Episode 163 - New resort near Blackhead, high ticket prices at Windham, ADK Wildlife Refuge for sale

[00:00:29] The bushwhacks were some of the worst days I've ever had in the mountains, or life, really. Whereas Pansy Mountain is totally opposite, it's a mountain on top of a crater. I think the weather challenges on this incident were particularly difficult. It is really the development of New York State. Catskills will respond to it.

[00:00:52] You're listening to Inside The Line, the Catskill Mountains Podcast. Rock and roll. I'm ready to do this. Rock and roll. So episode 163, unfortunate last-minute cancellation.

[00:01:16] Tia Banks, motivational speaker about climbing mountains and stuff, has unfortunately had an incident that we have to reschedule until April. So Tia will be joining us later on, on a later episode. But tonight's going to be me and Tad. We're just going to be shooting the shit, talking about our recent hikes. That's going to be really fun. But we have a lot of stuff going on.

[00:01:39] And then, then some mostly stuff in the Catskills, which I'm very proud of, you know, doing some, some research and what's going on in the Catskills. So we have, Tia was supposed to come on, but she'll be on a later episode. So she'll be talking about that resilience and, and how she can tackle any trail later on. But we have the prices of Ski Windom for the 2025, 2026 season.

[00:02:03] And over in Cairo, right near that Cairo, Cairo, whatever you call it. There's a lot of things like Hawkett, Hawkett, Cheryl, Cheryl. Town board has ruled that a new resort will have major environmental impacts, but I don't think everybody's convinced yet. And Adirondack wildlife refuge is on the market. So if anybody has some big cash, let's all get together and do this.

[00:02:27] And recent hikes, that might be the tail end of the winter season. So 163, let's, let's get it on. I don't think that's the right song. No, no, that's horrible. Tad's just like, what the hell did I get myself into? I'm out. I'm reading about the Cairo planning board determined that the project, which seeks to transform an existing hotel, yada, yada, yada. Not yet, not yet.

[00:02:55] Not yet. I'm just, I'm catching, I'm getting up to speed while you're bullshitting. Dude, it's so, it's so good. It's, it's, it's that, you know, I didn't know about it until now, like three days ago. Oh yeah. Yeah. Dude, I've, I've hiked through there. You were going to go over and protest if you had known, were you going to do like a sit in where you're going to go and like throw your body down in the main thoroughfare and protest. I don't think about that crazy. Were you going to burn your Tesla in protest?

[00:03:23] Oh my God. Let's do, do not get into that, that BS. I already had some talks about it tonight. Uh, when I was over at my friend's house. So I'm trying to pull up all this stuff on the, uh, the, the Wyndham, the Wyndham ski resort. So ski Wyndham releases prices for the 2025, 2026 season.

[00:03:44] And, uh, you know, I don't know if you've seen this, Ted, I, I'm pretty sure because of the show notes you have, but all I gotta say is that it is a little sky high. Sky high. Sky high. I mean, I'm not talking about sky high. I'm talking about blaze helicopters sky high. So, uh, you know, have you, have you seen stuff about this? I haven't seen the prices. I know what they are at other places.

[00:04:12] I'm glad that my, my days of, well, I'm not glad that my days of skiing with my daughters are over, but back when the three of us used to go out skiing, it was an expensive day back then. Where, where are you? Where you used to go out skiing? Oh yeah. Well, we would go to Wyndham. We'd go to Bel Air. Um, we'd go to butter. Not we'd go to cat amount. We'd go to mountain Greek. We'd go to elk. We, we got around anything within a day's drive.

[00:04:42] We'd go to the house. Other than hunter mountain. We would hit. For real. Yeah. Well, what was your specific, uh, dislike of hunter mountain? Um, hunter mountain has a lot of skiers. So going there with my kids, I felt was not a safe place to go. Plus they have these. Yeah.

[00:05:01] Plus if you hunter mountain has these slopes that they've cut into the side of the mountain that actually on one side of the slope, they have these huge retaining fences built out of wood to keep the snow more on the slope area than rolling off the slope area. And what happens when you get these episodes of warm weather and that snow pack contracts, get smaller.

[00:05:27] As it consolidates, you get like this gap between the snow pack and the wooden wall. And I was always afraid that one of my kids would go in there. Oh, wow. As a concerned parent. I didn't go there with my daughters. What trail? What kind of trail was that? Was that a, uh, uh, uh, I don't know. It was a trail at hunter mountain. They're all, all of the old trails are kind of the same. I mean, my opinion, outrageous. The sky is a protest of a hundred mountain trail. So, so let me, let me tell you the prices of, of ski wind them.

[00:05:57] So a seven day, this is, uh, uh, one person I remember posted this. That's the combined cost of an icon and an epic pass is less than the cost of a window mountain club season past. So Tad, you being a skier, you have the knowledge of skiing in the previous, I don't know how many, almost all of your life. What can you say about that so far? What? Um, I don't, when I was back in my days of skiing, there was no epic passes or icon passes.

[00:06:25] We, you'd either have a season pass, a multi-day pass or a single day pass. Some places you could go and buy, buy lift rides by the hour. You know, I think, um, Greek peak used to be one of those places that you'd buy like six or eight hours of lift time. So, um, unfortunately, just give me the prices. I know it's, it's prohibitively expensive. All right.

[00:06:51] So a seven day, uh, week, which is seven day of a full week season pass for a non senior adult is $2,000. No icon or epic pack. Um, that's Wyndham. So for Hunter, it's $1,051. That includes the epic pass. So a weekend adult ski program is $1,600. When at Hunter, it's $999.

[00:07:19] Uh, a locker at Wyndham is $1,200. A locker at Hunter, $300. All in total $4,800 for Wyndham. $2,350 for Hunter. And then you can go off to Platyco for, I don't even know how much. Yeah.

[00:07:40] Well, Platyco is not open on weekdays, except for an exceptional, like a holiday, or they still might have that practice where if they get more of a foot of snow, they'll open up the next day. Wow. So what can you say about those prices? Sir, being a skier, pro skier. Yeah. Well, you know, back, back when I started skiing in the seventies, you know what I would pay for a midweek day pass at your typical New York state ski area? 80 bucks.

[00:08:11] $10. Holy shit. What the, oh my God. Oh, he's going to get something right now. He took the earphones off and the headphones off. He's probably got a pass in the back on old pass. I thought I had handy. Um, I used to have, uh, uh, in the old days used at the ski shop, they would have like one of those cardboard or, or poster board handouts.

[00:08:39] They'd give you with all the local ticket prices. So I had one from 1977 with all these, like, yeah, like one ski area was during the week. It was $5. Another would be a, you know, but you'd go to a more established mountain. You'd pay 10 bucks. You'd go during the week. You wouldn't wait in the lift line. You'd ski great snow. Cause nobody had snow making skiing in the seventies was fantastic. Other than you had really crappy ski gear.

[00:09:05] Cause they didn't have all the special fabrics back then, but that's all right. You didn't spend a lot of time waiting in line. You did most of your day. You spent skiing. Wow. But 10 bucks. Yeah. 10 bucks. So no. So now, and you know, with these, so here, here you want it. So back when I was in college, I used to buy the summit County, summit County, Colorado season pass.

[00:09:29] That's Breckenridge, copper, Keystone and Arapahoe basin for significant Rocky mountain ski areas. A season pass was how much in the early eighties. I'm guessing a hundred bucks, 250 bucks, 250 bucks. You could, you could do world-class skiing all season long, especially at Arapahoe basin. Cause they had the, they would be able to go past the mid April cutoff for the Rockies.

[00:09:56] So you, you could, you could ski your legs off for 250 bucks. Now you cut your legs off and have to donate them. Yeah. Now, now 250 bucks at Wyndham gets you a lift ticket and a beer. Not even a helicopter fricking ride. Yeah. So Jesus. That's why I don't have a burning desire. Why? I want to go skiing again, but I just, with the prices, the way they are, I wouldn't go skiing in the East in January. So I have the question of this.

[00:10:26] Can you hike up from anywhere in, you know, the Catskills areas and go down, like, let's say cave mountain, which is Wyndham. Uh, and then that ski down, like, is that. So, well, that's a, that's a Julia McGuire question. Yeah. She, she, they, they, she skins up the slope at various areas. Each, each has their own policy or practice.

[00:10:51] Some require you to buy a day pass to ski the ski area, but not ride the left. I don't know if they still do it, but for the longest time, some areas would let you skin uphill and ski down for free. They didn't make you buy any day pass or other pass to go do that. But I would imagine some areas are probably collecting.

[00:11:15] Well, I need a $50 based upon what you say for a, you know, a day pass to skin up or skin up and ski down. But that's certainly a good workout. You can't just ski up on there, like sneak up on their area and then ski down. Well, I'm sure it was way back when we, one of the fun things to do was to go in before the area opened and get to the top of the mountain and ski down before anybody else did when everything was fresh. Or ski patrol went up there and stuff. Yeah.

[00:11:43] Well, you know, when I was growing up skiing, we, we knew the ski patrollers, so we, we could get around on the hill. Damn man. You go at night when they're, when they're the area shut down, but they're making snow and the snowmakers would give us rides up. You know, we had our ways. Jesus. This is awesome. Yeah. One of my best friends growing up, his father owned one of the local ski areas. So. Wow. Wow. I'm trying to think of that. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm falling behind.

