Episode 232 - Queen of the Escarpment Run Haley Heinrich

[00:00:29] The bushwhacks were some of the worst days I've ever had in the mountains, or life really. Whereas Pantsy Mountain is totally opposite, it's a mountain on top of a crater. I think the weather challenges on this incident were particularly difficult. It is really the development of New York State. Catskills will respond to it.

[00:00:52] Pantsy into Inside The Line, the Catskill Mountains Podcast. Alright, so welcome to Episode 233. Good Lord, sorry about that Haley. Haley Heinrich joins us tonight. Escarpment Trail, she won it for the females area.

[00:01:21] She is called Queen of the Escarpment. So she's here tonight to talk about her experience with the Escarpment Run, what it took to win it and stuff like that. And just tossing everything and how she loves climbing vertical and doing technical stuff, which is truly amazing. So welcome to the show, Haley. Thank you. Happy to be here. Yeah, yeah, it's good to have you. Can't wait to hear about the run and stuff. I have so many questions that are weird. I kind of do that. I have weird questions.

[00:01:50] I like weird questions. Bring it on. Okay, okay. So I wanted to bring everybody up on August 16th. There's the Climate for Climate event over at the Bel Air Ski Center. We will be doing a live show there. Hopefully, Tad will be joining me. It'll be pretty fun. Yeah, it's gonna be cool. Haley, I just found out. I don't know how I just found out, because I should have been looking into this.

[00:02:14] But she won it last year. So she has a little background in the Climate for Climate run. And how you say it is, climb it for climb it. So climate, climate change, stuff like that. So it sounds weird saying it really quick. So Haley, what do you got to say about that run? Well, first I'll start with the RD and the crew there. Even if it's not like what you like to run, it's so worth it just for the crew.

[00:02:43] And now I'm so bummed. Like that's awesome that you're going to be there. Are you guys live streaming it? We are. We're gonna. Yeah. Oh, that's so cool. Damn. I'm disappointed. I'm missing it. I think it's going to take off more and more throughout the years. But the crew is great. Like the camaraderie just it's an awesome, inclusive community. Bib pickup is really fun and it's at the Phoenicia diner.

[00:03:09] So I got to experience that last year and I was like, oh my gosh, this is so cool. And that kind of sparked my interest in the Catskills. But the course is really great. It's a hike. It's a hike. Yeah, just kind of hold on. I, I think you get a little bit of everything. I'm not. I'm going to try to remember, but I'm looking at it right now. So, okay. It's like, I don't, I should, I should have looked into this.

[00:03:40] It's like 5k vert. I think I can't remember the distance right now. I want to say 15 miles, something around that. But you're, you're going up like a very runnable ski slope in the beginning, which I can't stand, but it's like nice to get out of the way. It kicks your butt right from the beginning. And then you get into the woods, which is the nice part. And it's like some grassy runnable downhill.

[00:04:07] And then you get into some techie trails, which again, I, that's my red and butter. So I really liked that part. And then you, you go down, you think you're like kind of out of the woods a little bit, but then you're just climbing even more and then even more. And then you finish running down a really steep ski slope. And it's really nice. It's a nice little send at the end, which is fun. Nice. Yeah. I'm looking at it right now.

[00:04:35] 16.2 miles, 5,344 feet of allegation gain. You start at the end and at the Bel Air ski center. You go run up the deer run trail, which is basically the trail that is just a kind of just a road trail, truck trail, stuff like that to bring supplies up to the top. And then you head over to towards Balsam mountain. You go down Balsam mountain, hit the, the rider hollow area.

[00:05:01] You go back all the way up and then you go down McKinley hollow, hit the McKinley hollow, slap it, then go back up Balsam. And then all the way back down to Bel Air. So that's a, that's pretty bad ass. I think I might've, I got, I guess I got that wrong. I'm sorry. You go up the discovery way and then you do that and then you go down the deer run trail. So cool. It sounds good. It was, it was so much fun and they have some really cool post-race gear too. I love the colors Amy uses for stuff.

[00:05:31] So yeah, definitely worth, worth signing up. It's quite an adventure. So now because you're not going to make it and you want it last year, everybody's going to chip in and get a Haley a helicopter and she's going to be flying over here. That would be awesome. We'll touch you down because there's a plenty of places to land at the Bel Air. And then you'll come in, have a brief things be like, I want it last year. I got to go. And then, yeah. Oh man.

[00:05:56] I wish I would have done it again, but financially like feasibility still looking for a sponsor. That'd be great to help. Uh, so I could do that. But also, um, I have another race in two weeks and I need to be a little bit careful. I'm not very good at tapering. So what was your time? I, for climate, climate for climate. Yeah. That rough guess. No idea. No, I, two and maybe right under three. Wow. Nice. Maybe.

[00:06:27] If I'm wrong. Sane. That's, that's awesome. Oh, congratulations. That's great. So once again, we'll be there, uh, Sunday, August 16th at the Bel Air ski center. I don't know where we're going to set up. Just look around and look for all the, a tent or something like that. Cause I'm pretty sure Amy is hooking us up with like right at the front. We're going to be right there. I don't know if we're going to be like broadcasting. Projecting out because I don't know if she has music or stuff like that. I've tried. I'm going to get ahold of her and get down the logistics.

[00:06:57] So it'll be, it'll be fun. It'll be super fun. So there's a nice aid station too, that people do the out and back since she got some awesome videos from there. I wonder if she'll have you over there. It's a very refreshing aid station where it is. So good. Good. It'll be fun. So looking forward to it. Uh, also, you know, uh, I don't know if you heard about this, Haley, we had some major flooding in the Hudson Valley Catskills region this previous week, last week during whatever the, they don't even, they didn't even have a name for it.

[00:07:26] You know, usually you have like, like, I mean, we got 2011 hurricane Irene. There was something else in 2016 that was named like storm, whatever, but this had no name. It just was one of those systems that lingered around that one area. Massive downpours happened in the, the Hudson Valley region, Kerhonkson, uh, Catskill, Cairo, stuff like that. And it dropped in Kerhonkson. And I believe it was 11.6 inches in a matter of 24 hours. Yeah. An equivalent.

[00:07:55] If you want to go through like, if we're all looking forward to the winter, if you want to go equivalent, that's over 10 or 12 feet of snow. So it's a little bit high. So major flooding hit the Catskills got it. Okay. I remember Tanner's still got some flooding and Hunter got some flooding, but it looks to be okay right now. Everything's back to normal. I haven't heard much, uh, too much chatter about any trails that have been broken down or severely eroded or blow down or anything like that. So that's good.

[00:08:24] But, you know, once again, use some cautions. I know there's a couple roads, uh, out in the Jewett East Jewett area of that are closed because of, uh, some bridges has been demolished by the rain and stuff. And it's just, it was a crazy event. Once again, like I think, I think they had the Hudson Valley weather described it like a low pressure system, just kind of almost doing like the hurricane, but sitting there just one big massive dump on there. And it's just crazy. Did you guys, uh, you're up in New Hampshire, right?

[00:08:54] You're located up in New Hampshire. Yeah, we're in a drought. Um, our well is really low. So as I'm sorry that this is happening over there and I'm glad actually that I was just there. So I know the places like I know Tannersville. Now I know Kyra. I'm like, Oh, we drove right around there near there or through there. But, um, yeah, we're not experiencing that here. Like at all, we did get like a pretty hard storm that it said it was going to rain for like, it's been saying it's going to rain for like two weeks and we get like a little

[00:09:22] bit, but I'm over in the upper Valley. Um, near Mount Sinapee. A lot of people know that for like the racing championships here. Um, we're in a drought. I mean, most of New Hampshire is, but yeah, we didn't. I guess some places actually got a lot more rain, but unfortunately, um, we did not, but man, that's crazy. And I'm sorry to hear about that. It's wild. It's, it's what happens, you know, it's, it's climate change, you know, is, is, you know,

[00:09:51] you can't, you can't deny, you know, how, you know, being 44 years old and living this right now, as I did in the eighties and nineties and not saying that I've ever experienced this crazy kind of stuff that's going on extreme heat, wildfires, massive rainstorms, like without tropical storms. It's pretty crazy. It really is. I was just talking with some friends yesterday too, about we, they lived, um, in a couple

[00:10:16] of towns over and then they moved to closer to us, but we were talking about how we were in the best shape ever. Like a couple of years ago when it rained all summer, because the trails are so slippery that like we were using so much more technical skills and stuff. And it's like, it's been so dry. Um, and I'm grateful sometimes for dry trails, but it's like, my dogs can't get water. I can't refill water on the trail. Like, Hey, there's no denying there's definitely climate change.

[00:10:44] And, um, it's, it's pretty significant. I can't believe you could, you like running in the, in the, on the rocks that are wet and stuff. I'd be scared shitless. You know, it's weird. I prefer that. I think it takes a little bit of pressure, especially in a race. I know maybe as I get older, like that will change, but I feel like you're more likely to hurt yourself when you're more fearful of it. And sometimes just embracing that and getting shoes that you really trust, which is hard

[00:11:12] sometimes, but like, there's like a pressure lifted off of me when I'm running in the rain. I don't know. And I like it. I think it's refreshing. It's just a me thing. It's weird. I don't know. Maybe that's why you're winning all these races. Cause you're used to running down these treacherous, uh, steep areas that are slippery. But now there's just like, Oh God, I can skip and jump through this crap. Now. I mean, I don't know. I actually hate this. I hate this. I hate the summer weather.

[00:11:41] I hate how hot it is. I'm not a hot runner. I would run. I run all year round, but I prefer the winter actually in October. But thank you. Thanks for giving me some credit there. Um, maybe I just want to get it over with me. I'm like, Oh, so hot. I want to be done with this. So. It's true. I don't know. It's true. And like, we'll talk about that later is you got to think about more stuff when it's hotter out. You got to think about water. You got to think of electrolytes. You gotta, you gotta, you have more on your mind other than just slippery surfaces. Yeah, definitely.

[00:12:11] Oh yes. So, uh, let's just, uh, we're going to do some, uh, recent rescues here in the Catskill. So on July 25th at 10 15 AM forest rangers, Cowart and Sweeney responded to a call for a hiker feeling dizzy and lightheaded on the Becker hollow trail and hunting around can understand that that's a pretty crazy hike two miles. It's like 2000 feet of gain. So. Oh, um, that's pretty good. We don't have that here. In New Hampshire. Come on. I mean, we do, but we don't.

[00:12:41] I mean, we have a couple of steep areas, but I don't know. It's more technical. So it feels, it feels equivalent just in a much different way. Sure. This is two miles. It's an old, it's like an old Jeep trail going almost all the way up to the top. So it's, there's no switchbacks though. It's just straight up. Uh, shit. Like basically, but it's, it's a good, like, like people use it a lot for training. So. Yeah, no, it sounds like a good. Yeah. He's a six 73 year old from New York city was nauseous, sweating, refusing to eat or drink.

[00:13:11] When the Rangers arrived, the subject was improving enough to take a ledger like liquid liquids and some food. Rangers walk slowly with the patient until they reach a trailhead and the hiker refused further medical treatment. Resources were clear at 3 15. P.m. Oh, wow. That's it. That's a long rescue for just a dehydration and sweating. Wow. That's 10, 11, 12, like five hours. Usually they get them out in a fricking matter of two hours. They're crazy.

[00:13:39] Um, then in the next day, town of Hunter, uh, July 26, 2 0 9. Ray book, your scratch received a call about his fairly dehydrated hiker near cadresco falls at 2 34. PM forest ranger black and assistant forest rangers.

[00:14:10] And the rangers, uh, with this suggest that, uh, eating before heading out on the hike and bring an extra food. That's a good one. High in protein as calories is good. It's part of the 10 essentials. Eventually we'll learn. Maybe. Eventually, eventually.

[00:14:32] Um, and then like there was some today, uh, hold on actually, once again, the next day, actually July 27th, 2 34 PM at the same place. Caterstacle falls trail. A 32 year old from Schenectady. Looked like an ankle injury at the care catersco falls trail. They reached them splinted the ankle rangers that, uh, Jackson and Zelnick AFR gel gel Zelnick package the patients in a wheel litter. Along with the chin twin clothes, uh, technical rope rescue team.

