Episode 230 - NYDownstate28 Challenge with David Perez

[00:00:29] The bushwhacks were some of the worst days I've ever had in the mountains, or life really. Whereas Pantsy Mountain is totally opposite, it's a mountain on top of a crater. I think the weather challenges on this incident were particularly difficult. It is really the development of New York State. Catskills will respond to it.

[00:00:52] Passment to Inside The Line, the Catskill Mountains Podcast. Alright, Episode 230 tonight. David Perez joins us for one of the newest challenges in New York State called the New York Downstate 28.

[00:01:20] Now this is, David, I gotta admit man, you know, I first heard about this. This has been gaining traction, man. We're excited to talk about this. David Perez- Yeah, I mean it seems like every one of your followers has picked up my challenge. So, I'm excited about that. David Perez- So yeah, two people have done it. David Perez- So you got, yeah, there's like, there's dozens of us. Dozens. David Perez- Oh, okay. David Perez- And they seem to be enjoying it too. David Perez- Yeah, it's an excellent challenge. David Perez- And you know, once again, a lot of the listeners are from the Hudson Valley, New York City area. David Perez- Yep.

[00:01:48] David Perez- So this is a great way to get them, you know, out of the high peaks, doing their own thing, David Perez- And then maybe getting them up into the high peaks. Good, good starter challenge. David Perez- So David's on here tonight chatting about that. We're also going to chat about a bunch of other stuff. David Perez- David Perez- Has a, I wouldn't say repertoire, but I know David not as much as I should as it sounds, but he has been everywhere to hear his stories. David Perez- Where did I follow you? Mount Hood? You gave me your, I was like-

[00:02:17] David Perez- Oh, that was way back Mount St. Helens. That's when we first got into volcanoes. Yeah. David Perez- Yeah. So I was following him on his garment on Mount St. Helens just to make sure he didn't die. David Perez- Yeah, he was my lifeline. David Perez- Hell yeah. So glad to have you on. But first things first, let's get down to business. David Perez- Now there, I wanted to, I wanted, I waited this, this was, this is a couple weeks old.

[00:02:42] David Perez- I wanted to wait for this to see if there was any more like, like details and stuff about this. David Perez- But on the devil's path, two weeks ago, there was alleged mountain lion attack. David Perez- So I get this information from the Green County New York fire district saying that there was a Lex, David Perez- Rescue in Lexington staged at the Sprucedon trailhead hiker possible attack by the mountain lion.

[00:03:09] David Perez- As the stuff keep coming in, the person who posted it was a firefighter in the Lexington area said, David Perez- Green 911 in contact with the hiker. Hiker has not been attacked, but a mountain lion is in the area. David Perez- Hiker is exhausted and located about two miles up the devil's path from the trailhead. David Perez- So we're going up to Shaw Southwest Hunter. David Perez- And then it says hiker's vehicles in located in the area of Minkalo road, New York state police on the scene and into the woods.

[00:03:37] David Perez- Now later on, I, I dug deeper. David Perez- I tried to dig deeper. David Perez- It didn't seem much came out. David Perez- Haven't heard of course much from DC. David Perez- They're going to hide that because it's a mountain line. David Perez- But I have a feeling it was just, I don't even know what the hell it would be a bobcat out there or something. David Perez- Or if this person just fully made up this, this, this thing and just wanted to get out of there out and rescue. David Perez- Haven't heard if they needed a litter carry out, you know, if they just dehydrated or such.

[00:04:06] David Perez- But being two miles up Southwest Hunter on devil's path, kind of like besides coming back down on, on St. Ann's peak is like one of the most easiest parts of devil path. David Perez- It's got a lot of elevation gain, but it's pretty easy. David Perez- So I don't know what it was. David Perez- What is your thoughts on this, David? David Perez- I mean, you've been out in the areas out West where there are mountain mines.

[00:04:30] David Perez- Yeah, well, I mean, I think that the lack of any new information is a little sus. David Perez- Maybe there is something to hide. David Perez- I remember seeing this, this post, I think you posted it initially as it was happening. David Perez- And I mean, it's easy to say that they made it up. David Perez- I know that that was a theory. David Perez- People are just, just to get, you know, make it seem more alarming.

[00:04:57] David Perez- But yeah, who knows? David Perez- Who knows? David Perez- Who knows in the Catskills? David Perez- Ted, what is it? David Perez- I sent you this like immediately. David Perez- What were your thoughts? David Perez- That's it. David Perez- I got my thoughts. David Perez- Oh, come on. David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- I mean, seriously, right? David Perez- Hiker, possible attack by mountain light.

[00:05:22] David Perez- So as if you would be uncertain about whether or not you were attacked by a mountain lion. David Perez- That's true. David Perez- Which is true. David Perez- Seriously? David Perez- You don't know? David Perez- And when was this- David Perez- How can you call yourself a hiker if you can't, when being attacked, you can't tell the difference between a mountain lion, a bobcat, a bear? David Perez- I'm just going to throw Bigfoot in there as well. David Perez- Okay? David Perez- Yeah, it's- David Perez- I just, yeah, you know- David Perez- It's definitely wild to hear.

[00:05:51] David Perez- I think this guy baited you, right? David Perez- I think you got baited by this guy, Mark Bacross, Bacross. David Perez- Bacross, yeah. David Perez- Yeah, baited you. David Perez- You took the bait and when this episode comes out, he's going to be rolling in laughter with Denny Hall and the unnamed hiker that you took the bait on this. David Perez- That it's still being processed.

[00:06:18] David Perez- Like that's just, and then after this, after I first posted this, I see a bunch David Perez- A bunch of different news places on social media like, I forgot it was like New York Upstate or something like that, New York Live post about this as well. David Perez- And it looks like in their reviews or their content, they say that like DEC says there's David Perez- No alleged attack or anything like that. David Perez- So I don't know if they reached out to the DEC about this and asked them about

[00:06:47] David Perez- I mean, to be honest, like people say they cover mountain lion attacks David Perez- all the time or mountain lion sightings. David Perez- What the fuck would you cover? David Perez- What would you cover a wild animal sighting for any reason possible? David Perez- Like people are going to be- David Perez- Well, that somebody reports it's a mountain lion is obviously unusual, but I'm David Perez- I'm going to ask my wife, I think our one red house cat got loose that day. David Perez- And maybe that explains, because she is kind of large, even though we call her Peach.

[00:07:17] David Perez- Peach is a kind of a large orange tiger house cat, could be mistaken for a mountain lion. David Perez- And the one thing is alleged, like what did the mountain lion do? David Perez- Like jump up, like put his paws on it and then pounced away? David Perez- Like there's that, have you, you've both seen that one guy that was walking through like one of the higher areas that the mountain lion was pouncing at him for like five minutes. David Perez- Like that is terrifying.

[00:07:46] David Perez- This one just kind of like, like was walking up Southwest Hunter and slapped him on the ass and was like, and then ran away. David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- Well, it was a possible attack. David Perez- I don't know what exactly that means, but whatever it was, it wasn't a full on attack. David Perez- Is that, I have, you know, why don't they say possible mountain lion? David Perez- It makes sense. David Perez- They're not sure about the attack, but are they so certain about the mountain lion? David Perez- I have no idea. David Perez- I got it. David Perez- If I'm a listener, I'm hitting the fast forward button.

[00:08:15] David Perez- This is, this is soccer. We were at FIFA. David Perez- So this was a soccer player that went up, got hit by like a tree branch and fell down and had like, ah, my knee, I need help. David Perez- No, like all the- David Perez- No, no. David Perez- I think that if it was a soccer player, they did that bicycle kick on the mountain lion and it ran away. David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- What do you think, David? David Perez- Is you, you think you a soccer fan? David Perez- Is that how it went down? David Perez- I don't think that's how it went down. David Perez- Okay.

[00:08:43] David Perez- I'm going to play devil's advocate and say that they were attacked by something. David Perez- Maybe just that devil's path air that gets you. David Perez- I don't know, were they doing the devil's path? David Perez- Were they actually hiking the full trail? David Perez- Because I've hallucinated the hell out of that trail. David Perez- Toward the end, you're going to St. Anne's and just thinking about a burger and seeing spots. David Perez- Maybe that's what happened.

[00:09:12] David Perez- They said that it was parked at Mink Hollow. David Perez- So I mean, that's Plateau. David Perez- So they were doing not even the western, but I mean, that was, it seemed western and then plateau. David Perez- That's really odd place to park for saying that you're doing the devil's path. David Perez- No, I mean, I've done the eastern for the devil's path using that as either the car spot or where I ditched the bike when I start. David Perez- True. David Perez- So all you got to do is summit plateau and then you come back down to Mink Hollow. David Perez- True. David Perez- Yeah.

[00:09:39] David Perez- And then you go hit Sugarloaf Twin, Indian Head out to Predator. David Perez- Okay. David Perez- Another car. David Perez- I mean, if you're out banging out peaks, that's the easiest way to bang out those four is to start our stuff at Mink Hollow. David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- So we'll keep our eyes out. David Perez- I mean, I'll definitely keep my eyes out. This is my kind of stuff. David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- I'll reach out to the one lady we had on here, Aaron, I believe, to talk about

[00:10:08] this and come out and be like, yeah. Oh yeah. Graham and double top. David Perez- We'll have, we'll actually like be talking about this in a couple of minutes. So yeah. David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- Well, we got to find, let's find the possible hiker and interview the possible hiker. David Perez- True. Maybe it was that, I mean, you told me about this before, but that person that fell off a hundred foot clip and like saw angels or something, maybe it was the same exact thing, except he saw a mountain line. David Perez- David's already said it's like the hallucinogenic zone of the Catskills. David Perez- Yeah.

[00:10:38] David Perez- That's true. So let's move on to, we got some rescues in the Catskills. David Perez- So town of Shandaken on July 12th, 4.44 PM. David Perez- Rangers Horton Martin responded to a call for a hiker who fell, twisted their leg and hit their head on a rock approximately a quarter mile up the Tanbark Trail. David Perez- Rangers joined the Phoenicia fire department, Shandaken EMS and package the patients to carry them to the road. Shandaken EMS transported them to the local hospital.

[00:11:07] David Perez- Resources were clear at 6.15. David Perez- So that's a Tanbark Trail. David Perez- It's up near, uh, Trump, Trumper like right around there. Shandaken, Phoenicia, Trumper area. David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- Sounds right. David Perez- Okay. David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- That's a nice trail. David Perez- It is part of the, part of the old trails challenge. David Perez- Okay. David Perez- Uh, so glad they got out. Uh, it's not a bad, that bad rescue an hour and a half. David Perez- Good for them. David Perez- Uh, in the town of Hunter at 7, 10 PM on July 12th, same day.

[00:11:37] David Perez- Uh, Greene County requested forest ranger assistance for report of an unconscious subject that caterskill falls. David Perez- Rangers responded with twin clothes, technical rope rescue team, hunter police, David Perez- Green County, Green County sheriffs, Green County paramedics and multiple fire departments. David Perez- When rescuers arrived, the patient was conscious after suffering a diabetic emergency. David Perez- Rescuers carried the subject to the trailhead. David Perez- A hunter ambulance transported them to hospitals and resources were clear at 945.

[00:12:05] David Perez- Another, uh, successful, um, rescue. David Perez- So rangers are, it's that time of year, man. David Perez- I told, I contacted Martin and I was just like, how you guys doing? David Perez- And he's like, it's getting busy. David Perez- It's getting seriously busy. David Perez- So they're doing good. David Perez- So thank you for your rescues and stuff like that. David Perez- Thank you for your participation and stuff. David Perez- And, uh, that seems like, uh, that, that everybody responded to the Catterskill Falls ones. David Perez- Yeah, horn and, and Martin were the only ones that responded to the TAN.

[00:12:34] David Perez- They're like, yeah, well, we got this. David Perez- We're fine. David Perez- So, yeah, well, that's, that's quite a carry out for them off of Tannenbark. David Perez- Yeah, right. David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- But the Phoenicia fire department was there. David Perez- They're very, they're very good with that as well. David Perez- So, um, all right. David Perez- What else do we have going on? David Perez- As we all know, uh, with the recent past week or so, wildfire smoke has been entering the region and it has been crazy.

[00:13:04] David Perez- Like we have hidden hidden. David Perez- Uh, where I lived, we got an AQI, uh, air quality index of around 350. David Perez- And I heard down south in the, the Catskills and stuff, it was hitting around like 400 at times and stuff. David Perez- So it's been a wild wildfire smoke coming from Canada over in Ontario.

[00:13:25] David Perez- If you've seen this stuff on social media, the plumes that are coming out of this look like, like, like David has been the volcano stuff. David Perez- We talked about Mount Zanth. David Perez- This looks like a volcano erupted. David Perez- Like it's just insane. David Perez- And, you know, Hudson Valley weather, Alex from Hudson Valley weather explained this perfectly that there's a certain, the jet stream is just flowing, bringing that smoke from that part of Ontario down into our area.

[00:13:52] David Perez- And, um, it's just, it's, it's wild, you know, Tad, you're, you're around like 60 years old, you know, you've been through 60 years of this. David Perez- Can you, I mean, we talked about this. David Perez- Can you remember at any time of them saying like on the news, like wildfire smoke will be in the near area? David Perez- We talked about this a little bit in the past. David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- Yeah.

[00:14:15] David Perez- So I, you know, growing up in the sixties and seventies, I don't remember any issues with, uh, wildfire smoke. David Perez- And I grew up less than 20 miles off of Lake Erie and a stone's throw off of Chautauqua Lake in southwestern New York.

