of really a good friend of mine, actually the guy who designed the cover of my book, he used that exact same analogy. He was out on a three week, uh, three week rafting trip on the grand Canyon. And he said he got home and he was just so like, it just didn't feel real. Like he, he was alive for three weeks and now he's going back to this thing that just feels so fake. And he said, his friend called him and asked him, you know, how, how's he doing?

[01:19:03] And he says, I feel like I'm just trying not to burn up upon re-entry. And that's, that's exactly how it feels. Cause you're, you're in the heavens and in, in with the gods, you know, whatever you're doing, whatever your happy place is. And you've got to come back to this society in this world that frankly, isn't, it's, it's not real. It's not how we were. Yeah. Like it's, I, I was telling a friend the other day, I, uh, I wrote a little piece,

[01:19:29] uh, about captivity and how, you know, smart animals in captivity in a zoo, you know, the, the big cats, what do they do? They walk in circles. You can see the dirt tracks around their cages because they lose their minds because they're not built for that. They're built to be free and to hunt and to explore and no, no fences. And I don't, it's, it's kind of strange.

[01:19:55] I think that humans, arguably the most intelligent mammal, or at least most intelligent up there with the most intelligent creatures that were built for these cages that we build ourselves. And, but all that to say, uh, I don't know that I'm the best person to tell how to come back from a big adventure like that. Cause I didn't do it very well. Um, I, I went into a pretty dark place and, and I didn't really want to talk about it and

[01:20:22] didn't want to admit it for the longest time because I, I've been pretty successful in life as far as what LinkedIn says or what, you know, what people that are, uh, are playing the game. Um, nothing wrong with the game. Just, I didn't fit in when I got back and I had a really hard time. And so it was very intentional about meeting with friends and, uh, my former board members

[01:20:47] and just people in my network just to talk and just try to force myself back into society unsuccessfully for several months. And where I'm getting at with this is there were, there were great people who offered me jobs and I was like, I can't go back to that. I can't go back to, you know, 40, 50, 60 hours a week answering emails for a living. I just can't do it. Not now at least. Um, and one of the individuals I met with, uh, was running a nonprofit.

[01:21:14] It was pretty new to the nonprofit world had been in business development in the for-profit world for the longest time. And he's like, he's like, man, I just need help fundraising. Can you come on and help just raise some money? Um, and I was like, I, I don't really want to do that. But through the conversation, what came out was I finally said, can I be honest with you? And he's like, yeah. I said, you don't have a fundraising problem. You've got a leadership problem. You've got a structure problem.

[01:21:40] And so many organizations think it's, they're just chasing the dollar all the time where if you build the right systems, the money, it shows up. If you help enough people, you don't have to worry about money. You just need to connect people and build structures where build funnels and, and, and get the right people involved because people, people give to people. People are attracted to people. It's not always the calls. It's not always the organization.

[01:22:06] What happened is after probably three different lunches with this guy, he said, all right, I hear what you're saying. What do you charge for, to put this in place? And I was like, well, I don't know. I'll get back to you on that one. And so I went and ran some numbers and just talked to some friends who were in consulting world and came back to him with a, with proposal and a price. He said, let's do it. Let's go.

[01:22:32] And then within a month or two later, I had another friend reach out and said, Hey, I heard what you're doing. Can you do that for me? And I was like, well, sure. And so at that point, you know, a few months in, I thought, well, I'll start a company. Um, so I incorporated a strategic advisory and I'm having a lot of fun with it because I get to, I get to really help people solve problems that they didn't even know they had

[01:22:57] sometimes, but also, and it might be selfish, but it's just, it's, I think it's more true to who I am. I'm able to protect my time and focus on the high value activities where I can help people rather than just punching a clock and doing a job for 40 plus hours a week. I can goddamn corporate America. That's what it is. Yeah. You do it for the self and your, and the people, you know, it's just, I'm hung up on where Jeff

[01:23:23] said, um, uh, solving problems that people didn't know that they had. Right. You said that, right. That's what you do. Yeah. Well, the people that they have, they think they have some, they have a problem, but the problem they're looking at isn't it's, it's usually the symptom that they're looking at, you know, it's not the disease. Yeah. It's not the thing that's causing the symptom. And, you know, I spent 16 years in nonprofit leadership and fundraising and, and I made

[01:23:53] a lot of mistakes and I did things the wrong way a lot, many, many times for years. And it, and so what I'm able to do is offer them my experience and, and suggestions rather than just go in and fix everything for them. And just like, well, if I were you, here's what I would do. And, and people, I've been very pleasantly surprised. They're very happy to say, Hey, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll bring you on to help with this project.

[01:24:20] And if I don't have to go through all the crap that you had to go through up. Yeah. I'd love to have you on the team. So it's been a lot of fun. Um, I'm a, I'm a serial hobbyist. I always have six things on the table that I'm looking at at one time. So I knew I didn't want to go all in on one particular thing, but by doing this consulting gig, I'm able to help some people, as you said, solve problems they didn't know they

[01:24:47] had, but, but also still go on some fun adventures and still give back to the hiking and trail community and the outdoor community. Um, I'm still able to play some music here and there and, uh, just try to be more aligned with who I've become over the years, instead of trying to fit into a mode that never really felt right. So that sounds like a successful career. Now, what made you be like, you know, screw this.

[01:25:17] I'm going to hop on the AT and ditch everything that I have worked hard for and just fucking walk for 2,160 miles. So I'd been thinking about it for a while and I'd been in the same. Like for most of my career, it'd been three years in one position promoted to the next one, promoted to the next one, promoted to the next one. And I was in the same role. It started shortly before COVID, but then through COVID things were weird.

[01:25:47] So I was always, I always had something to do and always a new challenge. But as we came out of that, I realized I was feeling, I was happy with the work we were doing. I had an incredible team, but the team was so successful that I felt like they didn't need me anymore. I felt like I was, I was just steering the ship. They were doing all the work and, uh, which I was grateful for. They're amazing people. But I realized a couple of things.

[01:26:13] One, I'm kind of in the way, like someone else needs this opportunity that I currently have. And I don't want to do the next thing that my career path was taking me toward. And I'll tell you a quick little story. I went to a national conference for our organization, um, down in Orlando, Florida, and me and my close work friend were there. We brought our wives down and we're there the weekend before the conference starts. And we're hanging out at the lazy river in the pool.

[01:26:42] And the day before the conference starts, all these people start coming into the conference and they're all 10 to 20 years older than me. And, and they all like, you could just tell my wife even said it. She was like, wow, that guy looks like he works for your organization. And I was like, yeah, he does because he does. And I realized that the people that were walking into that, that conference were good people,

[01:27:10] but they were, that was not who I wanted to be in 10 years. And if I didn't make a change, that's exactly who I was going to be in 10 years. And so it was like, right then this was May of 2024. Like all the indecision that I've been wrestling with was crystal clear. It was like, I'm done a year from now. I will not be doing this. I'm not going to abandon ship. I'm going to make sure the transition smooth. I'm going to finish what I promised, but I've got to be, I've got to be true to myself.

[01:27:38] I've got at least, even if I fail, not just the AT, but starting a business or traveling the country or doing something wild, I need to try, owe it to myself to, to, to give myself the opportunity to fail. And if I fail, so what? I'll try again and I'll fail better next time. Like I just, I've got to do the thing. So I spent that next, I guess, 10 months, um, planning my exit and it fortunately it worked

[01:28:08] out pretty well and got my successor in place. I go into the details in the book, not, not in super detail, but it kind of tell you the full story. But in short, I realized that I need to, I need to give myself the opportunity to do this and to sing the song. I know I can sing.

[01:28:29] And so April 1st, 2025, uh, went to Georgia, stepped foot on Springer and yeah, that's the thing. When I told people the date, they're like, is this a joke? Like you're really, you're going to screw with us on this one. But no, April fool's day, this fool hit the trail and 157 days later, uh, stood on top of a ton. Katahdin and it's like, this isn't like, look how great I am. It's anyone can do this.

[01:28:57] Um, it's, it's the, it's illness or injury are the two things that take people off trail. If, if your mind, if your mindset is good and you know, like you're going to reach Katahdin, anyone can do it. Um, and, and I never had a doubt. It was just, it was harder than I thought it would be for in a number of ways, but yeah, it was, uh, it's, uh, last thing I'll say, and I'll give you guys a chance to chat, but

[01:29:24] people would ask me when I got back, you know, what was the hardest part? And I was like, well, this day sucked and this was garbage, but really the hardest part it's cliche, but it's the very first step. It's not the first step on trail, but it's saying, I'm going to do this. The data's on the calendar. Everyone knows my family knows my boss knows my, my friends know, and I'm going to do it. And by them knowing they're holding me accountable, like I'm going to blow my life up. I better do this thing. I said I was going to do. Yeah.

[01:29:54] Not now when, so, all right, Jeff, um, before we get into the story behind the trail name bluey, I want to know, uh, are you familiar with Jack Kerouac's quote? I know a few of them, but go ahead. Where he says, uh, because in the end, you won't remember the time you spent working in an office or mowing your lawn, climb that goddamn mountain.