[00:12:11] Uh, have you ever seen that movie out cold? The snowboarders up in a Colorado where someone's trying to take over their resort. Uh, this is like a 90s. Well, I'll have to send you a link, but it's, it's, it's like, I seriously picture this as Wyndham where this is a cool laid back town. They smoke weed, they drink, everybody's like good and well acquainted with each other. And then all these big wigs come in and they're just like, well, this looks horrible. Yeah. Let's just, you know, I'm the locals destruct this put this in.

[00:12:40] We're making gold passes here and there. I own this area. Stuff like that. And of course the locals are like, screw this man. This isn't fun anymore. All these big people are coming in with helicopters and stuff like that. And, you know, it's, I see this, the same exact, that scenario is that, you know, like, they're like, Hey, we're going to take over this town.

[00:13:02] And, you know, what I've seen on, on a good old Facebook, you know, of course is like the people of Wyndham and even some of the people that own the condos are just like, this is getting a little outrageous. Like, yeah, well imagine, I don't know what a seasons passes at Wyndham, but if you have a family of four to six and you need to buy a season pass for each family member, you're going to spend a lot of money doing that.

[00:13:27] You're going to spend your, I don't even know what to say up here. Like, I'm sorry, but the people up here can't afford it. So, but as I sort of said at the beginning for me, at least if I could ski all winter long at a ski area with my kids, when they're growing up, it's worth the money. Right. I would, I would invest the 10 or $12,000 on season tickets and gear and whatnot to spend a season skiing with them as opposed to putting that.

[00:13:57] money in this pipe 401k. Interesting. Yeah. Get them out. Yeah. Well, cause they only grow up once. So when they're growing up, spend your time with them and you know, you're, you can, you can work until age 70, 75. Yeah. Or you can spend that extra money and then go over to Platykill. Yeah. Or you can go camping with them. Look, I mean, for me, and I'm sure for a lot of people skiing with my, my daughters was tremendous fun. I really had a good time skiing with them.

[00:14:27] But you know, that's the same thing. I'm sure some fathers are like really stoked about taking their kids out fly fishing. Right. You know, where you're standing, you're standing in the water all day. And to me, it seems like a low adrenaline sport on the one hand. But on the other hand, if you're really into fly fishing, I'm sure you get all stoked up about doing it with your kids or golfing with your kids or whatnot. You're out with your kids. You're sharing what you like to do with them. I'm all for it.

[00:14:54] Even if you have to buy a $2,500 seasons pass or something to go ski at Wyndham. And frankly, I think Wyndham has much better terrain than Hunter Mountain, in my opinion. Other than that, that Southwest faced it at Hunter when they have snow on it is good skiing. So, the more steeper, like the Black Diamond and stuff like that? Well, it's not only that, but it's also, it's got better sun exposure. So, the lighting is better over there.

[00:15:23] The snow with the sun will soften up before other parts of the mountain. You get less flat light. So, you know, it's a decent area to ski. But the problem is they don't get a lot of snow on it. Either it blows off. They don't make a lot. Whatever. Whatever, you know, it's the good days of skiing that part of the mountain are few and far between. However, if you go to- The Southwest side, they don't have snowmakers on those Southwest sides. Oh, they have to. They would never get enough.

[00:15:51] Well, they rarely would get enough natural snow to make that viable. It all blows up on the East side and then doesn't swift over to that East rough side and stuff like that. Well, no, it gets over there when they blow it. When you blow snow, it's fairly heavy. You can point the guns down lower so it's not carried by the wind. You don't blow snow on a windy day when it's all blowing off the mountain. You know, there's different variables you can utilize to get greater snowblowing efficiency.

[00:16:20] But the best skiing in the Catskills, in my opinion, is Plattacill. I've heard so much good stuff about them this year. They have been ripping it up. Let's hope they listen to the podcast and they get on it. So why don't you, I've been aching to go skiing. Why don't we go out? If it's going to be a sunny weekend day, I'll hit Platy. If you supply me with skis, I haven't been out snowboarding in over like 20 years. So snowboarding, skiing.

[00:16:49] I know French fry and pizza. If you can take me and you can film me doing this amazing stuff. I'm going to bring Alex. He's our new cinematographer. He's going to catch you going down the hill. I'm going to get, I'm going to rent him a skidoo snowmobile for the day. So he can video you falling on your ass, sliding down the hill, screaming like a baby. I won't be screaming. If you head into the woods where the mountain lions are.

[00:17:16] If you are willing to take me skiing again or snowboarding again, I would love to do that. Especially at Plattacill. And then maybe get the attention that I've tried to slap on them five or six times when I've put my business cards all over their area. When I've hiked there three or four times. So Danielle, if you listen to this, get ahold of us. We're a good time. Definitely a good time.

[00:17:40] So Ted, once again, like, like you're, you're, it's really good to have like where the Catskills are prolific on skiing and stuff like that. We have Bel Air, we have Hunter, we have Plattacill, we have Wyndham. All good major resorts located within two and a half hours of a major, one of the biggest cities in the world. So, I mean, like, I got a really quick answer. What is your, like, thoughts on Bel Air? What are their, you know, like their runs, their stuff like that, their snow?

[00:18:09] What do you think about them? So Bel Air in terms of ski areas is an anomaly because it's a state-owned ski area. They do not need to make a profit. There's no bank lending them money that's going to shut them down or fail to give them a loan for the next year if they don't make money this year. So a lot of your ski areas or operators are faced with the dilemma.

[00:18:35] Do they blow snow this week and just have it melt next week? And that eats into their profit margin and maybe puts them into the red. Bel Air doesn't really have to think that way. They don't have to think about getting a line of credit renewed. They don't have a lot of the worries, the day-to-day worries that your privately owned or corporately owned ski area would have.

[00:18:58] So other than dealing with the bureaucracy of the state, it's a much easier place to operate because you don't have to worry as much about the bottom line. I'm sure that they like it when the ski area makes a profit on the one hand.

[00:19:16] But in my opinion, the reason it is the only ski area that has a gondola in the Catskills is because it's owned by the state. And they didn't have to go out and borrow money from a bank to put the gondola in. What do you mean? I thought Hunter and Catskills, what do you mean a gondola compared to what else?

[00:19:42] The gondola is that enclosed capsule that you hop in and it takes you up the hill so you're not exposed to any of the elements. You're in that little cab going uphill. Yeah, the rest of the ski areas just have chairlifts where you sit on a chair. The wind's blowing. If it's raining, you're getting wet with the rain or wet snow, yada, yada, yada. You hop in the gondola, it's a nice cushy ride to the top.

[00:20:09] On the chairlift, you're up some places above the tree line getting to the top of the mountain. So it's not as posh-y as the gondola, but there's really no justification in the Catskills, in my opinion, to have a gondola. So that's just one example. And the other is, if you and I right now were operating Platykill, Wyndham, Hunter Mountain, and here we are at about mid-March, the snow is starting to melt every day.

[00:20:37] We need to decide when it is we're going to shut down for the season. We're obviously not going to blow any more snow. We're going to start laying off people. We're going to be cutting back on our budget. But the one thing we can't cut back, the one expense that we're going to have right up until the last day we're open, is liability insurance. So we want to figure out when is the best day to shut down because the biggest expense at the end of the season

[00:21:04] is day-to-day paying for that liability insurance. So it's an issue for all these other ski areas. State-run ski area, they don't have liability insurance, right? They have the state of New York behind them. So that's a huge expense they don't have to deal with. They don't have the interest on loans that private areas have. They don't have the insurance requirements that other areas have. And if they go into the red two, three years in a row, the state's still going to keep them open. Wow.

[00:21:35] And when you look back historically, how many ski areas shut down because they had a few bad years in a row and they couldn't get financing to open up that next year? A lot. Yeah. So when you look at a company like Vail Resorts that owns ski areas all around the country now, one of the things that does for them is if in the East Coast, it's a bad snow season

[00:22:02] and they're not making money, arguably in the Rockies, it's a good season. They're getting lots of snow. They're making money. So it's like a diversified portfolio. It averages out for them. So they're better able to sustain a down season here and there. Whereas a place like Platykill, that's it. That's the only ski area they have. They don't have a big corporation backing them. They don't have big bankers backing them.

[00:22:30] It's just those guys running the ski area. And that's why when you go there, it's like going back to 1978. Right. It's authentic. It's been, I don't know. You chat about this. You know, I have no history. You know, I used to go, of course, to over in Stanford on Scotch Valley once in a great while and then do my little snowboarding where I freaking snowboarded down a little bit,

[00:22:59] like maybe 20 feet, and then I fell another 50 feet and such. But, you know, I always thought about going to Platykill, Wyndham, and Hunter and stuff. And then, you know, now that you bring this up now, like if I want to start skiing again, snowboarding again, I'm like, I'm going to choose those like Platykill. I mean, that's closer to me, number one. But, you know, it's more authentic. It's more of that skiing experience, more of that snowboarding experience where you get

[00:23:23] that feel where you're not like you're in the industrial zone or something like that. You're being forced to do this because it's cheaper or something. You feel more alive. You feel more like a skier or a snowboarder than you do your pushed. Ah, I got to go here because there's a freaking gondola that protected me from the aliens. Why the hell are you going skiing? There's snowboarding then. Like what the f- you're facing the goddamn elements anyway. Like that's the whole point of skiing and snowboarding.