[00:15:02] They wheeled the patient to a waiting UTV rangers transported the subject to the Laurel house parking lot at 4 45. William ambulance transported the patient to the hospital. So that catersco falls is a, uh, is a local place for rescues. As we all know, I don't know. Oh, uh, so, so Haley, the catersco falls is I, it's, you basically ended right near it. I don't know if you've ever been there. We went there the day before. Nice. 250 feet, not too crazy.

[00:15:31] Yeah. Um, but is this seems to it's, it's, it's one of the hottest spots to go in, in New York state. So, yeah, I would say so. Um, we tried to find the trails that were not, um, in infested with people, but, um, I think it might be a little bit easier to do when you know the area, but, uh, that was not possible. We were there. So it was pretty, but, um, yeah, there's a lot of people. It was, uh, it was on a Saturday, right? Yes.

[00:16:01] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we figured, but, um, yeah, my husband was like, I had a little bit of a meltdown at the end. Cause we never see that many people on like our trails. Um, but again, we know all the places. So it was just, and we're in a small town in New Hampshire. So it was like, Oh, this is what it's like to be around a lot of people. Yep. It's definitely different. I mean, I've, I'm like you.

[00:16:26] I prefer the lesser, not lesser known place, but the lesser known trails having the peak to myself or something. Yeah. I've gone there a couple of times on a, on a Saturday or Sunday and I'm just like, Oh, this is a little crazy. Yeah. So even parking, we almost had to turn around because I didn't realize that I should have known. It's like, we have that up north in the whites, but the parking lots were completely full. And I was like, Matt, just wait. Someone's going to pull out of there. Someone's going to pull out and someone pulled out.

[00:16:55] So we were good, but I was like, Oh crap. I did not research this place at all. So yeah. It's a hotspot. Let's just say. Yeah. The food locally though is delicious though. So that was cool. At least after. Nice. Nice. Where'd you go? Brave the flames. Oh, nice. Nice. That's cool. Yeah. It was really good. And then we also got to explore. Um, there was a really cute, like trail running store, um, camp catskill there. Um, and the owner was there. He was super nice.

[00:17:25] And I wanted to buy everything in there. It was very like runner friendly stuff too. I don't know. There was like a Ridge runner shirt. Like, Oh, this is so cool. I wish we had more gear that said that we do have some places like run the whites here, which is awesome. Or white mountain ski co now is the name, but, um, it was cool to accidentally find that shop. And, and I can't remember, I think we stayed in Durham or Wyndham. Um, I don't remember.

[00:17:50] We were all over, but we also went to this little, it wasn't little, this like farm cafe too. Um, pretty famous around there. It said on the website, something about their, their son started making donuts at seven years old. And then. Interesting. I don't know what that place is. I did a lot of research. Nice. So yeah, it was a great visit. Oh, cool.

[00:18:16] Like, uh, so the cool thing is, is, uh, the owner of camp Catskill rhyme is also a sponsor of the show. So, oh, that's too funny. Oh, shout out to Ryan. Uh, he was super nice. I'm excited just to go back there to go to brave the flames and go to camp Catskill. Right across the street from camp Catskill is, uh, an awesome Mexican restaurant. I forgot what it's. Oh really? Oh yeah. Yeah. You like burritos. I have a burrito right here. So that's why I brought that up.

[00:18:45] I was just like, hell yeah. Go over to it. So yeah. Yeah. Ryan's a sponsor of the, the supporter of the show and stuff. And it's been for a very long time. So you could have grabbed yourself a free sticker there, but I'll send you one. Oh, I, I have my sticker. I have my Ridge runner sticker here. Oh, nice. Well, uh, a sticker from the podcast. They have. Oh, okay. I realized that. Okay. I will need one. A lot of fun. Nice. All right. I will send you on. So awesome.

[00:19:14] Thank you, Haley for taking your time out to, to what we call shooting the shit. So let's move on to the amazing support of the show. So the support of the show are fantastic people who donate their money every month, every time they want to for supporting the show and keeping the show going. Like Chris Gerbian, Eric Rosario, Oskana Nichols, John Comiskey, Mikey S, Desert City Radio, Henry Burmeister, Vicky Ferrer, Jeff Jotz, David Oliver, who probably doesn't listen to the show.

[00:19:43] Karen Biscoff, Becky, Betsy A, Denise W, Vanessa, and Jim C. A lot of amazing supporters. Thank you very much. And thank you, Karen Biscoff. She's the new one on the, the supporters. So, so really appreciate it. Um, and our amazing sponsors of the show, like Outdoor Chronicles Photography. Molly from Outdoor Chronicles Photography specializes in adventure, elopement, and adventure couple photography in the Catskills, Adirondacks, and the White Mountains.

[00:20:09] She's an officiant for getting married, a licensed guide, but most important, she's a story maker. Molly won't just give you photos. She'll give you memories that will last forever. Don't hesitate to get a hold of Molly on all platforms. Check out Molly Haley. She's, she's, uh, does a lot of stuff in the whites. I, I'm hearing this right now and I'm like, man, I should have reached out to her when I was getting married. This sounds pretty cool. She like hikes people up to all these different places, secluded places, takes these awesome sunset photos, stuff like that. She's, she's incredible.

[00:20:39] Hey, maybe I'll, I'll reach out to her. Does she have a social, like, is it Instagram or, uh, Both of her. Outdoor Chronicles Photography on Instagram and stuff. Okay. All right. I'm going to check that out. Yeah. And also, uh, if you ever want to learn more about hiking or backpacking, you can brush up on your old schools in the back country too. You need to check out trail brown project, a hiking and backpacking school. Scott and Joe from the New Jersey search and rescue team have amazing backgrounds and wilderness first aid wilderness first responder and the mountain rescue association.

[00:21:09] And they are there to teach you old and new skills of hiking and backpacking. They teach anything from first aid map and compass, and many other skills that could help you and others while material. Check them out on the website and all social media platforms. Haley. I don't know if you saw this in the agenda, but are you having anything to drink tonight that you want to check about like alcohol or something? Um, I man, I'm so dumb about this, but I'm not dumb about this.

[00:21:37] Uh, I, I love a sour beer, but I don't have a gallbladder. And every time I work up the courage to have a full beer, it does not work out for me. Um, fair enough. I wish, I wish I had a, a, some kind of sour beer or margarita, but again, can't do alcohol. So my choice of drink is recess mood adaptogen drink. It is good. Um, yeah, not bad. It's, it's no beer.

[00:22:05] It's no tequila, but you know, um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It says it's supposed to make you calm and relaxed. I don't know if that works, but I think it's a great placebo if it does. So I'll check it out. I'll check it out. So we do this thing usually like this. I'll show you. Turn it on this and then you go. Oh, I can do that. I mean, I have a seltzer. All right. Now I'm part of it. Okay. Okay. I think I heard a little bit of that.

[00:22:35] A little bit. No, it's all good. I got a good old Hudson North peach mango Hudson North. Awesome. That flavor sounds good. I make my husband get a beer like I'll, or I'll buy it for him. And I'm like, well, I just want one sip of it. So he gets beer. I get a sip. We're good. Nice. Nice. That's good. Yeah. Can't go wrong with a hard cider sometimes most of the time. So Haley, this part is called, are you really outdoors?

[00:23:03] If you mentioned the hikes through one of your social media platforms, I will chat about on the show. Tad will chat about a show. We'll chat when he's here. Unfortunately, Tad's not here. He's working. So, uh, let's see. Chrissy G was betraying the Catskills by hiking in Spain, uh, up in the Pyrenees mountains. And she did some Mikey mountain biking all around the Pyrenees mountains and such. So Chrissy G's over in Spain. It seems like everybody actually that's tagged us is kind of betraying the Catskills, but that's okay. They'll be here in the winter.

[00:23:34] Uh, Serena Marie 46, there was up in the Adirondacks and did big slide. Tracy pink pony 18 was over in the Berkshires at the monument mountain. So that's cool. I hope I said that right. As there, everybody says it Berkshires Berkshires. I've heard different. I've heard Berkshires. I don't know. Yeah. Same. I was just like, cheers. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, Todd T-Bold outdoors crime, Hadley mountain, and then did black mountain to complete his leg. George 12 star challenge.

[00:24:04] Congratulations, Todd. That's awesome. Danny mild mischievous, mildly mischievous was up on a caterskull high peak for number two 35 of this four 20 grid. Uh, yeah, he's that we had, I do, do you do grid stuff like that? Like challenges and stuff? Um, no, because I kind of end up just like going with the flow of whatever. I am so anti-committal when that I did the 48 4,000 footers.

[00:24:32] And then I did some, I did all the 4,000 footers in Vermont and I'd like to go do the Adirondacks. That's like my next thing. But I kind of just got to go with it. Cause if someone's going to suggest something also, if I like commit to something, it's kind of scary. Like it's going to happen. It's going to get done fast. How far is the drive for, for you for the, from the Adirondacks to the Adirondacks?

[00:24:56] Uh, I think it's like, I think the, probably the shortest drive is like between three and four hours maybe. That's tough. Yeah. So, but maybe I'll make some friends that I can come stay with. True. True. And then, and then you also probably do like five or six of them in two hours. So. Well, I mean, we'll see. I do have some friends like, um, Charlotte Winkler. Uh, she used to live there. I think her parents live there.

[00:25:24] Um, she's told me to get up there sometime. I would really like them. So hoping, hoping to make some connections and Amy invited me out. So. Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah. I'd like to check more of that out. Cool. You'll be out here in no time. We know that. Oh, I will. Definitely. Uh, Vicki Hiker Goddess Adventures, uh, is on our start doing the Prezi Traverse and did Madison. Yeah. That is the Prezi is, uh, beautiful. Yeah. Loved it. Uh, off in the woods.

[00:25:53] Sean was out doing West kill and did some off trail exploring near the summit. Uh, of Skana Catskill ever after did Millbrook Ridge with the Catskill mountain club club and also did the Tambark trail. Andy Brownski, uh, sat on his butt for three hours. Uh, and said, somehow we made it 11 miles. Uh, crap paddled around Croton point, uh, Haverstraw Bay, the Tappan Sea and the Croton River. Very cool area.

[00:26:18] Uh, Rob, the sloth trance, the Gothic Armstrong and upper Wolf jaw on the Otterron next. And Richie nature escapes, took the kids up slide mountain. And the kids asked the same question as Ted. Why don't they just build a bridge over the never sink? Hell yeah. Glad your kids understand, but the DEC doesn't. So good job, Richie. Good way to raise your kids. Uh, Mike at red hand adventure guides was at the trust in trail doing three point miles of mushroom hunting.

[00:26:47] And last but not least, Lily, AKA mountain bounty was up to in the big hollow loop with the Catskill trail sisters. And we'll talk about that later. So thank you everybody for tagging the show and your social media posts. Greatly appreciate it. If I missed it, call me out, please. And I will do it on the next show. I really, I'm really sorry if I didn't call you. So if you think we're doing a good job and okay job, and you want to show us some love buy us a hard cider, buy me coffee.com. And we got, I don't have three tonight.

[00:27:16] I don't know if I can finish all three of these, Josh, but a Josh at orsas compass got us three hard cider saying the podcast is my go-to for keeping up of what's going on in the hiking world. Let's keep teaching and preaching, leave no trace and how we can all be stewards of nature. So thank you, Josh. Cheers. Good luck for Ursa's compass. Anybody needs a guide? Check out Josh and Ursa's compass on every social media. All right. So let's get you in the conversation, Haley. Previous hikes.