[01:30:24] I love it. Yeah. I love it. It's, have you heard that before? I hadn't heard that quote. Not that specific one, but I love it. And that's part of it. And, and we'll talk about this. Uh, I'm sure. But, you know, I, I lost a very dear friend, uh, in his forties at 43 years old. Um, it's very unexpectedly. And he and I had always talked about, he was going to retire at 49 years old and we were going to hike the AT and like, that's, we talked about it for years and he couldn't

[01:30:53] lose it because he's not here with us anymore. And losing Eric is his name and losing Eric at such a young age was just like, he, he thought he was doing the right thing by putting in the days and the hours and the weeks and the months and the years so that he could be free, but climb the damn mountain. Right. Like no one on their deathbed sits there and says like, man, I probably could have worked

[01:31:21] a few more hours on average every week. Like, yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. Died with a little more money in the bank. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Absolutely. Fuck that. So fuck that. All right. So let's, let's talk about the name bluey or your trail name. How did that come about? This is a fun one. So I, I, I'll be honest with you before I got on trail, I thought trail names were a little silly. I was like, what, what's the point?

[01:31:51] You know, and they're all dumb and like they're, they're goofy stuff. They're also just like one thing that happened one day and, and now that's, that's their identity. But I wasn't against having one. And I was just like, if one fits, I'll take it. And if it doesn't, whatever, I'm Jeff, Jeff from Maryland. Let's go. Yeah. So I think I was about 12 days in, uh, got into Franklin, North Carolina, and there's a great outfitter there. Can I give a shout out?

[01:32:18] Uh, outdoor 76 and Franklin, North Carolina. Wonderful people. It's a great place. They've got a little hiker lounge downstairs. They take care of the through hikers. They've got great gear. They've got a bar attached to it and they have, it's a lot of fun. Um, so they did, I was there on a weekend on a Saturday and they did a hiker trivia night with a hiker cookout, free food, free trivia. We, uh, we bought our own beers, but had a great time.

[01:32:45] And at the end of the night, well, I've, I've got to tell you one, one detail ahead of time before I got on trail, I bought a Patagonia R one zip hoodie. You know, they're great for whether you're a runner or a hiker there. It's a great midway layer, but the thing was obnoxiously blue. It was like beyond blue, but it was on sale. And so it's like, well, I get it now. I'm going to be in the woods. Who cares? Um, so I'm wearing this ridiculous blue hoodie at this hiker trivia cookout thing.

[01:33:15] And after the trivia, we're, we're hanging out. I'm talking to the shop owner. We're having beers. And earlier that day at the outfitter, they had this beautiful burnt orange hoodie, the exact same thing, but in a color that I really liked. And so it was on sale, but I was talking to the shop owner and I was like, come on, man. Why don't you give it to me for like 50% off or 70% off or a hundred percent off. Come on. And we're having a, it was fun, but I either I wore him down or he was just tired of listening

[01:33:45] to me. And he was just like, all right, man, here's the deal. He calls his daughter over. She's eight years old, cutest thing. And he said, all right, if you can beat her in rock, paper, scissors, then you got the hoodie. And this conversation's over. And I was like, okay. And he's like, but if she beats you, she picks your trail name and whatever it is, that's your trail name. And I was like, let's go, let's do it. So we played best of fives.

[01:34:15] I'm guessing you're going to figure out how this ends, but in real time, we know the ending. We know it. Yeah. It's kind of obvious. So what we want to know, did you go down like three, three straight or did it go, did it go to the fifth round? No, no. I was up one. I was up two. Then I was back up to one. And then the eight year old comes in. Right. Oh yeah. So she was it on. Oh yeah. Yeah. And we had like, there was, I don't know, maybe 30 hikers in the building and they're all gathered around their cheer and people.

[01:34:44] I mean, it was, it was a scene. It really was. They were cheering on it. Oh yeah. Right. Vegas odds makers are calling in. Right. Yeah. We had a bookie behind the bar. It was, it was good, but, um, but no, so she beats me, um, and she didn't hesitate. She was just like, bluey, you're bluey. Oh yeah. So tell me the, the last, the last round, I'm guessing hiker versus an eight year old. I bet you picked rock. I did.

[01:35:12] And she picked paper and she's an eight year old. That's what was safe for her is the paper. So she beat you rock, paper, scissors. Cause like a true hiker, you picked like a rock. She goes, all right. So you, you, uh, you wear the trail name and, uh, that's what stuck with you the whole way. Well, it, I thought about losing it. I really did. Cause I hated it. I thought it was such a lame name. And if some of the, I didn't really, I wasn't really part of a tramway at that point yet.

[01:35:40] I had some people I'd been hiking with and, you know, early on in the trail, you hike with a lot of people. Um, and most of the people who knew me at that point, they were all the bluey. How you doing bluey? Uh, that night and just kind of giving me shit a little bit. But the next morning, uh, I was hiking with a friend, uh, and we're maybe two or three miles outside of Franklin and the shop owner and his daughter are out for a trail run and they pass us on trail. And she's just like, Oh my God, it's bluey.

[01:36:10] And she runs up and gives me a big old hug. And I was like, I can't not have this name at this point. Like it's, it's meant to be. Yeah. So the guys and gals around me started calling me bluey and that's what stuck. Wow. Is there, is there any people like when they're on the Appalachian trail, don't have a trail name and they're just like, you're like, you like come up and like, Hey, I'm Jeff. And they're like, what the fuck? Jeff, that's lame. Like, what is your real name? No, absolutely.

[01:36:37] There's some people who are just like, they just are against it. They're just like, I am Bob or I am Jim and that's fine. Whatever. I mean, that's the cool thing about hikers is that they're all just real people and they're all out there for themselves, but more just to connect with the community and with nature. And, and I don't know, there's just not, I didn't meet many pretentious people. Like if someone's like, well, I'm, there was a hiker named just Joe.

[01:37:06] Like, I guess he got tired of saying I'm just Joe so long that his trail name became just Joe. Um, so there are people that just keep a, keep a government name, but I think, uh, most people, I don't know what the percentage is, but I'd say 95 plus percent of, of through hikers on any long trail end up with a trail name. Interesting. And I, I'm not, you know, once again, I just don't see, I mean, I haven't met anybody that was just like, Hey, my name's likely like you said, Bob.

[01:37:34] And then, but I've always met people who have to have the trail name. So it'd be, it'd be interesting to be like, Hey, my name's my name's. I mean, Tad is, is, is kind of like, like somebody would think that was a formal or a trail name, but yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah, that, or, or stop like Stanley, my, my, my real name is Stanley. So be like, Hey, I'm Stanley. They're like, what the, that is lame as heck. And Danny Davis gave me a trail name. What'd he get? Oh yeah. He gave me two trail names.

[01:38:03] I'll give you one of them. A tad too much. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. If you, if you hike with me, you know why. Okay. A tad too much of talking. Yeah. When I, when I run into people on the trail, I got a trail bits. Yeah. So I can go on. But as we all know on the podcast, I did notice Stosh that when I wasn't on the average episode length was about an hour shorter. Yeah.

[01:38:33] Just throw that out there. Yeah. I'm good for an hour of nonsense. I think this one might be a tad too much. That might be. Oh, hey, hey, boys. You just become red. Yeah. But hey, you know, what's with trail names, uh, what's just so absurd, oddly, like inversely absurd on trail is when you meet someone and you know their trail name and then you get to town and you check into a hotel or something and they're like, Hey, I'm George Thompson.

[01:39:03] And you're like, what? No, you're not. First off, you're no way you're George, but no, you're, you know, spigot or whatever his name is. Right. Like, like, like a week down the road, you actually know their name and you're just like, what? That doesn't fit you. So, you know, thinking of spit, like fit you. I mean, Sean, you said you had a Trambley Long Island hiker. So tell us about your time with Sean. How much did you, how much time did you spend along with time with Sean Long Island hiker?

[01:39:33] Yeah. So, uh, PMA, PMA. Sorry. Exactly. Cause I think when I, when we were talking over email, uh, early on picking dates and stuff for the podcast, I, I wrote his name as S E A N because I'd never spelled Sean before cause I've never called him Sean. He's always been PMA, which stands for, you've had him on the show, you know, it stands for positive mental attitude. But here's the interesting thing about PMA is I didn't actually like connect, connect

[01:40:00] with him until we were at, uh, boots off hostel, which is in, um, Watoga dam in Tennessee. So it's, I mean, several hundred miles in, or at least a few hundred miles in at that point. And the crazy part is I think I had probably seen him, but I never talked to him because he's a lot of fun on the podcast and he's a lot of fun to get him one-on-one, but in groups PMA is like, he likes to keep to himself. He especially early on.

[01:40:29] He's very, he's not reclusive. He's an amazing person, but he's just not the guy who's going to go around introducing himself to everybody. And so I think I remember him camping. Like when we were at shelters, he'd camp a couple hundred yards away. He was very private. He wanted his space or he would camp before the shelter or right after. The shelter is the next water source. But when I met him, like actually got to know him and he's like, Oh yeah, Bluey.

[01:40:57] I remember you from three weeks ago or two weeks ago. And when it hit me, like, yeah, I probably had been around him. How many other amazing humans had I not connected with? Because I just, I was, I mean, you know, the cliche hike your own hike. I was hiking my own hike and I was just, if someone was with me, I'd hike with them. And if they weren't, I'm hiking by myself. But it was interesting right around the time.

[01:41:22] Well, when, when I met him there at, uh, Watoga, I was pretty much in the early stages of a tramway at that point. There were like three or four of us that were three, almost maybe five of us at that point that were together more than we weren't. We weren't like an official tramway yet. We were just hiking together. And shortly after that, we got to Damascus. Um, and I took a zero. I was like, guys, I, I, I want to be alone. I just, I love you all, but I'm taking an alone zero.

[01:41:51] And, uh, PMA had met up or had kind of stuck with the rest of the crew at that point. And we were separated for maybe another week or two. And when we reconnected at trail days in Damascus, um, which is like the big AT festival that they do like 25,000 hikers and former hikers come back to this tiny town of a couple thousand people and having a huge festival. I mean, trail days is it's amazing. It's a whole weekend celebration and kind of a reunion of sorts.