[00:23:53] Like that's the whole point of hiking and stuff like that. Because I want to face the elements. I want to be prepared for this. And, you know, I follow this guy. I don't know if you follow him. You probably think you do. The one with the map on Instagram. The map. He skis at Platykill all the time. I think he's like, yeah. And he does a fantastic job of portraying how good Platykill is. And, you know, I look at his stuff and the powder there is always nice and fresh.

[00:24:23] They always have good runs going on available. He's always there. They're always grieving him. There's always a band. It's alive. That's the way I see it. That's how skiing was back in the 70s. Well, one of the things with Platykill is they don't have as much snowmaking capacity as the other areas in the Catskills do. So you're just not going to have as much man-made snow there, which is a good thing when there's a lot of natural snow like this season.

[00:24:51] So this was a season where the local ski areas were destined to make a lot of money because they didn't have to spend a ton of money blowing snow on the hill. And now wait, wait while I tie this into current events. Can you imagine this coming ski season if one of the largest costs of operating a ski area is blowing snow, man-made snow? And one of the largest costs of blowing snow is, guess what?

[00:25:24] Electricity. Ooh, let's not talk about that. Yeah. And what if you have to pay like 25% more for your electricity this coming ski season? Ooh. Let's fucking talk about politics. Come on, man. That's bad. That's bad. All right. Next, next topic. Let's move along. Let's move along. But thank you, Ted.

[00:25:44] Like, once again, you know, I am thankful that you have joined us because, you know, I wouldn't have a perspective on this like you have because you have been a skier, you know, since, like you said, the 1970s. And, you know, it brings a lot of insight on these ski resorts and such. You know, how we can help out, you know, Plattic Hill, Wyndham. I mean, Wyndham and Hunter, whatever. Plattic Hill is a place to go. So if you're a skier, go there, check it out.

[00:26:12] I don't think you'll be disappointed, even though I've never skied there and such. But I've hiked there. It looks fantastic. So go to Plattic Hill. Danielle, if you're listening to this, I'm going to freaking tag you. We're talking about you a lot. So the next topic, this was brought my attention a couple days ago, and I can't believe that I haven't noticed this.

[00:26:35] So a resort on Blackhead Mountain to the east of Blackhead Mountain in the hamlet of Round Top is one step closer to becoming a reality of a small Catskills community, which I wouldn't call community. A resort has been a long tourist destination. So a couple weeks ago, the Cairo Planning Board determined that the project seeks to transform an existing hotel, which is, what is it called again, Tad?

[00:27:05] The Black Mountain Resort? Blackhead Mountain. I think it was the Blackhead Mountain End. Yeah. So once again, they have seeks to transform an existing hotel, restaurant, and golf course into a 66,000 square foot resort. And they spot with 87 cabins and parking for 250 cars. It definitely, so this went through a whole little process that would have any environmental impacts.

[00:27:34] I wouldn't have a negative declaration by the State Environmental Quality Review Act. And the project, which totals 102 acres, mostly residential, is off of Croisnest Road. So anyone besides Tad and me, I mean, I've bushwhacked up through there several times. Very, very awesome, interesting area, especially with the events that we had in 2011 of Hurricane Irene.

[00:28:02] This would be the largest resort ever approved in Cairo. Cairo, Cairo, what do you call it, Ted? Cairo. Cairo, okay, Cairo. Okay, Cairo. This set has dragged for more than a year and sparked a controversy among town residents, some including former owners of the property. Some have supported the proposal, some have not. Of course, we always have that.

[00:28:27] But there is a big group called the Friends of Round Top that plan to then block the project. So let's go a little bit of review of this. So the Location is the former Black Cub Mountain Lodge, which abuts the Catskill State Park and has a residential property in Round Top. It has 102 acres land on three parcels. Currently, the land use is approximately 6% in buildings and roads.

[00:28:57] Now, the applicant proposes that triple the number of development and approximately 70% in total. This site includes so much information out included in the show notes. The redevelopment proposals, almost entirely brand new construction that replace all green space. These are some of the most proposed structures and land use changes. 87 new buildings will be approximately 3,200 square feet in total.

[00:29:24] 91,000 square foot lodge that will be 40 feet tall, known as a spa, dining for 300 people. This sounds like an old Catskill Mountain House kind of thing. 264 guests in total, 25% increase from the original application. 127 lodging units. 90 individual Strachkers. 200 to 300 full-time staff, which is good upon that. 288 parking spots.

[00:29:53] It's an awesome helicopter pad for Blaze that will bring in thousands and thousands of people like they thought they would at Wyndham. Four existing buildings, the former Blackhound Lodge and the Massman's restaurants would be converted into Operation Fertilities, staff housing and staff cafeteria. An on-site stewardage treatment plants, which will discharge local streams, including Nishingo Kale, which feeds into the only drinking water for Cairo.

[00:30:20] And we all know what that went with the recent changes in legislature. 11.5 acres of forests will be cut down, according to the New York Department of Environmental Conservation. 3.1 acres of water storage were engineered into existing ponds and streams. Tennis courts, walking trails, and destination restaurant, destination bar, pools, and other amenities will be generated.

[00:30:46] I will post, of course, in the show notes what this website is. It says that the Sixth Sense as part of the Intercontinental Group, the PLC, will ultimately be the brand that is endorsing this property. And it looks like it is an extensive thing. This Save Round Top site seems to be very, very aggressive on Save Round Top.

[00:31:14] And, you know, being a person that has hiked over this area, I mean, I would say two years ago, I hiked over here from the Shingle Kill down from Arizona Mountain. Seeing people golf there, and then all of a sudden hearing that people weren't golfing there anymore was pretty crazy to me because I was just like, when the hell did this shut down? And then all of a sudden I see this, and then I'm just like, oh, wow.

[00:31:42] So there's a massive reserve that's wanting to be built here. And they just approved this over in Wyndham in the area as well. So it's sort of happening, I guess. Can we say that? Well, it's made it one step further in the approval process. That doesn't mean anybody's lent them the money to build it. True, true. True. So what are your thoughts about this?

[00:32:06] Like, this is, I mean, this is a former 18-hole golf club kind of like small lodge area that had old since the 60s and 70s brought on. And then now, like, it's being renovated into, it looks like they're taking out the existing golf course and putting in lodges and resorts and condominiums and stuff like that to make into this big, huge resort.

[00:32:35] And, you know, I mean, as we saw in the past, Ted, with, I always forget with Catskills Resort or Resort, whatever it used to be, that's not successful. It wasn't a good idea. And what was that place outside of Middleburg or Middletown or something like that, that resorts Catskills or the casino? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's outside of Monticello.

[00:33:04] Monticello, Monticello. Yeah. It's struggling. It's struggling like crazy. And then we have proposals like this where it's like- So here, let me ask you if you're aware of this approval.

[00:33:16] The state of New York has given the green light for a $400 million project to develop two hotels, 259 lodging units, a conference center, spa, organic golf course upon land adjacent to the Bel Air Mountain Ski Center. For real? Yeah. That they, two hotels, 259 lodging units, ski in, ski out, right?

[00:33:47] Total number of developed acres is 273 acres, yana, yana, yana. It's just the west, the west of Bel Air, correct? Well, I'm going to say it's more to the north, I guess the northwest, but this was approved in 2007. It's never been built. Hmm.

[00:34:11] It was controversial at the time for its size, the area that it was going into, yada, yada, yada, right? Big project back then, 400 million. You know, that's got to be like 750 million now, right? Right. Never got built. So these people over, what is it, in Round Top, they, you know, they have that project. Let's see if it even gets built. They have these approvals. Now once it, I mean, well, this is just a secret neg deck.

[00:34:40] After they get the secret neg deck, then secret refers to the State Environmental Quality Review Act. And so the planning board gave this negative declaration saying the plans as designed mitigate any serious or substantial environmental adverse impact. So they've kind of harmonized the project with the surrounding area, according to the planning board and its consultants. Now they need to get other zoning approvals.

[00:35:08] Then once they get those zoning approvals, then they need to shop the project around and get financing. Really? Yeah. Okay. Who's going to drive all the way? If people wouldn't drive to Bel Air right next to a ski area, right? To go in that project that was approved in 2007. All right. 17, right? Did you say 17? So that was- 2007.

[00:35:34] So maybe the irony is that that project was approved on the heels or on the eve of the financial meltdown in 2007, 2008, right? Maybe this project up in Round Top is the same thing. We're on the verge of some economic collapse.

[00:35:55] I mean, to think about it, you know, we talk about, you know, you talk about that Catskills resort over on the southern side of the Catskills that hasn't been successful. And I don't see that lasting another 10 years. You know, it's like, I don't even know how many stories high. It's got to be at least 40, 50 stories high. I don't think it's that high. Oh, okay. Well, I'm sorry.

[00:36:21] Coming from a place that only has, you know, like eight stories high is a significant thing. I see that as a crazy area. Yeah.

[00:36:31] And with this, the lodge where I've hiked down from Arizona Mountain, Blackhead Mountain, I've bushwhacked down through there, gotten permission from the Blackhead Lodge to be like, hey, can I, you know, bushwhack through this, you know, your ninth green just to get to my parking car? Oh, hell yeah. Do it. Now, you know, hey, can I bushwhack through, you know, your lodges or condominiums?