[00:14:37] David Perez- And it was quite common in the summer to see these inversions, but the, what was being inverted was all of the smokestack emissions from generally cold, cold fire and oil fired, uh, factories, steel making plants, et cetera, out in the Midwest. David Perez- And so we, we would have these inversions in the acid rain and all of that stuff. David Perez- And it was, yeah, you could taste it in the air, uh, but I don't know. David Perez- Yeah.

[00:15:05] David Perez- Well, I mean, it would, it would be so bad that when you were actually within like five or 10 miles of these factories, the sky would be orange in the middle of the day and it would taste like that rotten sulfur eggs because of, you know, the, uh, fossil fuel emissions that were coming out of the smokestacks. David Perez- Uh, and you know, if you go back far enough, I mean, Lake Erie was just like a cesspool. David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- You wouldn't, you wouldn't go.

[00:15:31] David Perez- So I mean, you would throw somebody in it if you wanted to be vindictive and punitive, but you, you wouldn't go swimming in Lake Erie in the sixties and early seventies. David Perez- And then remarkably it cleaned up over time, but yes, of forest fires smoke, unheard of. David Perez- David, how about, how about you? David Perez- I mean, don't mind. David Perez- Don't. David Perez- Sorry to ask. David Perez- How old are you, sir? David Perez- Oh, uh, 40. David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- 40.

[00:15:59] David Perez- Just being in there as a kid, like it coming in and, and hearing stuff about this. David Perez- Yeah, nothing like that. David Perez- We, so I grew up in Northern New Jersey. David Perez- I'm still here. David Perez- Um, but we always had pine barren fires every summer. David Perez- Um, but those would blow south of us and sometimes occasionally would like kick up and then you'd smell it. David Perez- But no, nothing that was just such a large swath of area. David Perez- And it's scary.

[00:16:26] David Perez- I mean, Buck D and I, we do a lot of, a lot of travel out west and the wildfires are always something that you have to consider in your, in your travels, especially in the summer, especially by late summer. David Perez- But the Northeast always felt like it was kind of immune to that. David Perez- Uh, but I guess those times are changing. David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- I'll echo David's comments.

[00:16:50] David Perez- You know, one of the things I've learned through my daughter who's perpetually traveling now is routine for her when she's going from one place to the other or picking where she's going next is you need to check for the forest fires where they are, where they're moving. David Perez- And I think that's a great thing because last summer is an example. David Perez- I won't say they were evacuated, but yeah, they were rushed out of a certain area because of an advancing forest fire in western Colorado.

[00:17:21] David Perez- And she also had another incident last year. David Perez- I think it was in Utah. David Perez- But the other thing which I didn't realize until I started going out west with my daughter and talking to people that a seasonal occupation out west is being a professional forest fire. David Perez- Mm-hmm . David Perez- That's what you do.

[00:17:42] David Perez- You, every forest fire season, you hook up working for, you know, either the federal government or state government or some of whoever's, you know, hiring and they all hire seasonally. David Perez- You pick up a job for the season fighting forest fires. David Perez- And so you work X months out of the year doing that stuff. David Perez- And then when the season's over, you either don't work or you get some other job, but yeah, it's a seasonal gig for a lot of people. David Perez- And then when the season's over, you know, I'm going to be able to get some of those people out there fighting forest fires.

[00:18:12] David Perez- I never knew that. David Perez- Not only is it seasonal, but I hear that it's very competitive. David Perez- Like it's a job that people really want and the training is grueling and brutal. David Perez- I mean, they like drop you out of planes, helicopters to get back into the back country to get behind the fire. David Perez- Yeah, and I've heard that it's a, it's a very grueling training just to get in and it's very selective. David Perez- Well, I was looking forward to that, Tad. David Perez- Thanks a lot.

[00:18:40] David Perez- When I do the RV life now, I ain't going to be able to do that shit. David Perez- You just got to look at the forest fire map and plan accordingly. David Perez- Well, I met as a, as a seasonal job of when we, we move out west for the RV life. David Perez- I ain't gonna, they got like 20 year olds fricking killing the shit out of me and I'm going to be 50 when I'm 50, 50, 50, 60. David Perez- The forest fires I met were all in their, their twenties. David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- So throw that out.

[00:19:09] David Perez- Yeah, yeah. David Perez- Save that for the young. David Perez- I'll be watching the binoculars from like oh, it's getting bad. David Perez- Yeah, just one, I wanted to bring that up. David Perez- Once again, you go out hiking. David Perez- And we'll talk about it later on previous hikes. David Perez- Check out the air quality index because it does affect you. David Perez- You know, you can taste that, that, I mean, smell, you can taste it, you can smell it, it can affect your breathing and stuff. David Perez- And we'll, we'll, we'll talk about that later. David Perez- So it's, it's crazy.

[00:19:34] David Perez- And last but not least, another mountain lion chat. David Perez- We have a family that is selling its 136 year old farm for wildlife crossing. David Perez- And they deem this a lifeline for mountain lions. David Perez- So up in Washington state's Cascades, beautiful Cascade Mountains. David Perez- This family sold their 94 acre property for $1.1 million all the way to make

[00:20:00] a way for a major wildlife bridge planned across Interstate five, reconnecting the habitats of the Cascade Mountains with the Olympic Peninsula. David Perez- Now this acquisition will make new wildlife crossing David Perez- Ready to move ahead. David Perez- And it makes a whole new, few instance for the wildlife to proceed from one area to the other. David Perez- The Seattle Times reported that the nonprofit Conservation Northwest raised $2.5

[00:20:28] million to help buy the land for the crossing, which was returned to the Confederated Tribes of the Cihalas Reservation. David Perez- Now these existing pathways, we all know that, you know, the interstates roads, David Perez- stuff like that change the way that the animals proceed to their next area or they, you know, they want to breed over in that area. David Perez- So they are definitely changing this and this is a really good step forward. David Perez- If you want to see mountain lions, I guess we're going to have to go over the Cascades and stuff. David Perez- And this was initial step to main habitat connections.

[00:20:58] David Perez- And they're basically devoting this to wolves, elk, fishers, and other wildlife like mountain lions. David Perez- So it's definitely a cool event that is happening. David Perez- The Seattle Times chatted about this 50 years, about 50 years ago with the Vine Maple Farms Trust saying that they had this in mind for a very long time. David Perez- It's been in the family. David Perez- I mean, the families had this place for 136 years and they are doing what they want to do with it.

[00:21:28] David Perez- That the family has this and stored to use this as a lifeline for connecting wildlife from one major habitat to another of the Cascades to the Olympics. David Perez- Now, David, you've been in the Cascades and you've been to the Olympics as well. David Perez- I've heard nothing but amazing things. David Perez- It's our favorite place on earth. David Perez- Truly gorgeous. David Perez- We've been to a lot of places and I don't think there's anything as beautiful

[00:21:56] as the North Cascades especially. David Perez- And the Olympics, pretty close second for sure. David Perez- Now, the wildlife. David Perez- I mean, that's where like Wolverines are and stuff like that. David Perez- Like it's a big habitat for that area. David Perez- There's a lot of wildlife. David Perez- I don't know that there are Wolverines, but it's not like you would see them anyway. David Perez- Maybe there are, but there's a lot of wildlife. David Perez- We see a lot of mountain goats when we go. David Perez- They're everywhere looking for salt, chewing on stuff.

[00:22:25] David Perez- Locking your way up the mountain. David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- So like, you know, the Northern Cascades I know are kind of very similar to kind of like the Canadian Rockies and stuff like that. David Perez- You know, there's the glaciers. David Perez- There's a lot of awesome, turquoise, glacial-fed lakes and stuff like that. David Perez- Oh yeah. David Perez- And the peaks are enormous. David Perez- You know, we do have like 3,000, 4,000 foot gains in just a matter of like not David Perez- Not even miles and stuff. David Perez- Oh, double that.

[00:22:55] David Perez- Yeah, double that. David Perez- It's insane. David Perez- So now like the wildlife, of course, we're talking like I've been up in Canada where they've had these massive bridges. David Perez- And over the years, they've shown a great success with moose crossings, elk, bear, wolves, foxes, stuff like that. David Perez- So this is going to be a huge step. David Perez- This can be a great step. David Perez- Will we see this in the Northeast, Ted?

[00:23:18] David Perez- Well, as you're talking about this, I'm thinking of printing out this article and sending it to the Gould family to convince them to sell their property. David Perez- Well. David Perez- But mountain lion habitat, if you know what I'm saying. David Perez- Well, that's kind of why I brought this up. David Perez- You know, I saw this and I was just like, you know, maybe that is what's going to happen for the Goulds. David Perez- They're going to sell this area to a certain maybe, what is it, OPI?

[00:23:48] David Perez- Mm-hmm. David Perez- And they're going to sell that to them and it's going to be a natural habitat for mountain lions. David Perez- And they are going to, I mean, I shared this on the Instagram a little bit before of them rehabilitating mountain goats to different areas because, you know, they need them over there or they've been destroying there. David Perez- So I can see this happening. David Perez- I can see mountain lions being transported. David Perez- You know, we got a Chinook flying over with three different mountain lions on it and then they drop it off right on the top of double top.

[00:24:18] David Perez- They sign into the canister and then they go to the next thing, Graham, sign in if it's still there on Graham and they start taking over. David Perez- We have our first canister sign in since what, 2022? David Perez- Was that when they took it down? David Perez- Yeah, I suppose so. David Perez- I'm guessing that's what, but I mean. David Perez- But you know, it's, I think it's pretty neat.

[00:24:39] David Perez- You know, once again, the influence that people have instead of, you know, selling these, that's a big step for, I would say away from greed, you know, to sell it to once again, somebody like the wants to keep the natural habitat, you know, of the animals and stuff instead of just selling it to some rich millionaire that's just going to take over and not enjoy it. David Perez- Yeah.

[00:25:07] David Perez- Rich, rich millionaires can arguably preserve the environment. David Perez- And maybe some would say that's what the Gold family has done, particularly if you're willing to ignore the radio tower and facilities that were built there in the 60s. David Perez- You know, and maybe they would have done a better job of land stewardship had they allowed the unmarked trail to the summit of double top.

[00:25:40] David Perez- And maybe in connection with that, we can ask the Gold family to let us know of the, how many of our Gold family members there are at present. David Perez- How many of them have been to the summit of South double top in the last four or five years? David Perez- True. David Perez- Maybe we'll get to a number that's more than five. David Perez- Maybe not. David Perez- I don't know. David Perez- Yeah.

[00:26:05] David Perez- But it's interesting, although, you know, as we have reported earlier, we are, well, I'm not going to say we are, but somebody is, you know, relocating mountain lion cubs to double top mountain. David Perez- And so you should stay away for a while. David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- You can go to South double top, but stay away from double top proper. David Perez- Yeah.

[00:26:29] David Perez- Unless you're a member of cats, which is the cat amount adoption and training stewards program. David Perez- David, David donated to that. David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- He's probably going to come up with some nice merch for that as well. David Perez- Ooh. David Perez- That's in the future. David Perez- I actually did make you a custom sticker. David Perez- Ah. David Perez- I'll have to send it to you. David Perez- And it involves some, some big cats in the cat skills. David Perez- Nice. David Perez- Yeah.

[00:26:59] David Perez- I can't wait to talk about that day. David Perez- I'm excited. David Perez- People are going to love it. David Perez- All right. David Perez- So thank you guys for shooting the shit. David Perez- Let's move on to the important people of the show. David Perez- Definitely not us. David Perez- Like Chris Garabee and Eric Rosario, Ascana Nichols, John Comiskey, Mike ES, Desert City Radio, Henry Burmeister, Vicky Ferreira, Jeff Jotz, David Oliver, Betsy A, Denise W, Vanessa. David Perez- And Jim C. David Perez- Ooh. David Perez- It's a lot. David Perez- Love you guys. David Perez- Yeah, it's, it's long. David Perez- It's amazing.

[00:27:28] David Perez- You know, once again, they're supporting the show that, you know, I thought would never do anything and this is going so great. David Perez- And once again, we're supporting the cat skills, you know, it's, you're not just supporting the show. David Perez- You're supporting the cat skills. David Perez- That's, that's an elite list of people, right? David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- Top notch. David Perez- I love those. David Perez- They're so awesome. David Perez- When you get a chance, check out Desert City Radio. David Perez- They got a cool music feed online. David Perez- Yeah.

[00:27:54] David Perez- So if you have, if you have some spare time, click into it, throw your headphones on or your ear pods, whatever, and listen to it. David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- Some pretty esoteric stuff. David Perez- Definitely, definitely. David Perez- And you should also check out outdoor Chronicles photography. David Perez- Molly, specializes in adventure couple photography and she'll moralize your moments amidst the stunning landscapes of Catskills, Adirondacks, and the White Mountains. David Perez- She'll craft timeless images that reflect unique bond in nature's grandeur.

[00:28:23] David Perez- Also, you should embark on an unforgettable photographic journey with outdoor Chronicles photography. David Perez- Don't hesitate to get a hold of Molly on every single platform. David Perez- Also, what you need to do is discover the wilderness with Trailbound Project. David Perez- Our expert-led hiking, backpacking education programs offer unparalleled outdoor experiences. David Perez- Whether you're a beginner or seasoned adventurer, join us to learn essential skills, explore stunning trails, and connect with danger.

[00:28:49] David Perez- Start your journey today with Trailbound Project and unlock the wonders of the great outdoors. David Perez- All right. David Perez- Who's having something to drink tonight? David Perez- Anybody? David Perez- Oh yeah. David Perez- What are you having, David? David Perez- All right. David Perez- So I got fancy ahead of our meeting together and made myself an espresso martini, David Perez- Just because I'm a bit of a coffee snob. David Perez- Well then. David Perez- And then I have a backup beer just because I know how concise you like to make these podcasts. David Perez- Yes.