[01:42:18] But when I got to trail days, like PMA was a permanent fixture with the tramway that I had been a day or two behind because I took a zero. And it was the interesting part was he didn't replace me. It's just like, he was just there. And then when I caught back up, I was just there. And I use the analogy in the book of like a slinky dog. That's kind of how our tramway was like, you know, some people get a day or two ahead and a couple of people behind, then you're together.

[01:42:44] And then, you know, just, and we did that for the next 1500 miles until the end, like by the, uh, by probably, uh, probably Pennsylvania PMA and I were hiking together a lot. Like sometimes just the two of us for a week plus at a time. And we really bonded. And, you know, I, I love every, every member of my tramly dearly. Like these, these people, I never served in the military, but I understand why, why our

[01:43:13] veterans have bonds they have with the people they served with, because you see people at their highest highs and their lowest lows, and you live those experiences with them and you really get to know who they are and you get to love them in a deeper way. Um, but I feel like PMA and I connected very, very well, like very, very close. And yeah, but by the time we got to the whites, uh, or got through the whites into Maine, there were seven of us at that point and we hiked every day together.

[01:43:43] Sometimes we were a few miles apart, but we saw each other every day. We summited together on, on September 4th, uh, it was just, it was so special. Um, that's crazy. Is there a little ceremony that your tramley has when you come together? Like a wedding ceremony? Is it a ceremony? Is it a frailty ceremony? Hi, uh, hi! Until death does us part, or Katahdin's part? Part of that is classified. And part of it is, even on this podcast, some of it's not even appropriate. No, I'm kidding, but... That's all right.

[01:44:14] No, we... Nobody listens, so you can speak freely, Jeff. True. No, the summit itself, the final six and a half miles of the AT from Katahdin Springs at the base of the mountain to Baxter, uh, Baxter Point, Baxter Peak, Baxter Peak, uh, which is the top where the sign is, where the Katahdin sign is. That entire thing is a ceremony. It's just, I mean, I've got chills right now talking about it. It's... Every 10 minutes, I was fighting back tears.

[01:44:43] It was just, it's so special. You've just spent five months for us. Some people do it in three. Some people, Tara Dower did it in 40 days. She's a monster, but... Wow. But, uh, it's just such a... It's such a build-up at the end, and I gotta tell you, it doesn't disappoint. It's one of the most spectacular mountains I've ever climbed, because it just, it almost doesn't belong in Maine. It just sticks out of the swamp.

[01:45:12] It's just, it's just massive. It's a mile high, and, you know, the ground below, it's 1,000 feet above sea level, and it's just, it's a monument. And you just get to climb this monument, and it's such a spectacular finish. So, yeah, there's, that's a ceremony in itself. And there were a lot of hugs and a lot of tears at the top of the mountain, but it wasn't loud. It was respectful. It was so much spiritual. It was just, it's so special.

[01:45:37] But we, I mentioned earlier in the episode, a couple weeks ago, we got together, the seven of us, plus three or four other friends we'd met along the trail to do the trail magic in Front Royal. And what a reunion that was. I mean, it's just like so special to get to spend time with these people again, who, who just, you love on a, love at a level that you don't, you don't often get in, and especially in a captive society.

[01:46:06] Why is it, why is it you feel that you, you and the others in your tramway clicked? I think because we were, we were so different. I mean, we, we were the same. We had similar values. We all had a love for the outdoors. We all clearly had, I don't think any of us were masochists, but we certainly didn't mind a little bit of pain in order to experience something special.

[01:46:32] But we were, the youngest was 18 and the oldest was 60 and we were everywhere. Wow. Yeah. You know, the tramway itself was two, two girls and five guys. And we were, we all lived in different states. We all had different backgrounds. We all had, we all had different things that we were either walking away from or walking toward. And over the course of 2,200 miles, you get to have very special conversations with other

[01:46:59] humans to get to know, like know their why and know who they really are. And I think that's what made it so, so special. What are the differences? So you, you have this magical and tremendous experience with these enriching people. There's a synergy of amongst the group. When along the way, was it during the through hike or after that you decided it's time to

[01:47:27] write a book and what's the why behind writing the book? So I full disclosure, before I left for Georgia, I came up with the term of midlife hike this because I was telling people there, why are you doing this? And I get to, I don't know. It's a midlife crisis. It's either a 22 year old girlfriend or a 2022 Corvette or a 2200 mile hike. And I think the first two would kill me for sure.

[01:47:56] So I'm going to do the hike. So I came up with this term of midlife hike this. That's, that's my crisis. That's my crisis. That's fantastic. But, but that's, that's my solution to having a crisis. And so I'm, I built my, my Instagram and brand around midlife hike this. And at the time when I first started, I thought I was going to be a vlogger. I thought I was going to be blogging every night and writing, telling people about the story.

[01:48:24] And man, I, I'm so glad that I didn't try that. I did for a couple of days. It's after you hike all day and in dumping rain, and you finally get your camp set up and you get some food in your belly and you crawl in your sleeping bag and you're halfway drive for the first time all day. The last thing you want to do is get on the internet and try to tell someone how great it is. Like some people can do that. Some people are great at that. There's, I'm sure you guys have had guests on your show and you've followed Instagram

[01:48:54] stories and other things. There's a lot of people who are very talented that it wasn't me. And I learned that early on. So I just, I just said, you know what? I'm going to post a few things on Instagram, maybe once a week, just to tell my friends and family that I'm still alive. When I got back, I told you I had a, the post-trail depression is real and it hit me hard and harder than I thought it would. And it scared me. It really scared me. It scared my wife. It scared my friends and my family. I was in a bad spot.

[01:49:24] It really was. And I didn't see an end. I didn't see a way to climb out of the hole. And there were probably three, two or three things that, that helped me recenter myself and get some alignment in my life again. And one was, I remember by probably November, I got home in September, probably by November. My wife was like, like, dude, you need a job. I mean, I was like, we're fine. We've got money. Like we've got savings.

[01:49:54] She's like, no, you're driving me nuts. Like you got to get out of this house. Like you need to go work at REI or something. Just go do something. Um, and so I ended up applying for a job at a ski resort being a lifty. I actually worked in tubing. Um, and not because I needed a full-time job, but just to give me something to do outside with people. And so I worked like weekends. I'd work one or two days a week. Um, but that was super helpful for me. Like really, really helpful.

[01:50:23] Um, the second thing is around that same time, I realized that there were a lot of stories that I didn't document on trail that I didn't want to lose because maybe, you know, one day, 10, 20 years from now, me or someone else might like to hear some of those cool stories. So, uh, I started writing just like a couple paragraphs. Oh, I remember when this happened, that was hilarious. Or this was a really shitty day, or this was great. Um, and a couple paragraphs became a couple pages.

[01:50:52] And then another story would pop in my head and I'd write that down. And then I was like, oh, I can kind of craft this into a, a tale of what happened. And so then there was a chapter and then there was three and there was six and there was 15. And I got to a point where I was like, you know, I've told half the story. I may as well just tell the other half and put it all together and put a bow on it. So I spent, Ooh, I don't know, a long time, 12, 14 hour days every day, a labor of love,

[01:51:21] just like, I couldn't wait to write down all the emotions and all the feelings and all the things that I'd never heard anyone talk about, uh, about a long trail before or about a through hike before. I mean, a lot of it, I, I'm not unique. I'm not special. There's, it's all the same story, but I tried to focus on the emotional honesty of it rather than just like, it was beautiful and it was hard, but I finished. But there's a, the buildup ahead of time, the decision to let go of something that was

[01:51:49] comfortable and was winning according to everything that I'd known in life, but let go of that for something that was, uh, not dangerous, but scary, scary in the best way. Um, I had to let go of comfort and do this thing. And then again, with the crash coming back, like I, I want people to know that there's a price that you have to pay when you're, when you let it all go, when you just say you like the fuse and let

[01:52:19] your, and watch your life blow up and come back to it and try to fit in. You won't fit in. I promise you some people can, maybe young people can, maybe retirees can. I couldn't because it was so transformational. And I just, I wanted to get that out and I wanted people to understand a, that there's a price to pay, but B it's worth it. It really is worth it. You're coming 20 years back into the game, you know, you're 20 years into the game and then you leave the game and then you come back.

[01:52:48] Like there's a, there's a, there is a price to pay, you know, like, like fucking like Michael Jordan, you know, I'll get this. Michael Jordan plays basketball, fricking dominates, goes to baseball, sucks bad. And then comes back to basketball and he's okay. You know, he cannot come back at the top of his game. So, I mean, that, that, you know, and that's, you know, it's, it scares the shit out of me, you know, dad, like, like, I want to, I want to do this. I want to be like, let's, let's fucking do this.

[01:53:18] But I'm like, I can't come back. Well, that's, so what I want to know, Jeff is you've just kind of like, you know, done the fly over here at 40,000 feet, right? 40, 40. Yeah. At 40,000 feet. You really, you, you told us that it was hard. It was really hard. It was hard on you. You went out and got a job as a lifty.

[01:53:42] Um, but what was it that made it so hard coming, coming back? What is it that you looked around that you saw and what you thought about what you saw that made it so hard? Because, you know, people go away on a week or a two week vacation all the time. I have a good friend of mine, college professor. Uh, he's a world-class philosopher.