[00:37:01] Hell no. This is premium stuff. You're not welcomed here. Or, or let's say like, once again, these greens where I've seen, you know, my friends have, have golfed here and you can see an amazing view of Blackhead Mountain or Arizona Mountain from one of the greens or one of the tees that just offers like a phenomenal aspect.

[00:37:25] But, you know, you kind of think are, are these, I think of, I keep re bringing myself back to the Borscht Belt era. Are, are these areas struggling and are they looking for like the big business people to come in and take over and be like, you know, drop their shit? Yes and no to that. But right.

[00:37:49] While you were talking about that, I pulled up an article that says that revenue at the Resorts World Casino outside of Monticello last year was down 21%. Damn. When did they build? Like. It opened in 2018.

[00:38:10] Then, then of course, 2020 came and nobody from March onward about this time, you know, early March, 2020 is when the world shut down for a while. So, but that project, that project Resorts World, this article kind of summarizes all of the tax breaks.

[00:38:29] It got to be built from, you know, IDA exemption sales tax, a $35 million sales and use tax exemption, a 16 year payment in lieu of taxes agreement. So it's real property taxes would be less. It just goes on and on. So is this all through New York state?

[00:38:53] No, it actually says that revenue was up statewide for casinos, but in Sullivan County, it was down 21% at Resorts World. So with that, you talk about like the, the, the millions of dollars that was, you know, uh, saved and stuff like that. Would that, could that be put back in our trails for new trailhead signed or kiosk? No, no, no. Okay. Okay. Any, any, any, any access money is supposed to go to me.

[00:39:21] I have a, I have a side, I have a side deal with Resorts World. So we have a side deal with New York state probably, you know? Yeah. And with the state of New York. So the talking with Russia and, and Horn, they were just like, yeah, yeah. I give this guy all the money. Yeah. But you read, there's just a ton of articles that if you want to drive, dive down this rabbit hole, you know? Um, it's, it's your opinion. I don't think this is gonna, this is gonna happen. Of course, you know, it's, it's tough.

[00:39:50] They might sell it and then the project might kind of go as planned and then be like, you know what? This is not going to make it in revenue and we're just going to shut it down. So, so, so if you lived in Brooklyn, uh, with your wife and let's say you had two or three kids and you wanted to bring them up to the Catskills.

[00:40:11] So this wouldn't be a bad place to take them to this proposed, you know, rustic cabin, the outdoorsy, you know, project. And, and that light, it's not a bad project to build something like that for people. But, but I think the, the core of the problem is we're all familiar with that area. What do you do when you get there? Right.

[00:40:37] To a certain extent, anything that's within the boundaries inside the envelope of that project is pretty much the same anywhere else. You know, you're going to have spa, swimming pool, golf course, all that stuff is the same. So it doesn't distinguish it from other places. What would distinguish it from other places is being next to Bel Air, right?

[00:40:57] Or being more in the heart of the Catskills where you can, you know, go to the, uh, reservoirs where you can go fly fishing, where, um, you can go tubing down the esopus, where there's a lot of other activities. Keyed into the Catskill experience that you can enjoy than just going to some resort in, you know, the Northern part of the Catskills. It's, you know, looks like anyone, any other place from the inside. So I don't know.

[00:41:26] I, I, I'll, I'll bet you a six pack of hard cider to a six pack of, of stout beer that it doesn't get built. Hard cider has happened in four packs. A four pack of hard cider to a four pack of stouts. Okay. Winner take all, all four. Same. You know what? You know, I'm not going to challenge you. I, you know, this is, uh, uh, I could admit a huge project and, you know, I wonder, we talked about this.

[00:41:56] I don't know how many episodes about Wyndham and I, I know they're, they're developing that, uh, of course, as well. But, you know, Wyndham, of course, uh, is a little bit different than a whole starter project than this. Just, well, first of all, Wyndham's got the ski area and they allegedly are going to limit skier count. So if you spend the extra money to go to Wyndham, arguably you're going to deal with fewer crowds, which means less waiting in line to go up the hill.

[00:42:23] Well, uh, fewer people to deal with skiing down the hill and less skiing traffic generally means better ski conditions for you. So you're going to pay a little bit more, but arguably have a better experience. But this place where it is, you're, you know, half an hour to an hour and a half from where you want to be in the Catskills when you're there. I don't think that's good. Yeah. Something's happening on that side of the escarpment. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I agree.

[00:42:53] Although I, I'll take that back. There are some pretty killer hikes up that part of like, you know, what is it? What is it? Cataskill Falls? Going up through Jimmy Dolan's, that trail. No. I mean, that's, that's not the escarpment. No, no. A Dutchers notch. Yes. What the hell? I'm going to do this open right now. I need to.

[00:43:23] Are you, do you have one? Yeah. We, we go into the, the, that part of the show. No, we're going to still do the, the next topic, but. Okay. Just cracking this open. All right. I'm going to try. Do you hear it? Loud and clear. Loud and clear. All right. So, Tad, you got a under K like reserved for something? Not after this week's stock market performance, but that's okay.

[00:43:52] Been in for the last two, three weeks. So no 800 K reserved for a wild, uh, wildlife mountain refuge. No, that's not in the, that's not in the family budget yet. Same. So unfortunately, well, crazy that, well, fortunately there is a Adirondack wildlife refuge now listed for sale closed and now listed for sale. So for $800,000, uh, there is a visitor attractive and forter rehabilitation

[00:44:21] facility in the town of Wilmington and has for sale and close to the public as of January 1st marks at the end in the era for brought thousands and thousands of visitors annually to the Northeast and right around the externally peaked. And the center that of course has struggled to remain open after authorities honed in on it for years of wildlife. So approximately 48, seven acres of refuge, including a welcome center,

[00:44:47] a rehabilitation center, a storage barn and two glamping cottages are for sale listed by the Adirondack premier properties for $799,000. The listing does not include the addition home of Stephen and Wendon Hall, who ran the refuge since 2000. Uh, Stephen Hall, who lost his wife to cancer in 2022 said that at 77, he is ready to try her. I do not blame him at 77 fricking years old.

[00:45:15] I'm ready to retire at 42 years old. So do not blame him. Uh, he will continue living in their home adjacent to the refuge in the compound. And he had hoped that as one of his four children might take over the refuge, but they have chosen different paths. Uh, with this area that visitors could walk through the woods, uh, and trails of the property view captive bears, wolves, bog calves, and birds of prey. Some animals were too injured to be released and then become, uh, as you can sell ambassadors.

[00:45:42] Other animals were also under the rehabilitation of the care of the halls, eventually released into the wild when they could. The halls who often made wildlife, uh, presentations to schools, churches, camps, and other organizations who inspired the next generations. But around 2014, 2015, the halls became embroiled in a state and federal wildlife violations being to refuge, uh, to undergo a string of transformations.

[00:46:10] Now, unfortunately, this brawl gun on violations range in the scope of lying to investigators about a bear escape. The demise of a bald eagle and the disappearance of bobcat to paperwork permitting issues for their migratory birds. And around the same time, a nonprofit organization created help to find the refuge among the split from the halls. So the DEC and the U S fish and wildlife service required the halls to find new homes for most of

[00:46:37] their birds and animals, uh, and authorities to kind of permit the other employees at the refuge after records show they too were involved in some of the violations. This strings a whole bunch of stuff together saying that he warned the DEC the risk of relocating the animals in an email saying that he told the explorer, the Adirondack mountain explorer, that these critters were bonded to me. And he said, this didn't survive beyond the separation.

[00:47:06] The refuge oldest wolf died about three years ago. And the two other wolves were transported to a rescue organization in New Mexico. They slowed once again, uh, once the bears and the wolves were gone. Next, that's the main attraction. Of course, everybody loves bears and wolves. It says that new falls, Newton falls, coupled Kevin and Jackie Woodcock constructed many of the buildings and animals of closure on the refuge unsuccessfully tried to reestablish it.

[00:47:32] Uh, the DEC refused their approval and the Woodcock, uh, applications for the wildlife rehabilitation center, citing their commute and experience in other issues. The Woodcocks were traveling 80 miles one way to attend this village facility. The hall said they were welcome to stay at the cabins on any site. Uh, Wendy hall was diagnosed with cancer and died in early 2022. Despite a few of the trying years at the refuge, Wendy hall was well regarded as the real

[00:47:58] debilitating in the world said that she nursed back to health and tried many countless times, uh, even though being diagnosed with cancer, uh, he attempted to reinvent his facility as a livestock clamping educational institution, but he was unsuccessful. So once again, if you have 800 K let's put this all together and let's come together and let's get this wildlife refuge going. Wow.

[00:48:27] This is a, this is a, once I like one of those topics that was just amazing. Once again, for since whenever they, they were developed back in the eighties until now, where they're being told to shut down because they've been too many violations of what's up to help out. So sucks.

[00:48:50] Anything that, well, it sounds like, um, the buyers probably going to get some land to convert into, you know, uh, uh, one of these cabin sites, just like what we just talked about, you know, clamping cabins, whatnot. A lot of regulations these days make it hard to run a facility like the halls had. And you may or may not remember the Catskill game farm. Remember that stosh?