[00:29:18] David Perez- But just in case it runs over, I've got a beer as well. David Perez- It will. David Perez- Just one, David? David Perez- Did I miscount? David Perez- Yeah. David Perez- Please. David Perez- You might need a six pack. David Perez- Yeah, yeah, yeah. David Perez- Of 18 ounces, just saying. David Perez- Correct. David Perez- We can do it. David Perez- You can do it. David Perez- Todd- Ted, how about you, sir? David Perez- All right. It takes me a little while. David Perez- Opening a can of beer is difficult, but I think I'm ready. David Perez- Oh yeah. David Perez- So David, sorry. David Perez- Go ahead, Ted. David Perez- You crack it. David Perez- I got you. David Perez- I got nothing there. Casey Perez- No, you got it.

[00:29:49] Dunтеz Perez- Okay. David Perez- That was good. David Perez- That's a little bit ... it wasn't too much. David Perez- Awesome. awesome yeah he has to shotgun it and open another that's yeah role that is I mean it's also we we have dedicated microphones here so um all right so I guess put it in the air pod yeah I'll crack it right into the air pod there you go yeah just do that right in the middle of your interview and

[00:30:18] and then and then we'll do that all right excellent so I have a 1911 orange creamsicle so 1911 I had a lot of 1911s this weekend when I saw 311 and dirty heads up in Syracuse they didn't have really much so 1911 honeycomb was my drink of choice and it was great

[00:30:43] so Dave has two two drinks to tell us I'm yeah now I'm double fisting officially this so I guess the podcast is underway um this beer is is really neat um I saw it and I had to get it Sloop Brewing it's a local Hudson Valley brewing company but they are doing a collab with the Appalachian Trail Conference um so all proceeds of this go towards building maintaining trails throughout New England

[00:31:09] what was it again it's a Sloop Brewing how do you spell that S-L-O-O-P oh okay you've probably seen their beers they've got they've got their juice bomb IPA oh yes this is a nice like hazy very uh session mellow IPA yeah so if you can't get out and do trail maintenance just pound like just crack as I said I don't even need to go out anymore I'm I'm doing my part right here drinking yeah nice nice

[00:31:37] he's got the pruners in one hand and the beer in the other all right fancy in one hand and then hardcore uh hiker trash in the other I love it yeah but that was not the most interesting drink that David had he was he did admit that he's double fisting here so what's in the other hand the other hand is a uh fancy martini my fancy uh espresso martini I like my uh my we talked about

[00:32:01] the cascades already so Cascadia coffee roasters out in out in the north cascades makes the perfect espresso bean so I get those shipped to me and I make espresso martinis when I can't be in the cascades gotcha nice Tad what about you buddy okay so I uh I have a equal ripple serum uh double India

[00:32:24] pale ale out of Middletown New York it's a 8.0 on the Richter scale and it's just kind of a smooth and mellow IPA nice smooth and mellow eight percent beer yeah eight percent Jesus yeah I I did see one at the beer store the other day and I'm going to grab it next time I'm in there it's only 6.9 yeah it's it's like double figures it's like I think 11 or 12 percent right it says right on the side don't open

[00:32:53] don't open this can near an open flame have you been seeing those reels that are going around the guys drinking this IPA and they're like dude I love this I play and they're like it's so good no I haven't oh it's so good it's I'm I'm that's that's me but that's that's me but that's that's so excellent and everybody's having something good little stuff like that so how about we break it

[00:33:17] into the uh the oh yeah sorry so uh so they are you really outdoors so mention the podcast one of your hikes through social media and we will chat about it on the at the show uh tag us by typing at itl catskill mtm podcast on your post uh so let's start it off Kate Henderson hikes was out in Indian Indian head and twin when the smoke started to roll in so it was pretty cool she started at the AQI the

[00:33:44] air quality index was 63 then later uh upon summoning is 131 and they ended it with 160 so said that plenty was harsh on the eyes sinuses and throat and she was feeling it as they went up and down the mountain and it was affecting basic basically their respiratory system and that you know once again you might think it's not too bad but it does get difficult I went up a little mountain on the day that it was around like 200 not a little mountain this was like 25 feet of elevation gain

[00:34:14] a half a mile but like seriously it just it's just so weird that you can you can actually feel it smell it stuff like that it's just it's so odd and yeah and then uh after but up before we go on kudos to Kate she's like a little over a year post her ankle fracture her trimal fracture and if you check out her uh instagram feed she is hiking up a storm so it looks like she had a pretty good recovery from that

[00:34:43] i'm sure she's still got some aches and pains but she's getting out there and bagging a lot of peaks so kudos to her definitely definitely and she was with uh shana shay 15 uh x was up on with kate uh saying that the eerie smoke filled the day with uh with uh different emotions and then she also almost ran over a porcupine on trail so they were probably just sprinting along and that little porky

[00:35:09] ran across that would have been fun that would have been great to hear about a rescue you have kate that gets the trimal fracture and then shana that has to get a porcupine punches pulled out of her so that'd be fun we'll have a show might yeah it might be better than getting attacked by or possibly attacked by a mountain lion yeah yeah i wonder what they were thinking like oh maybe this is

[00:35:31] good enough so now get on to the crazy hiker of the week probably year scott catskill mountains brew was up in new hampshire and did wildcat d wildcat a carter dome south carter middle carter and mariah and then went on a hike with beyond blazes and cam cam five and did south hancock hancock on a rest day

[00:35:57] then wrapped it up with flume liberty lincoln and lafayette and then did to try pyramids with joanne and stop at sabata day falls uh i know i missed i must have missed some of those because he said he did i think it was 28 28 peaks or 25 peaks in a matter of seven days up in the new hampshire 48 insane yeah he's up there uh crushing some mega as they say in the whites yeah what's his name crush those

[00:36:26] peaks yeah david are you your 48er right yeah yeah how do i mean how would you describe the the 48 up there amazing oh it's just it's uh it's phenomenal the bang for your buck is great uh you're not trudging through adirondack mud the trails are well cared for there's ample parking what that's hard to come by in new york um yeah now it's a good time yeah if there's ample parking it almost sounds boring

[00:36:55] yeah right you gotta you don't have to get up at 3 a.m just to get a parking space and you call that hike hiking and you don't even get your boots muddy right yeah forget about it i i told some person that uh new hampshire is basically the catskills like times two it's they have it yeah yeah i mean they the the the the elevation gains are double of the catskills and they have they have of course alpine

[00:37:21] zones and stuff like that yeah but it just it just feels like the trails are very similar like just rocky mess absolute mess that is just straight up and but not an anirondack not freaking mud and freaking going through treasures stuff like that i find the whites to be my second favorite home besides the catskills and it's just it's just like the catskills it's pleasant and the catskills is pleasant

[00:37:45] yeah and then the adirondacks suck not really they're great i've heard they're they're uh yes scott said that he loves new hampshire because the trails are awesome and there's they're steep and stuff but he also loves the adirondacks because the adirondacks had those crazy scrambles that i was gonna say maybe unpopular opinion but i think that the adirondacks are the sexier mountains to look

[00:38:10] at to be in they're just those slides yes correct yeah correct sexier mountains i like that sexy i like that yeah we had old stuff so joanne was with scott uh was also new hampshire she tagged us when she was coming down lafayette uh cam cam five was up with scott uh she also tagged different mountains like wambach flume liberty lincoln lafayette then the field willie and tom and sorry cam if i missed the

[00:38:39] post once again you guys were were crushing it up there and uh i trying to keep up and then once again i miss this uh i i'm trying to spell pata pata pin bakery was up on rusk and this is new one and apparently they posted us or they tagged us a while back and i totally missed that so i apologize

[00:39:02] and especially if i got your name wrong from your tag pata pin bakery was up on rusk also vicky vf 49 was repelling with stay rag climbing we heard i heard about that last week she tagged us last second so amazing once again that we're connecting these people to stay rag climbing to different organizations and stuff stay rag climbing is awesome so if you want to do some climbing stuff get a hold of them and

[00:39:27] they can definitely hook you up uh serena marie 46 er was up on hopkins in the adirondacks on a smoky hot day and then then did the famous east side of blackhead and then a couple days later she went up on azor fire tower so uh serena is getting out and about uh todd t-bolts outdoor went to a local spot for some therapy uh once again uh condolences uh todd on your your father glad once again you went up and you know had some

[00:39:56] alone time with your dad and hopefully enjoyed the view and he was there with you so uh todd is is amazing so also new one i think james john o'boil was up in siamese pod wilderness and did a chill overnight on puffer pond from the 13th lake uh awesome once again i hear in the hearing a new person is this big big uh smile to my face as you can see have you guys been up in siamese ponds wilderness

[00:40:24] i've seen it from good now mountain i think okay but i have a nominal area one of my favorite areas in the adirondacks just beautiful and like you said uh once you get past like the first lake whatever 13th lake it is very chill and very quiet crowds disappear but yeah beautiful area and like totally different five than than the high peaks nice well good good cool we'll have to i'm not

[00:40:50] going to promote that no that's all to us that's we're cutting that part off yeah that's for us yeah so lisa chaotic wasotic uh did mountain santa and bramley and then also tagged colvin and blake on a super hot day and then she had a rest day going up big slide and watching the sunset over heart lake man you know i i do like two hikes in and and in a week and i feel accomplished and these people are doing like eight to ten hikes in a matter of two days this is i don't think i should

[00:41:18] be running the show well i think these these folks are getting in these super long hikes because they have super long podcast episodes to listen to so it lets them you know leg out and do longer hikes multi-day hikes because if this was a half an hour podcast true maybe they would just be hiking at the local town park so by having these three hour marathon sessions we're kind of you know bringing

[00:41:45] it to a new level for them to go out and bang out you know 46 or 48 peaks and in one shot yeah one freaking day yeah i'm just saying we're a couple days and i'm just saying true true all right so uh hiker joey and why did mount colden be lake arnold on a beautiful day chrissy g was up in the rs one thing i i i appreciate everybody tagging us when they're

[00:42:10] out of the catskills this is great chrissy g was up in rainbow falls you say that but when you when you scan back over the list less than half of the hikes maybe a third are in the catskills yes a lot of them a lot of them are in the adk or new hampshire okay so i'm just pointing that out it's dry so they got to get up there before all this much much shit happens and they i mean the

[00:42:34] mud happened in the spring but like they're like god we got to hit these now or it's gonna suck like david knows that you're a 46er aren't you yep what aren't you yeah i don't know well no so he's he's i get the i get the impression david's done so many lists that he had to make up his own that's you're i mean that guilty you're not guilty guilty as charged i do i like a good list

[00:43:02] uh and uh there's been a couple lists that i've done where i'm like man i could do better than that there you go yeah nice no you have a list and uh she was also up at rosa gap fire tower too so um once again i appreciate everybody tagging us outside of the catskills uh andy brownski hike hook mountain from nyack beach and saw copperhead and cacti rare cacti so that's pretty cool david you've been up there that's on my list that's on my list hook mountain was it oh yeah

[00:43:31] looks like andy's andy's doing the list and he's on his way he wants to steal all of your followers i hope so dude i love it i think it's phenomenal uh and last but not nice mike at red hand adventure guys did indian uh head lake in the adirondacks so everybody's up joining the beautiful anaerobic so they think they wanted to stay out the air quality of the catskill so don't blame them i do not blame them going closer to the fire yes that works yeah well that's you know that's how

[00:43:58] our listeners think the fires were out west they're they're west the west northwest no yeah but you if you listen to enough of these episodes you actually think that water flows uphill and the physics don't exist when you're hiking uphill ah you know there's very rare occurrences that it does flow north and that's the skaharie creek did you know that yeah the river right in front of

[00:44:23] my house flows north yeah see it's crazy it's very few there's very few but anyway wow all right i just uh idiot on my forehead but anyway so if you want to buy us a hard cider to support the show do it by going on buymeacoffee.com buy us a hard cider i renamed it and thank you alex ramo for the three hard ciders after his awesome episode last week talking about doing the cat skill trying the cat skill diartissima and uh unfortunately have them to bail so we were looking forward to seeing you

[00:44:52] do this again so we'll have you probably on the show again he said he's definitely not done three's a charm yeah also rate the show five stars or more is what we accept that's it i will deny anything else rate them anywhere so previous hikes david what do you got for us what are you up to oh um so it's been pretty feast famine for for my hiking this year um we've done a lot of

[00:45:22] big things and then in between it's just local keeping tabs on my mountains um so this past weekend i was in the hudson hudson highlands checking out uh something that's in the works what we can talk about later uh some some peaks that will be on the website soon uh and some new things that are happening on those mountains like kind of hot off the press so i was doing some some recon this

[00:45:49] weekend in the hudson islands oh stay tuned everybody's yeah because they're most of them are from the hudson's the hudson valley are on the edge of their seat like oh shit a new list let's go he just he just baited the whole audience yeah everybody's like you know turning up the volume right now so without going into absolute crazy detail david what was your last like peak that you uh went to like i'm not saying like catskills out or uh anywhere what was your last like you and

[00:46:16] bachy did so recently so i mean i i get out every day to to hike our our local local hills around here so i mean even just today i was out out in the woods but um over the weekend we i was in a reservation in the eastern hudson valley called uh ward pound river bridge reservation nice awesome awesome private area it's not not state land it's a part of the county i think it's the county's