[00:27:46] What have you been up to after the escarpment run that you want to chat about? It hasn't been that long. So I've been taking it a little bit easier. I've been having some issues with hydration nutrition this year and maybe over doing a little, so I'm trying to practice tapering. Like I said before, I did this past weekend. I have a race coming up called Jigger Johnson and it's like where they do the white mountain

[00:28:15] 100, the white mountain 50. So I think some people might be familiar. I'm doing the baby race, the 20 miler, but that's in my wheelhouse. Eventually I'll work my way up to the longer distances, but I'm good right here. And now, so I just did a course preview and I did about 16 or 17 miles of it where again, it's in the white mountain. So not the same as the Catskills or Adirondacks, but it, I went up, up and over the Osceola's

[00:28:44] and then up and over Mount Tecumseh. Um, and the race takes you along like a very runnable trail and then you were in not super runnable terrain, but, um, it's nice and techy and gnarly. So, so do a little practice there. And it was the like lowest of the, the 48, correct? Yeah. I think technically it's not a 4,000 footer anymore. So people will make jokes about like, I don't know, stand on your tiptoes and I'll be a 4,000

[00:29:14] footer, but it is, it is still part of it. Um, I guess it's on the list. So, and if you, are you, are you one of those people that kind of run the Prezi and the Pemi and stuff like that? I, I had, so funny enough, like I've, I've done the 4,000 footers. I've lost track of them. I actually did them with my dog for the first round, but I've only ever hiked the Prezi Traverse. I not sure why I just, I, it's a little bit longer of a drive.

[00:29:44] And that is such specialized climbing. Like I, I want, I, I don't even want to put this out in the atmosphere yet, but I would like to attempt an FKT there, but I need to get on that terrain a little bit more before I go for that. Um, eventually if I do that, um, I've, I've done the extended Pemi loop. I've run that with a friend a couple of years ago. And then this, this past year I had a little bit of a blow up. I now know why.

[00:30:14] Um, but I, I did right before they did the construction to the Pemi loop because you can't do, you can do the Pemi loop right now, but you can't do it from Lincoln woods where everyone traditionally does. It's that long railroad bed that it's like, feels like never ending. Yeah. And then you get into the pretty stuff, but I did do it this year. Um, it did not go well. I was going for an FKT very last minute, like three days after doing a mountain race, which

[00:30:43] was really stupid, but never claimed to be smart. So yeah. Uh, it's beautiful. It's a little bit more runnable and it's just, it's still very, very technical, but compared to the Prezi, I wouldn't say it's as technical. I'm, I'm yeah, I wouldn't say that it's just longer 30 miles versus 18, 19. So yeah, it's a, I mean, I've done the Prezi hiked it and it's one of those ones that I

[00:31:10] would, I like, I'm not a fast hiker at all means like you and stuff, but it's one of those ones that you want to enjoy the first time and stuff because of all those views, all those that fun technical terrain going up Garfield and shit where it's just absolutely crazy. False summits going up Lafayette that are just never ending three or four false summits that you're just like, yeah, ah, shit. Yeah. It's, it's one of those places. We're known for the false summits here.

[00:31:38] We have quite a few of them and then you'll read the website after. And if anyone's ever thinking of doing like the 4,000 footers, you need to read about them first because I can't tell you the number of times people think they summit and they're not. It's this, the summit is this group of trees like a little bit further on and it'll say it in the guidebook, but you don't realize. And it's like, I just drove how long to hike eight miles and I didn't even make it to the summit. Um, but yeah, it's worth it. It's they're beautiful.

[00:32:08] Yes. I will agree that the 100% in the end. So cool. Cool. So getting out and about, uh, what's, what's next for you? Like, are you have any, uh, anything on the agenda for this week, this coming week or something? What's your next run again? Um, I'm going to like runs in general or like weekend plan or what? Uh, either, or like what's, uh, what's the weekend plan for you? Yeah.

[00:32:31] I, I'm going to probably do something more runnable trails with a friend when I say runnable, just like a lot less vert. And then I'll do. I'm tapering. I keep needing to remind myself that cause I just get excited. Um, and I want to do it all, but I'm going to do probably something between 10 and 12 miles. It's like more hiking, less running, just gentle chatting pace. Um, the next day.

[00:33:00] And then really, really try to dial back everything in general, like keep runs an hour and under maybe. Nice. Yeah. Good. You're learning yourself a little bit more and stuff like that. I'm trying to. Nice. Uh, I mean, I hate to, sorry to ask this, but how old are you again? Um, guess. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm 33. Um, nice. Wow. Yeah. We all kind of like look the same age.

[00:33:26] We all like blend in between, I would say like 28, 38. I don't know. I feel like a lot of us, it's hard to tell. I'm really short. So usually people guess younger, but 25, I would have guessed. No, thank you. I appreciate that. Nice. Well, good. Good. Uh, this, so this previous weekend, I got to go up and do my trail maintenance up on my trail going from, uh, it's, it's very close to the escarpment run, uh, Campbell something,

[00:33:56] Thomas Cole. Uh, when you're going up Wyndham high peak and you look to the right, there's those three beautiful mountains, uh, over there, the blackheads and you climbed up one of them black, uh, blackhead mountain. Okay. That was this, was that this steepest one? Yep. Okay. Yep. All right. My mountain's a little bit too, too, a little bit further down. It has a little bit more vegetation. So I had to bring some extra tools and stuff like that. But I, I met some great people on the way up.

[00:34:24] It was super, it was nice, but it was super muggy. And I'm one side of the mountain. There's no wind at all. So you're sweating to death. And all of a sudden I see these ladies coming down. There's like six or seven of them and I'm just pouring with sweat and I'm just like, Oh God, I look like an idiot. Um, and all of a sudden I, I noticed, uh, Kelsey, one of my friends, uh, one of the listeners of the show too. She's running. I'm just like, she probably wouldn't even notice me. She's too busy focusing on time and stuff like that.

[00:34:54] And she like slams on the brakes. It's like, Oh my God, it's not what's going on. And it's good to see all them. Good to meet all them. I met Christie from that. That started the trail, Catskill trails, uh, trail sisters in the Catskills. And, uh, they were running, they were doing some of some of their stuff and they were like, Hey, you need to go talk to this guy. That's up there. He's looking for mushrooms. The name is Jonathan. He's incredible. So I'm like, Oh, cool. It would be cool to talk to him. This guy full of information. Cause you know, we just got all that rain and the mushrooms are just starting to go crazy. Oh yeah.

[00:35:23] So he has massive bag full of mushrooms. And he's just like telling me about this mushroom cuts open this mushroom. And he's like, Oh, this is a milk mushroom. It's look, watch, turns it upside down. And the, it starts like dripping out white, um, was nibbling on one. He's like, this might be a thing. He's like, and he's like, and he just spits it right out. And he's just like, and, uh, he was like, uh, Oh, that's not it. He's like, that tastes like battery acid. I'm like, Oh, okay.

[00:35:51] That's, it's a little, uh, that's, that's not what you want. Right. He's like, absolutely not. I'm like, okay, good. Um, but he was super cool. Really didn't meet any. I got up above, uh, cloddles Hill and camels. Hump where I started getting some good wind and it felt really good. Uh, hit camel's hump. And I've noticed on that trail. Uh, I wish I, I wish you knew about it, Haley, but we had like several viewpoints on that trail, at least one, two, three, at least four viewpoints that are gone now.

[00:36:20] And I'm, I'm starting something about that because, you know, views are, are big, you know, they're, they're attention grabbers. Uh, it gets people in the hiking and, uh, it also, you know, once again, it's something to enjoy and the cherish and stuff like that. And they're, they're just disappearing. So in the master plan, they have a, a sort of thing saying that they have to keep them maintained if they're located on the map, they have a star.

[00:36:44] So I'm going to, I'm going to talk to people, somebody about that and see what can happen because these trails that I've maintained for 11 years now aren't losing its views. So, and that's a lot of views. That's like five views on, on one little two mile, two and a half mile trail. So yeah. Yeah. So went up there, cut some grass, cut some ferns, cut some vines. Uh, took me a while because I, once again, I have one of those areas that just vegetates like crazy.

[00:37:13] It just grows and grows. Uh, but there's a certain point that I hit that just doesn't grow at all. And it's just awesome balsam forest and conifers and stuff like that. So it's very, very nice. Got up to the top there. My friend sends me a message. I send a friend of my friend, a message saying that, uh, I got to the like summit. I was cleared some stuff. You're good to go. And he's like, oh, it's raining here. And then I'm like, shit, that's in Biggumton. I'm like, that's like, well, it's close. So I'm just like, you know what?

[00:37:41] I'm going to start running down this damn mountain set the fastest known time for stosh. And I ran down probably like a quarter of the trail. And I'm just like, I can't do this anymore. I'm done. And then I kind of fast paced it. I just paced myself fast. So it's really, it was really good day. I got out. That's what I wanted. Uh, I forgot the mileage on it. I think it was around six miles, uh, 700, 1700 feet of gain. Not crazy. Like what you did, but yeah, I got out. That's all I want.

[00:38:09] I mean, you say that, but honestly, that's still really good. Like we have to drive specific areas to get that kind of vert within that mileage. Um, I around here, like I'm fortunate to be by Mount Sunapee, but it's like two to three miles up. And it's between, I think 13 to 1500 feet, maybe right under that. Um, so I have to do like multiple laps.

[00:38:36] So that's, that's pretty cool to be able to do that and visiting the Catskills. Um, the way even, I don't know. I, it's just cool to be able to just stack that vert so easily. I mean, I'm like, Whoa, I can keep going and keep going. And, um, like we can do that in the whites, but you know, I've got to drive a little bit to get there. So it's pretty cool. Yeah. It looks like you're, you're located a little bit further south in the, in the, the New Hampshire area. Yeah.

[00:39:03] I'm like an hour, between hour, 15 hour and a half to Frank Cody and notch. Um, but to the Prezies it's like closer to two hours, but it's, I mean, it's not terrible, but you know, sometimes it's just like a little bit too much, but I still love getting out there because there's no views like the Prezies. It just feels like a different world. So it frick it is. It is a different world. Yeah. Awesome spot. So good. Goodness. So, uh, once again, got to meet some great people.

[00:39:32] Uh, John's going to be hopefully on the show and a little, in a little bit talking about mushrooms and stuff like that. Once again, the knowledge, I only had like a couple minutes with this guy and he was all over the place and it was great. And he would like spot something else. Oh, and he was like a little kid on a, on a, like a hike or something like that. Yeah. And it's like, Oh, let me go touch this and touch that. Like it's, it was super cool. So some of the most interesting people I've ever met are foragers and they know everything. And I feel like I've learned so much.

[00:39:59] Um, I have a couple like quieter friends, but once we get out in the woods and they're foraging and they're pointing out this, that, and the other, I'm like, Oh my gosh, like you're brilliant. Yeah. And they're so passionate about it. Like they love, Ooh, look at this. This is, and they, they're, I don't know how to say it. It's like touchy feely, but they're like, Ooh, Oh, like, like the way he was, was just like, he cut it open. He's like, Oh, and then he nibbled that it was so, it was so cool, but he was like hands on and it's great. It's a great learning experience.

[00:40:29] Yeah. You don't realize how much you miss until like you talk to someone like that and they show you those things. I'm like, wow, I've never even noticed that before. I never would have made that connection. So that's pretty cool. Well, you're flying up and down the mountain that you really can't, you pass by a tree in a second. You know, I need to get some things out, but then there are times where I'm just in my backyard and I'm trying to like really slow down, pick it like the sand and see if I can

[00:40:55] find any cool rocks or just like the new plants over here. Um, I actually accidentally, like I got really invested in plants and I still am, but more indoors than outdoors because I was trying, I found some, what I thought were beautiful flowers at the end of my driveway. So I dug them up, put them in the yard. I wish I remembered the name, but it turns out they smell like rotting meat. Um, and we attract other animals and I was like, oh, okay.

[00:41:24] So I've given up on that. So yeah. Yeah. So that sounds like slow down. I do slow down sometimes. It's just doesn't work out. Yeah. I was going to say, I was just going to say that doesn't really work out for you. Yeah. I mean, do you, if you have like, we have, we have an open yard and I don't know if I talked about this last thing, but we're putting our, our open yard into like a wildflower area. It's not, it's not a big area. It's probably like a hundred by 50 feet, but it's all going to be wildflowers.