[00:49:20] I do. Right. Yeah. So, so that's sort of what this thing seems somewhat similar to when the Catskill game farm has been closed for quite a long time. Oh yeah. It's been over 20 years. Yeah. And I, I see somebody, you know, would try to buy it last year and converted it into housing lots. I don't know what type of track traction that project made, but I don't, I don't think it made any traction at all. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:49:49] So you think with social media that, you know, something like the Catskill game farms, people would be like, uh, have that. And then that inspiration would be like, oh, I want to revisit it again. But it just, you know, yeah, the nostalgia of going to revisit again, but it's, it's nothing like what it was. No. Well, it's all, all run down and, you know, been abandoned for decades.

[00:50:15] I remember reading, uh, somewhere a while back where you could pay a fee and go in there with a bunch of like photographers and take photos of all the abandoned buildings and, you know. It'll be like one of those crazy goofy, not goofy, but like, like, I don't know how to say it. Like, uh, ghostly stuff abandoned.

[00:50:46] It's almost like, but with all the animals and whatnot, that's been, you know, there over the years, I'm surprised if you went and you didn't catch some weird disease, you know, some funky virus or fungus, whatever. So it's not like cup of tea. Let's move on. Let's move on. Everybody's like, even Tom, who's is, is like, you know, check. He's probably listening to disco music from the seventies. I don't know. I'm, I don't know. I'm, I'm intrigued. Uh, once again, it helps.

[00:51:12] We have wildlife refuges here in the Catskills. We have, uh, I've donated friends of the feather and the fury. Uh, they, they help help out and, of course, we go through the legal process. You know, I, I guarantee even going through getting an LLC process here in the state of New York is an absolute bitch to do. So come on, you, you can do it online. Open up an LLC.

[00:51:38] You can do it online, but there are so many different, like, if you have not even, I wouldn't say a typo, but like some word that is wrong and stuff. They'll be like, sorry, you got to redo this. And they won't tell you how. They'll just be like, you got to redo this. And it's, it's, it's insane. I couldn't only imagine what happens to go through a wildlife refuge where it helps animals go back into the wild or helps animals live their lives.

[00:52:06] And though there's some putting them down and freaking killing them, you know, it's just, it's crazy. So, you know, if you have 800 K let us know, donate to the show and we'll, uh, we'll put it towards the Adirondack wildlife refuge and we'll rename it. Yeah. Next week. That's where we're broadcasting from. Yeah. Right. Wildlife refuge. We can no longer be known as inside the line. So inside the refuge.

[00:52:35] Is that inside, is that inside the Adirondack line though? Oh, I don't know. We'll just, we'll be inside the refuge. Take refuge podcast. Yeah. So good, uh, time shooting the shit, Ted. Thank you for your, your amazing information on the skiing. That's just, uh, it's been a, such a great year for skiing and, and winter and stuff like that. So it's been a while since we could talk about prolific skiing here in the Catskills.

[00:53:02] It's, yeah, I think it's been 15 weeks in a row for me wearing snowshoes or hiking on snow. So it's been a good winter. When can you say the last time you've done that is? Not even, no, you didn't pass 15 years. Well, the first, well, the first year I was winter hiking in the Catskills. I seem to remember snow and or snowshoes every hike. How long ago was that?

[00:53:28] Uh, I'm two, I think it was at the winter of 2017, 18, maybe. Yeah. Wow. Just amazing. Amazing. So you were a toddler back then. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I just finished my 3500 back then. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was working my way through it. Oh, oh, gun. Two words for you as in D-Generator Dex. Suck it. All right.

[00:53:55] So thank you to the monthly supporters, Chris Herbie and Jeff Trotz, Vicky Ferrer, Mikey S, John Comiskey, Summit Seekers, Desert City Radio, Betsy A, Denise W, Tom H, and Vanessa. Thank you guys so much for supporting their show. Really appreciate it. Once again, if you support the show, not only does it go back in the show, but it goes back in the Catskills and we'll put it back, uh, back into a donation in the Catskills. So, and then we have our awesome monthly sponsors.

[00:54:21] So capture your love story against breathtaking backdrops with Outdoor Chronicles Photography. Molly specializes in adventure couple photography and she'll immortalize your moments amidst the stunning landscapes of the Catskills, Adirondack, and White Mountains. She'll craft timeless images that reflect unique bond in nature's grandeur. Embark on unforgettable photographic journey with Outdoor Chronicles Photography. Don't hesitate to get a hold of Molly on all platforms.

[00:54:51] Also, if you want to discover the wilderness, you should do it with Trailbound Project. Our expert-led hiking and backpacking education programs offer unparalleled outdoor experiences. Whether you're a beginner or seasoned adventurer, join us to learn our essential skills, explore stunning trails, and connect with nature. Start your journey today with Trailbound Project and unlock the great wonders of the outdoors.

[00:55:14] They have a lot of stuff going on from WFA to snowshoeing trips and different seasonal adventures. So, check them out. Also, Molly, I just want to say, did an awesome photo shoot up on the White Mountains. And it was just absolutely amazing. So, check them both out. They have done amazing stuff. So, mention the podcast of Wonder Your Hike through social media and we'll chat about it on the show.

[00:55:42] You can tag us by typing at the big A with a question mark around it, whatever it is. ITL Catskill Podcast on your post. And we'll chat about it on the show and we'll talk about it soon. So, I want to give a big shout out to one of our biggest listeners, Lisa Morales. Lisa Morales. She unfortunately suffered an injury and she's not on the trails, but she's listening to the podcast.

[00:56:10] So, Lisa, please get better soon and we'll see you out on the trails. Hopefully, let us know. Ted and I, there's an ambulance going by. I don't know if you can freaking hear that or see that, Ted. Maybe it was Lisa getting her ride to the hospital. It was probably Lisa getting her ride to the hospital. Oh, that's horrible. Poor Lisa. I apologize already. What happened to her? Was it like a hiking thing or something else?

[00:56:36] I don't know if it's embarrassing, but apparently she went out to clean her car off and she fell and kind of braced herself and she hurt her wrist. Oh. Oh. It happens all the time. You know, I hear more of the people getting hurt outside their house than out in the trails. Yeah. Yes. Statistically, that's where you are more often is around your house than elsewhere. Correct. Kind of the hub of your activity is around the house. Yeah.

[00:57:03] So Lisa, hopefully he gets better soon and you get back on the trails. Let me know when you get back on the trails. I'd love to join you. And Ted will join you too. I will force him to join you. Yeah. But not to hike up. What's the name of that mountain? Overlook. I'm not doing Overlook with you and Lisa. Oh, God. Not going to happen. Man, everybody has been saying that. Be like, I can't believe you have been at Overlook. You know, it's going to be some prime sunset time now that we have a little extended time.

[00:57:32] And I could actually meet you there. It would be actually a good prime sunset time with no people there. So, so also pink pokey, 818 Tracy, uh, rankin has, uh, once again, taking her friend and up, uh, to South brace brace and islander mountain from quarry hill trail. and back down island brander islander mountain so we talked about this uh last week with uh

[00:58:00] mike so that was i wonder if that was an inspiration she did she said uh spikes on and off and uh like i mean like we had all i mean i did i mean i had spikes on all uh she said a bushwhack to vetch of boys in serious ice to avoid getting their feet wet to thin ice water was definitely raging in the area only one human was seen in the 8.3 miles

[00:58:26] uh and she considers that a person perfect day of course she had her post-hike chai at irving farm she loves her tie yeah yeah i i previously would joke about it but now i've learned to respect it so why is that no no dis well i don't know i think it's it's an interesting drink it's not your basic

[00:58:52] tea it's got more it's more body more of a bold flavor than uh just a regular tea so do they have this at stewart's no no it's stewart's you have your choice of 10 40 weight motor oil or or day-old coffee and or hot chocolate yeah or really really greasy pizza i actually the other

[00:59:16] day i was intrigued i saw some guy walk over to the uh chili and like soup station and start ladling something into one of those uh paper bowls and i've never seen anybody do that i thought it was very brave it's like going to the dark side of the moon yeah he lifted like open the top i was expecting something to jump out at him but uh he was very content nice salivating as he did his thing so once

[00:59:41] again tracy thank you for uh tagging the show also joanne was previously on the show beyond blazes on instagram did the six and she did drop her bags at table uh to tag table mountain so one of those crazy adventurers of course to drop their bags and then to tag table without any resources available you could have died a mountain lion could have killed you uh in the middle of that so just to let

[01:00:10] you know so tats just like i agree i agree 100 yeah that's a look i think the six is a great hike for me it's like the perfect length doing the nine is a little bit too long for me but uh i could do this about the eight time the eight the seven i don't you know i don't know there's something about the last couple miles on the nine unless you have like a car spot at the slide mountain parking area and

[01:00:36] you don't have to hike all the way back to denning then it's not so bad i gotta admit anything anything over 15 16 16 miles is definitely pushing it for me my my aging joints don't do well in the teens wow we're getting old no i am old i'm not i'm not in the getting phase i'm at the old phase i've already

[01:00:59] crossed the threshold of old ageness yeah but i gotta admit you know you you summit it it doesn't go from either side you some wittenberg or peekamoose and you have that long like hike down yeah it's just yeah endless and you i mean i'm peekamoose is more forgiving than than than wittenberg uh and but

[01:01:28] yeah but it's it's but coming off of peekamoose just takes forever it does it it's a nice hike but it just takes for freaking ever wittenberg has you know of course that challenging area within the first quarter of a mile but then once again you hit the terrence lean to and then it's forever and you hit some flat spots you're like oh i can gain some ground and then once again you have some downward