[00:46:46] largest park but yeah so there's some there's some cool things happening in that reservation that will greatly change hiking for the area that's so awesome i want to i wanted to see it with my own eyes and i did yeah cool cool so how about you ted you wanted to uh state this uh you know that you're

[00:47:08] this is good my my excursions i'll just start off by framing them as excursions recently have had me ponder what it is that actually is a hike as opposed to going for a walk uh so when i was out on saturday and sunday uh i kind of did the same hike both days you know mohonk minnewaska is just a stone's

[00:47:35] throw from where i live so i drove over there saturday and the rain came so i didn't do the full loop but on sunday i went over and i did the over carriage undercarriage loop uh which is about 5.4 miles but i wondered if i was really hiking doing that because i mean it's as much as you can manicure

[00:47:56] a trail yeah you could take a baby stroller on this okay uh traction's never a problem uh you really don't need any special gear or anything of that nature and it's not much different than my walks up the road at the local town park over the same pretty much you know crushed stone imported stone

[00:48:20] surface uh and so i looked up when i got back i looked up on google ai and they they have like this whole thing is they typically do with anything you ask google ai but they had like this whole like decision tree you go through to decide when it's a hike and when you're just out for a walk and if you wanted to spend 20 minutes going through that decision tree we could but i thought

[00:48:45] i just kind of speeded along and took the executive summary that they give you in terms of distinguishing between a walk and a hike so it says google ai says if you can do it comfortably in regular street shoes which i was wearing without carrying water and i wasn't carrying water we're looking at a map

[00:49:07] and i wasn't looking at a map it's almost certainly a walk the moment you need a uh trail tread shoe extra prep an eye on elevation a map things of that nature special gear you're on a hike so so what comes to you're wearing are those people that climb sugarloaf and the cad skills wearing their cad sneakers and carrying maybe a water bottle at best but not a map or anything else

[00:49:36] are they walking are they walking but stosh because he's got 55 pounds of unnecessary gear is he hiking when he walks through the walmart parking lot in his hiking boots i mean yeah i don't yeah you know i guess it's really subjective so yeah apparently i haven't been hiking i've only been walking uh if you were to ask google ai but what i did do is this weekend was symbolic for the first time in

[00:50:02] almost two months that i kind of stepped on a trail for what might be a hike or might not be a hike but it certainly felt good to get out there and do something other than the local town park so that's my story i'm going to have a swig of my ipa and you can move along cheers cheers to that yeah right dude it's it's all about you know gaining steps gaining uh little traction on what's going on

[00:50:27] you know you had a a traumatic injury and now it's you know you're coming back you're coming back to life you're starting to get out and now i hike with those little slip-on shoes that i put on with my long shoehorn because i can't bend down and tie shoelaces uh you know i am 43 years old and i have done that before all right shut up no so so now that i think about it maybe uh when i go on the next

[00:50:50] walk slash hike i should bring my shower stool with me in case i have to like you know dig a cat hole and stuff that's a little that's a little out there is it out there or a diaper so yeah yeah yeah hey real men don't hike in diapers okay yeah right so now that you say that i can't say that i was on a previous hike so i had previous walks you did a walk a walk yeah well yeah after

[00:51:15] the concert uh which was sunday so that's the usual day off we went and saw 311 and the dirty heads uh reggae stuff i mean most people really cool 311 dirty heads are phenomenal david i hate to ask this but was coheed and cambria tonight it was we decided against it because they weren't opening thank god okay i was just like i thought of that i was like fuck i hope i didn't fucking schedule

[00:51:40] but no good good so uh after that jessica was just like you know i i know that right around the corner is green lakes let's try that i was like oh hell yeah green lakes if anybody's ever heard of green lakes up in syracuse it's a very unique lake so this lake is that super deep glacial lake yes yeah it's over doesn't really circulate yeah it stays cold okay i know the place over over

[00:52:06] 197 feet deep and the once again like you said it doesn't mix so this is a nice turquoise blue color not like your glacial fed lakes you know glacial flower stuff that you have in the cascades and and canada but it has an amazing like tint to it that is just unreal beautiful two mile flat paved

[00:52:30] stroll around the whole lake beautiful day 74 degrees um at one end you can swim in it at the other ends you can't because you know this it's this is one of i found out this is the most heavily studied lakes in the world that they study the crap out of this because once again they have the you know we have a bunch of we had syracuse corning uh a bunch of awesome universities up here that study

[00:52:56] this and it's just also so rare like this is one of the the rarest forms of lakes in the world that they study it and it was just really cool to be there you know i wouldn't i mean it was a monday it wasn't too crowded and it was it was fun they have you know just places you know you can stop and take a rest take pictures cool little areas that look like you know once again like there's a part that you see and then it just drops off complete drop so i'm sitting there i'm just like you know

[00:53:25] i i do want to jump in and it all over the place it says no swimming i'm like oh damn it but um it was it was pretty cool and then uh after that we went down to 20 minutes away south to that uh shit and angle falls 197 foot waterfall uh that is just right off of the freaking road in some gorge and that's it like it seriously is nice and flat river and then it's a massive waterfall that you know a half a mile

[00:53:55] like a quarter of a mile hike total beautiful beautiful spot got to see it was flowing nicely and then we came home and passed out because we were tired i mean it's a lot of drinking uh dirty heads and 311 311 has been around since the early 90s i've been a fan of theirs since homebrews and stuff like that that's 1993 and then they came out with a 311 like down there's

[00:54:23] their self-titled is is 1995 yikes and they're still killing it with the same exact lineup that they had from the beginning you very rarely hear that that all those band members have stayed together for that long of a time so where'd you see the show uh up at the lakeview amphitheater right outside of the uh state fairgrounds okay i recommend that that sounds like a cool venue definitely indoors

[00:54:52] half indoors and then it has the lawn just like this back up and off just like bethel woods you know but i i think this is a little bit cooler because it has we we weren't in the the pit area but they have a pit area so you can go up there and stand just phenomenal time phenomenal time and did the missus enjoy herself she had a good time definitely did and she enjoyed not climbing high peaks like i i recommend yes yes so we'll get her back into that we'll get her back into that so

[00:55:20] awesome uh so i mean i mean besides we were all not really on hikes so that's that's ridiculous i don't know for me it was it was as close to a hike as i'm going to get to for a while so correct i'm going to call it a hike i could give a shit what google ai calls it to me that was one hell of a hike man good and the scenery is gorgeous there so oh yeah yeah yeah yeah definitely definitely so good uh catskill news volunteer new york new jersey trail conference

[00:55:48] catskill 3500 club catskill trail crew catskill mountain club visitors center jolly rovers trail crew family mountain fire tower anywhere you can i'll volunteer please do it uh if you need stickers get a hold of me they are free and then we'll talk about some stickers later on with this special guy so let's break it into the amazingly inaccurate weather forecast here is your weekend weather

[00:56:16] forecast sponsored by but not really sponsored by the check once again check out far and high outdoor co will be talking with david later on about his awesome stickers of catskill canister catskill 35 elevation signs and a bunch of others for the catskills definitely recommend checking them out so for this weekend expect a beautiful weekend for climbing high peaks on friday july 24th expect clear

[00:56:41] skies throughout the day a high of 63 a low of 57 and wind chills only reaching down to 54 degrees beautiful day to be out hiking on saturday july 25th expect clear skies again with a high of 64 a low of 57 and wind chills only going down to 55 degrees beautiful day to be out on sunday july 26th

[00:57:09] expect clear skies in the morning breaking to some clouds in the afternoon and two possible rain showers at night a high of 64 a low of 61 and a wind chill going down to 59 degrees beautiful weekend to get out and grab some some peaks anywhere in new york just remember when you are out there to be safe be prepared and don't become

[00:57:32] tomorrow's rescue story have at it fellas so let's get on to the last set of sponsors and then we'll get on to david so discover camp catskill in tannersville your ultimate hiking store find top quality gear apparel and accessories for all your outdoor adventures our expert staff is here to help every hiker from beginners to seasoned pros we also carry a unique variety of catskill souvenirs and gifts visit us

[00:58:00] online at camp catskill.co or in the store to gear up for your next journey adventure starts at camp cat skills also embark on a transformative journey with another summit another summit is dedicated to serving veterans and first responders with free outdoor activities activities like walks in nature paddling hiking and even backpacking join a supportive community to rejuvenate in nature's embrace

[00:58:26] experience commodity adventure and healing at no cost take your next step with another summit and ascend to new heights of resilience and joy apply today at another summit.org let's get on to the guest of the night so david perez creator of new york state new york downstate 28 i've messed that up all the time

[00:58:50] david i'm so sorry it is new york downstate 28 uh challenge in the downstate area of course hudson valley region we're talking about a new challenge that could connect people with the mountains start them off with the mountains and then get them introverted maybe into the high peaks and stuff like that but david's starting it all with us and he's here with us tonight to talk about that challenge so welcome to the show

[00:59:15] david how are you doing tonight good good thanks for having me i'm excited i'm on the i'm on the kind of behind behind the scenes where the sausage is made i've been listening to your podcast for a while now mm-hmm so here i am in the hot seat yeah i want to call it the hot seat but you you've had the uh espresso martini maybe that's what it is maybe that's why i'm why i've got the hot seat that i made it quite strong but same same i don't i don't have air conditioning here so if i'm like i'm like

[00:59:43] god damn i'm sweating i look like i look ridiculous so i mean uh now baki your your wife was on the on like the fifth episode so she has a organization out there is that still going yeah yeah for sure um she it's actually pretty much defined the last three four years of her life um so her

[01:00:09] when she was on podcast she was talking about her at the time brand spanking new uh non-profit climb he'll overcome that um connects people that were victims of sexual and domestic assault uh with transformative outdoor adventures uh especially rock climbing and mountaineering and that work that she's done through that organization has pretty much changed her entire trajectory of of going back to

[01:00:36] school um getting her master's in psychology um and informing the work that she plans on doing uh for a very long time so yeah she's doing great things and maybe it's all as a benefit to to your podcast and you know all the all the people that heard it i did like i try not i don't want to break away from that but i would just like to say you know you have been involved with the podcast

[01:01:01] your you you and baki have been involved with the podcast almost ever since the beginning so i really appreciate that you know once again it's just it's phenomenal to to hear the connections that are that is made between us and you know the podcast and you know with baki and what you guys do you know i know you're a big part of that so uh i appreciate what you do and stuff like that um and that's it's great

[01:01:24] to hear good congratulates baki i really appreciate it so now i want to get into digging in to a little background about yourself now we've we've talked about you you've kind of been all over the place so let's start out your beginning or your early life and stuff like that how'd you get into this crazy cat skills or that cat cat skill goddamn you know what the cat skills is is pretty much where it

[01:01:51] started so i mean i did not grow up an outdoorsy kid we were city folks through and through as a matter of fact i really wouldn't say that i was in the outdoors until college i took a bunch of biology courses and this uh ecology course that had us out in the woods behind william patterson university

[01:02:13] every every day and we we turned over rocks and looked for frogs and identified trees and i had an absolute blast it was in in that moment that i was like okay i need to play outside more and uh that kind of just shifted the trajectory for me i was outdoors from then on um full grown adult you know

[01:02:37] looking for frogs but yeah since then it was it was just uh a passion just being outside um and then i feel like i i took the the trajectory that a lot of people in the kind of greater metro area take they start hiking in their local hills and move to things like the hudson highlands and then they just keep

[01:03:02] traveling up state new york and find themselves in the cat skills where it's a slippery slope and that then you're then you're hooked and did that is that what got you like hooked on to you know you moved from downstate cat skills and then you moved to addirondack new hampshire and then from there on it was a goddamn i don't even know what it is it's just it's just a cascade of uh of events and i remember

[01:03:28] one of our first hikes that bucky and i took together one cool thing is that we we pretty much fell in love with the mountains together you know before that i was just doing little parks and like i said looking for frogs but i mean we used to go out and just catch frogs and name salamanders and have a blast like that but we took a hike in the hudson hudson valley uh called storm king mountain um and from there you

[01:03:53] can on a clear day which we had you can see the cat skills and perfectly the the silhouette of the eastern devil's path and i was like we need to go there uh and we did and we just been going back ever since it's amazing that people you know will see it from storm king and then you know we'll think that to go up there they climb one peak and then like yeah we'll go up to the adirondacks and they totally

[01:04:21] either that or people totally skip the catskills and just go straight up the adirondacks just because they're higher because there's more exposure and stuff like that so it's i'm glad you you came over to the catskills and enjoyed it for sure and it was funny when we first went to the catskills um we're like wow we're gonna climb slide mountain and i was like wait a minute we are out of our league that's slide mountain that's the highest peak in the catskills we better we better reign it in a little bit so we did hunter we're like we're not ready for the highest peak we'll do hunter so we

[01:04:51] went up hunter but becker hollow and uh yeah it was it was a butt kicking kind of trial baptism by fire into the into the cast skills nice i'd say that's harder than going up slide from from the trail well ignorance is bliss we didn't know better we had a blast in our jeans you know just right up to the top and our jeans nice they're hiking jeans i can khakis but i mean yeah nice but you know going up hunter

[01:05:18] mountain the payoff is better when you get to the summit because you have the fire tower and then afterwards i think there's better eateries you know within a few miles of your car from becker hollow than it slide that's not to say i mean what is it the slide mountain then has a little pizza place inside you got great pizza there so oh upstate pizza yeah now you have also you know you've done

[01:05:43] the cat skills we talked about you being a 48er and stuff like that i mean you've been all over north america like yeah where where have you have you been you cascades you know you've done mount hood i remember you recently did a backpacking excursion over like off of the coast of california correct uh we've done a few so maybe uh you're thinking the trans catalina trail that's in southern off the