[00:41:51] And we bought a shitload of flowers last, last week and just planted all of them. Uh, like, uh, not daffodils, um, black eyed Susans all over the place. Daisies. Uh, there's so many different kinds. There's this cardinal red one that we got. That's super cool. So it's going to be infested with insects, bees, and hummingbirds. The good ones though. I feel like the wildflowers, I don't know. We put those seeds in our yard and the animals usually eat them, but some of them pop up. At least some of them, but yeah, they're so cool. Okay. That's good.

[00:42:20] That's good. Good. So excellent. Glad everybody's out enjoying their hikes and stuff like that. So, uh, once again, Catskill news, definitely volunteer wherever you are. It doesn't matter if you're up in New Hampshire or the Catskills or Adirondacks. Uh, you can volunteer in the Catskills 3500 club, Catskill trail crew, Catskill mountains club, visitors center, Jolly rovers trail crew, Bramley mountain, any fire tower. And also, if you need stickers, let me know and I'll send you them for free or go to camp Catskill and you can get some free stickers.

[00:42:50] All right. So let's break it into the weather forecast. Here is your weekend weather forecast. Try to make it as accurate as possible. So don't yell at me. All right. I'm sorry. Anyway, back to the forecast on Friday, August 7th, expect decent hiking in the day early, but keep an eye on the sky later on.

[00:43:15] Expect warm and humid conditions with cloud building up in the possibility of an afternoon shower or thunderstorms. Storms could produce brief heavy rain and localized flash flooding if they are strong enough. Summit temperatures will be around the upper 60s to lower 70s and the valley temperatures will be in the low 80s. Wind chills will reach down to 63 degrees at nighttime. On Saturday, August 8th, probably will be the trickiest day for a hike.

[00:43:44] The temperatures are comfortable for August, but it looks unstable. A morning hike could be great, but expect thunderstorms and showers late in the afternoon. Summit temperatures around mid to upper 60s to low 70s with valley temperatures sticking around the 80s. Once again, humidity is going to be one of the concern. On Sunday, it looks to be a beautiful day, clear, but still humid, with more clouds bringing in in the later day and the thunderstorm risk is minimal.

[00:44:11] The summit temps on Sunday will be around 60 degrees with the valley temps lingering in the low 80s and a good day for a longer outing. Once again, humidity seems to be the topic so far, so bring your hydration. And when you're out there, don't forget to be safe, be prepared, and don't become tomorrow's rescue story. Back at it guys. Alright, thank you for that probably inaccurate weather forecast because it's never accurate

[00:44:40] here in the Northeast, because we all know that. Haley's probably done some runs where it's just like, oh, it's going to be sunny and then the fog never clears. Yeah. Oh, all the time. I give up at this point. What do I use? Mountain weather forecast and just add at least 5-10 degrees because it's always warmer than it says it's going to be. Correct. Unless it's the winter. Summer, it's going to be warmer. Winter, expect colder. And that's just the way to play it safe. I agree.

[00:45:09] And I find that as well with mountain weather forecasts. I'm just like, oh yes, it's going to be 65 degrees and it turns out to be like 78 to 85. I'm like, oh yeah. Totally off. I thought I was going to be comfortable on that. Yeah, me too. So, let's get our last set of sponsors and then we'll get on Haley's Escarpment Run Win Queen of the Escarpment. So, is it time for some new gear for hiking in the Catskills? Say no more. Camp Catskills in Tannersville has all your hiking needs.

[00:45:37] Footwear socks, moisture wicking shirts, freeze dried meals, Catskills merchandise and runner's stuff as well as Haley said before in the episode. They have all the essentials for your hiking needs. Located in Tannersville and online, check out Camp Catskill. If you want free stickers, definitely stop there. Also, check out Another Summit, a non-profit program that leads outdoor adventure activities for veterans and first responders for free. Outdoors like walking, hiking, paddling and even backpacking.

[00:46:07] We welcome guardians of all ages and ability levels including those with accessibility needs. Our adventures are located throughout New York and the Northeast and we organize transit accessible adventures throughout the Hudson Valley and the New York City area. Apply today on anotherSummit.org. All right, so let's get on to the guest of the night. Let's go! So, Haley Heinrich joins us in the first place in the Escarpment Trail Run. I believe that I'll just run this off the top of my head.

[00:46:36] Three hours, 51 minutes and 27 seconds? Yeah. Something like that. Nice. Jesus Christ. All right, let's just let you know I did the Thomas Cole hike that was only like six miles and probably like three and a half hours. So, yeah. So, Haley is joining me tonight and to talk about her first place winning the Escarpment Trail Run. A bunch of other stuff with trail running and stuff. How she crushed it. How she loved it. How she loves the small communities and stuff like that.

[00:47:04] And that it's just great to have people on like this that love the small communities, the connections and stuff. Like, Haley, it's really cool to hear that, you know, you made the connection with Amy, who's in the Catskills from the running guy. And so, once again, the connections are tight. Yeah.

[00:47:21] No, everyone's been super friendly and just due to like, I don't know, the climate of the world and financial circumstances because I seem to take on more animals than I mean to. So, my travel races are usually exclusive to New England and I'm biased. I love New England trail running. I just, like, I'd love to travel more who wouldn't, but I mean, maybe some people, but there's something about New England. I don't know. It's a special place.

[00:47:51] And so, it was really cool to have Amy reach out to me and say, you should come check this out after I met her at Kilkenny Ridge Race. And I was like, oh my gosh, that was so nice. Felt so included. She actually had me on a podcast before the race and I was so nervous because I'm like, I don't know what it's like out here. I'd only run the breakneck championship in New York. That was the only New York run I had prior to this. Um, so that was a great connection.

[00:48:19] And then I think, uh, Dickhead messaged me the same year and I'm like, I can't make it work to go to climb climate for climate and a garment, but I will be there next year. Um, so I was really excited. Um, I, their social media posts are, they're so cute. They just like, they give the history of the, of the race and all the people there and you could just like feel all the love.

[00:48:43] Um, and I, I've made it a goal this year to do grassroots races, um, exclusively because I just am not thrilled with some of the way the world is becoming. And like the races being commercialized, I think we need to honor everyone, um, and focus on the community aspect of things. And I, I, um, I've heard things about grassroots races phasing out and no, no, I'm so passionate about that.

[00:49:10] And I know so many other people are, so I think it's important that we connect with the community. And I was super excited to meet, um, a bunch of people at escarpment and they were so welcoming and it, I don't know, it was a great time. Nice. Nice. Nice. So why don't you give a little background about yourself, uh, to start off and like go all out how you got, you know, maybe your early life and then how you maybe got into hiking and then trail running and such. Okay. We'll be on here for eight hours if I did that.

[00:49:38] So I'm going to try to make it a little bit shorter, but I, I ran pretty casually in middle school and high school, like cross country races. Um, it was, is I was like pretty, I was talented, but I think it was just not, I felt a little bit too much pressure from it. It just wasn't fun for me, but I've always been really outdoorsy. So I just kind of was like, nah, not for me, had a lot of fun in college, um, participated more in drinking than anything else.

[00:50:08] And then I, you know, I got out of college, got a great job in, um, I work in, uh, mental health and social advocacy job, which is really fulfilling, but also can be really heavy. So I naturally kind of got back into nature. Um, and I also along this period in the mix of things, there was a lot of chaos going on.

[00:50:35] Then, um, I developed, I think this is part of the reason I stopped running too. I developed a seizure disorder when I was like 12 or 13 and it just, yeah, just made me. Me too. Oh, really? Yeah. I'm a epileptic. Oh, my gosh. For a long time. Uh, it's been 16 years since I've had one. I am. I think I'm around the same as you. That's so crazy. This is so weird. We didn't plan this everyone. That is so crazy.

[00:51:05] Um, congratulations by the way. You too. Uh, kept her every day for the rest of my life, but it's working. So we're good. Same. Oh, that's so funny. That's so crazy. It's not funny, but that's so wild. Okay. So, um, that kind of, yeah, that's stressful. Like you, even though I think the people who witness it are probably more scared, it's still sits in the back of your mind. And it's like, what can I do? What's going to trigger this? Like it just, it causes anxiety.

[00:51:34] Some people more than others. So I really just was like, screw it. Like, I don't need to do anything else. And I just kind of backed away and got scared. Um, and then I got my dog who's currently at my feet and I had to give that dog the best life ever. He is a Husky. And if anyone knows Huskies, um, they are very active and you need to get them tired. And a tired Husky is the best Husky.

[00:52:03] And so we started, we actually like would get together with a dog park group and go on these hikes and stuff where my other sense of like community was. Um, and we started building up towards 4,000 footers. Um, I was on the Osceola's hiking with them. And I saw this group of guys who I now know who they are, but I saw them running up and I was like, huh? Like I knew about mountain races.

[00:52:32] I'd done some mountain races previously. Um, when I was younger, maybe between like 12 and 16, cause there's a mountain series in New Hampshire. Um, and my mom kind of dragged my sister and I to them, but they were fun. It was great. It's a great community. But I saw these guys out here and like the mountains, not just the ski slopes, the mountains. And I saw them running up and I was like, that's crazy. And then I saw them running down and one guy was covered in blood. And for some reason I was like, I think I want to do that. I don't know why.

[00:53:02] Um, but that just like sparked something in me. So I learned about the 4,000 footers in New Hampshire. And I'm like, oh my gosh, there's a list. I got to do the list. So I was like half at it. I was at a college working part time. Or maybe I was, I can't actually remember if I was a part time student and finishing up. Cause prior to that, my, I'm jumping all over the place, but my freshman year of good. Cause this is my ADHD brain. My freshman year of college.

[00:53:32] Um, I had a seizure in my Spanish class, hit a radiator, got a concussion. Like, yeah, that wasn't great. Um, and yeah, that's also around the time. Again, I just wasn't really in nature. And I'm trying to think how, what that was related to in terms of what I was just telling you. But either way, that kind of, I don't know, that just kind of set me back again, but I decided like, oh, I didn't. Okay.

[00:53:59] So part of that was I had to do a half a, I had to do a couple extra classes. I didn't do the traditional college year. I did four classes at a time. I wasn't going to try to take five classes per semester. My brain was half functioning. So did a little extra was working part time, part time in school. We went to do the 4,000 footers. I accidentally did them, um, in two and a half months ish.

[00:54:25] And I was like, oh crap, I finished, uh, finished my list, which like it was, it was so much fun, but it was over too fast. Um, and then part of that too, when I'd been seeing people run, I was really doing more hiking, but I would like get hungry at the top and be like, well, shit, I want to be done now. So I just start running and then I get to the bottom quicker.

[00:54:48] So it just like, that's kind of how I started really mountain running and then connecting with different clubs and communities. Um, and I remembered some of them from when I started way back. So I've just like almost reentered the running scene and I've been here for a bit now, but it's still a little bit new in a sense, I guess. I don't have like the traditional background, but that's my all over the place story. It's, it's, it's, it's a great story.

[00:55:18] Like, uh, I know, like you said that, uh, you had your, your epilepsy and that's a big thing. It's, it's not, once again, you said, you know, people see it. And it's, it's, I remember luckily I had, I had my wife and my good friend, John, who's been there with me for a long time. And I had one and John, we, it was at a pizza place and, uh, I had one. He's just like, let him go. You know, he's got to finish it. And the lady, the lady looks over the things like, does he still want his pizza? And John was just like, are you kidding me? He's freaking throwing up. Are you kidding me?

[00:55:47] Oh my God. But yeah, some of the reactions, I mean, yeah, sorry. No, no. But you kind of stuck with it and you rebounded back and you went back to trail running stuff. But it seems like you've been trail running since the early stages back when you were a teenager and stuff like that's to hear that is unusual because a lot of people just hike, hike, hike. And then in the later stages, they'll get to trail running. Like not even in their 20, like mid twenties and stuff like that. They'll start hiking and be like, yeah, I can do this faster.

[00:56:17] And they trail run. You were trail running on the, the early stages of your life. So that's, that that's pretty neat. Yeah. I would call it trail running, but also it was like the mountain series that I would do was like every week. I wouldn't train like at all. And then my mom would take us to the races on the weekend. And I don't know if I'd call it. I think we all know mountain running up is a hike. So really I was hiking.