[01:01:52] stuff and it's just like god damn when the hell is this going to end and that's a problem but it's so it's it's so good so nice sometimes yeah well yeah once again i agree with you these neat don't don't agree with that i did i did the nine one once and it was enough for me right so when one time is good now yeah yeah it was a fun we had a good crew we had a lot of fun sure everybody remembers that hike

[01:02:22] and so joanne thank you for joining us last episode on the native american heritage sites that was fantastic episode yeah it was fun and of course who else would be out with tom from who's outdoors who's outdoors you know i thought you were gonna be going with him this weekend yeah um yeah and then

[01:02:43] plans plans changed um we didn't hook up but yeah he he wanted to do uh friday balsam cap and rocky and that's a hike i'm always up for so and points beyond i mean you know if you want to go from there and alone table was you know the the six the six is always fun yeah if you have multiple cars that's

[01:03:11] even better yeah or you or you can be like who you met up with um death by nettles and oh yeah i'll talk about that later hold on talk about that later so tom was at wyndham and he did a wyndham high peak uh and it looks like uh and it looks like he had a great time beautiful views you know that view from wyndham high peak over to the blackheads is iconic i'm like i hate to say this i'm gonna break dc rules

[01:03:41] and say iconic as fuck the the level of those conifers just showing the black is just i i don't know there's nothing else like that can i say in the world that just has that little line that perfect line i don't know what elevation it's at i'm pretty sure it's probably like 36 maybe

[01:04:06] 3700 feet that has a prolific line of the conifers oh it's it's lower than that is it oh yeah 36 3700 sure yeah it doesn't feel like that that's it's lower than that because like it's it's still i mean blackhead a black dome is 30 blackhead is 39 black dome and thomas cole is around 38 39

[01:04:36] so it's it's not it's not ted is looking up he is like screwing you i'm proving you wrong yeah yeah i'm like that that person in the group i'm going with kudish's notes yeah i'm calling mike right now yeah mike how you doing yeah we're talking about the conifers on the the blacks yeah how are you getting hold of me this late yeah i'm sleeping leave me alone remember that time that yeah so

[01:05:04] start mapping that's okay we'll go let's go to something else let's move on it's not changing next time you're over there take take note of where the take the lights of those starts how can you not uh okay yeah so once again that uh that area tom that was exploring good for you uh it ripped it up and it looked beautiful of course you you can't i gotta admit you can't get a better view i mean hunter shows

[01:05:33] one of that that prolific view of the blackheads that has the white versus the black area and uh it's just a phenomenal you know ted i i think you mean you might be wrong i think it's 30 3500 and above so that's that's 400 feet you might be right all right all right all right yeah that's i just want a four pack of stout all right stout six pack of stout

[01:05:59] i know i thought we were doing all right you want to buy a six because i get four packs of hard ciders and you do six packs of stout right yeah is that how it goes so we'll check it out and we'll we'll confirm this on the next episode yeah we'll get our research staff on this so thank you once again uh lisa get better soon tracy thanks for tagging us joanne and tom thanks for tagging us

[01:06:26] tag us on the show once again itl catskills podcast on facebook and instagram we'll we'll definitely chat about you and how awesome you are we should have a drawing but if you tag us we put your name in the hat every now and then we'll pull a name out of the hat and you'll win something like a high five or something no we'll come up with something better than that like a tesla like a black tesla extended range slightly used when you gotta bring that up

[01:06:55] all right so also buy us a hard site to support the show support the catskills as well uh once again anything that doesn't go to the show goes back towards the catskills and uh you know you're supporting the catskills so also rate the show joanne recently said that she rated this show so thank you joanne really appreciate it you can go on apple podcast or spotify or something and give us five stars that's

[01:07:21] what only we accept i i i think so tad i already cracked open what i had so i'm going to talk about it you know this is for todd bold my friend we all we love our hard cider so 1911 uh sour raspberry hard cider absolutely phenomenal i enjoy it and and then 1911 is that the treat a can brand yes yeah okay

[01:07:48] i definitely it says it's uh uh 6.9 ooh that's a little that's a little high oh he's cracking it i'm ready to crack everybody pull over stop your car stop what you're doing oh sweet yeah so we have tonight we have a mountain line is that a mountain life

[01:08:13] a mountain life yeah a hazy pale ale mountain life from west kill brewing i picked this up um when i was in the catskills last it is tasty tasty it's a he's hazy pale ale so so west kill

[01:08:36] mountain life yeah it's it's nice is that new uh i don't know if it's a new flavor for them it's a new flavor for me and it's nice it's it's not like overly done with floral fruity hoppy stuff it's just got a nice balance to it if you will so nice coming from ted that's that's pretty good so you know what i

[01:09:03] was thinking is we should pick a day um like a sunday or a saturday or just some weekend coming up in april and all of our listeners should plan that weekend day to after their hike go over to west kill to drink right we'll have like an informal gathering there and everybody needs to mention the podcast when they're ordering oh i came here because of stosh i came here because of tat inside the line because they

[01:09:32] don't they don't give us any recognition let's just douse them right in recognition yeah i've uh i know it sounds bad but i've tried to get a hold of them several times to get an interview and uh unfortunately haven't been successful it's been 15 16 times i hate to say and if they don't then we're just going to move over to the woodstock brewery yeah i mean uh no i've already already had him uh

[01:10:01] not the woodstock brewing uh catskill okay let's go brewery uh what's his name from uh the catskill mountain club yeah in livingston manor yeah yeah they you know he is uh a big i think he's a president the catskill mountain club oh paul well that's a nice establishment over there it's a little off the beaten path for it is catskill hikers but when you're when you're out hiking uh balsam lake

[01:10:29] mountain and if you came up from jersey new york city long island it's a good place to go after your hike and i'm pretty sure they do like a lot of stuff around the catskills of course you know um julie is a big catskill brewery kind of person yeah she likes their um devil's path ipa yes she she'll pound one down and then somehow freaking ski down the the thing drunk so well i wouldn't say

[01:10:57] she's drunk but somehow she skis down you know you cannot tell me that in like five minutes you finish one of these things and you're not wasted she doesn't sit up there for 35 40 minutes to finish this and then and then ski down i don't think one drinking one beer would necessarily it gets you buzzy really huh i don't know this is i mean this is this is my sixth sixth one since i can't even talk

[01:11:25] it's i've had six of these so far tonight yeah yeah see we're making this entertaining so so uh what about previous hikes ted do you want me to go first you want to go first like what do you want to do why don't you go first because then you can chew up all the time and then i can just blitz through mine oh yeah after yours because mine was somewhat ho-hum yeah so this uh sunday i went up

[01:11:53] twin mountain crossed it off another of my winter list uh you know i knew from previous reports on the casco trail conditions every other place on facebook and stuff like that people were using mostly their spikes it was a hard pack trail so uh once going up priger road i i went up from did i go yeah i went

[01:12:17] up from pressure road and there was one part where i was driving and there's that little torn turn uh when you go into the like the circle part uh i turned and my car slid probably a good three feet and i had like a big panic attack that's like oh and then it gripped and i was like oh i do have snow tires in that thing so there was probably like six cars in the parking area so i was like okay there's a good amount of

[01:12:47] people going up here i did not see one person until i got up probably around like a quarter of a mile away from the trail direction which i i threw on spikes right away uh hill sounds right away because it was ice in the tread in the parking lot and then from the trail head on it was just nothing but ice and kind of like grippy snow it was it was actually more of that that favorable grippy snow it kind of like

[01:13:15] i would say melted and then settled to more of like i kind of called like the astroturf where you can grip really good and go so i like flew up and i forgot how how nice that jimmy doll and nosh is you get flying and then you get to one part where it just starts gaining pretty good pretty instantly and uh

[01:13:40] i didn't hit any significant ice uh at all throughout the whole like i gotta admit there was only one area where you saw that kind of like i would say clear ice is that what you call it right yeah we can call it ice yeah it's it's clear ice there was more like the the the snow ice compared to like the the cascading clear ice it was just the frozen river yes frozen reserve there was

[01:14:09] very many spots because of the previous rainstorms that you could see the flow of water coming through the snow which was absolutely insane i was just like oh wow there was water coming through here from that lake i heard they got like like uh an inch and a half or something like that and and you know i was cautious i i didn't i didn't bring you know i had shame on me i didn't bring my stow shoes with me

[01:14:36] but you know i knew through all these reports that it wouldn't be needed there was no opportunities of like post-toeing and stuff that you know i just it just wasn't needed and such um you know so i once i got to part of uh the jimmy dolan where i started gaining uh it was it's pretty nice ongoing a pretty

[01:15:00] constant gain uh grip was absolutely phenomenal the hill sounds were just gripping so much it was such a good day uh very little wind uh i hit the junction you know i was like eh i won't go to the notch yet i'm gonna uh summit uh south or east twin and i'll go over to the to the west twin and someone and uh i

[01:15:26] passed this one guy who kind of gave me he had i had snowshoes on his backpack i don't know if he was having a tough time or i wasn't packing my snowshoes he gave me a dirty look and he was just like hey and i flew past him i don't know is it because i was faster or because i wasn't packing my snowshoes you know whatever um very little spots of where i had to think about you know is this like uh