[01:06:10] coast of southern california phenomenal backpacking trip uh very pedestrian wonderful like first time backpack because it's set up for backpacking and just like a just a wild ride it's so california because you take a expensive ferry across and then you're kind of in the wilds but there's resorts in your resupply you know so it's it's just well and there's there's bison on the island it's just a weird cool

[01:06:38] vibe but yeah no we've we've been fortunate to to do a lot of traveling like i said it was a slippery slope from the catskills we haven't slowed down since um and when we ran out of things to do around here we set our sights out west and more lists i said we like to do lists so there's always a list coming up and growing are you doing like the uh what is it continuous 48 like highest or stuff so

[01:07:09] bucky is um i we decided pretty early on that we wanted to visit the high point in every state uh not knowing at the time what what that entailed and that started with new york i mean you're standing on top of uh mount marcy in new york and you're like okay there's the highest peak in new york and from there you can on a clear day you can make out vermont and you're like oh maybe i'll go to the high point of vermont and you just keep hopping along and next thing you know you're you're knee

[01:07:38] deep in in a challenge that will take the better part of a lifetime and require a skill set in its own right so um we've been doing that that's informed a lot of our travel is uh doing the high points of every state and it's been one of the most rewarding experiences that that we could have imagined just visiting the country and seeing people in place with our own eyes especially you know now

[01:08:05] in today's climate everything's hearsay and everyone has an opinion on stuff so to get out and see our country with your own eyes is is uh really empowering and very uh restored faith in humanity and so uh it's been it's been a wild ride for sure wow so let's pick it up from there uh you've been

[01:08:28] all these places you're working on uh hiking the highest point in each and every state which i assume either has included or will include hawaii um yes it's one of the ones we need and then eventually going to alaska right okay yep so wow so so far where is it that you have been

[01:08:54] that has been the most empowering most eye-opening most awakening place that you've been and you can say if you want you can say double top mountain we would understand that you could just move on or you could go with something more esoteric than double top well i think that um one of the neat

[01:09:19] things about doing a challenge like that is the variety of place not i mean us is so varied uh so the variety of place is just so unique that you can kind of have your mini epiphanies over and over and over again we never thought that we would enjoy the midwest as much as we have we never thought that

[01:09:45] we would enjoy the desert southwest as much as we've had so yeah just it's been just a wonderful ride there's there's very little that we haven't enjoyed and we can talk about the ones that weren't enjoyable but uh by and large yeah yeah so let's you know not in general terms but why don't we in in like some

[01:10:07] specific instances uh relate to our listeners uh those places and i i do you you said the southwest my daughter who is my older daughter who's very well traveled uh both domestically and around uh i'm not going to say the globe but several continents now she says the most fantastic place on earth

[01:10:31] is the southwest particularly death valley so where is it yeah so where is it you found is like the the most in the we'll say the continental united states the most eye-opening off the chart jaw-dropping experience that you've had that you would love to go back to where is that that place and why was it so

[01:10:57] transformative or it would probably have to be somewhere in utah uh i know that earlier in this podcast i said that i i love the pacific northwest and the north cascades that does have my heart but utah is i think everything about america kind of squished into a little square and no matter which

[01:11:22] way you go there is just the most epic adventure i mean you had south from salt lake city and you got the grand canyon you had east and you got the wasatch you had west and you've got like just endless nevada mountains nevada is the most mountainous state in the u.s uh you go north and you're in just crazy um idaho terrain it's it's it makes your head spin just how how varied it is because i mean

[01:11:50] here in the northeast i can drive for six six and a half hours to get to the white mountains um and those mountains they look like a bigger version of the mountains that i passed get into it but when you go to utah you just pick a direction and it's going to be entirely different yeah yeah i totally get that i spent that time last year out and uh i'm going to say death valley national park and beyond which is death valley national park is uh a number of valleys not just death

[01:12:18] valley yes and you you know you in one day can go through three different valleys and you know different mountain ranges and it's so diverse and so unique and just so different than what you encounter on the east coast but let's go back to the east coast then with you david yes you've been all these tremendous places and then you come back always to the east coast where you live and you

[01:12:44] you hike extensively in the east coast particularly and i'm going to call with the the mid hudson hudson valley and what i would like to hear from you given these diverse hiking experiences is there any difference amongst the hikers the hiking etiquette in the hudson valley from you can be truthful be truthful yes there's no nobody's listening now nobody's listening now just speak freely how how are

[01:13:12] hudson valley hikers different if at all from hikers right so i think that hudson valley hikers are and i'm gonna i'm i'm sorry to brag but i think hudson valley hikers are the best hikers i think they're the most motivated hikers we know that being in the mountains takes work um and that's why you get all of your amazing fans that you know they live in the hudson valley and they're they're willing to drive

[01:13:38] a portion of their weekend just to uh sink their teeth into something worthwhile so i think that the hudson valley breeds a lot of uh very motivated hikers uh talented athletes well-rounded human beings that just have a have a good head on their shoulders i mean we live in the the most populous place and you spend your time very close in proximity to a lot of other people and i think your

[01:14:06] worldview becomes as big as as this place chase you get a lot of truly kind people uh that do really epic yeah and you know i'd like to have like kind of echo on that is just you know a lot of when you have the most populous place you know the the we have a lot of influence here you know once someone

[01:14:31] gets out and you know goes upon you know like you said storm king mountain uh they move themselves upon the you know your challenge with the catskills and stuff they kind of influence the other people about leave no trace they influence we have the like the most impact on that to where you know like you said out west you have you know salt lake city you know like people might get bikers it's yes i mean

[01:14:55] despite being within a half hour of 10 000 foot alpine mountains it's just it's not a hiking city um you know very mormon city but not not a hiking vibe different vibe but yeah no i i think that the greater metro area is is very in tune with the mountains because we kind of we're among the mountains as small as they may be you know we're right on top of these these these hills um and we don't even

[01:15:23] think about it you know when you think about the catskills you you picture mountains but like we have rugged terrain here too um and we just don't battle ash we we embrace the rock and go up yeah and then that's way different than the out west out west has it easy right you got to admit david you know don't don't deny it there i mean they they appreciate a good switchback for sure out west

[01:15:49] it's just it's it's different apples and oranges it is but still like you go to take somebody out west you know we're talking you know sierras you know switchbacks galore stuff like that and then you bring them out here to the whites to where you got a fucking battle two three thousand foot elevation gains in two miles like that is a bitch with rocks slippery rock ah i i love telling people that like

[01:16:19] they're i mean you know you have been out out there more than i than i have but uh still like nothing the northeast sucks like you're like god damn these these switchbacks are nice these steps are nice and then you got the northeast where you're like god damn going up to take the guillotine shelter

[01:16:41] or freaking stuff like that it's just the battle in itself yeah i mean it's just a wildly different terrain our our old mountains they're weathered and they don't they don't take no yeah exactly and and you know we don't give a we're taking we're telling people that you got to battle this mountain to get this peak oh yeah or you're not going to get it at all so suck it up go out west grab some 14 000

[01:17:07] footer that you can get and try to battle this 6 000 footer out here that has the most uh craziest weather in the in the world suck it all right so um tad let's uh you you can go on with this hudson now this is you the hudson valley stuff it's you this is not my stuff yeah so i was excited to see that he's kind of he's he's local yeah yeah i'm you know i'm i'm local to the hudson valley but i don't do much hiking in the hudson valley that's why i have these hudson valley centric

[01:17:37] questions because it it intrigues me um given that i'm kind of like 50 50 in terms of i could drive to harriman state park and those areas like west of the or east of the hudson river and hike there or right in my backyard is the gunks which i rarely go to anymore other than now that i'm recovering from an injury and i'm doing these walks if you will and i'm drawn to because of the convenience and

[01:18:07] the you know this like the intimacy of the the deep woods the uh boreal forests of the catskills but i have gone gone a few times into harriman state park and the surrounds to hike and i do pick up a different vibe um and it is it it's completely different wooded area than the catskills to me uh the effects of the glacier there you know are just noticeably different but one of the things i'd like to know

[01:18:35] is if in the progression let's say of my recovery if i start going over and maybe the next challenge i knock off is the a downstater 28 what is it that i don't normally have when i go catskill hiking that i would bring with me hiking in the mid hudson and lower hudson valley what's the as i put it on the

[01:18:58] list here what is the 11th essential wow i think it would be a second hike nice nice like a double header to a day is that what you're saying yeah for sure um well and that's that's multifaceted you've got one it's a it's a busy place uh so parking's not guaranteed although i did try to account for that in

[01:19:24] my challenge and then too a lot of these peaks are smaller they're pretty uniform in size so a lot of the peaks are within the 900 to 1600 foot range most of them do require about a thousand vertical give or take um just because there's a lot of prominence here and a lot of these peaks they jut up out of the hudson and they just go straight up but yeah you got that that it's it's uniform yeah

[01:19:48] you know i think the 11th essential of anybody would be a hard cider or a beer right that's true too yeah i mean yeah well yeah so so speaking kind of like of ciders we'll talk about fluids um i think on the east coast i don't think it's such a big thing at least when i was with my daughter in the deaf valley area it wasn't a thing at all but on the east coast is very much a thing

[01:20:16] to be not necessarily forest fire conscious but bug conscious was it nat season black fly season mosquito season what what is the the bug situation in the hudson valley particularly the 28 hikes that are on your list what do we yeah what do we need to be on guard for in terms of bugs what's the bug

[01:20:40] seasons give us the low down yeah bugs and hiking in the hudson valley well we have the the same climate um as the catskills on a on a micro scale so when the when the bugs are bad in the catskills they were probably bad three weeks ago in the hudson valley and on a smaller scale um you're not going to get

[01:21:05] eaten alive uh and that may be just because you're you're moving through the terrain a little bit faster too i like like bugs never bother me just because i'm i'm fast you can you can out you can outrun most bugs uh but yeah no it's it's it's a lot of the same i think that's that's one nice thing is that you're not going to be in over your head in the in the hudson valley especially if you're already hiking in the

[01:21:31] catskills it's going to feel very comfortable um it might feel it's going to feel a little bit more urban you know you're we from just about every 28 or in the park you can you can see the manhattan skyline or you can see your your beloved catskills so sometimes you can see both or or you or you can hear the motorcycles whizzing by or you can hear them yeah if you're climbing west mountain for example don't expect a good night's sleep at the shelter because there will be someone doing donuts in the

[01:21:58] anthony wain rec area parking lot for sure there you go but uh yeah no it's it it's it's a place where people um they they fall in love with putting in good hard work in the mountains i think that that if we talked about culture because we have our smaller mountains you have to work to make make a full day in these mountains so there's a lot of stringing together a lot of peaks uh doing big

[01:22:25] traverses uh we have a lot of long distance trails and paramon for example the shuttle services so people are even though the mountains are smaller they're they're they're working hard uh and you can work hard that the vertical adds up very quickly you can get five and six thousand foot days in these mountains wow you just have to be determined yeah a lot of you know a lot of people start off i mean it sounds weird but they start off with the catskills and then they come back to the hudson valley area and

[01:22:54] they realize you know hey i just did like you said becker hollow two thousand uh two thousand two hundred feet in a matter of two miles what can i do in the hudson valley that equals that and it's like you know three or four of your your challenges you know like or two of your challenges so i mean but that's awesome you know it's phenomenal and uh yeah so now let's look before we get into your challenge

[01:23:19] i'm gonna show people on this and i'm gonna post this on instagram because i love this your stickers that you have here let's see if i can get them that why isn't that coming up look at that everybody god damn this sticker that is a canister there well i'll i'm gonna hold up uh i don't have a beer so but i'll

[01:23:41] there it is canister 3500 club elevation thing so this your company your new company far and high outdoors co sells these beautiful stickers of the catskill canister and the 3500 elevation foot sign and a bunch of other stuff on far out and high on etsy um dude you told me about this and i was

[01:24:06] like i've never seen a canister on my car a canister on my freaking my my my nail gene bottle like this is amazing like i am so excited about this yep i had a blast making them i had a blast making them too are they proportionately size that they do feel fit on a nail gene oh yeah well so right now they only come in one size so they better um and they're they're three inches so they look good on analogy

[01:24:33] and they'll look a little small on your vehicle but i'm gonna have some yeah i will have some other sizes there's also going to be some magnets that yeah i'm having fun of them my cat may make an appearance there she is oh what's the cat's name siren siren nice nice so once again uh 3500 god i don't know why this light is not doing well got the world's best lighting there yeah right oh well

[01:25:01] it's a goddamn selfie thing but 3500 uh the canister beautiful stuff uh get them on far far and high outdoor co on etsy i'll have the link in the show notes i'm gonna post the link when we when we post this to the social media because i'm super excited about that nobody's ever put a canister thing out and it's the canister is really important uh to to us hikers of 3500 peaks and stuff like that

[01:25:26] signing into the canister is just an accomplishment in itself you know where else do you get to do that besides you know david i know you've been out with uh those those high peaks over down in the western mountains where you have the uh what are they called uh ammo cans yeah yeah up in the middle of of nowhere and stuff like like who can say that they've been up to at around that high peak or for up into vermont or new hampshire and signed in and wrote something to the next person and advice

[01:25:55] you know it's great they have can they have canisters on a lot of the some another challenge is that that new england hundred higher hundred highest peaks and a lot of those are bushwhacks and um they they have canisters too and they they suck they're really thin and puny and they just don't have have the uh the allure also i love the orange of the new canisters i mean i remember searching for