[00:56:43] I was just hiking sometimes a little bit faster up a mountain. Like that's, but yeah, I guess it was trail running, but they really blend in once you're going up a mountain. Right. So yeah. Yeah. So you kind of lose focus and you're just like, am I at the top yet? Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. So it was hiking, but it was good. It was a good outlet. But yeah. And then I completely was like, no, I think I'm done. Um, and then, yeah, just came back to it. Cause I don't know. That's where my heart is. So.

[00:57:12] And, and speaking of you said your heart is, is in running, but it's also in New England and such. You said you love new England. You want to, you always come back here. It's, it's your spot. It's your place. Why is it such a great place to trail run? Oh my God. I read this as one of your questions. I was like, I was thinking, I was like, there's, oh, there's so many reasons. I think, first of all, it's so safe. Like it, I feel really safe and not the fact that I've got three dogs who run with me, but

[00:57:40] even before that, I, it's, it's safe. And it's so, it's so unique. Like you're not, you're going to be on slabby rocks one second roots the next second, some flat, easy trip. Like it's, it's so engaging and I think I said it before, maybe, or briefly mentioned it. I have ADHD, so it really satisfies my ADHD. Um, and just that differing terrain. It's like, what should I do here?

[00:58:10] What should I do there? And just like, there's so much to look at. And then on top of that, we have a whole other world when it's winter here or fall or spring or summer. And so it's just like, it winter in the white mountains is so magical. It's magical. New England. Anyway, when we get snow, we can count on the, the white still at least have snow, but, um, it's just so engaging and the community.

[00:58:36] I feel like the Northeast, you know, we make, I don't know. We're told we're, we come across as cold, but man, I feel like these are the realist people that this is my tribe here. I love it here. Um, which are there's places like that all over, but there's something, there's an honesty to us, but also like a kindness that I, I don't know. I think we cherish the mountains a little bit more than another areas do the Northeast. I think.

[00:59:06] Yeah. Maybe you're right. A lot of people will come up, you know, that, that don't, you know, specifically care about the mountains, but then like they'll get an itch. And then all of a sudden they're flip flopped in there now doing what you're doing trail running or, you know, loving the mountains so much that they got to get out there every day and do it. And that's, that's what I found with the podcast is just that a lot of people like, don't just, just do it, but they care. You know, they leave no trace. They do all that stuff.

[00:59:35] They all bond together. Like, it's just, it's great. The Northeast is, is special. You know, I, when I, when I turned like 18, I wanted to get the hell out of here. I left, but then I came back. I'm like, God damn. I miss, I miss this place. It's so stunning and beautiful. I forgot. I'm sorry. I think, I think that is the story for many of us. I was like, I'm going out west. I'm going out west. I never went out west. I would. I just came back here. I'm like, oh wait, there's more to discover here.

[01:00:03] And there always is, but no, I totally get that. Yeah. There is a lot to discover. People don't understand. Like, and now you once again, the, the diaper, I would have to say. I would have to say the diversity of what we have out here. You know, once again, you're up on the Prezi and you're sprinting along Lafayette or not Lafayette. You're up on the Pemi. You're sprinting along Lafayette and then you go up Liberty and flume, but then you've got to go down. And there's some steep spots. So like you, like you said, you're like, I can fly.

[01:00:32] And then all the sudden you put on the e-brake. You're like, oh shit. I gotta, I gotta be careful right here. And then you can fly again. And then you're like, oh, I gotta be careful here. So it's, it's, it's a lot of, well, once again, your ADHD mind goes all over the place, but it's so much fun. It's so engaging. Like you can't stop thinking about it. Like you have to be present. And I think I love that, that forced present or need to be present or you're kind of screwed, but I love that.

[01:00:59] Um, you said you did the, the breakneck Ridge run. Uh, what other trail runs have you done that you would like to mention? Like some crazy fun stuff. Oh man. That a lot. Um, that was just the, the only, but so I've done a climate for climate breakneck and escarpment officially. So I got my three New York races, but I think if people are interested in some other races, which are also like hikes too, because that's my preference.

[01:01:27] Um, the white mountain endurance series is so much fun. I think my favorite race, this is a hard one. So there's a Mount Shakurwa race, which it's so cool. And Mount Shakurwa is so beautiful. It's right near Conway. That area is, is gorgeous. Um, and it's just like a nice little town, really good food. Cause I don't know if you're a runner food is the same, right? Like that's, that's what we need.

[01:01:53] That's, we don't need many, many things, but yeah, that is the reason why you guys run is so you can finish and have the food so quickly. Oh yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah. If you see me running, just like hook me up with a baked good. I'm your best friend, something like that. Um, but Mount Shakurwa race is so worth the visit here. Um, the bald face scramble is actually the race. My, my favorite race. Um, the bald faces are so gorgeous, but I skipped it for escarpment.

[01:02:22] Um, and I'm glad I did because it's, it's good to switch things up, but that is such a beautiful race. Um, Kilkenny Ridge race also gorgeous. And it's like a beautiful time of year. It's out in the middle of nowhere, but it's so worth it. Um, there's a race in Vermont called, uh, the Mozo double up, which I need to get back to, but, um, it's like 11 miles, but it's like 5,500 feet of climbing, which that is a lot of climbing and 11 miles.

[01:02:50] Um, escarpments about 5,000, a little bit under in about 18 miles. So 11 miles, like that is, you go up basically twice. Um, ironworks adventures. Uh, I think that adventure race, I think that's who puts it on, um, is great. Um, and then one of my ultimate favorite races is seven sisters, uh, in Western mass. Um, Amy Rizeki puts that on and it's absolutely beautiful.

[01:03:19] So I definitely have a, a type, um, and it's tactical and birdie. Um, those are probably the races I would shout out the most. And again, greatest communities, um, totally worth checking out. So now you said, uh, of those races, you skipped the bald face scramble to come to the escarpment. Now what's, what's the deal with that? What's what brought you to go after the escarpment?

[01:03:45] So Amy invited me to do climb climate for climate last year. And I couldn't, I couldn't make. And so Dick also reached out to me to do a escarpment after it. I'm like, Oh, I can't make both. I can't. We have a lot of animals. Um, two cats, three dogs. Yeah. And it's just like, and they're very active. So as much as I love and trust my friends, like it's a lot. I don't want to do that to people. And we do travel with the dogs and we make it work.

[01:04:14] But even our cats, one of them has pica and likes to eat plastic. If he doesn't get a rubber, if he doesn't get enough attention and has two emergency surgeries, it's a whole thing. So we just have to be very planful of what we do. So I just couldn't make that. And it wasn't feasible at the time. So I was like, I can't do it this year, Dick, but I will be there next year. I was. So I decided to do it this year and something again, I loved. I had heard about escarpment for a long time.

[01:04:43] Like people are like, you're going to love escarpment. Um, and all the pictures, I was like, yeah, I'm going to love escarpment. And all the posts about like, just the community and like how much they value each other. And it, it was like, oh, I meant to go do this race. Uh, I gotta go do this. I gotta go meet the people. I gotta go check out those trails. So it, yeah, it was already in my brain. I think maybe I manifested it or Dick has some kind of psychic powers. Cause he reached out to me. He's like, you gotta come do this.

[01:05:13] I'm like, yep, I'll be there. So then I ran it this year. So like, uh, how did Dick know that, that who you were? Like, I mean, have you of those previous races have you done? Have you won a lot of them? Uh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. That that's a big confidence saying. Hell yeah. I, I think again, there's so many different, not to take away from my abilities, but like, there's so many different kinds of runners.

[01:05:42] Um, and it's funny because like running a flat 5k, like I could have a decent time, but man, it's so brutal for me. It wouldn't be great. It doesn't compare to the things that I love. And I love a technical race. And I think like, I am fortunate in my abilities when I love something I can really move. And so I've been, and also like, this is what I'm constantly practicing on.

[01:06:08] So it's like, I get to run what I was already going to run surrounded by friends and people I care about. And I get free aid stations. Like, hell yeah. Why wouldn't I do that? And post run food and ice cream, like at a lot of the races I like. So like, this is a win win. Um, but yeah, I, I agree that, that, I mean, once again, the cats skills are types and then stuff like that.

[01:06:33] And like, I mean, coming into this, you know, you've, you've had a couple wins in your belts. Uh, you, you participated in all these runs. How was your confidence going into this race? Were you like, yeah, I can kick ass at this. This is something that I normally do. This is, this is easy. So when I first signed up, I was pretty confident.

[01:06:59] Uh, I was having a good season and I, I don't know. I go back and forth with that. I think we all do that. Right. Like I get into my head sometimes. And this was kind of like a bigger race for me this year. Um, cause it was like my one travel race. I might go to Canada, but we'll see about that. Um, yeah. Um, but as it got closer to, I had a really, really bad run on the Pemi loop.

[01:07:27] Like it was one of the worst and actually got a little bit scary out there. Um, and then I had a couple of practice runs before this. Cause I was kind of trying to guess the terrain because there's a huge difference between like up, down running. Um, seven sisters is very similar to escarpment in a sense where it's like, just, it's more rolling. And I would consider escarpment more rolling and runnable.

[01:07:51] Um, and the races I do like there it's, it's just more probably a bit more technical, um, rock slabs and some things like I'm using my arms. I mean, I was using my arms during a scarpment too, but just in a different way. Um, I got sick right before I was like, no, like the weekend before I was like, please not right now. I'm so excited to do this.

[01:08:19] And so I like a fever on and off for a few days. So my confidence was like, um, but I was like, I'm going like, I it's fine. Even if I take it a little bit easier, it's about the experience. Like if I need to drop, I will drop. Um, but my confidence was so low. I stayed with, um, my husband and my friend, Bonnie, who came in second during it. And she was trying to like, tell me about the race and stuff.

[01:08:46] And, um, and she was really helpful and letting me know, Haley, this is a bit more runnable than usual. So yeah, it's, I mean, you, you got once again, Wyndham and stuff. The only really technical part is blackhead going up blackhead and then coming down blackhead. You've dealt with that stuff in the white mountains continuously. And like, it's like, I always, I always see you guys when I, when I'm out in the trail and I'm, I'm in these technical spots and all of a sudden the trail runner comes down.

[01:09:15] It's like, you guys are remind me of like fucking frogs or something like that. Like you're hopping one foot on the other coming down and I'm just, my eyes are wide open. And it's just, you guys are a whole different breed with your, your running and stuff like that. How, how did, do you guys like, do you guys like communicate? Did you know that there's like, there's another trail runner? Do you have like some sort of language that you can only understand? What do you hold on? What do you mean?

[01:09:42] Like, like you guys, you guys are just like so different. Like, like, is it, is there something about like trail running that only trail runners get? Like what, what is, is so like, not so special, but it's just crazy. It's just crazy how you guys can endure this pain. You know, I think that's a, that's a really good loaded question.

[01:10:07] I think it's like, you know, people, I guess I'm going to answer this in hopefully just two parts, but I'll see people out there hiking. Um, and, and I'm doing a hike run too, but it's funny how many people are just like, wow, go get it. Great job. And I'm like, but you're out here too, but you're going to take longer. And I get back sooner to eat way more badass.

[01:10:34] You're carrying a pack that's like 50 pounds, maybe not 50. I have like enough water. Um, like I'm good, but, um, I have 10 essentials. Um, but I, I think, I always think it's funny. Cause I think people kind of almost voice that on the trail to me and I'm like, but look at you. Like you're doing the same thing. And if not harder.

[01:10:57] Um, but I also think with the rock hopping, some of it is like takes a little pressure off the knees. So I have noticed that sometimes hiking down hurts me a little bit after like I'm more sore from it. Um, done some course previews where I'm more sore doing a slower hike than I am actually running it. So I kind of wonder if there's something to that too. So that's like my answer to it.

[01:11:24] But I think once you kind of get that bounce step, um, and rock hopping down with just practice, like, even if you're doing it slow and remember, like you're using your arms, you're using a little bit of everything, like just kind of clicks, but you got to practice it, I guess. Um, now with trail running, do you have like certain, like, like watches or something like that, that you, do you monitor your like heart rate, your intervals, your times and stuff like that?