[01:54:07] I'm proud to say that his gig is once every five years, he goes on sabbatical and he and his family go to some real interesting places. And then when his year's up, he comes back and, you know, pulls on his, uh, philosophy pants and shirt and walks into the classroom or the college campus and does his thing for the next four years, what was it for you that you looked around and you said, whatever it

[01:54:37] was, what the fuck? I mean, you know, why, why am I doing this? Why do I have to be, what is it that's going through your head that made it so hard for you to reintegrate with the society that we've constructed that everybody's born into? And they're, you know, basically we talk about freedom in this country, but nobody gets to choose, right? For the most part, how they live their life. Most of us, you know, you go to public school, you're told to go to college, you're told to

[01:55:07] get out of college, pay down your student loans, buy a house, buy a new car, at least a new car every few years, you know, look forward to that vacation every six months or so until you turn 65. And if you're lucky and if you ate right, you don't have a heart attack or a stroke or don't get cancer and eventually you get to retire for a few years before they send you to the nursing home.

[01:55:33] Well, Tad, that's a little morbid, don't I think? No, no, it's honest. It's exactly right. But it's like, you just said it, you said it all. Well, that's why one of my kids is a dirtbag rock climber. I was going to reference her. Because I honestly, you know, when my daughters were young and they would come visit me at the office, I would refer to my office as the cage. I was going to say the cage. I like the present cage. Yeah.

[01:56:01] And eventually they said, dad, why do you always call your office the cage? And I said, look at me. I sit in this room with the door closed all day. There's a window, floor to ceiling window. And I see people walk by just like I'm an animal at the cage and people are walking by and looking at me, I'm sitting behind a desk. I'm not like the bear or lion, you know, doing circles inside of my cage. But I'm like you. One of the things I like to tell people when they ask me what I do for a living,

[01:56:29] I am an email traffic controller. That's what I do for a living. I manage incoming and outgoing email. That's how I make my living. And so many of us do. So what was it like? What was it like, Jeff? You come back, you look around. What are you saying? What's the struggle inside of you? I'll start with saying not everybody's the same. And that's great.

[01:56:57] Because if I used to tell my team in my former life, you know, if two people on this team are the same, one of you isn't necessary. And it's not to be mean, but it's like we need diversity of thought, of culture, of all. We need different ideas. We need different ways of solving problems. And not just solving problems, but different ways of loving humans. We need different perspectives.

[01:57:23] Um, I, I, I've known, I spent my first 20 some years learning that I'm someone who thrives on not instability or insecurity, but I thrive on the unknown. And I was like, I don't know. Like a risk, not, not a stupid risk, but like a calculated risk. Like some people say, what if it doesn't work out? I'm like, well, what if it does? Like if it does, it's really cool.

[01:57:53] Um, and if it doesn't, it's not the end of you. It's just that thing didn't work out. So try another thing. So I spent my first half of my life, uh, exercising that muscle. And then I was broke and needed insurance and I was in debt and I was playing bars around town, making, you know, a couple hundred bucks here and there enough where I wasn't getting kicked out of the shitty apartment I was in.

[01:58:21] Um, and I was like, I need to do something with my life because that's what we're told to do. Right. I mean, Stash, you said it, we're, we're supposed to, or I think you both said it, like we're supposed to go to school and get a job and start a family and buy a house and buy a car every few years. And you do this and do this and do this. And then at a certain age, you're allowed to retire. And then if you're lucky, you don't die immediately. And I, but I, I fell into the trap and the trap led to the cage.

[01:58:49] Um, and I, I didn't realize I was in a cage for a long time. And when I, gosh, you said so many things, I'm not sure the best point is to say here, but, um, I, I knew that the life I was living was not one that was one that was really joyous and as full as it could be.

[01:59:16] And I don't know how many trips we get around this planet, or I don't know how many chances we get to be a human on earth. And that's, I don't need to know, but I know I have this one and I know that what I need, what lights me up the most and what makes me feel like I'm doing it at least better than how I could be doing it is when I do things that, that foster joy and peace and friendship

[01:59:45] and love and connection with nature. And I wasn't getting that in my life. I got some of it, but I needed a chance to get out of the cage for a second. And when I did, I tasted freedom and I tasted that there's a different way of doing it. And not everybody needs to be a dirt bag, but some of us are dirt bags and we should, we should be okay with that.

[02:00:11] You know, some of us, some, some of us are, some of us are Republicans. We need to be okay with that. And some of us are Catholic and be okay with that. And you can, I mean, we're all different and there's nothing wrong with anything there. Sorry, Stasch, you can edit that if you need. I have nothing, no hate against Catholics or anybody. No, what I'm saying is we're all different and it's a blessing. Like we're all, it takes all kinds. My grandma used to say that. My grandma was one of the kindest, most loving people.

[02:00:38] And she hung out with everybody of every background and thrived in it. And my point is that maybe I'm not a dirt bag, but I'm not, I'm not meant to wear a suit and answer emails for a living. I'm not an email traffic controller. I am, I'm a person who gets fulfillment in very simple things and I'm okay with trying something that doesn't work.

[02:01:04] And the only way you know that it might work is if you try it. And so that's what I did. I unplugged for a while and I tried something. And then when I came back to, I didn't even get back in the cage, but I saw the cage again and I saw those tigers and bears walking circles in their, in their cages. And I just, I can't, I absolutely can't do that. There's gotta be another way. I don't need to be the zookeeper, but maybe I just don't belong in the zoo.

[02:01:34] Maybe, maybe I belong doing something else. Yeah.

[02:02:09] I was telling you. I had in my notes app, I would write down some thoughts as I come, you know, where you're hiking for 12, 14 hours a day. So I'd write down thoughts that sounded profound or different or just different ways of thinking about things. And I took a lot of pictures. I think I have like 14,000 pictures over the course of the hike. Hell yeah. And some videos. And then I mentioned Instagram. I post at least once a week, tried to do it twice a week throughout the hike.

[02:02:35] So I didn't really document the hike the way that a rider would. I just did it the way that I was doing. It was important for me to be present. Like that's one of the most important things about enjoying anything in life, especially a through hike. Like so many times I got caught up with, I got to get these miles in, or I got to catch this person, or I got to be at this town by a certain date. And that's not what it's about. It's about being present. And that's what life's about. It's about being present.

[02:03:02] Because otherwise you, you, you wake up one day and it's like, where'd it go? You know, I was, I wasn't there for any of it. I was running around like crazy, but I wasn't there. So I didn't take a lot. I didn't write really on trail. And I didn't during my, you know, my post, my post trail crash. I didn't really write until around the time I started at the ski resort. That was like the first step back into doing something where I had some purpose. And I felt like I was doing something.

[02:03:32] It was simple. I mean, it was just a job. I was just helping people onto a lift or sit on the tube down the hill or whatever, but it made people happy. And I got to be myself and have fun. And I was outside. And so around that time, I started writing down some of the stories and that's when it started. So this, it was very quick. The main content of the book. And I've shared this with some other authors before and they, they want to smack me in the head because they're like, I worked five years on my book. And I was like, well, the content took me about eight weeks.

[02:04:00] I mean, then I polished it for a long time. Like that was much harder process. But as far as the point of it, I just had to sit down and let it out because it was already there. But yeah, it was, uh, I, there, there's a great, a great book by Rick Rubin called the creative act. And I don't know if you've read it or your listeners have, but you haven't pick it up. It's an easy read and it's, it's brilliant. And Rick Rubin of course is the super famous producer.

[02:04:26] He's done, uh, he's done every Tom Petty, Avert brothers. He's done, I think maybe Jay-Z. I mean, he's done like everybody. He's incredible. And his book talks about like the concept is basically that there there's a creative flow in the universe. That's going, it's happening anyway. And artists are fortunate enough to be able to have access to that sometimes. And when you can capture that flow as it comes through, you've got to grab it because

[02:04:56] otherwise it's going to pass or someone else is going to grab it. And I feel like writing might be an art, uh, certainly music is, and, and, you know, painting and lots of things are, but for me, these memories and this, uh, and the concepts I could connect them to through writing the book, they were coming and it was up to me to get them onto the page right then, because I didn't know if they'd come back.

[02:05:22] So I just went all in and spent as many hours as I could every day, just capturing it on paper and then was able to polish it into something I'm, I'm pretty proud of. And, uh, the early readers have been very kind with their compliments and comments about it as well, that it resonates far beyond the hiking community. Nice. Well, then I mean, you're going like all out and stuff like that.

[02:05:47] That's pretty crazy that you didn't like remember, I mean, like red jot down your stuff as you went along, but I mean, not crazy. Like I always like seriously blank out during my hikes and then I come back and like, Oh, Oh, this part and this part and this part. And so, you know, it's, it's not crazy as you say it is like, it's, it's, it's actually pretty normal to bring back those memories that you have.

[02:06:12] And to the jot them down, you know, as you're going along and that you're having these good times, you know, trying to preach about what you had on the trail and stuff. I always try to do that, but nobody understands because none of my, my friends and none of my, you know, family members have a hike. They don't know what the hell I experienced. They don't know that, you know, climbing this little rock face bushwhacking with like trees slapping your face, you know, it's, it's excitement.

[02:06:40] They just, they just like, wow, that's miserable stuff. But no, it's actually phenomenal stuff. It's like, so, you know, I understand that's, that's a pretty good idea. You know, I saw a post the other day where it was, I don't know what platform it was on, but it was something like, uh, you know, after walking for five minutes, your blood pressure starts to drop after 15 minutes, your, you know, heart, I don't know, just all these physical things and emotional things that would happen.