[01:15:56] an area where i would like suffer an injury on you know the one thing i do think about a lot is my poles is like this pole is not going to dig into this so i'm not going to rely on the poles i'm going to rely on something like a tree to pull myself up or you know a root or something like that you know a lot of people rely on their poles a lot for traction and i gotta admit you do not rely on your poles at

[01:16:23] all for any traction whatsoever because i've i've found out in the previous years that poles are just no worth traction at all that that putting them in it's not like an ice axe and you will pull yourself up no way at all so find yourself a tree somewhat like that uh i was going up uh i got up to like

[01:16:48] 3 500 feet and a little bit more ice but it's still nice and grippy and stuff could fly up uh beautiful clear skies at that time and i i once again i i hit the the summit of of east twin i was just like holy shit i'm here you know i kind of forgot how quickly from the jimmy dola notch that you summit twin and it's pretty quick like i i thought it was a little bit more aggressive than

[01:17:13] that but it wasn't and uh maybe i'm thinking of more of west twin and then sugarloaf that it's just absolutely astronomical and uh i had a beautiful view of the burroughs range and i was just i was i seriously i i don't know tad if you've ever seen this and i i i mean people my age there's this one video that goes around of a hardcore metal band playing at denny's that says what the is up denny's

[01:17:43] have you ever seen that no i've never seen that stuff and it shouldn't be surprising that i haven't seen it so i will send you that so this is like a little please please do the missus and i'll after the show we'll quickly jump on and check it out as we eat pancakes do we have to eat pancakes when we watch that absolutely okay so we'll get some denny's cakes it's a local metal band that they're starting

[01:18:11] their energy on it's like what the fuck is up denny's what the fuck is up and then everybody gets going crazy so what does this have to do with hiking in the catskills so when i summited twin i was like i was so excited because twin is my favorite mountain the view is just beautiful it's your it's mountain but you've never done it in the winter outrageous i have done it march 22nd okay so march

[01:18:40] 22nd i'll actually show you we did it after those rungs were removed remember the rungs yeah interesting how you know how you did it after the rungs were removed isn't that incredible yeah that's very interesting so when that happened we did it after the rungs removed and we had to jump from that area but anyway so when i summited i said what the fuck is up twin the fuck is up and i got so excited

[01:19:06] and then somebody apparently heard me from west twin so i go over to west twin and there's this little scrawny little guy sitting over there and i'm just scrawny scrawny really oh that's bad no that's yeah he's not scrawny he's watery i'd call him wiry why all right all right wiry i i was just like hey what's going on you know and he's just like you know he's like what's going on my name's zach

[01:19:36] and i'm just like hey what's going on my name's uh he's like wait a minute i know you i'm just like no you don't no you don't he's like you're stosh from the podcast i'm just like no you don't know me my name's tad i'm tad and he's just like obviously yeah you wouldn't pass for me yeah he's just like no you're stosh he's like i know you i'm like hey i'm like what's your he's like i'm

[01:20:00] zach i'm like i know a bunch of zacks he's like death by nose i'm like death by nettles zach oh my god it's just like and we like hugged each other and it was just yeah well no but we need to back up didn't he tag you in his post didn't he tag the show and you're not giving him a shout out i tagged him he tagged me before when you when you went up uh slide yeah but you you didn't mention him tonight

[01:20:27] and you know where oh yes yeah yeah shame no no i he tagged me in like a uh how many 1911s if you had i tonight just take the fifth just if you had more than two just take the fifth and we'll move on this is the first one okay sure so you know he tagged me in a comment all right i don't know if that counts it counts it counts all tagging counts in my book true all right all right so you meet you

[01:20:55] meet zach zach is a cool guy i'm not going to describe zach as scrawny i i'd describe him as uh wiry and athletic and has a way has one of these guys that has a smile from when did you meet him that's zach zach zach we um what time of year we i'm gonna say it was in may so he didn't have layers

[01:21:18] upon layers on he had layers upon layers he actually he actually at one point we were bushwhacking up slide uh davis is out front i'm in the middle and at one point i look behind me and there's um wiry zach with no shirt on we're bushwhacking he took his fucking shirt off bullshit you know no it's true it was it was very funny all right so sorry zach if i have fun

[01:21:47] news sorry uh but you know i meet him there and you know i'm ecstatic we start chatting i started getting a little cold so i i layer up and stuff like that we still chat uh we meet the guy that that judged me before and he takes a single picture and then walks away did he have a snowshoes on then or no no he didn't he didn't he didn't he had on his pack uh there's a woman who summited and then she

[01:22:14] heard us talking we were nice and she walked away of course um so i'm like zach so what's your your what's your plan what do you you know he's like i parked at roaring kill but uh or project and then i'm heading down the roaring kill i'm like how the hell are you gonna pick it back he's like oh i have an e-bike and i'm like well a scooter scooter of course i'm like freaking do you have

[01:22:39] like like winter tires that thing he's like sure do like jesus what i'm like this guy that's a cool concept i mean i do the bike and hike all the time but whether it's an e-bike or an e-scooter that just gives you like a whole new element of versatility and capability to get out there and and do longer

[01:23:01] hikes without doing an out back so kudos to zach to being innovative on that front yeah and i was like you gotta be kidding me and then thinking of just going down from twin that west side of twin is notorious for ice and notorious for just being uh insane and i was just like you know let me know when

[01:23:26] you're you're down from there and uh contact me please because i'm just like i'm always you know being search and rescue i'm worried as as heck and uh he made it out in one piece of course uh because because he's wiry and athletic like oh he's wiry he is he is wiry he was he's great to talk to you you know he's done so much stuff we were looking at older bark uh and stuff like that he's like oh i've

[01:23:52] been up there you know i've been this where i like to look over here and over there i'm just like man we need to get together me you and tad need to just freaking tackle some part of area yeah he does he does some wild hikes man yeah uh i could admit the way down was fast and furious you know i i did the whole hike in under three hours on the way you know on the way up a beautiful use on the way back

[01:24:18] hit snow flurries beautiful 29 30 degrees but it's crazy once you hit sort of sort of elevation it started turning a little mush and the parking lot was a thin sheet of ice when i got there but as i as i left it was it was like mushy snow it was really it was really incredible how the difference is uh within a couple hours that could happen and then after that i went over to meet my my search and

[01:24:47] rescue friends were having a drill over at uh scutt road and uh the wind over there was crazy just uh being in the prider road area there's no wind but being over at scutt road there was so much wind it was so cold it was uh it was astronomical and penis got screwed there's no fights nobody was getting in fights and and and fighting each other over parking spots to see over which could see cataclyle

[01:25:14] falls so stash is referring to my second time ever over there where i uh i i took a i did i split my hike in two parts the first part i headed to the north and up in the mountains and on my way back from there i stopped at my car to just kind of like veg and refuel and while i'm hanging out in my jeep a rather aggressive pushing match broke out in the parking lot right in front of me

[01:25:45] seriously right in front of your freaking car get the hell out of my way yeah literally so it was very interesting not it was not it was conduct unbecoming the hiking community it's all right so are you ready to do some questions about your hike i wrote down some things i want to ask questions no this is the interrogation portion of the recent hikes you got you got new poles right i had straight poles what'd you get what'd you get last when i

[01:26:14] hiked with stosh up caterskill high peak he bent rather radically bent one of his poles so what did you get what'd you replace it with ozark trails walmart poles for nine dollars okay how'd they work they worked pretty well i had uh the the uh i don't know what do you call them on there that you put the the snow snow baskets is that what they're called i've never yeah yeah snow baskets on the bottom so

[01:26:42] they're just fine that was perfect like any other sixty dollar things that i got for nine dollars yeah so are they like three part poles two part adjustable three part okay it's very common yeah it's it's very good so you you related to us how quickly you seem to get up and down twin mountain to me that sounds like this time of year when everything is packed in it's like a sidewalk that you're hiking on a white

[01:27:13] snow ice sidewalk do you think that's why it was just so fast moving beautiful beautiful like you said a sidewalk yeah it was just it was just phenomenal yeah so as long as you have the right traction device on you're going to make good time with that which brings me to my third question post holes you you weren't punching through at all with your foot not at all unless i went probably like

[01:27:38] a foot off yeah of the trail yeah that wasn't my experience um on saturday yeah in part i'm going to say it's because i was not on commonly traveled terrain although i was on trails or road pretty much the whole day but no i i didn't have as firm of a base it was yielding in spots so just for our

[01:28:04] listeners um knowledge and information what how far does your foot have to punch through the snow for you to consider yourself creating a pulse toll oh that's that's a tough one um i would i would say at least six inches six inches yeah my you might be close to me my rule of thumb is is if the top of the snow

[01:28:29] is just under my boot places where my laces go into the sides of my boot through the eyelets that's that's where i consider putting my my snowshoes on ordinarily although i on my hike the second segment of my hike i realized that putting on snowshoes was the better practice so wow yeah but generally if my foot is going in or my boots going in far enough that only my my the arc of my uh

[01:28:57] shoelaces or boot laces are above the snow or or deeper then i'm going to put snowshoes on that's i mean once again it shows the the controversial aspect of going on a well-known trail than a trail that's you know less traveled i mean so i'm going to give you this is my thinking on it