[01:11:53] Are you one of those people, you know, that you're running and you're checking your pulse and stuff? I don't know. No, no. Okay. I see people, I see runners doing that all the time. I'm just like, can you really like you're hopping back and forth? Like you can, can you really get a good, like reading? I, I think that, and this is just me. I have a watch. I, I need a new watch and I need to recalibrate it because it gives me extra distance. It makes me look faster than I am. Um, and, but it does do my vert correctly.

[01:12:22] It's, it's just an old watch and I probably hit it a few times. And the band that I have is a little bit loose, but like, it gets a decent writing of my heart. But sometimes like I, the other day, last night, um, I was saying one 46 when I was standing. So I'm like, okay, that's not right. Well then. Yeah. But, but I do think it's a good idea. So on top of the seizure disorder, I just also learned that I have a heart condition. Um, so that's something that I am also dealing with, but like, it's okay.

[01:12:51] And exercise is actually helping it. Um, but I need to be careful. So I have been a little bit more mindful of like keeping an eye on my heart rate. I, but I do think sometimes I have friends who constantly check and say, I need to keep my heart rate under this for a certain run. And I prefer to go with how I feel. I'll do like time on my feet.

[01:13:14] And then I'll say for me, what, what works is like Tuesdays, I try to do a Verde run. So I like to keep it like 4,000 feet between four and 6,000 feet. And then the rest of the week is like a little bit more runnable with like some workouts, but then maybe one speed and like another long birdie run on the weekend. But I, I just try to go with how I feel because I don't think sometimes you just read into it

[01:13:43] too much, you know, and you get in your head and it's like, you know, your body, like you need to connect with yourself and a watch isn't going to necessarily tell you everything you need to know, you know, like it's a gauge, but I don't know. I, I, you know, and I've always, I've always wondered cause I see a lot of people sometimes, you know, they're looking at their watch and they're seeing their pace or something like that. And like, Oh, I gotta kick it up a little, or, you know, I don't know about like heart rate or something like that.

[01:14:12] I just know when I'm going up and down my heart rate is extremely high. And then I, I just really, I look at it and I'm just like, that can't be correct. I'm probably having a heart attack, but I gotta, I gotta finish this. I can get something to eat. Yeah, exactly. And sometimes it isn't accurate. Like humidity can change your heart rate. Um, and I, I think we just like, it's good to monitor, but you really got to connect with your body because sometimes you're going to be racing and to keep looking at your watch and then you trip over something like, I don't know, I've done that so many times.

[01:14:41] So, so now with the race, the escarpment run, uh, are you usually when you're doing your runs is especially the escarpment in particular? Uh, are you all business of starting and finishing as the fastest or do you actually like stop once in a while, enjoy the scenery on there? Cause the escarpments got some really beautiful viewpoints and spots. So unfortunately this year, um, it did not go how I wanted it to. Uh, like I don't get me wrong.

[01:15:11] I appreciate the wind, but I'm going to come back. Um, I have to come back for myself. My husband's over here and he had to deal with me in the car on the way home because that was not my best performance. So that being said, I did not, I was not able to see much. Um, like I, I started cramping at mile seven or eight and that is very unusual for me maybe towards the very end.

[01:15:41] If it was really hot and humid and it was really hot, but humidity wasn't bad. Um, you know, I knew I was taking your risk, not a hundred percent, but like, I didn't know I was going to go. I didn't know it was going to be that hard. Um, I had time goals for this and finishing became the goal, which I didn't expect. Oh, wow. So what was your, you, you did finish three hours, 51 minutes, 27 seconds. What was your, your goal, uh, before that?

[01:16:11] So I really like, I'd like to keep this loose because I, first of all, I don't want to get cocky. It's a hard race. Like it is an, it is a hard race. Um, I did suspect that I would be under three and a half hours. Um, I had done two runs prior with more elevation that were like more technical, um, in about three hours and 15 minutes. And those were training runs. So I was like, all right.

[01:16:38] Um, so yeah, that was, that was different for me, but I was really proud that for cramping, um, for the last 10 miles, I'm pretty damn proud. I mean, your goal was, it was in the top 15. So that's, that's pretty good. Like that's with, with the men and stuff like that, you know, that are like killing themselves and stuff like that. And you're, you're out here cramping and stuff like that. And you're just like, but, but you push it on.

[01:17:06] So, no, excuse me, uh, about the, you know, let's, let's talk, let's go, let's break down the kind of like, uh, the, the run as a, hopefully you remember it now. Uh, let's like, kind of like do it. Yeah. Let's, let's do it in thirds. So, I mean, that's it's like every six, well, eight, every six miles. So we have, we're going from Wyndham high peak to blackhead. So that's kind of six miles. So I'm guessing seven miles.

[01:17:33] Like, what did you, what'd you think of that first six miles going up Wyndham high peak to the blackhead. You got blackhead, the technical, but Wyndham high peak is kind of like very, very, very runnable. I, yeah, I found Wyndham pretty runnable. I was like, wow, it was pretty cruisy. Um, I better be careful not to go out too hard because this is pretty fun. So I got it. I got to chill a little bit. And there was a couple of places with some roots and rocks that I was like, oh, I bet if I knew this trail, I bet people who know this trail could really be a lot more nimble through this.

[01:18:03] I love like thinking about that and being like, what would be the best route for me? Um, and I'm like, man, I wish I had come out here and kind of seen some of this before, but it was cool. I also love a new trail or new to me trail. So, um, I found it really runnable. Um, I, I tried to hold back. I did notice, I say, I don't look at my watch much, but I do like to look at the vert and like how long I've been running to kind of say, I don't get hungry when I run. I know.

[01:18:34] And then when I do after the run, I'm like, I'm not hungry. And I throw a little tantrum, but I need to eat. Um, so I try to like stick to like, my feeling is like every 30 to 40 minutes, I do a gel. Um, and that works for me. I'm trying to put in more calories cause I think I've been under feeling for a long time, but one gel. Wow. Well, for, for 30 to 40 minutes. That's insane. I died for 30 to 40 minutes.

[01:19:01] I want to have a whole fricking like, like sandwich and stuff. And then Doritos. Yeah. I, I mean, after, Oh my gosh, talk to me. Like I need a little bit after, but when it hits, it hits and it's like, everyone watch out cause I'm a scary person, but it was really runnable. I was like, man, I could probably go a little harder, but I did notice like my heart rate was a little high and like, Ooh, I'm going to just watch that. Um, I don't know if this is nerves. This is still a new to me race.

[01:19:30] Like, I don't know what's yet to come. So I, I need to be smart. So I tried to dial it back a little bit. Um, but it was super runnable. And I was like, I wonder where for me again, used to different kind of terrain. I was like, I wonder when the, when there's going to be more rocks. Like I was like, um, kind of looking forward to like the really gnarly climb because then I'll maybe feel like in my comfort zone a little bit. Cause it is very runnable.

[01:19:57] So what happened when you felt, when you hit the black blackhead area where you started actually getting the rocks and, and the good stuff. Oh, I was so sad because I was like, what the heck is this? I feel pain. I feel a pain in my calves and I'm like, what the heck? What? This is not, I haven't even done anything yet. Um, and I was like, you gotta be kidding me. Um, so I really, I started talking to a couple of guys there and they're like, we're just

[01:20:24] excited to make it under two hours here. And then like they were having a conversation that I could tell they started to fizzle out because all of a sudden it got quiet and quieter. And I'm like, oh, I guess we're done talking. Um, so, so I was like, all right, you gotta dial it back. Um, I don't know if you need to do a gel sooner. Like, I don't know what's going on, but you're starting to cramp. And this is really early. Cause I believe that was between like six and eight miles. And I'm like, this is way too soon.

[01:20:54] I was good on my hydration. I like to do like a bottle an hour ish. Um, and that works for me. I could probably do more, but too soon to be cramping like way, way too soon. Um, so that made me very nervous. So I was like, all right, let's, you know, take a little salt, like do what you need to do, make sure to grab two more bottles at, um, the next state aid station when you're

[01:21:20] around two hours and, um, you should be good to go from there. And it was blackhead fun. Uh, the little, I mean, it's not, it's not scrambling like the whites, but it's, it's, it's pretty nice. It's pretty technical. It, I wish, I wish I felt better because I think that like, it was, it was, it was homey for me. It was like, Oh, okay. Like I know this, but man, I was suffering there. So I was like, Oh no, this stinks.

[01:21:48] But that being said, it was nice. And it was nice to be talking to the people there too. And oh my gosh, the aid stations you get to, it's like people are, there's so many people cheering at this and like, thank you for being out here. Thank you. Um, I don't know. It was just, it was really fun. I was like still mentally there at that point. So that was good. Now you're up at, uh, where was the aid station? Was that at the summit of black dome or blackhead? I believe so. Yeah. Okay.

[01:22:16] So now you're going down to Arizona mountain stop a point and stuff like that. How are you feeling? How's everything going? You feeling good, better? Um, I was feeling better for a second. I wish so badly. I had asked them if they had a pickle juice shot because as I'm starting to go down, like, I'm like, you know, when the cramps get really bad, it's usually the downhill.

[01:22:42] Um, so I just had them in my calves before, or maybe it was my quads. I actually can't remember which one, but I was doing okay. The guy was like, Oh, probably be like 20 minutes down. Um, who I was running next to for a little bit. I'm like, all right, I'm good to the next aid station. Like I'll get something there. It took longer than 20 minutes. I, I felt good. And then I just didn't.

[01:23:09] And he, he actually, I don't usually get past too much on the downhill, but he passed me again. He's like, haha, sorry. I guess I underestimated that because it took us both longer than that. So it was kind of funny, but, um, definitely cramping there. But I was like, I did, I had like a salt stick chew thing and I was glad I brought a couple, but not enough. Um, and so I had one there and I, it was okay for a little bit. Okay.

[01:23:37] So now you're hitting, I don't know if you remember, you get up to the little flat area, beautiful Arizona mountain, and then you hit dutcher's notch that goes down at an obstacle point. How was that? That's a little, is it, was it unexpected or like, were you like this? It's going to be a fun spot. It's not really technical. No. Yeah. I was ready for some more uphill. Um, I didn't want to run down anymore. I was getting a little bit nervous. Cause I, again, was just like, man, I not feeling my best. So this is going to be, this is going to be a journey.

[01:24:07] Like definitely there. And this is probably one of the earliest I've been like, you can drop. You have been sick. Just, you could do this. And I was like, I am way too stubborn to do that right now. I can finish. I'm fine. I was just, I was being a little hard on myself and I was kind of forgetting the reason I was there anyway. And I, man cramps, if there's anything that's going to take you out, like you used to think those little side stitches from running were painful, but when you get cramps on your inner

[01:24:37] thighs, it's like, wow, there, that is the worst place to start cramping. Yeah. I can only imagine. Yeah. Um, I hope you never experienced that if you haven't, but it is a, it's not a nice place. It's very rare that I get it there, but today was the day or that day was the day. Um, really nice man had helped me refill my bottles there. They said, take a pickle juice shot. And I was like, yes. Yeah.

[01:25:05] Um, thank you for having this here because I was clearly unprepared. Um, so I did that and I, it took a little bit. I was feeling better for a little, not long, as long as I would have liked to, but that climb was nice. It just felt very slow for me, but I was like, I need to be smart. Like this isn't, this is going to be about finishing. It's not going to. Nice. Well, that's good. At this point.

[01:25:35] Um, what, uh, what'd you think of the plane crash on the trail? Um, Oh, uh, what happened? Uh, sorry. Um, I guess, Oh, I don't know if that was any better. Um, my husband was like, I'm going to jump in here for a second. Please, please. Hey, man. So how's it going? Good. So I would go down the course with the dogs.

[01:26:02] Like I usually do when Haley's racing, I ran to the plane crash site and then I turned around and went back to the finish to see her finish. So we were out on a walk or a hike a few days ago and I was like, dude, how about that plane crash site? That was pretty cool. Right? She's like, what plane crash? So I don't think she, I think within the greatest headspace at that point of the race. Uh, I, yeah, I also have to know I'll talk. It's fine. We're not even going to get into that.