[01:26:22] those gray canisters when i did my 35 but the orange canisters full yeah you see that and that's their heartbeat you're like yes yes i'm here i made it yeah do you remember your first canister yeah what was do you remember my first canister it was probably something very uh forgettable like like eagle or something like that we we were very we were very like uh

[01:26:48] take this step by step you got to go easy before you know you got to walk before you fly did eagle have a canister 10 years ago i believe it did it did it really yeah i remember it was probably the gray canisters yeah my first my first canister was hawket how about you stosh rusk rusk rusk was my i i mean it was short it was easy you know my first bushwhack with other compass

[01:27:17] stuff like that so that's so check it out far and high outdoors co on etsy link will be in the show notes so let's move on to the the crazy topic in the night the new york downstate 28 challenge so this challenge is starting to gain traction we've had a couple finishers i know t bold todd has has done it joe kaplow jay kaplow has done it uh joe kaplowski uh what made you think of this this

[01:27:47] challenge this is uh this is a pretty important especially downstate yeah so i mean the the easy answer is that like why hasn't this already happened i mean that there's such a big hiking community in in the hudson valley um these peaks are climbed by thousands of people every weekend the fact that it doesn't already exist is kind of mind-boggling um but for me personally when just you know we've been

[01:28:16] all over the place but during the pandemic our world shrank just like everyone else's immensely and all of a sudden these mountains that we had looked over to go to you know bigger and wilder adventures now were our day-to-day they were our our lifeline to staying sane just like everyone else i mean everyone was outside so it was it was kind of finding these mountains again during the pandemic that made me really realize

[01:28:44] that connection that i had to these mountains um and want to uh maybe even just for me like kind of immortalize them in some kind of amazing way and what way have i immortalized a lot of the peaks that i've done is like with these these beautiful patches and tackling these lists and challenges um so yeah it started as a project for for me to just see like if i could make a little challenge of the highlights

[01:29:12] of the area what would that be and it just grew and i i let it fester i turned it into reconnaissance missions looking for the best best peaks i turned over every rock and stone in the hudson valley making this challenge it took don't say that to the dc don't be saying that i turned them back over but um yeah no it was a fun labor of love uh just really diving deep into the area after it being something

[01:29:42] that you know was kind of always there for me yeah and something coming out of it which was the new york downstate 28. so how long did it take you to like do this kind of like work like like you know your website the reconnaissance yes you know actual like like statistics it takes a while for sure and like i i'm not good at many things but i am very calculated so um i do like to

[01:30:10] do my due diligence and research immensely um so mostly it was just that i started during the pandemic pondering up what something like this would look like and then went from there uh it was in the past two years that it really kind of took a nice shape and then i launched it uh last year or beginning of this year actually maybe um and it's slowly but surely getting some buds now and i'm excited and

[01:30:39] then you recently like to go social media who doesn't go social media first and then announce it come on so this has been that's been the one thing that's a challenge um i don't do social media at all um outrageous outrageous but it turns out it's kind of important nowadays um so being able to get the challenge out to people in that way has been probably my biggest learning curve i in my head

[01:31:08] i was like oh yeah people are hiking these mountains and i'm just going to tell them that this exists and they're all going to do it but turns out i have to follow algorithms and it's a make friends and but it's been enjoyable it's been it's been fun and it's it's exciting to see people receptive to the challenge so yeah it's growing it is but surely it's fantastic and you know once again uh you know ted how many times have i said this you know social media it's a double-edged

[01:31:37] sword like you could think this it's the first time i'm hearing you say this come on don't it normally you're like the social media snob you know you're totally into it i'd love i i do but i i hate it and it's once again like like it's you know i've that that that jump that i had into that clear water i've received like death threats like from it like how you dare you do that i'm gonna

[01:32:07] beat the shit out of you next time i see you i'm like dude i didn't even give away the location and then you know once again it's just but then i also with the podcast tad and i we teach need to leave no trace we teach you know not to give away crazy locations if we do you know once again leave no trace and stuff and that's what the hardship that comes with social media now i understand i understand where you're coming from david you know with this you know especially downstate when you

[01:32:36] have seven million people within you know an hour of where the this challenge is that's that's a that's a tough thing but you know like once again let's ask you david did you think about that did you did you in formulating the list and doing it obviously with the intent and purpose of um getting the word out

[01:32:59] there that there was this challenge and getting people to do it um did you have like a moral debate going on in your head is this a good thing making these you know uh hiking these mountains hiking this terrain is it a good thing to make it more popular than it already is or that it's naturally progressing to be i'm gonna you know throw this out there as a catalyst maybe i shouldn't do this

[01:33:25] uh did you have that debate going on in your head so tell us about that yeah uh i don't i i there was a thought in my head but i don't think it was ever something that i thought i could possibly be on the the wrong side of and that's because unlike uh the fragile ecosystems of the catskills um one nice thing

[01:33:48] about these these hudson these hudson valley peaks is that they have been set up for the numbers i'm not going to generate more traffic i'm these people are already hiking these mountains i'm giving them a badge of honor for playing in these mountains um yeah i don't i don't think that my my challenge is

[01:34:12] going to generate increased traffic for example to breakneck ridge or or bear mountain these are these are areas that see millions of people here literally they're already up at this yeah one of them has its own train stop doesn't it like you don't even need to take that you take the train right to the and that's actually and that's actually by design too uh it actually they've done studies where to see the number of people that were coming off by train and um it's a it's a sizable chalk

[01:34:41] um which is great because it creates uh less bottleneck on the roads they at the time they didn't have the the resources for for parking but yeah people that come on come off the train and this is this is not something new either uh in building the challenge i got to dive deep into the history of the hudson highlands which i love i know i know stash you love looking at the history of the catskills uh but you know you get your peaks like uh mount beacon uh we have south beacon mountain on the on the

[01:35:10] challenge as there are beautiful fire tower but um beacon mountain has had lots of uh ways for people to take the train and come visit them out and i mean this is going back to the 1920s and 30s they had an incline railway that went up right at the side of the mountain so you could hop off the train in newberg take the ferry across the beacon ride your train to the top and there was a little casino and hotel up top and you spend your money and then when you're done you reverse it and you go back to

[01:35:39] the city so this is something that's been part of the region for as long as as long as people have been playing in these mountains so i'm not i don't i don't think i'm generating any more traffic to these mountains and if anything i'm encouraging people to um broaden their their horizon so there's more to the hudson hudson valley than just your your bare mountains and your your breakneck ridges um and i've designed the challenge so that there is a mix of these are your classic peaks

[01:36:06] um these are the ones that you've probably done already you know and for good reason they're phenomenal they're they're classics for a reason but then here's an here's another little park or off to the side that is phenomenal you're going to have it to yourself and even with even with my challenge even with more people going there there's there's room for for growth there and room to to kind of breathe yeah so you're you're getting people you're like dispersing the traffic you're

[01:36:32] getting people to yeah broaden the horizons and uh get around and explore the region and maybe this is a good segue to what i call the rapid fire round of questions okay so i've got uh one through seven and let's start at number one what is the most well known on the list of 28 i'd have to say among the

[01:36:57] general public that would probably be bear mountain bear mountain is the second most popular state park in in new york i was gonna say new york it's gotta be new york besides walkins glenn yeah i think the first most oh niagara yeah it might be niagara yeah so i mean this is this is an area that sees millions of

[01:37:19] people a year wow and people complain about overlook i was thinking about that because i looked at like you know what is the traffic on something like the cataroscoped walls and i i couldn't find the most recent study but it was something like like 57 000 in one summer um but that was a few years back but i mean we we can do that in a weekend at bear mountain so pretty wild just just a different

[01:37:46] different volume entirely but that's probably the most popular i mean and for like it's for good reason it's phenomenal right bear mountain has 360 degree views there's a there's a fire lookout or former fire lookout uh at the top it's a stone structure that's open in the summer and spring you can also there's a there's a road right to the top you can drive to the summit and there's beautiful benches views all around that's one of your places where you can see the manhattan skyline and

[01:38:14] you can also see the catskills you can see the hudson river phenomenal deserves to be number one yeah um yeah it's it's uh my daughters and i i we hiked up bear mountain way way way back when they were young both younger than 10 years and it's it's the mountain i took them up to for their first sunset like it was phenomenal for the two of them okay question number two which of the 28 is the

[01:38:44] least well known so i put two peaks on the list that um it seems a lot of people had not done prior um one of them is um snake hill that's in newberg right in the middle of the city so it's it's a very urban mountain gorgeous view and then the other one is in westchester county

[01:39:09] that's um turkey mountain uh and it's got its own little preserve point perfect little beginner hike to the top beautiful views great little hike but yeah hidden gems for sure what's what's this hike up snake hill like in newberg snake hill is something that your average catskill hiker will be done with

[01:39:31] in about 15 minutes uh yeah there's about 300 vertical you can start in in either a park or a little um community garden and you just hike up trails to a woods road and there's a bench at the top beautiful views over beacon new york and the um the northern gate of the hudson highlands it's one of my favorite

[01:39:55] views for sure i am very jealous that i don't live closer to these areas to see you know once again the manhattan skyline and the hudson valley area and stuff like that like yeah well i would imagine this has a great view looking down river in the yes so yeah it looks it looks north it looks excuse me south towards the mountains and which is a unique view and that's one of the reasons why i um why i chose it to

[01:40:21] elicits is a very unique view compared to some of the other peaks in the in the hudson island maybe i'm going to check it out stosh you want to do number three that's a good oh real quick that's a great hike for recovering because not a rocket head oh yeah you start at zan jacomo park in the south and just and just hike those trails yeah i can do it with my uh slip-on shoes and your and your your shower shower chair for sure okay yeah i'm gonna get i'm gonna get shoulder straps for the

[01:40:49] shower chair that's how folks will recognize me no one will battle ash either you're in the city nobody's gonna judge you you either have a beer in your hand or you have you know your shower like caddy in your hand or whatever it doesn't matter like come on i mean i i the one thing i was going to ask before shooting on to number three like are these like the these these areas like categorized or did you just go like you can do whatever you want at once or do you have them

[01:41:19] least difficult to most difficult like stuff like that i didn't mark them least difficult to most difficult um i i didn't want to get too into the weeds of how people should should approach this challenge the beauty of is that like none of the things are really really difficult i think it's very all the peaks are very uh beginner friendly it's a big enough list that like you space out and have fun

[01:41:45] and i also wanted to give wiggle room to to people who are more advanced hikers i mean like i said a lot of the people that are in the hudson valley that are hiking these mountains i mean these are these are their mountains and they're it's an afternoon hike for them this is yeah they know all the ways to the tops of these peaks um so there's room for the the map lovers to look and see how can i piece these all together and string string six or seven of them together and then there's room for somebody

[01:42:13] who's like this is my first thing and it's fine you're all gonna do fine so that's a good i mean so what is the most difficult like how would you is that bare mountain with the insane incline or is it something else bare mountain bare mountain stuff i think that um breakneck ridge is going to be the harder climb for uh for multiple reasons i mean one it's it's currently the the trailhead that you

[01:42:40] would start at is currently closed they're renovating that area and building it up for better infrastructure so it's a longer approach to that mountain you now have to hike over another mountain just to just to get in the area um but then breakneck ridges is is a scramble um and it's true scramble i mean it's it's probably one of the scrambliest things you can do in the lower hudson before you get into like some some nuanced client uh hikes in the in the dunks and it's pretty infamous

[01:43:08] for that i mean it's it's phenomenal if you're into rock and you live in this area you've played on on breakneck ridge nice nice so now uh is there like any other one that i mean you say the hardest like is there any other one like kind of like instead of elevation gain wise lengthwise like to get to like is there anything as a southern like you would say like oh man like it's a bitch there's no slogs

[01:43:38] for sure okay slogs that's right now yeah there's no there's no slogs um most of the peaks can be done in less than less than seven or eight miles i think that one of our longest ones besides breakneck right now and that's strictly because of the um the detours would be uh shunnamunk which i'm happy that you were able to pronounce well on your on your last podcast that was that was ted and chrissy g helped

[01:44:04] me on that one i was i was you know what like i i'm upstate new york so i have that i got to pronounce that's out of your world so skinny atlas schenectady stuff like that so but yes shunnamunk yes um shunnamunk i mean that's not that's not too bad but like that how long is that hike so i mean there are several ways that you can hike that mountain but there's a ridge route so it's shunnamunk

[01:44:31] if you if you see it on the horizon it's this beautiful long ridge um so you and the long trail uh the long path excuse me that heads up to the catskills goes over most of that ridge so you can hike it from the south southwest and hike the entire ridge up and i i believe that's like around eight-ish miles if you did that as an out and back yeah no long long hikes to single mountains really don't don't

[01:44:55] exist here unless you were really contrived in how you went about it is there with the your downstate 28 challenge is there something kind of like difficult to get to like you know we have i mean i could always say lone and rocky middle of absolute freaking nowhere we have to go around certain areas get back into the thing you're going through the boondocks stuff like that do you have

[01:45:22] any of these that kind of like brings people away from the city into the wilderness well all of them are going to be away from the city just general direction of the mountains there um there's nothing that's going to be too hard and i got some slack with this i remember when i first posted the the challenge they were like why can't it be just accessible by train i'm like because it can't

[01:45:52] it can all be accessible by train correct come on but you can get pretty close there's some driving involved uh we're on both sides of the hudson with this challenge so you will be crossing the bridges and that means some toll money but um no you'll if you've adventured in the catskills this will feel a lot more kind of right there for sure that's good yeah okay david so you have the uh