[02:07:06] And it's like, after an hour, you reach a state of relaxation where you can actually start just being present in the moment instead of thinking about all the stuff. And I was like, yeah, absolutely. And after 2200 miles, like you get some pretty, pretty cool stuff that pops into your head and your heart. Jesus. Yeah. I was going to say 10 minutes, an hour. And then somebody talks about 2200 miles, like you do with like the, like with this, with this book.

[02:07:35] So now dear, you talk about afterwards and stuff. What is the main focus of the book? Midlife hike this kind of love that name. That is just a phenomenal name. Well done. Uh, if so in, in the, in the author's note at the beginning, the, the forward, not really a forward, but just like a, the setup at the very beginning of the book. Um, you know, I tell people this isn't a hiking book.

[02:08:00] It's, it's a, it's a, like a personal growth memoir that happened. That is, that is set on the Appalachian trail, but what it really is, is a permission slip. I hope that a reader, when they finish the book, um, I hope they will say, I've got my AT, I've got my Katahdin. And it might not be on the East coast. It could be the PCT. It could be a bicycle trip.

[02:08:30] It could be climbing Mount Kilimanjaro. It could be whatever. It could be reconnecting with my son. I haven't seen in 10 years, whatever the thing is that you need to do to release your soul into joy and happiness and experiencing presence. And, and, and what I think we're here on earth for, which is to truly just experience emotions and live and love. Um, you need to do it. No one's going to tell you today's the day that you get to do that. Like you just got to do it.

[02:08:59] It's a permission slip. I mentioned, I mentioned, uh, you know, my friend Eric who had passed, uh, 43 years old from cancer. He, he did things the way we're supposed to do it according to society. Like he was going to work 30 years and then he was going to take an, up an early pension and retire at 49 years old and play for the rest of his life. Tomorrow's not promised to any of us.

[02:09:25] Like he didn't get that and, and I don't know what my last day is going to be, but I want to make sure today I do the things that, that make me feel alive and make me feel like I'm, uh, that I, I'm doing something for me and for the people I love. And some could argue, you know, walking away from your family for five months plus might not be the best way to love them, but me coming back as a more genuine and authentic person, maybe that is the right way to love them.

[02:09:55] Uh, Oh fricking. Yeah. Yeah. And sharing those insights and that experience with them kind of as the, the, the code or the, uh, password to get them out of that cage that we call life and our modern society. Um, so before we move on, you, you talk about, um, you know, coming up with these ideas and keeping notes and stuff like that.

[02:10:19] It reminds me of this, uh, professor of psychology at Reed college in Portland, Oregon, Alan Nuringer, who, uh, is famous for all of these self experiments that he's done over the years. And one of his self experiments is that he found that he averaged 1.05 ideas per minute

[02:10:48] while moving compared to 0.72 ideas per minute when he was sitting behind the desk. I believe that a hundred percent. Yeah, of course. Yeah. I know. I know some of my best ideas come to me when I'm out on the trail. And so one of the things that I've become fond of doing before I set off on a hike is I'll pull one of these quotes. Often you'll see these quotes in my Instagram posts, but I, I plant that quote in my head

[02:11:18] for a solo hike. And I just kind of like percolate it through my mind as I'm hiking along and what the author or speaker that quote meant and, and what, what it was significant to them at that time when they said it and their life and the circumstances around them and how applicable or not applicable it is at the present time. And it kind of adds a little, um, something other to the hike.

[02:11:44] So one of the other things before we move on in our little outline here, have you ever heard of a fellow by the name of Bill Perkins and a book he wrote called die with zero getting all you can from your money in life? So that was a, yes, I have, I, I own it. I read it. Um, when I got back from trail, uh, there's a really awesome couple who I worked with a lot in my former career.

[02:12:13] They were volunteers and very generous donors and just, just great people. Um, and I reconnected with them when I got back, I just said, Hey guys, I, I'm trying to talk to some people that I admire and respect just to kind of help me figure out what I'm doing in life. And of course, so we went and grabbed lunch and before we ended that, that lunch, uh, they recommended a couple books and one of them was die with zero by Bill Perkins. He said, I think that's where you are in life right now. You need to read this book.

[02:12:41] And so I got on my phone on Amazon, I ordered it right away and read it, I don't know, in a day or two. And what I took away from that was, I mean, it's, it, it marries right into what we were just talking about. So many people, they work their whole lives and save up all this money and they never spend it all. Yeah. And, and it's like, not only did not spend it all, most, most people who retire with a good amount, let's say a million dollars plus they die with more than they retire with.

[02:13:11] And it's like his concept of, you know, the life energy, you're trading life energy for money. Like that's what we do in this society. So at what point are you wasting life energy for something you'll never, ever get to enjoy? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I, damn, that is hits the spot. It's a great book. And you, I'm guessing you've read it, Todd, uh, or tab, sir.

[02:13:35] I have actually not read the book, but I have heard Bill Perkins on a number of podcasts and he's a really exceptional, uh, speaker. And frankly, my take on his book, which again, I haven't read that it's just a lot of self evident shit. Right. But the fact that he puts it in this book, which apparently is easy to understand, comprehend and resonates with people, right? Right.

[02:14:04] Somewhat validates what he's saying is, you know, it's not how much money you die with in the bank or in your brokerage account, because you don't take that into the grave with you. Right. Right. Right. And you don't get to live those memories with your heirs who spend that inheritance. Yeah. So start, you know, start enjoying it now. And it reminds me of a good friend of mine years ago, his mother got cancer.

[02:14:32] Sadly, it was one of these things where it had a really short fuse for her. And when I say short fuse, it was a matter of months. And so my friend John inherits, uh, a significant sum of money from his mother. It was enough money, uh, for him to contemplate retirement at age like 48, 49. Mm-hmm . So he and his wife, they go down to Florida from New York and they go down to Florida. They spend a week at an Airbnb or a bed and breakfast.

[02:15:02] There was no Airbnb back then. So they spend this week at a bed and breakfast. They have a phenomenal time. And as John and his wife are leaving, they say to the owners, oh, we had such a great time. We can't wait to come back. Right. In six months or a year. And the owners say, say to them, well, you better hurry because next week we're putting it on the market for sale. So on the flight back, John and his wife, the whole way back, they're talking about cashing

[02:15:28] in everything they have in New York, selling mom's house, selling their house, taking the inheritance, going to Florida, buying the Airbnb and living it down there. Right. So he comes up, comes back to work with all this enthusiasm, telling me the story. He starts negotiating the deal to buy the place. And there comes a point in time. And his wife was a real number cruncher. She worked for a hedge fund in Manhattan.

[02:15:52] So there comes a point in time where the seller wants right around a million and John and his wife couldn't justify paying that much money. They were $36,000 away from offering what these people wanted to sell it. And so John came to me and he tells me this yada, yada, yada. And he says, what do you think I should do? And I'm like, John, it's only $36,000.

[02:16:21] That's the price of getting out of here while you're still alive. Don't be like your mother. Okay. And John, just think of it this way. You spend that 36,000 now, when you sell it, you're going to get your money back. Okay. So for years, for years, at least once a year, John would call me up and thank me for telling him to spend that extra $36,000. And that's kind of like a Bill Perkins moment. You know? It is. It's buy the ticket, take the ride.

[02:16:51] It all ends anyway. Right? Just do it. Just do it. You know, I, so many times I hate, once again, I always talk about this. Social media is a double-edged sword. It could suck. You could fall into that pit of fricking government, fricking bad one side versus the other. But then it also influences you like, like people like you, Jeff, people like, you know,

[02:17:20] Sean, who just drop everything and go and find themselves, go and find, you know, what they should do for themselves, you know, to, to bring them back to reality, to bring them back to life, instead of just working that nine to five job that kills you, that just fricking destroys every day. You know, I, I have a similar life of just, you know, the corporate America is, is, you know, taken over me.

[02:17:46] But I realized one, I, I think I, I, I resonated with, uh, office space. The office space. I was just thinking, I was just thinking office space. Like, it's seriously, there's this one part, you know, as every, uh, hopefully everybody's seen the movie office space of where he's just like, you know, where's the, uh, the, where's the motivation. I, I work for a company that's the richest in the world and I get shit back. So, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to work my hours and then I'm going to leave.

[02:18:15] And then I'm going to go fucking hike and then get joy out of that. I'm not going to stay late for you. I'm not going to work harder for you. I'm going to work this, get my money's worth and then go hike Bramley mountain afterwards and watch the fricking sunset and enjoy my life. And I'm, I'm not advocating that, that everyone should quit their jobs, but I am saying that if you're unhappy and you feel like I felt that it wasn't bad, I had a great job and a

[02:18:45] great career, but I felt little pieces of me going away that I wasn't ever going to be able to get back. And it's, it's, it's time and it's energy and it's, it's that life energy we're talking about from Bill Perkins. Like you only have so much of that. And after a certain age, you, you get less of that each day that you can actually go out and make it, do something, make a difference. And like, yeah, it's an office space. What'd he say?

[02:19:10] He's like, uh, when he's with the, the, uh, I can recite that whole air at the time. If you want me to the hip to hypnotherapist where he's like, before you hypnotize it. Yeah. Each day sucks worse than the next day. You'll see me at my worst the next day. And it's, it's true. But then after he gets hypno, he's just like, you know, like he doesn't give a shit. At the diner. Are you going to, he's like, I quit my job.

[02:19:39] I just don't think I'm going to go anymore. What are you going to do about bills? He's like, I never really liked paying bills either. You know, like, screw this. I'm not going to pay my taxes. It doesn't go back into like the good. Fuck this. Like it's just. I'm not very good at paying my bills or my taxes. Do you know what? I definitely should punch out. Fuck corporate America. We should all do that. Stop paying taxes. What is it going to go to? But I think there's a way. And, and I'm not, I'm not saying burn the man completely to the ground.