[01:26:31] I, there's a reason I was feeling as, as bad as, um, I was, what we can, we can talk about that later, but I think I kind of remember it, but I also was getting to a point. I did not realize how poorly I was doing. Um, cause yeah, it's a little bit blurry. I think I thought I imagined it, but when he said it, I was like, oh, I kind of remember that.

[01:26:55] So I don't know how many miles that was in, but I guess I really was focused on finishing. So I really need to redo this race is what we're getting at. So the, like you said you were like poor, poorly. You were like, you're talking about like endurance wise, mentally wise, like, uh, like everything all the above, like cramping stuff like that. Like. I didn't feel, um, even after the race, I wasn't, this was really weird for me.

[01:27:25] I wasn't, it didn't feel like an endurance thing. Felt like my mind was starting to just, I was getting spacey, which I think happens to everyone as you're racing, but for the pace I was going, it was not one that should have made me feel like basically I was two beers deep or something, which for me is completely intoxicated. Um, and so it doesn't, I'm a, yeah, it doesn't take much. Well, those IPAs are a little stronger.

[01:27:55] What are the sours are a little strong. So yeah, yeah, no, I, oh my gosh, I have no tolerance. Um, a couple of sips of a beer. I'm like, I think I have a buzz. So, um, yeah, I mean, that's a great point. Like that, like when you space out, when you're kind of running, that's how it feels. You're like, you're almost like you're drunk and you're just like, Oh, let me slow down a little bit. Yeah. That, that was literally me. But on top of that, instead of having the alcohol to numb the cramps, I didn't have that. So I'm just, yeah, I was just kind of going through the motions.

[01:28:25] Um, there was a couple of really nice guys on the trail and I, do you remember the guy's name that kind of saved me? Oh, Matt has such a good memory. Adam, if you're listening to this podcast, shout out to you. He always brings extra electrolyte pills and he was giving them to me and he's like, I don't care about how I do. Like, I just take these, like, I can stay with you. Like, are you good as I'm like physically picking up my legs to move them? Cause I'm like, Adam, go run your own race.

[01:28:54] I will be okay. I was like, this is a race you go. He was so nice, but I'm like, that's the community. They're awesome. Um, but yeah, I was really out of it. So now you're talking about Adam and that brings me to my next question with the, with the trail running. I mean, I, I notice like there's a lot once and once again, the community is tight. Like you guys are talking and stuff. I see that in regular runs, like five K's and stuff like that. Nobody talks to each other.

[01:29:21] They're focused on God damn finishing or winning the run stuff. But on the escarpment, you're just like, you're, you're zoning out, but you're chatting with this guy. He's like, you're chatting with these people. That's pretty, that's pretty awesome. Do you like encourage or you just have conversations? What's what's going on? I think in the beginning it's a, it's a bit more conversations. Cause I think like, as you get in it, you're, we're riding this together at this point. And like, maybe we're not outwardly talking, but we're talking, we're communicating, but

[01:29:50] definitely there was a few people on the trail. And I, I hate that I was in a place where, but it happens where I was, I was in a lot of pain. Um, and everyone was being really nice, but like, it's nice to hear them talking back and forth and I could participate a little bit. And someone recognized me from some of the white mountain endurance series. And he's like, hi, you pass me on blah, blah, blah. And I was like, oh, cool to see you over here too.

[01:30:17] Like, um, so I, I don't know if that was the same guy or a different guy, because also I'm five one, everyone looks the same height, the same build at some point. I'm just like, and if they're behind you too, I don't know what you look like. Blue shorts, red short. Like, I don't know. That's how I remember them. So, um, I'm surprised. Yeah. Thank you again, Matt, for remembering Adam.

[01:30:39] But I ever, yeah, we do talk, but it becomes a little more scarce towards the end. I think when we're all like, all right, let's finish this. We'll talk after. Yeah. Right. I mean, I'd say, I mean, once again, that's pretty cool. Like that you're, you're, you're, you're running with these people and you're having a, maybe a full on conversation that you, you won't be able to remember at the end of the race, even though it's only been four hours. Like it's, it's just, it's, it's crazy. It's fun.

[01:31:09] You know, I think it's, it's pretty cool. Guys giving you some, some gels and stuff like that. You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just take it. That was so nice. Like he, I really appreciate that. But when he did say like, no, it's cool. Like, I don't care about how I do. Like, I'm just, you know, I'm just out here. And I'm like, Adam, go run your race. Like after he gave me. Is that, was he, was, did he finish ahead of you? Do you remember? I think at that point. Yeah. Cause I think it was only like a couple miles towards the end.

[01:31:39] I see. I see one Adam ahead of you. So he was 47 or 17 seconds ahead of you. That's insane. Oh, I thought he was farther than that ahead of me, but I, I don't know. Yeah. That's funny. The yeah. That last mile ish, which was my bread and butter. And I just couldn't, I was like, man, I'm just going to have to shuffle through this. This sucks.

[01:32:07] It looks so happy crossing the finish line though. Um, I think if you know me because Matt had noticed it, I'm like, you see my face during this. I couldn't. I, I like to really go all at the end. It's kind of my obnoxious thing where I like really dig deep and I'm going to make myself hurt. That was one of my slowest finishes, um, through the finish line.

[01:32:33] And that was actually like a grimace because as soon as I stopped, like, I was like, Oh, Nope. Can't run. Can't run. I'm like, I'm cramping. Um, I was cramping really bad. Um, and it was probably a smile actually for relief. Cause I'm like, Oh dear God. So I'm getting, I'm guessing Matt needs to be on the trail more often, throw you some more sours and beers and stuff like that. Just imagine running beside like three people running past someone chugging a beer. I got this.

[01:33:03] This is how you solve cramps, not pickle juice. Come on. Yeah. Well, when it comes to that, to the last aid station, I was like, just get to the next aid station for pickle. Just get, get to the next aid station. He's like, I'm so sorry. We forgot the pickle. Yeah. Yeah. If you have pickle juice, you got to keep doing it. Um, or it's not going to work. So when did pickle juice become like a big game in trail running?

[01:33:29] Like it's just, it didn't, it seemed like it's, it's just had like taken a boom in the past couple of years. I guess so. And normally I don't even need it, but again, there's more to it. I can tell you about that. Um, when we get into like post race stuff, but, um, I, I don't know because now they have those little shots that you can buy, um, from the gas station and stuff and it saved me. So I'm going to, I'm going to be taking those from now on, I think, unless anyone else has

[01:33:56] some like smaller recommendations, but it really did help for, again, not as long as I wanted to, but it did help. So yeah. Crazy. Now, do you talking about all this cramping and stuff like that? Like, uh, did you have any like times when you like, maybe had, I call them the, Oh, fuck moments of where like, maybe you slipped or, uh, you caught yourself and you're just like, Oh fuck. Or maybe even with the cramping, it sounds like that was kind of an old fuck moment. Yeah.

[01:34:25] So the whole thing was an old fuck moment after mile eight. Um, I, I would start to get into like, and I love this cause I feel like only runners can use this. And someone pointed this out to me a while ago, but I love it when you get into the groove of running. Um, I, I felt like I would get into it and then all of a sudden just, I noticed for me when I stomp a little bit harder, which you kind of have to do depending on like how steep

[01:34:53] something is and like how rocky it is, like that rock hopping, I would get, um, a cramp in, in my inner thigh. And so every time that was a, oh, fuck. And then, you know, I'd start to run a little bit and it, I just feel it here and there. Um, and that last section, because you're kind of bounding over things like you can cruise a little bit, but not for me, I wasn't really cruising. Um, but then you'll have to like go down something a little bit more technical, which again, usually my thing.

[01:35:24] I start to cramp in a, oh fuck. Um, so yeah, there was a lot of those. Now is this like the cramping? I noticed like, cause when you like more bend towards the back here, you're so there's that kind of like the technical spots were giving you the more of the cramps than on the flat running surfaces. Yeah. That's gotta suck. You know, you're like, God, I can do this. And it's like, Oh, like once again, oh fuck. Yeah. Yeah. It sucks because like, that was, that's usually my, that's usually my strength.

[01:35:52] Um, and not, not this day. No, you'll, you'll be back. This sounds like you'll be back into. Oh my God. Yeah. I, and you know what? Like I, I hate putting time goals out there, but I will beat my time. I don't know if that leads me in top three, but I will beat my time. I need another chance. Like I need to. Yeah. Did you, did you ever know with this, this, this run that you were in the lead or you just

[01:36:21] basically at one point you're just like, I'm fucking finishing this. Screw this. Um, yeah. People were telling me, um, I actually hate that. I, I know this might sound weird. I'm so grateful for people being out on the trail cheering each other on. Um, and I know that some people like to know what placement they're, they're in or how far they are behind the leader. I'm good. I don't want to know.

[01:36:47] I, yeah, I don't, there's something about, especially like when someone's like first lady, first lady, I'm like, no, no, no, that's not why I'm doing this. I know that might sound weird. Yeah. I, it's a little bit, maybe it's just like something deeper in me that I'm just like, well, yeah, that's cool. But I'm still running with the men. Like I'm still up here with the men. I don't know. Yeah. Maybe that's just a, a me thing, but, um, Well, next time be like, ah, la, la, la, la, la, la.

[01:37:15] Like, like, yeah, I, I smile and stuff, but I, or, and sometimes I'm going to be like, yeah, I mean, for now, like you never know. Right. Right. So you never know. So, um, it's just a thing like, and I do appreciate, I hope that doesn't come across. Like I still appreciate people out there cheering. Just sometimes I think it, it, it maybe puts a little bit of pressure, which is a personal thing to me. Like I'm sensitive.

[01:37:41] I don't really want to know unless it's like, I'm so close to the finish line. Like the leader is two minutes ahead of you. Like, all right, you can tell me that. Yeah. But like, I don't know. Um, so with all this, like you're, you have 18 miles, you know, you're doing your endurance runs and stuff like that. Are you, one thing that I w I want to know with, with most trail runners, are you listening to something like music in your head?

[01:38:08] Like, do you have, do you have earbuds in or are you just going with the flow of like your, your, your, your breathing and stuff? You kind of like monitoring that and stuff. It's just, I've always wondered that. Um. For, for a training run, if I'm like really. If I'm really struggling, I think like mentally there's a chance I'll put in music, but also

[01:38:32] that's also a chance for me to be like, okay, well you need to be with nature right now and listen to yourself because there's, there's something deeper going on and you got to ground yourself because distracting yourself is not a thing, but sometimes, but also sometimes like some music will start playing and I love music and I'm like, I want to add some music to my playlist and listen to it. Um, I just feel like that right now. Um, and I don't know about you.

[01:39:00] Like maybe this is cheesy, but sometimes I need a good cry when I run and song just hits and it feels so good. And it like, it might be a good, it might be a sad cry. It might be a good cry. But once in a while, like, I don't know, music really fuels me. Um, and then on the other hand, sometimes I'm listening to some podcasts and I'm like, if anyone could hear what I am listening to right now, they would think I'm a psychopath, like true crime. And there's hunters that you're running in. Like, why are you doing that to yourself right now?

[01:39:33] Oh, yeah. Like you're stopping and people are like, what the hell is this girl doing? Yeah. But never during a race. Um, I will, I'm like, that takes way too much out of the experience for me. If I was doing 50, 100, that's a different story. I think that you get a pass there, like go ahead and throw those headphones in. But I think for the distances I do, I really want to connect myself with the experience.

[01:39:59] Um, and also, I don't know, just like that makes you tougher in a sense. Like, I feel like I get stronger when I don't have the headphones in. I feel it's more natural. Like it's you're, you're like a, I wouldn't say an old time runner, but you're, you're more, you're, you're more with nature. Like you said, you're more grounded when doing that and such. And then like, I, I don't know, I can, I can, I can never do that.

[01:40:24] I always loved like, you know, once you once again, you said before you get the forgers and stuff like that, you hear the birds and stuff. And then they're like, you're like running. You're like, Ooh, that sounds like a thrush right there. Ooh, that's a blue jay. And then it's, it's great to hear that stuff. And then like, you'll be with somebody like be by somebody. Did you hear that thrush earlier? And they'd be like, yeah, I was listening to my headphones. Like, ah, never mind. Yeah. It feels weird sometimes too. Like, I guess it's better.