[01:46:20] downstate 28 you have the downstate 28 winter and a friend of mine wants to know is there going to be the downstate 28 grid or also known as the downstate 28 336 is it comes out yeah this is for by the way this is for joanne yes joanne she's our yeah she's already penciling in her downstate 28 grid

[01:46:49] she wants to be finisher 01 but okay go ahead is there a downstate 28 grid i i doubt that anyone would want to do it but if they did i will i will make them a patch for sure okay all right i will hand so if i need to um when i yeah when i envisioned the challenge it wasn't in in a grid capacity um as a matter of fact i didn't even know if i wanted to do a winter one

[01:47:13] it just some of it's because we don't bet a lash at the change of the seasons here they're they're they're more mild than they are up in the catskills where you know it's winter now so we're throwing on our our snowshoes we need our micro spikes i mean some winters you can you can do everything just kind of bare bare bare booted uh you don't need to even strap on some traction so i debated on even

[01:47:41] even doing a winter challenge but that said uh there is something unique about hiking this this area in in the winter and some of that's just that it's you know we're not in the alpine uh with the leaves down you get more views and i think that's really nice yeah the views are different the the sound of being in the woods in the winter is different particularly if there's some some snow on the ground uh

[01:48:08] you know the the way sound travels in the winter is different in the summer and it's i think one of the benefits to uh whether you're doing a grid or you're doing the four seasons is going out and seeing these mountains different times of the year uh is really eye-opening uh particularly in a an area like the catskills where the water is more erosive getting out in the spring when the the streams are

[01:48:37] raging and you you see those erosive forces at work and that's what shaped literally that's what primarily shaped the catskills that and the the ice ship flows um but all right so you david you you you came up with the list um you've put the list out there for people are you willing to tell us

[01:49:02] which of the 28 is your favorite and why that is that's very hard so a little peek behind the curtain when i when i first created the challenge and there were close to 50 on the list wow um and i had to little down some some of it just because the downstate 28 just sounded better than the downstate

[01:49:30] you know 47 but yeah there are a lot of phenomenal mountains down here um one in particular that that is truly special to me is a sugar loaf mountain um that's on the eastern side of the hudson highlands it's actually just north of of breakneck ridge uh and a few years back it suffered a pretty substantial wildfire that pretty much destroyed the top of it let's talk about wildfires um we never ever say

[01:49:59] wildfires and yeah we never had wildfires in this area um and that decimated the top of that mountain and they ended up rerouting the trail to allow it to heal anyway that hands down would have been my favorite mountain of the challenge if it made the list but because that trail doesn't exist right now and i didn't want to encourage people to to hike on sensitive um habitat like that it's not on the list i would love for it to become to go on the list one day and i think that's one of the cool things about

[01:50:28] making your own challenges i can also make my own rules so if one day i want that if i want that peak to be on the list because it's open again then yeah so it'll be the new york downstate 29er challenge maybe we'll just boot one who knows yeah or it'll be the 28.2 yeah yeah the the cat the catsville 35 is coming you can you can make up the rules so so like it can be a new york downstate 28 plus

[01:50:52] 28 plus bonus that's yeah the bonus edition i think my favorite on the list right now would be um would be maybe storm king i think i've done storm king more than any other mountain on the on the challenge um the bang for your buck is hard to beat you get great views uh you and if you're doing our our challenge the 28er you climb two mountains you climb an extra mountain getting over

[01:51:20] to storm king mountain you climb butter hill which is actually higher and yeah they're just phenomenal you can you can be on a mountaintop in less than a half hour enjoying 360 degree views see the gunks see the catskills see the manhattan skyline see your car see the pizza place you're going to go to afterwards perfect yeah it's still king the mountain the uh the one that's located with the aqueduct

[01:51:45] right on that side of the hudson yeah right yeah that's that's once again you can look over the other side of the hudson and be like wow the aqueduct is a thousand feet below the hudson underneath that yeah wow storm king is a very important mountain for our area there was a uh pretty much launched the grassroots environmental movement that that peak because at one point they were going to chop that mountain in half and i don't know if you've ever seen that mountain it's probably one of the most iconic

[01:52:15] mountains down here it looks gorgeous it looks like a whale's head and the um the highway just makes a little mouth out of the whale um but they were going to chop that mountain in half to make a hydroelectric plant um con ed and in the 60s the the grassroots organization um scenic hudson formed to protect that land and they they succeeded it was kind of it was one of the iconic you can kind of fight

[01:52:41] the fight the federal government and win yeah or for you know on behalf of the the public yeah the this the scenic hudson case um is noteworthy and what david's alluding to is up until scenic hudson the courts did not recognize a citizens group is having legal standing to challenge uh action

[01:53:06] state government approvals because they disagreed with it whether you know if citizens disagreed with it nobody they didn't have standing to go to court and challenge the approval of a project and so along comes scenic hudson and they established the precedent that a local citizens group can have standing standing to bring a legal challenge to an approval on environmental grounds which is significant

[01:53:31] because without that think of all the things that could be approved by the government that would go unchallenged by the public other than elections yeah so yeah scenic hudson uh crazy important case uh indeed and they're still doing phenomenal work as a matter of fact that snake hill that i that i mentioned earlier uh that's one of their parks they they preserve that area from uh from harm uh you know the city's big but that little slice of woods exists because of scenic hudson cool

[01:54:00] and scenic hudson is also doing that uh the rail trail right uh not the rail trail but uh something along the the hudson uh tad we talked about several times correct yeah there's on the uh eastern side i think there's like a connector trail from is it from cold spring yeah river the fjord trail your trail yes correct they've been doing some phenomenal work on that i mean that's going to be a big thing too

[01:54:28] there that will bring um a lot of infrastructure to the area uh i know that there's some opposition to it um and i'm not kind of in tune with enough of the the inner workings there to really choose a side but i do know that the due diligence is there in terms of uh the infrastructure so whatever they do build will be will be good and i mean it's going forward now so it's you know it's it's once again

[01:54:55] it's a double-edged sword like like if you put up if it's a popular area you put up enough information to educate people and teach them that like you know leave no trace is very important you know the ducks coming along to hudson or something like that the sea outers coming from the hudson shouldn't eat this because you're littering like it'll influence people to pass that information upon you know people

[01:55:21] that might do this new york state uh new york downstate or 28 challenge and then come up to the catskills come up to new york you know it's uh you know i i've we talked about it before and it's a double-edged sword like we want to bring people into nature more but we want to keep them educated but can we keep them educated the amount of influx that is coming in to these these areas and it's

[01:55:50] tough it's tough you know like like david you said breakneck ridge and bear mountain the influx of people is absolutely insane like with the number you said that the the total goes beyond cadresco uh the falls you know you know and then we want to limit a hundred thousand people per day look at the cadresco falls yeah it's just insane yep it's all relative but i think that one good thing that the um

[01:56:19] that the lower hudson valley does well i mean they have the new york new jersey trail conference which does have an impact up in the catskills they oversee the trail trail building and maintaining there is they know how to build for longevity so yeah when they when they build a trail especially with one of their trail crews that they align with uh you know the jolly roover trail crew and things like that you know that that stuff's going to stick around for a while uh and that's what these areas

[01:56:43] need places are popular for a reason unless you do something that's gonna you know really just force people not to go then they're going to continue to go so you can you can fight that or you can build infrastructure that keeps the land safe the people happy there is a balance um and i think that the trail conference and how they align themselves with trail crews will will do that you just gotta let

[01:57:08] it happen yeah right well the the irony is uh part of getting people to appreciate the environment so they protect the environment going forward is getting them out there yes experience the environment you know if somebody's living in manhattan in the sky striper it's conceivably hard to get them to vote in favor of budget items and legislative items and state legislators who are in favor of those things

[01:57:37] when these people have no appreciation for the outdoors or they think a great outdoor experience is joining a country club and going out and playing golf okay um so yeah a lot of these things are you know to some people maybe just necessary evils and speaking of people why don't we go on to the the next topic um how many finishers of the downstater uh 28 have there been and what can you tell us

[01:58:06] about them yeah so we have a small finish set um i believe it's 25 right now and that's three dogs so our challenge is open to pups and we actually have a separate little award for them um so three dogs and and 25 people that makes 28 yeah yeah yeah and they're largely local uh we have finishers from each

[01:58:35] of the uh five counties that the challenge peaks are in uh we also have a few from new jersey and we have uh one brave soul from connecticut who's wandered over and played in our mountains somebody somebody who got lost on their way to the hike but now they did the 28 in a day yeah maybe yeah with this uh the completion

[01:59:00] do you have like an age range like like uh do they give all information stuff so i purposely didn't want to um track that information i understand that it would probably be be useful um one has described themselves as a boomer but um but that wasn't it wasn't you i didn't see your name on the list but yes we're not we're not tracking we're not tracking age or sex i boomers not where they're

[01:59:29] where they're where they're from um i asked them about their favorite and least favorite peaks i asked them how they found the challenge so that i can help grow spoil or it's instagram which is crazy and yeah and i i encourage those questions but the rest we can keep vague for sure so what is what is the most favorite uh hike for them is there it's it's breakback it's okay by by a landslide for sure

[01:59:57] and if you've like i said if you've done it um i don't know if you've done that one tad tad have you i i did it like 20 some years ago okay well i mean that's back to back to back over again that's what it is now it's almost like a wild frontier there's a few more uh there's a few more steps now they added some steps there used to be a really crazy uh like boulder field uh that was kind of loose and really really crummy so the steps were totally warranted they also added some arrows where

[02:00:27] you can take an easier route instead of going up the scrambles but we don't do this we look at the harder routes i remember is it a wild experience way back when um yeah so so ted so it looks like i'm gonna have to stay at your house and we're gonna complete this downstate 28 or times when you get your recovery done bring your bring your own hard ciders because we just you know we have ipa and

[02:00:50] wine here just i'm just saying so so how uh like so when you started this like how long does it take it to complete like is there any been kind of like a time frame before people have finished and stuff so one one unique thing about my challenge um that a lot of other challenges don't do is if you've climbed these peaks before they count i'm not gonna make you reclimb these mountains although

[02:01:20] they're phenomenal and you should do that um i'm not going to require that like for example tad you don't have to go back and do breakneck again but you should it's phenomenal um and that's because these i'm not reinventing the wheel with this challenge people have been hiking in these mountains uh long before i pieced 28 peaks together and made a website about it so yeah they deserve that recognition if they've if they've hiked those mountains and i'm seeing that a lot of the finishers have and

[02:01:48] one of their um comments most of all is that like it was great that they thought that they knew everything that was to know about the area and then they found a few new gems and that's great i i love that a lot of our finishers have been playing in these mountains for a while our first two finishers were um two trail runners that live in beacon they run those mountains every day and then they

[02:02:16] realized there were just a few that they that they hadn't explored so they went and did a few more runs what are the names reveal yourself reveal yourself it's on the it's on our website we list all of our finishers okay okay yeah so if you wanted to creep you can you can go we do allow people to anonymize their names too if they don't want to be on okay on the internets although they're probably screwed in some other way yeah they won't be on our website if they don't want to

[02:02:42] well that's that's fantastic i mean i know a lot of like once again the organizations that we have that do trail running and stuff do a lot of challenges within that area down in the hudson valley so you can complete freaking like probably like 10 of those peaks in one day with these people that do the trail runs yeah this area does breed a lot of uh ultra athletes i mean it's good vertical

[02:03:09] but you're like near the city that's where people live um we have i had one gentleman reach out to me he wants to do it all in one go he's a he's a whoa he's an athlete biker so he's going to bike his way between the peaks and then hike the peaks and then bike to the next one so he's in the planning phase and helping him plan it out um so that that'd be cool i like that people are give us give us his name

[02:03:35] we'll get him on the show when he's done if he survives if he survives yeah yeah yeah if he survives i'll make sure that he that he reaches out if he doesn't then we don't want somebody like we should make him carry the bike no no we had alex on the last episode come on yeah well i mean you know that's the catskills and he survived i'm talking about somebody you know like dies out there you know hudson valley hudson valley can take a train back home you could yeah i mean he's going to come down

[02:04:01] snake killing his wife will be gone i shouldn't say shit man i haven't been out there man i'm i'm jealous i've i've you know you're talking about this man that's like like two and a half three hour drive for me but you know to see the manhattan skyline from somebody who has lived up in upstate new york 40 years of my life i want i've seen that once and i i did this when i was down in ramapo and we were

[02:04:29] doing a search and rescue operation and i saw the manhattan skyline at night and my god my thoughts were just like this is i wouldn't say just as stunning as the catskills but something that i will never forget in my lifetime yeah well it's when you think about it it's really crazy because you

[02:04:51] could be standing on storm king and looking down in manhattan yeah and there's nobody around you but you're like you know 25 30 miles as the crow flies away from one of the most populated places on our planet earth yeah and here you are though here you are all alone just up river from there um yep which is i think a crazy thing the other thing i'll say uh notwithstanding the limited hiking that i've done

[02:05:19] recently in the hudson valley area particularly along the hudson river the one thing that i find remarkable is especially through harriman state park how park like the understory is these like grassy areas under the hardwood uh forests there uh it's so unlike in the catskills there are certain places

[02:05:46] in the western catskills and at lower elevations where you do see that but i just think it's a really handsome talking about the pitch pines and stuff like that no these aren't no these are hard open understory oh wow yeah the understory is very open um a lot of grassy areas a lot of ferns we have a lot of like oh man i'm a sucker for a good fern yeah single track through fern i choose ferns over freaking