[02:20:08] But what I'm saying is don't let you be the fuel while the man burns the world to the ground. Like you can go out and do your thing. You can, you can give your gift to humanity and to the world. You can make the world a better place. And it doesn't have to be about stacking money. Money's not real anyway. It doesn't matter. Like money, you can print money. We've seen that over the last hundred years for sure. Exponentially money doesn't matter or they wouldn't print it like they do. It's just a game. And it's all a game.

[02:20:37] Life's a game. Yeah. And once you know the rules. It's just a monopoly game without getting free money every time you go around the board. Yeah. And without starting off with, you know, a pocket full of cash, right? We're all thrown into this world cashless. Some people get money from their parents. Other people don't get money from their parents. And there comes a point in time where just kind of cast off and you either have to fend for yourself and survive or, you know, struggle, struggle, struggle. Both of it's a struggle. And I'll say this.

[02:21:08] There came a point in time I got out of high school. I go to college. After college, I go to graduate school back to back. I get out of graduate school and I'm not really making a lot of money, right? But I'm doing what my parents wanted me to do. They always, you know, growing up, it was like, you know, do this, do that, get out, get a job. And so here I am. I got this job as miserable as can be. So I worked for a year and I quit, right? I quit. I had a decent job, but I quit.

[02:21:36] I took a year off because I had these student loans that made me come back and start working again. But other than raising two daughters with my wife, that year I took off in terms of my adult life was the best year of my life up until maybe the first few months of this year. I was having a great time until I busted up my shoulder, right? So, but thankfully it's not cancer, you know, it's just an ortho injury that hopefully, you know, will be behind me and do course.

[02:22:05] So the story of this podcast is keep buying us hard ciders because that's necessity, but quit your job. Go in tomorrow to work. After you listen to this, go into your boss and say, I quit. And then just walk out, leave, get in your car, get in your car and go hiking, go camping, live out, live outdoors. Dosh and I will come by, we'll take care of you. We'll bring you matches and water filters. That's about all you're going to need. And a sharp knife.

[02:22:35] You know, life, something I learned, I probably heard this on, I probably heard it from Mr. Money Mustache or somebody like that. But he talked about how, you know, money, money isn't money. It's not just that money is equal happiness. Like they're two totally different things. Like you can't buy happiness and no amount of money is going to make you happy, but you've got to get happy. Happiness is almost a decision.

[02:23:04] It's almost like this thing you decide where when you're, when you align your mind and your heart and your values, like you're happy. And then having no money, it can make some problems, but it's like once the basics are covered, you can be, you'll still be happy. Back to the, I mean, I don't want to keep harping on this, but the, the captivity thing we were talking about, the animal, there's no animal in nature that's depressed. No animal in the wild has depression.

[02:23:31] And why do you think depression is so rampant in society slash captivity of humanity? Like we're walking circles in a cage. Just figure out what makes you happy and throw yourself at that. Mm-hmm. What makes you happy is hiking 2000 miles on the AT. Like that's fantastic. There were some bad days for sure, but, but, uh, but that's the thing. That's the thing about life is you can't appreciate the highs.

[02:23:59] If you don't know what the lows are in the lower lows, you experience the more you appreciate the highs when you get there. So did you, with this hike of the AT and the book, did you find what you were looking for? Uh, I did, but I, but it wasn't like some transformative moment on a mountaintop where I was just like, this is what my life's all about.

[02:24:24] It was a series of each day, each week, the whole process. It just like anything in life, it's a process, right? You don't, you don't wake up one day and you'd be like, like, uh, you don't just meet a person. And then one day you're just like, you know what? I'm just going to fall in love with them. It's like every day it just, it gets you closer and closer to this feeling where one day you're like, I love this person. You know, it's, it's the same with someone you respect or someone who becomes your best friend.

[02:24:54] You don't, it doesn't happen overnight. And it's the same thing with, did I find what I was looking for? I did, but it wasn't what I was looking for. It was just what I found. And I talk about this extensively in the book and I know we've, we've just, you guys have been very generous with your time and I won't belabor, but I'll just say there were a couple moments, a handful of moments throughout the trail, usually in solitude, usually at sunset, just because that's where people reflect, right?

[02:25:22] That's where you sit and think about the day and what had happened. But there were a few moments where I just had this, this realization that like, I don't know when, but somewhere along the way, I left pieces of me behind. I left things I was carrying, not stuff in my pack. I mean, certainly there was some garbage in my pack that I got rid of. I don't hike with a 32 pound pack, Stosh, you're an, you're an animal.

[02:25:47] But there were some quiet moments of reflection where I realized there are pieces of me that aren't, that were there when I started, that aren't here now. And what's, it was exciting because it was like, I think it's working, whatever else set out here to do, it's working, but it was also terrifying because I don't know what's going to fill those empty spots now. And it wasn't empty. Like it was lacking. It was just open and open to see what might fill it.

[02:26:13] So during the hike, did you ever think like, you know, halfway through, you're like, shit, what am I going to do when I'm done? Hmm. Uh, yes. I was going to say a lot of people, like, you know, that's, that's a fear I have. Like, you know, if I, if I were to ever do something like this, like, what the fuck am I going to do when I'm done? And am I going to go back to corporate society or am I going to live my life?

[02:26:40] About the time I got to Massachusetts is looking at the numbers and I was like, I'm going to finish. Like, it's just a matter of days. And then I got to Vermont, um, is when it really got heavy for me because some of those solemn moments, it wasn't just like me realizing what I've left behind and what, what's open now to, to other things. It was, I don't want this to end. Like, this is such an amazing experience. I don't want any of it to end.

[02:27:10] And then, I mean, the whites were just, oh my gosh, you have to have PMA sometime me and PMA, we should, we should tell you guys some stories from the whites. Cause it was, it was amazing, hilarious, but amazing. That dude makes some funny noises when he's tired at the end of the day. And then we have to go another three miles. It's hilarious. But, um, but then you get to Maine and it was just like every day was, it was a celebration,

[02:27:35] but almost, uh, almost like a solemn morning feeling like where it was just like, it's over. Like we have 14 days left. We have 12 days left. We have six days left. I have six miles left. Like by 10 o'clock tomorrow morning, this is over. And now what? It's gotta be tough. That's tough. It's, it's, it's a, it's a weird feeling. Do you explain this in the book? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Of course. Of course.

[02:28:04] And then most of the book is once again, not through the journey, but the, like kind of the aftermath and what you can expect. So it's a quick, quick synopsis. It's in four acts. The first act is like the decision to leave the life that I had that worked, um, the life that made sense on paper. And then acts two and three are the first half in the second half of the hike.

[02:28:30] And then act four is the burnup upon re-entry and the finding purpose and the realizing that like, this isn't what I thought it was going to be, but it's right. And it's okay. I like that. I can't, dude, I can't wait to, for this to come out and we'll talk about it when it's coming out and such. So let's, let's go into the rapid fire questions. We have a bunch of rapid fire questions. Of course, that anybody would ask kind of like on an AT through hike.

[02:28:59] So, uh, what was your favorite part of the Appalachian trail? 2,200 miles. Hmm. You know, I, I'll jump in. A lot of people say that, that, uh, that one gap area with the, the random ponies and stuff like that. Oh yeah. The grease and islands. It's beautiful. But I mean, physically I'll say from Vermont on, it just gets better. It just gets better and better every day. It's just the best. It's the main is the best, but it.

[02:29:29] It, what I miss about it. My favorite part was the simplicity, the rhythm and the people. I could only imagine the love that's going on where, you know, the joy of meeting up with your tramley down a mile down the road and be like, Hey, you know, like just imagine Ted me running into you on, on like, like anywhere to still be like, like, holy shit. It's had like some of the people that run into you on the trail.

[02:29:59] It's just, it's gotta be the most joyous moments. Oh, you've, there were times I wouldn't see someone for a thousand miles and then you're just at a random hostel together. And you're like, holy shit. What are you doing? A thousand miles. Let's head into town. Get some PBRs. Yeah. Yeah. Get that plat. But beyond the tramley, it's just like these wonderful humans who you meet out there who are just, they're just great souls. And you can't wait when you see them again. It's just like, it's just love.

[02:30:28] So yeah, that's, that's the best part. Wow. Amazing. What about your number of shoes? Uh, five pairs. So 10 shoes. Wow. Two thousand miles. Trail runners hiking shoes or something else? Yeah. I, I, I wore a Hoka speed goats. Um, I started with the, um, the vortex ones because I had always hiked in waterproof boots before and everyone said, get trail runners. So I got trail runners that were waterproof.

[02:30:58] Bad idea. Don't get waterproof trail runners because they're waterproof until they're soaked and then they're water filled for days. So I got smarter eventually. Um, but yeah, uh, five pairs of, of Hoka speed goats. Nice. No, I haven't heard of that before, uh, on here. So that's, that's pretty good. You want me? Yeah. These are my stosh style questions. What was, what was your, yeah. What was your starting pack weight and what was your ending pack weight?

[02:31:28] Nice. Rapid fire. I'll give you the short version. I, if I'd started on my own accord, my pack would have been 40 pounds easy. Nice. But I stopped it. I stopped at Neil gap, um, which is like the first shakedown point before I got on trail. I stopped there before I got on trail and they wisely talked me into only carrying four days of food instead of 10 days of food. So I probably started with a pack weight around in the low thirties, you know, like a, like a stosh weight of 32 for a day hike.