[01:40:50] I rather have headphones than play music on the trail, especially if it's music I don't like. But, um, I, I guess, I don't know. Yeah. I just feel like they're missing out on a connection, but I also am like, you got to do what you got to do for yourself. Like whatever kind of heals you. But I, I just need to be grounded. Like I have, we have so much simulation around us. Like that's not natural. Like this is my chance.

[01:41:18] So that, and I also am running with my three dogs a lot. So it's like, I got to keep an eye on them. Correct. Correct. That person. Yeah. So, so Matt's at the finish line and you cross the finish line. How does that feel? What are, what are you, what are you thinking when you cross the finish line? Did you know you, you got first place? Did you, are you just basically like shoot me right now? Yeah. I knew, I knew I got first place.

[01:41:44] Um, I get this thing where I'm like, well, because there was tape too, but I was actually. Like, can you guys hold the table a little looser? Cause I'm cramping. So they didn't, it didn't immediately fall down and I did not have the strength to like kind of push it, but they didn't obviously who would know that. But I'm like, Oh, I need you to let that go on the ground. Um, cause I can't run into that right now. Nice. But, um, I was so really like, like I, I did hear everyone clap and stuff, but I was pretty out of it.

[01:42:11] But I, towards the end of races, especially really hot ones, I think everyone kind of has their thing that they crave. And I know that I'm kind of hitting a danger zone when I start craving that. And although I don't have them anymore cause they're so not that I don't have things that are bad for me, but I crave a blue raspberry culotta from Dunkin Donuts. I don't know why. Interesting. Yeah.

[01:42:34] So I fulfill it with the only time I really drink soda, um, is after during a race if I really need it during, but I just like beelined over and had a ginger ale. That's like the only thing I could think about was I need to drink so badly. Um, and it was should have been, it should have been a beer, Matt, Matt. I'm disappointed that you didn't have a beer right there. Tosser. Like that would have been the most epic photo finish of her, like catching a beer while crossing the finish line from you.

[01:43:04] So like with three dogs, you missed out usually at races that give out a beer ticket. I go to those cause I get her. She doesn't really drink. That's the only reason he comes. He's like, your beer, your beer ticket. Like, yeah. And then our friends, some of them don't drink. They give him his beer ticket. So I know why he comes to the races. Like he can come up there. So when, yeah, Matt, what did you, what do you think when you, you saw her weed? Did you know about what was going on and stuff?

[01:43:33] Was she telling you, or did you like, so I kind of had a feeling that she wasn't feeling great. Just by the way she came through the finish line. Like she said earlier, generally she sprints through the finish line. Like I've heard people standing around there like, oh my God, like how does she have so much energy left? And probably not a good thing, but she didn't link through the finish line by any means, but it wasn't. It wasn't like her usual finish.

[01:44:03] And when I went over to congratulate her, I could just see in her eyes that it wasn't, the lights weren't all the way on. That's what he says. I get like these skeleton sunken in eyes when I've had a couple of really bad races. Um, and they were there. You can look in the pictures. Like I can barely keep my eyes open in some of those pictures. I was not one. Wow. I'm going to have to go through those.

[01:44:32] Cause I do have you crossing the finish line. I do have that picture. It's going to be for the picture. I love that picture. I do think they did a great job capturing me smiling, but I think part of it is like, oh God. I better smile. Everybody's taking my picture. That's good. That's good. I mean, it's, it's, it's great. Once again, that you participated in this and it was a fantastic time. So, uh, now afterwards where you, you have a ginger ale that you say to Matt, what is the, what's the first thing you say to Matt?

[01:45:02] What is the first thing that you say? Like, like this, this sucks. Let's go get some. The first thing that you said was that was really rough. And then it was, can you help me untie my shoes? I can't bend down. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. I, and I tried to, and unfortunately like for the few races, like, and again, it's usually just so much closer to the end that I've had cramps.

[01:45:31] Um, I have made the mistake, like have someone help you untie your shoes. Cause the moment you bend down, you're not getting back up. And that's, I started cramping again. You'll be the one looking like you're in a coffin because you're trying to straighten out their legs to get those cramps out. And I go, should we help her? Should we have no, no, no, no. Let me, let me have a first aid come over to me and check on me. And they're like, do you have any medical issues? And I was like, oh shit.

[01:45:58] You know, when you're like, you kind of hesitate, especially like telling people you're epileptic, but it's controlled under medication. Like, you know, you're good, but it's always like, oh shit. Do we really need to go down this? Like I've had a lot of medical issues, but that's usually the more significant one. And then the cardiomyopathy is also there. I did not tell them about that. Cause I'm like, I don't want to freak you guys out. Like I'm okay. I'm just really dehydrated. And I, I knew that.

[01:46:23] Um, and I also, again, on top of that, the being sick, I do, I don't get sick very often anymore. I used to, but like when I'm getting a fever and I'm sleeping like 12 to 16 hours a day, you know, something's wrong. Cause I don't do that. Um, and I, I did feel good. Like, well, maybe not my, not a hundred percent, the few days leading up to it, but yeah, I was just really wiped out. So I was like being sick, being dehydrated.

[01:46:49] Like, I know what this is, but I was like, I have a seizure disorder, but I'm fine. Like I, it's just like took their time and walking away. And one of the, another woman who kept coming up saying, I'd like to get your picture. Um, are you sure you're okay? And I'm like, yes, I'm okay. Like she was really concerned with me. And I'm like, I know I look bad. I'm okay. Like it happens. Um, this is just a really rough day. Nice. Nice.

[01:47:15] So now you, I remember you saying like towards the end of the race, uh, you usually don't think about, uh, what you want to eat, what you're craving and stuff like that. And you know, you're in a bad mood. So what were you craving and what did you have, have after the race? I was not craving anything, but drinking anything. And this is also the thing where I know that I'm not really like not doing a while. Um, I was really nauseous. I think it was actually just chugging the seltzer and soda and I needed to burp, but.

[01:47:43] Um, but I, it took me a really long time. I actually don't think I ate until quite a few hours later. And I, where did we go? Do you remember? We went somewhere in, um, Tanner'sville. Mama's boy burgers. Yeah. Yeah. I had a milkshake and fries and it was perfect. It was, that's it. Wow. I know. But the thing about me is when it hits, we're stopping for food.

[01:48:13] And we're stopping. True. So not only on the way home when we finally, and this is so bad because there's nothing on our drive home. Not only did we stop for pizza, but we also got Chinese food. Nice. We hammered Chinese food and I don't even think I ate that much of it. Cause I still didn't feel good, but the next day it was gone. Yeah. Right. Oh wow. Yeah. It, I just sometimes get pretty nauseous after my stomach just doesn't like, I don't know.

[01:48:42] Sometimes it takes longer than others, but normally when it's an okay race and like I'm feeling okay after I usually want a burrito or an egg sandwich. There's something about like, I know. So burritos, yes, they're full of carbs and everything. They are just, they're so good after a run or something like that. That's why I wish there was more Mexican restaurants out of, out of, out of everywhere, man.

[01:49:06] This is, oh, that's just have burrito that we need to have a, we will make our own burrito run where at the end of the run, you get a big fat burrito. So this is going to be fastest known times of everybody's going to be like sprinting and pushing each other and stuff. Nice. Please start a burrito, burrito league, burrito race something. I don't race, but I would actually do that. What about like aid stations with burritos? Well, is that too much or you puke? I'm puking. Okay. Okay.

[01:49:35] So at the end at the one minute, I gotta be at the end. I wish I was one of those people. And I used to be that could just shovel whatever and keep running. I, uh, I got my appendix. I had an appendix partially ruptured during a race and that was bad. Yeah. And ever since that happened, and then I had to have my gallbladder out a couple or like a couple of years after, I just gotta be so much careful with my food. I just get like acid reflux.

[01:50:01] It's not, not terrible, but par for the course. Like Matt. Wow. Matt, you got a lot to do with right here, buddy. Like it's just everything. I'm her coach. I'm her personal chef. All right. Let's relax. I'm the drinker. No, she's the driver. You're the drinker. Yeah. He no on the trips. He refuses to let me drive. He really likes to be the one driving. I'm like, dude, just let me drive. But after this race, he was like, you are not driving, which was fair.

[01:50:31] That wasn't a safe. That wouldn't have been a safe drive. Yeah. I don't want, I don't want somebody cramping their leg up and then pushing the gas and not being able to let go. Like no kidding. That could have been. We're in a hyper drive now. So, all right. So, uh, Haley, I really appreciate your joy. And Matt, thank you for joining me tonight. Wait, wait, we gotta tell you one more thing. Please, please do. So we figured out. So I had a couple really bad runs prior to this.

[01:50:59] Also wondering why I was like really having a hard time. I just switched, um, to a different fueling, which I thought was great. But my lovely husband is the one who helps me fill those beforehand. Somebody read the label wrong and has been filling all of her bottles with half of the serving size. So when we thought that she was having 500 milligrams of sodium per bottle, it was only 250.

[01:51:30] Oh, my sodium has been, I may or may not have almost. She has cramped at each of her last races and long runs. And it's, yeah, it's my fault for relying on him for that. But we did do out the math because I'm like, I gotta figure this out. Why, why am I falling apart? But my sodium has been like, I think the safe range is like 2000 to 4000.

[01:51:54] Mine's been so low compared to that and my carbs and my potassium. And I'm like, so I think, sorry, that was the last piece. No, no. I think we figured. So lesson for everyone read the serving size. Oh, my gosh, that will make a big difference. So. So, Matt, did you admit to this? Oh, yeah. I was doing math for her last run. We did a long run kind of together on Sunday. And I just felt like crap again. Yeah.

[01:52:22] When we get home, he saved every packet, every gel that she had. So I'm sitting there doing out the math and it was like, what's going on? Let me see your fuel. And then that's when I see the back. So I did the correct math if I had filled them properly. And I was like, oh, well, if we had been where you were supposed to be, you would have been right in range. Probably wouldn't have cramped. Probably would have felt a lot better. But yeah, that one. But you know what? I cried because I was like, it's not me.

[01:52:53] Okay. Like. At times like that, I see. What is it? The how I met your mother where she's like, you son of a beach. Like she says that. I should have done that. You son of a beach. He's like, well, you could have died. So it's. Okay. See, there's another meme. But did you die? Yeah. There we go. So you finished first place. You got the win. That's all that matters. Right? Let's go get something to eat. Yeah.

[01:53:23] Yeah. Well, good. Well, thank you for joining me tonight. I really appreciate it. And, you know, had a fantastic time. Once again, I'm glad that you dig our community. I'm glad you're into the community kind of stuff because that's what it is. It's. Yeah. It takes a village. And, you know, I think, you know, the trail runners once again are a different breed and you guys all connect together and stuff. And it's great to see these races popping up. And I love to hear and chat about them and stuff. So it's really good. Yeah. We're happy to be there.

[01:53:52] That was such a inviting community, even being able to do this. Like, thanks. I think you're always, it's cool to just have conversations, like make more connections. And like, I know I have more people to reach out to if I'm visiting the Catskills and like more places to explore. So thank you. Definitely. Definitely. It's cool. We're happy to have you here. And once again, I'll get that helicopter up to you for the climate for climate change. I mean, the sponsors and stuff will pay for it. It's not that much money. Oh, there we go. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:54:22] So thank you for joining me and hopefully to see you in the future, maybe for a future run, we'll have a live show or event and stuff and we'll get together. Sounds good. Matt, good to meet you. Good to meet the, the kitties too. I saw them popping up in the background. That's fantastic. So have a good night. Thank you. Bye everyone. I just want to thank you for listening to the show. If you enjoyed the show,

[01:54:50] subscribe and throw down a smooth review on Spotify, Apple podcasts, or any podcast platform that you use. You can also check daily updates of the podcast, hikes, hiking news, and local news on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and the official website of the show. Remember this, you got to just keep on living in the Catskills, man.

[01:55:18] N-I-V-I Wicked, wicked, wicked, wicked.