[02:06:13] nettles any day we have no metal well we do but like very really really no bushwhacking yeah no bush the nettles are from that hiker that hiked in the catskills one weekend and came down and get harriman the next weekend without cleaning off their shoes yep so you know you uh i mean once again with this challenge you i i mean i bring this up you offer different like type of forest types like i said you

[02:06:39] you up in the the gunks you have picnic forest you have the pitch pine stuff like that and then you have hardwoods over to i mean any anywhere besides that it's just it's just a phenomenal different diverse of terrain and stuff yeah for sure and different even different mountain ranges in our in our little tiny challenge so for example hiking in the hudson hudson highlands you have these

[02:07:04] these very dramatic peaks that kind of rise right out of the hudson river and they connect to the taconic mountains uh or then you can walk along the palisades which kind of hook around southern new york uh different mountains entirely completely different geologic um time frame and like you feel a different vibe too so there there is a lot of variety in this little little area and that's part of the charm too

[02:07:31] is finding so much diversity um so many different types of adventures uh in such a small area and like with that you know you have like once again uh breakneck ridge steep insane gains and then you have other areas that have been built for people like like tads said you know a hundred years ago with

[02:07:56] mountain carriages they used to drive up to the top and stuff like that it's just it's it's a variety of everywhere you know i mean we have we we have that in the catskills but not crazy like that i mean only 28 that's that's that's ridiculous you need to make it like 115. i mean you already done the 150 nevermind

[02:08:18] well uh i am i did decide for the challenge um 28 it probably isn't enough so i i have created a small sub challenge for the peak just to broaden some horizons and that was some of the um some of the recon i was doing this this past weekend uh it should hopefully be live by the end of the month and it's a new york downstate fire lookout fiber challenge

[02:08:45] oh so there are currently three fire lookouts on the 28er challenge but um there are six fire towers in the downstate area and then just and then four more five more uh just outside so with a little bit more driving you could find other fire towers that aren't part of that the blue line the catskills challenge they're still firmly lower to mid hudson valley so i want to encourage people to go and see

[02:09:12] those things too fire towers are phenomenal because you can stick them anywhere and now you have a beautiful view um so that will launch at the end of at the end of the month um congratulations the patches are in route to me so the design is all done i'm excited yeah that that one word patches yeah you can't go live until you get the patches in in hand right yeah yeah can't get the cart in front of the horse yeah because i'm sure that there's some trail runner that's already run them all so

[02:09:40] yeah but i'm going to open it up to my to my 28er finishers first there may be some secret challenges within that challenge that they will be privy to and then everyone else can happily figure out one other thing that i like to do with my my uh little challenge is pepper in secrets uh my website's chock full of secrets and if people find them they find them and if they don't they don't but like i can

[02:10:06] interesting some hints so like maybe there's like happy trails somewhere on my on my page and if you click it you'll get a reward i don't know i like things like that like easter egg shit i love easter eggs uh so there there are easter eggs for my challenge that people may or may not happily stumble upon interesting having a blast with it for the for the two listeners that made it this far in the episode

[02:10:33] yeah david and his wife they made it this far jesus uh that's so sad um so uh also david i i heard from recently from somebody that you also do another challenge it's a kind of it's yeah i'm a sucker for underdog mountainous areas that are really fun to play in but don't see any love um and the taconics are one

[02:10:59] of them the taconics run vertically uh through most of new england um and it's just a phenomenal place to play a lot of people drive through the taconics to get to some other location uh and there's great hiking to be had there so that's the taconic 12 or challenge and it's 12 peaks that span vermont new york massachusetts and connecticut phenomenal i'm very proud of that that was actually my my first

[02:11:28] challenge that i thought about and then the 28 are kind of came out of that too yeah very proud of that challenge and a lot of people are are taking to that one as well one nice thing about that is a lot of people have inadvertently hiked a lot of those mountains um when they're passing through or doing things like the the high pointing check out that challenge too especially if you like my downstate challenge or if you like hiking the catskills because you can see the catskills from just

[02:11:56] about all of those taconic 12 or peaks the catskills are always right there um smiling waving yeah i've heard very underrated things about the uh taconics like you know they they don't have open summits but they somewhat do right right like so it's a different type of forest views are hard to come by um but when

[02:12:20] they're there they're usually a grassy summit that feels pretty alpine um some of the peaks remind me of um mountains down in the southeastern appalachians the balds of like tennessee and north carolina yeah really cool vibe really cool vibe and very very rugged the taconics are some of the oldest mountains on earth um older than the appalachians older than your catskills and and the things adjacent to it the

[02:12:48] berkshires and the green mountains uh and they've just been folded and molded it just makes for a really cool hiking vibe i did i did the taconic ridge i think it was two summers ago uh-huh and it was a splendid hike i mean it was really interesting and yeah uh it was you know a different from the catskills and the um you just you kind of get that older mountain feel because it's not as jagged you know yep not as

[02:13:16] many ravines you know it's really weathered and been flattened out by the elements over you know millions of years presumably but it was very cool enjoyed it yeah and there's there's plenty of it i mean it's such a huge range that you just keep driving north or south and you're still in the teconics and there's just still a plethora of of hiking so i mean i we i don't i we should probably gone over statistics but uh

[02:13:46] with the tonic 12 or like how long is that how many miles is that i i didn't add this in the show notes if you what if you did all the peaks or yeah yeah somewhat and and the same with that 28 or like do do you have any rough estimate 28 it would be hard hard to figure out i i totally i'm so sorry i totally forgot that no worries someone had reached out to me about the taconic 12 they're like oh do you do you

[02:14:13] want to do a like an ultra version and she did the math and it was something like like 30 something miles if you did the shortest peaks the shortest routes to each peak so it's like 30 something uh miles which is pretty pretty burly day uh yeah but maybe doable i think the hardest part of that would be the driving and i think that's the same thing with the 28 or two is that your crux is going to be all the different driving and all the different hoping you get a parking space and um don't do a mess an ultra enjoy

[02:14:43] them as little day trips go get an afternoon beer yeah dude i like your style yeah do them when you have someplace else to be in the afternoon but you want to yeah you want to bag on a quick hike absolutely perfect for that they're perfect for a morning jaunt and an afternoon chill yeah it's like like once again david i know you are uh you you're one of the creator of this uh

[02:15:11] this challenge and stuff like that but you know you want to enjoy the mountains you know you want to take your time to feel good and stuff like that like your own hike yeah do you have new merch yeah do you have any merch um so i did make a couple sticks so this is where the sticker thing started is you know for the challenge when people finish their challenge they get a certificate they get their beautiful patch and they get a a sticker of the the finisher emblem um so i started

[02:15:39] making those stickers and then i was like oh man there's all these cool little things about the hudson valley that i want to capture in sticker form so people can um can rock stuff and it started with little like you know hike downstate and i'd rather be upstate and things like that um so yeah those stickers are on the website and then just the the sticker and snowballed it turns out it's really fun to come up with creative sticker ideas yeah so there is there is some merch yeah stosh tells me

[02:16:08] i just want to know this is true because i find it hard to believe you so you said you have like a rather i'd rather be upstate sticker i'd rather be downstate sticker and then stosh says i'd be rather i'd rather be listening to inside the line sticker is that true that's your most popular that's a great one it's in production in production i'm sure it'll be a bestseller yeah so and it's like a mountain lion with headphones drinking a hard cider listening to the podcast that's what the sticker's

[02:16:34] all about on top of the summit of the great mountain yeah yeah yeah yeah inside is inside is crevure cage you know fencing out okay now we need to take over the the ghouls area so um now are you considering any more downstate challenges like in the future well we heard definitely the bonus yeah there's going to be the bonus one and there's also going to be a um a consolidated 28er that's just going

[02:17:04] to be the classic eight so it's going to be the eight most popular peaks in the challenge this is for people like stosh who it'd be hard to be just to justify making so many trips down to the hudson valley although we'd love to have you um but you could spend a long weekend and and hike all of the classic peaks that make the hudson valley so special um try our food and drink our beers and our ciders and you can get your patch it's a it's a just a small subset so it'd be the the classic eight instead

[02:17:32] of the 28 so that's in the works there'll be an ultra version of that for our overachievers that want to do a bunch of things in a single day uh i think that'll satisfy people for for the time being my brain's always working so every time i get on a hike i come up with something new that i want to do there's just never enough time that's where the stickers are like i can micro dose my uh my creative

[02:17:55] outlets yeah i and i once again i appreciate this because you know to get people away from um do you have so many challenges that we can divert people to to once again david you you're very good with leave no trace and stuff like that teaching to educated as we are with you know with the podcast and stuff we can teach people educate people to start with this challenge move on to the next challenge

[02:18:23] move on to the next challenge and yeah you know it's it's it's all it's all benefit we're all connected like ted you know once again you know connected here hudson valley down to the catskill stuff like that this is we're all one big connection here to to everything that goes on with good old m yc so it's a small community it it is it is it's a great community you know let's let's we want to hear first

[02:18:51] first and foremost we all want to hear when joanne completes her grid of the new york downstate 28. the three three six finisher zero one zero one and i mean only finish yeah david are you going to be here are you going to try to be here before this like i mean i've put in a lot of summits just now that it's my challenge i feel a personal responsibility to see how these peaks are doing so

[02:19:17] i find myself doing them a lot and it's you know most people do do these peaks a lot but yeah i'm doing them a whole lot and now that i have a new puppy the puppy's doing them so yeah i'm out on those mountains she's she's got her money her uh her work cut out for if she's gonna beat me on me on the grid oh it's a challenge accepted yeah yeah yeah well so we're gonna we're gonna have to see how the bets

[02:19:42] go down on polymarket uh is it going to be david or joanne who finishes first i'm you know i'm not going to say who i'm putting my money on joanne um but you know just i don't know david has climbed mount mount hood and freaking the mount st helens and stuff like that so i'm yeah also well david's did say he hikes every day did i hear that correctly five hours ago at the beginning of the pod podcast

[02:20:08] right monday morning when we started marathon this is our ultra endurance podcast yeah yeah do you get a do you get a patch if you listen to the podcast and do the 28 challenge at the same time because that's tough well i think you get a patch if you can finish it while you listen to an episode like one episode you're done you know if you pick up several peaks in the time it takes you to go right

[02:20:33] so the pro tip listeners is if you want if you want to finish any hiking challenge while listening to one episode of inside the line you have to go way way way back three tad days and listen to the guy who stosh no did bear pen remember that guy oh god uh yeah that was like that was like two years that was a freaking four and a half hours uh episode that was fantastic though the history once again

[02:21:01] maybe we could have david come back on because he is well known with the history of the hudson valley area and that's just you know it it fascinates me with the the history going from new york city up to the the catskills it's just yeah yeah it's just phenomenal so um last question we always ask david uh post-hike bruising bites what do you got for us yeah i think this is where um where the you know new

[02:21:30] new york metro area the downstate region just may have the catskills whooped and it's that there's just world-class food and drink everywhere here it kind of has made us a little snobby like when we go up to the catskills and a little snobby a little a little nice if you ever if you ever shopped at tops market in tannersville yes and then make a tick tock about it or something yeah nice well done

[02:21:59] so you're you're you're you're you finished up hiking storm king you want to grab something to eat yes or you go home where do you go sure so your your big city right there is going to be newberg there's you got oh here's a fun one so you do storm king and it's a short hike so it's still early you go and you grab some lunch at downstate newberg it's a um kind of fusion mexican but like

[02:22:29] traditional mexican like like uh cd mix mexican food phenomenal it's right across street and this is probably one of my favorite parts about it it's right across the street from washington headquarters okay where actually we're watch george washington stayed did everything he needed to do during that time oh he did the 28 when he was there he did the 28 yes okay so you can you can eat your your mexican food while looking at the the birthplace of america um and then since it's still early you

[02:22:59] can go and hike you can hike your snake hill which is not far away and then you can walk right around the corner and grab uh a beer at newberg brewing which is right there too phenomenal beers yeah great area awesome and that's just like one one one little block yeah yeah one little freaking section of the downstate 28 20 challenge so yeah phenomenal uh david uh i definitely appreciate you uh joining us

[02:23:28] tonight this was a phenomenal chat about once again the hudson valley connecting the catskills to the hudson valley area and uh you know i appreciate you making this challenge because uh i'm done i we don't want to bring people away from the catskills but uh yeah but we need something to talk about so we appreciate you making it i'm going to make a podcast called outside the line and all the reviews talk about the catskills so yeah all right we're not allowed starship the delete button yeah i will allow

[02:23:57] it you know i i once again i promote lead no trace stuff like that and you know david you know you're huge with that yeah and this is this is great uh segment into a different challenge that will bring people up here to the catskills start them out you know there's there's some rugged mountains there's some easy beautiful mountains uh down there so uh i appreciate you doing this it's a lot of hard work i i understand

[02:24:22] and uh you know we look forward to hearing about finishers and stuff like that on the tagging and stuff and uh good luck on everything and uh we'll see you in the future my friend oh thank you so much for having me i look forward to uh hosting when you come down and take these peaks oh dude definitely will definitely so yeah have a good night david uh tell baki i said hello and uh you should have been

[02:24:49] oh my god that was a boy embarrassing yes now we need some edits look at that smile on the face leave it i i will i will so have a good night david uh we'll see you in the future buddy absolutely take care bye thank you bye hey everyone i just want to thank you for listening to the show if you enjoyed the show subscribe and

[02:25:17] throw down a smooth review on spotify apple podcasts or any podcast platform that you use you can also check daily updates of the podcast hikes hiking news and local news on facebook instagram twitter and the official website of the show remember this you gotta just keep on living in the cat skills man

[02:25:44] i the i am wicked wicked wicked wicked you