[02:31:58] I ended because I didn't need much food at that. I didn't need any food at that point. A couple of snacks. I think I summited probably with a 15 pound pack. Wow. The fucking difference. So you started out with a stosh pack and then ended with a tad pack. Yeah. It only took you 2,140 miles. The real eyes. But that's okay. But my, my base weight was about 13, 14 and then just food, water and fuel on top of that.

[02:32:29] Yeah. So a lot of people, you know, there's certain areas where you can gain a good amount of mileage of the day and stuff like that. So what was your best mileage in a day? Um, I was, I'm not a, I'm not a crazy person. I didn't do 40 mile days. Um, I did, I think my, I did a handful of marathon days, like 27 plus, I think my longest day was probably 28, 29.

[02:32:56] And that was in the Shenandoahs just cause it was so just cruisy. It was flat. And there was not going to lie. There was a little bit of road walking on the skyline drive involved with that because, uh, why not? Right. There's better views anyway. So yeah, probably 28, 29 miles. Wow. What about your worst? I took a lot of zeros. I mean, yeah. Yeah. I mean, uh, um, Nero's Nero's aside, uh, so zero being zero miles, Nero meaning just walk

[02:33:24] into town and stay or just stay and then walk out of town a couple of miles. Uh, probably like an actual day on trail six or seven miles is probably my worst day. Was it, would you say that's kind of like in the whites where you have to climb the most or you have the most elevation gain loss, stuff like that? Smart person would have, we were trying to meet one of my, my trail brother's family. Was meetings on Mount Washington on a certain day at a certain time. And we were behind.

[02:33:52] So we were, most people say if you're doing twenties on average scale back to about 14 in the whites and we were doing 18 to 20 in the whites. It was brutal. That's, that's pushing it, man. Oh, it was stupid. Yeah. That's why PA was making all those weird noises all day, especially after about six o'clock in the evening. Oh, man, guys, come on. But, uh, early on I was fairly smart.

[02:34:18] Uh, I was dumb about a lot of things, but I did limit my mileage to eight to 12 miles a day for the first like couple of weeks, at least first 10 or 12 days, uh, which was very smart. Um, so many people think they can hike 20 miles a day because they did when they were 20 or 25 and then they get out there at 40, 50 plus years old and their knee explodes on day three. And now they're through hikes over. So I did pace myself early on.

[02:34:44] Uh, but yeah, six to eight miles was probably a, that was a, that was a light day. Nice. Wow. All right. Let's talk about weight loss. Did you, did you lose weight along the way? Uh, I lost a lot early on. Uh, again, I didn't know I'd been backpacking their whole life. Like I thought I knew how to do this and the calories you burn when you're hiking all day for weeks upon an end.

[02:35:13] Um, I dropped by the time I got to Fontana dam, which is the, the Southern entry or Southern gateway to the Smokies. I finally stepped on a scale for the first time and I was down 16 pounds and it was day 14 or 15 at that point. I'd lost over a pound a day. And I don't remember this, man. I, I, uh, we're doing laundry and I, I stripped naked cause you wash everything. You know, you put on your rain gear while you're doing laundry cause it's the only thing you have that's clean ish.

[02:35:42] Um, and I looked in the mirror and I, it's, I scared myself. Like ribs were exposed. My chest was sunken in my face was sunken in. I was unhealthy for sure. Um, so I just, I realized, okay, I guess two to 3000 calories a day isn't doing it. So I tripled it and started eating six, six to 8,000 calories a day and was able to, I was able to maintain and then actually did gain some weight back.

[02:36:09] Um, and I was probably only about five pounds lighter at the end than it was at the beginning. Wow. Interesting. All right. Uh, what I'm going to save my question on the list. I want to know what were you, what were you generally eating when on trail like rehydrating food, junk food, your food situation. It evolved. Um, I really like having, uh, like a freeze dried dinner, uh, each night. It's just something about a warm meal before you go to bed. It's best.

[02:36:38] Um, mountain house is always good. I really like peak refuel. In my opinion, they make the best of the freeze dried stuff throughout. I started with oatmeal in the mornings. I was so done with oatmeal by the time we got through the smokies. Um, but, and it wasn't cold anymore after that really anyway. So most mornings I just ate like, like bars, like cliff bars and, uh, Gatorade makes a really good protein bar.

[02:37:04] Um, a lot of nuts, cashews, macadamia nuts, um, jerky. I didn't really eat because it has no fat and really no calories. It's, it's got some protein, but not, not for the weight. It's not worth it. So I focused on, especially after I realized how much weight I was losing, I focused on the highest fat content, highest protein content and highest calorie content. So I would, every time I went to town, I'd get a pound or two or cheese and I'd eat at least a half a pound of cheese every day.

[02:37:33] Uh, a lot of meat sticks and protein bars and, and again, nuts and all kinds of trail mix and stuff. But, uh, yeah, that in short, that that's what I ate. Crazy. All right. Best pizza. Where was the best pizza along the way? Oh, uh, the, oh, there's so many, so much good pizza. Uh, hot springs, North Carolina has a place. Uh, it's called, uh, vinyl pies. Um, and they just reopened because, uh, Katrina came there, not Katrina. Jeez.

[02:38:02] Wrong storm. Um, uh, what's it? Yeah. Elaine, Elaine. Yeah. Elaine came through in 24 and just devastated the South. I mean, in the Appalachians, just devastated it. And many towns were not exaggerating. They were completely washed away. I mean, gone, nothing there, but dirt. Um, and hot springs got, got pretty, got hit pretty hard. But when, when we got there, they were just having the reopening of their pizza parlor as a big celebration.

[02:38:31] Um, so we went and got pizza there and it was just such a special moment with all those folks, uh, really good pie. But I was also a sucker for anytime I went to trail town and got a hotel, I would always, almost always order pizza, like Papa John's or Domino's or whatever was in town. But, but yeah, hot springs, vinyl pies that takes the cake. So when you would order a pizza, would that be like one of these small personal size pizzas where you just go with the family size? Well, slice family size. Yeah. Eat it yourself. Two of them.

[02:39:00] I would usually look for those deals where it was like, like, uh, the $5 special where you got like, or $7 special where you got like three or four items that were five to $7 a piece. So two medium pizzas, a thing of wings and breadsticks, you know, that was my meal. And the delivery guy would come to your, your room and expecting like a crowd inside of the room and it would just be you. Yeah. And then he'd open the door and he'd smell the gear inside there. And he'd just be like, here, I don't even need a tip. Just take the pizza and go. So you're good. You're good. Yeah.

[02:39:30] That's, I mean, I, I, I, I agree with you, Mike, like at the end of a hike, you want the most shit you can consume. Like it's absolutely. Like I want burgers, like three burgers, maybe 20 moxerous sticks for Roman Cokes. Yeah. It's insanity. Beers and burgers and fries and appetizers. And I would oftentimes like on the way out of a trail town, I'd stop and grab some stuff like

[02:39:59] and eat that for lunch. Uh, but it's kind of nice to have not fresh food, but you know, not trail food. Yeah. Right. Like, I mean, and, and that's a great thing about the AT, you know, you have stops along the way that kind of keep you in line with life. But also once again, you're out of life with those was time with the miles and stuff like that.

[02:40:25] It's not like the PCT or the CDT of where you have no fucking connection with life that you have to live on your own for seven to 14 days till your next drop and stuff. So, I mean, that's good. That gets you a start. And then once again, you know, they connect with you with the PDC and the CDT, you know, uh, it's, it's crazy. So now, uh, what else we got next?

[02:40:50] The hardest climb that you had on the AT, what would you say that is? Hands down Webster cliffs. And this isn't a very well-known place, but it's, it's in the white mountains. It's before the, it's right before the presidential range. So right before you get into, you know, Whitney McKinley and, and Washington and all those. Um, but it's, it's, I don't even think it's a two mile climb from like the road to the campsite where we stayed.

[02:41:18] But I think it's like 1.7, 1.8 miles, but it's well over 2000 feet and in elevation. And it's just brutal. It's just straight up. It never ends. I was with PMA and our buddy tax man, when we climbed up there and we're keep looking at the far out, you know, the, the app that tells you all the landmarks and the, the, it's your map. It's your guidebook.

[02:41:43] Um, and every comment about this campsite at the top of Webster cliffs is like, it's worth the climb. Keep going. Just do it. Don't stop. And we got up there and it was hands down the most beautiful place we'd ever stayed in our lives. There's this open face rock looking over valleys, two or three valleys in each direction. It was incredible. And anybody that is within driving distance or wants to make a weekend trip to the whites do Webster cliffs.

[02:42:12] It's it's so hard, but it's so worth it and didn't help. It was the end of the day when we made the climb. So we'd already done 20 plus miles to get there. And then we had to climb up this, but that was tough. No, crazy. Good. Good. I mean, I would expect anything in the white to be a tough climb. So as I, I've been up there and I plan to go up there once again. So, um, as we move on, so we move on from the rapid fire. We have this next big question. Do you have any next big adventure coming out?

[02:42:43] I told you I'm a serial hobbyist and a bit of a squirrel brain. And so that keeps changing on a weekly basis, but some of my family members and some other friends from the trail were really flirting with the idea of the PCT next spring. Uh, it's it. Yeah. Uh, I'm not committing here today, but I will make my decision by October or so. Yeah. Well, we're going to book you right now for a return appearance. So you can't back out. Yeah. Yeah.

[02:43:10] You got to sponsor the podcast and, uh, maybe one of us will join you at a drop-off. That'd be awesome. Guys come do trail magic, whether I'm there or not, you should do it, but I would, I I'm leaning in that direction. I really am CD what CDT. PCT. PCT. You know, I, I heard the CDT is very good. It is. Colorado. Ah, PCT. Well, which one's the John Muir true? John Muir.

[02:43:38] John Muir is with the PCT for almost all. John Muir is like 211 miles. And I think over 200 miles are, are with the PCT. So I'm with you. PCT. Do it. Yep. All right. I'm looking forward to your, your time. Yeah. Write another book. Come on the show. Plug it. Twist my arm. Well, yeah. You know, when Stosh did that to me and look at how that turned out. Okay. Oh, shit.

[02:44:08] Disgusting. I did not do that with all due respect. I did not do that. I would drive. That's not what my attorneys say. Okay. So I'm going to have my day in court. So, uh, when can we purchase this book? When is it coming out? When is it online? And when can I promote it? All right. So launch day is the one year anniversary of our summit date, September 4th. Um, pre-orders are open now.

[02:44:34] Uh, easiest way to do that is my website, midlife hike, this.com. You can pre-order today. We will ship as soon as they're in so that they ideally arrive at your house on the 4th or shortly after of September. And I've got a handful of cities booked right now for a book tour in September and October and starting to fill that up. Uh, my goal is to not go country wide, but work my network and my trail friends and other connections.

[02:45:02] Um, so check out the website under the book tour, which will be coming out very shortly. And, uh, you'll see where I am and when I'm there. And I'd love to meet people and answer their questions, tell them a funny story and, uh, write my name in their book for them. Excellent. Sounds very cool. Yeah. So it sounds like you need some inside the line podcast stickers. Uh, I will take them. I have to come up here. I'll come up and meet you guys and we'll take a hike and you give me a stack of stickers and I'll take it on the road with me.

[02:45:32] Fuck. Yeah. Uh, fuck. Yeah. That sounds good. You got to pick Tad up first. Yeah. Where are you, Tad? Uh, I'm South of New Paltz. I'll pick Tad up and then we'll go down with you. Tad will have to listen to my heavy metal music. That'll make it the best. Tad's only hiking in the town park for the indefinite future. Yeah. So we'll see indefinite. No, it is not indefinite. You'll be back out in no time. Like, come on.

[02:45:57] So once again, thank you, Jeff, for joining us for the show to have you talk about your amazing exploration of the Appalachian True Tale. And now you're about your, your book that's coming out, um, that we, we can't wait to see it. It's September. Come on, man. And you're waiting us and making us wait that long. It's two months. It's, it's eight weeks away. It is eight weeks away. Okay. So looking forward to it. I've already pre-purchased it. So I'm looking forward to it. So everybody should look forward to it.

[02:46:27] Purchase it, support Jeff, uh, support his amazing stories that he's brought through here through inside the line, the Catskill mountain podcast. And the last big question, the question that nails the spot the most post hike bruising bites you down in a Catskills area up in, you know, the Hudson Valley, where you're going through the AT, did you see any areas that you want to give a big shout out that has just popped out into your mind through that whole 2,200 mile hike?

[02:46:57] I will say New York was way prettier in Southern New York was way prettier than I ever expected it to be. It's a little unforgiving. Uh, it's, it's full of puds. It's just up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down, but beautiful waterfalls, gorgeous, uh, shout out to, uh, the town of Warwick, especially the Warwick drive in the thing that the thing they do for the hikers there for five bucks, you can camp on the hill and watch a double feature.

[02:47:24] Um, and, and they're just so kind to the hikers and that's awesome. But, uh, is it Harriman state park? Sure. Yeah. Harriman state park. Harriman state park. Gorgeous. Absolutely. But anything did you eat that you want to suggest like some massive burger that you had or something down in the, uh, gosh, if this comes back to bite me and it wasn't New

[02:47:48] York, I will, I will apologize or deny depending on who says what, but the Appalachian market and I'll find it. I'll send you guys the, uh, the map if you can't find it or the screenshot for it, but Appalachian market, it's just this deli, um, that the trail goes right next to some of the best, some of the best sandwiches I've ever had in my life. And to tell you, I went there for lunch. Harrison. Harrison.

[02:48:18] Harrison. Garrison. Yes. That sounds right. So I went there for lunch, got a hoagie and a beer, packed out a hoagie for dinner, camped a mile past there, walked back the next morning, got breakfast and, uh, packed out another hoagie for lunch. It was, I ate there four times in about 12 hours. It's great. Wow. Nice. Nice. Uh, yeah, I was going to find out where it was, but my Google is absolutely acting up. So, oh yeah. Oh yeah.

[02:48:48] Yeah. Yeah. I see it down there in the peak skill right down Pete skill, man. It too. Yeah. All right. Sounds right. Yeah. Yeah. So gray more. So you're right on the way. That's, that's good to know. Um, so excellent. That's great. You know, the local stuff is what we'd love to hear that Ted and I promote the local areas and stuff of where you can go to once after your hike, you can go and have some good funds. I mean, we'd normally Jeff will have to take, when you come back up here, please get ahold of us.

[02:49:16] We're going to go, we're going to take you back up to a special place called Snyder's. It is the shit of the Catskills. Like Ted is looking low and he's just like, no, no, no, no. It is definitely, uh, if you want to Catskills full on experience, this is the place to go. I'll reach out to you guys. Uh, we'll make it a point before the book launch. We'll get up there in the next, uh, we'll do a book signing there. Yeah. Right. There we go. Yeah, no, absolutely. Let's do that.

[02:49:45] Shots of what, what are we going to have free shots of? Yeah. Well, two bar squeezes. You know what a bar squeeze is? No, I don't tell me. You take the bartender's towel. You wipe down the bar. Oh, gross. And you squeeze it into a shot glass. I mean, am I the only one that was a member of a fraternity in college here? I was not. The Kai house was famous for bar squeezes. Oh, that's disgusting. It's like all these into one vodka. You got to apply. What is it?

[02:50:16] Yeah. The sweat and tears of the patrons as well. Yeah. So, but you, you know, to have a bar squeezer too, you're already pretty well bent. So it doesn't really matter. It's going to be a good time. It's going to be a good time. Hear it now. We're doing a signing ad or near Snyder's this fall. We'll figure out the date and we'll make it happen. And I'll buy the bar squeezes. Okay. All right. It'll be a fantastic time. So, uh, let's wrap this fricking amazing episode up.

[02:50:43] Jeff, I fully appreciate you coming on the show to talking about the whole aspect of hap of hiking the Appalachian trail, writing a book. Now putting out the book for us to enjoy. It's definitely been a journey that I would love to hear about. And once again, being 43 years old, midlife hike this God, I want to fucking do that. I might fucking do that. Yeah. Well, Hey buddy, I've been telling you going to tell you again, just make it happen.

[02:51:13] Put, put, put, just pull, pull out a dart, put the calendar on the wall, throw the dart on the wall, wherever it hits the calendar. That's the day. Just go out there and do it. I'll tell you this one last thing ready is not a feeling is a decision. Just do it. Yeah. I've looked forward to starting to do it again. And I'm very thankful to having Jeff on the show to explain all this, to thoroughly go in

[02:51:41] of why he jumped into this crazy decision, but how the outcome was so positive. And it made him feel more real, made him feel, I hate to say it more American. Like, you know, this is my freedom. I'm going to fucking do whatever I want with it. Well, this, this is a very popular way of living out West, right? They, they seem to, you know, have, have more of that free spirit out there. And I'll say, it looks like Jeff has figured it out and, uh, we wish him all the best going

[02:52:10] forward, whatever he does and wherever he does it and whoever he does it with. Just have fun. Okay. Josh, thank you guys so much. Congratulations on number one in the region, on your podcasts. You guys are doing great stuff. Keep it up. And thank you so much for having me. Thank you. I only do it to have fun. So with the, with the, the Catskill community, with the Hudson Valley community, I do it for my love of the Catskills and for the love of the life that we get to have here.

[02:52:38] We get to chat with here about, you know, Joe or Jeff coming off of this through hike and feeling more alive than ever. And then sharing it all about it and sharing the ups and down. It's not just a straight up. It's not just the hike. It's everything and everything, everything in between. Uh, I can't wait to hear it. So look in September, this official date. What's the official date? September 4th. September 4th is launch date. September 4th is launch date.

[02:53:08] So either go on Joe and Jeff's website for, uh, an official, you can get a regular book or you can get a signed book. I suggest getting the signed book. Cause that's what I'm going to do. Yeah. That's what I'm going to do. And, uh, you can get it sent to you and, uh, you can read about how awesome it is. So great to have you on it, Jeff. This has been a fantastic time. Great to hear about your story of the Appalachian trail. Well, this could probably could have taken at least 12 hours to talk about.

[02:53:36] So, but we wrapped it in under two hours. Bah, bah. Two hours. I was here. Well done. Yeah. Yeah. Well done. So great to have you, Jeff. We hope to have you on in the future, uh, with your future stuff, you know, keep and connect with us, with, uh, with Long Island Hikers, Sean, and, you know, please stay with us. It was a great chat. Likewise. Appreciate you guys. Take care. Take care, Jeff. Take care. Take care. All right. See ya. Love you guys.

[02:54:07] Hey, everyone. I just want to thank you for listening to the show. If you enjoyed the show, subscribe and throw down a smooth review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or any podcast platform that you use. You can also check daily updates of the podcast, hikes, hiking news, and local news on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and the official website of the show. Remember this.

[02:54:36] You got to keep on living in the podcast. You got to keep on living in the cat skills, man. L-I-V-I-N. Wicked. Wicked. Wicked. Wicked. Wicked. Wicked.