[01:29:21] you said you were faster because the the trail was firm uh unyielding it was like walking on a a concrete sidewalk so you were able to get a good push off of it and when you're able to get when you have that unyielding surface and you get to get a push off of it it's also less fatiguing because you're not using your your lower leg as much to make your forward movement and when your

[01:29:48] snow when your foot starts to punch through the snow right and you no longer have that firm base to push off of and you're it's like every step is becoming more and more irregular i find putting on the snowshoe is less fatiguing now because you're getting a constant base to push off of and you can hike faster because you're getting a better push off with each step and that's what i that's what i did on my middle segment of my hike on saturday as i realized that whether i was

[01:30:18] every third step or at times it was every step was just breaking through the surface enough that i wasn't getting a the the same base to step off of with each step just having that consistency by putting on my snowshoes and being able to really push off of each step it was less fatiguing i made better time yeah it's you know it's once again it's all about who has traveled on the trail and stuff

[01:30:46] like that you know i had five or six people ahead of me that has traveled on the trail i mean there was this day this day you know and of course we had the the rain and the freeze so you know if if well you were you were on it so you were if if you remember well-known trailed yeah so there was

[01:31:08] probably in the the past week more than a dozen yeah people right so my experience on saturday if you want to move to my experience yeah yeah so i'm gonna wrap it up it was awesome i went to picoyd out there i had beautiful views blah blah blah amazing uh clear skies on the way up flurries on the

[01:31:32] way down absolutely phenomenal uh tad let's get on to you what why did you where did you go and why did you go there so so after i think my last 15 weeks or hikes in the catskills were all you know mountains over 3 500 feet i decided to and i i finished a winter single season so i thought

[01:31:57] that this past weekend would be a good opportunity to double back to my all trails catskill list and knock off you know one of the few remaining hikes i have for that and it on the one hand it was going to be an out and back hike um because i didn't want to hike with anybody to bring a second car and it

[01:32:21] was kind of a hard ride to do as a bike and hike so i did vernewe falls um is an out and back and then when i was done with that i hopped in the jeep i drove over to greenville i think it's spencer road and i hiked from there out to the pika moose road and back and then once i got back to that greenville area then i hiked the roads because that's part of the trail as weird as that sounds part of the trails

[01:32:49] on the all trail was is this road um so i hiked that road segment back to where i ended my venery then newy falls like uh how do you say what do you say is it uh very newy i think it's vernewe is that right i always say vernoi vernoi but there's a y on the end no way yes yeah do you think the dutch would have put a y on the end if they didn't intend to pronounce it

[01:33:16] vernoi vernoi vernoi vernoi we're gonna have to do a whole segment on a whole show on catskill pronunciations we're gonna have to get like some dutch guy and clogs to come on yeah go ahead sorry sorry all right so it'd be good so so the first segment i one of the things was interesting about the first segment of this hike was in the uh mispronounced for newy falls area starting from

[01:33:40] upper cherry town road this is really on that area where the catskill mountains are kind of blending into the gunks at least in my opinion so you kind of get some of the gunks vegetation when you start out and then you head west you go out to the falls uh it was basically hiking uh a wide logging road but an older logging road not super wide but it was wide enough that you could hike maybe

[01:34:07] three people wide if you wanted to through a lot of rhododendrons some stream crossings it was very windy on the way out uh all pretty much all snow covered on the way out but very thin snow cover so i just uh early on in the hike i put on my hill sounds no actually i put on my like cheap micro spikes to hike out there and it wasn't yeah i wasn't even carrying my snowshoes because i i knew it was going to be thin cover got to the falls checked out the falls but you packed the uh

[01:34:36] the thicker micro spikes just or the thicker hills on just in case right nope just just a pair of cheap twenty dollar micro spikes and i was confident that they weren't going to fail me because i had recently i did after my last catskill hike i had to do some repair on them replace some busted links so at any rate i got out there checked out the falls looks like there used to be some type of mill out

[01:35:02] there from the ruins i saw then i headed out to this parking lot i wasn't expecting to find a parking lot in the middle of nowhere but it's accessed by these seasonal roads and i turned around went back to the jeep that was about five miles and a modest four or five hundred feet of gain i didn't see anybody until i got back to the parking lot i was like the first one out there that day and then so then so then so then so then i drove back down to like uh what was it kerhonkson or

[01:35:31] something like that on um just in the the valley there and stopped at stewart's fueled up with the stewart's coffee and then i drove out to greenville which is um kind of like you know deep in the catskills and there's a a seasonal use road that takes you out to where this trail is that was started off snow covered i started to go down it on the jeep and then i realized as i kind of came around a corner

[01:36:00] that it got like a steep downhill that was just a sheet of ice going downhill so i thought it would be best not to go down there because at the end of the day when this hike would be over that there would be no sun back there and that would probably be all frozen again and it was all frozen again i wondered if i'd be able to get up right with the jeep so i just backed up i parked along the side of

[01:36:25] the road this time i brought my snowshoes and my hill sounds uh with me and so i got out to where the trail goes through this area and i headed west out to peekamoose road the hike was generally along a wide trail it brought me along what is that um bleacher hill where the fire was

[01:36:49] uh white back no it was well white house road white house or dad but yeah but the um as soon as this thing cues up here it is bangle hill right oh yeah so i went out through the beginning jesus yeah so i went out there through the uh the bangle hill area uh you go through some spruce grobes on the way out uh otherwise you know just a typical catskill hardwood forest i saw somebody's tracks headed in the

[01:37:18] opposite direction but like i said i early on i was wearing my hill sounds to start because that the little seasonal road walk was icy and then i got onto it's part of the long path i got on that um switched over the snowshoes soon because i was just punching through the snow so much that it was just really hard to make good time i put the snowshoes on i really started to motor along

[01:37:43] as i summited the mighty bangle hill which has a peak elevation of 2346 feet yikes yeah then i descended down um like 1200 feet to the picamoose road yeah so it's like uh 1100 feet descent and it's it's fairly steep going down and as you're going down

[01:38:11] to that road and you know the whole way down that you are going to be turning around and immediately going up this road you're like this is the first like major uphill that i had for the day and so it was it was a real uh significant huff and puff but i have to say on the way up i put my um um i took my snowshoes off for the descent and just put on spikes because i think that's faster going downhill and it was icy enough and firm enough that i wasn't punching through and then on the

[01:38:42] turned around and on the way up i just put on my my snowshoes again and use the televators because that takes some of the steepness out of your step and i just cruised right up that got to the summit of the aforementioned bangle hill and uh continued on my way back to the seasonal road i see here it's called spencer road and as i got there the sun was was going down i kind of i cut out

[01:39:11] some of the herbs in that trail by bushwhacking on my way back because it was kind of pointless to stay on the trail i got to spencer road and then i hiked spencer road over i guess it's called popol hill back to the venery kill fall trail and uh then turned around went back to the jeep so i i retraced almost everything that i did that day it was a long day wow which made made for that beautiful sunset

[01:39:40] sunset shot i posted today on instagram on my way home i captured that so for whatever reason i ran out of battery juice on my uh phone and yeah i didn't get all my tracks so i was i was somewhere over 16 miles but because of all the snow it was just really really smooth hiking the whole time i have to say the whole time i was there especially once i i again summited the mighty summit of bangle hill mountain

[01:40:09] um and could see peekamoose and uh van wick i really kind of wished i was over there because those really looked like it would have been a great day to be in the higher mountains of the catskills but i knocked off this these segments of my catskill all trails or all seasonal road challenge and uh that was fun yeah good time nice nice getting out and about jesus christ yeah well when you say that

[01:40:39] nice getting out and about i have to say frankly you know i was struggling with these thoughts of why am i doing this because this a lot of this hiking is ho-hum terrain on the one hand on the other hand i was out hiking and went you know in snow conditions uh it was a beautiful day i was you know there was nobody around there was just one fellow's footprints in the uh trail going in the opposite

[01:41:07] direction from the logbook it looks like he was doing a segment of the long path that day but the his his entries at peekamoose road was on on that same day as mine but on the um the um the other log book down at vernewe falls nobody had been out there for weeks wow yeah so crazy it's like yeah it's like the trail seldom traveled maybe that's that's maybe because it's not like a spectacular trail

[01:41:36] on the one hand um but i will say and i throw this in because we did have the episode with our two ranger friends you could see some evidence of that fire on bangle hill and you know all the trees were in that i saw i didn't go up there and explore because i you know was having a long day but the trees were intact but you could tell that a lot of the low cover was gone just completely gone and you

[01:42:03] would see some um black i'm not going to say it was charring but just some you know evidence of fire at the below two or three feet on the trees that i was going by and you did see some very faint evidence of like i'll call it soot or black flakes on the snow heading down to to peekamoose but for the most the whole day i'm like thinking i'm going to run into like you know significant evidence of

[01:42:33] fire activity as i'm going through there and like i said i went through some spruce groves none of those trees had any damage where i went through and it was very minimal what i saw going down to peekamoose so overall it was you know 16 plus miles of hiking in the catskills on the snow making it my 16th hike

[01:43:01] this winter season on snow in the catskills fantastic sounds good and i don't hike more than really once a week so that's all right all right so now it's back to the mountain life yes easy pale ale good previous hikes we had so awesome stuff so volunteer once again 3500 club catskill trail crew catskill mountains club there's a center jallivey rovers trail crew

[01:43:29] down the island fire tower if you want to volunteer please do it now uh we're getting spring season so volunteering is essential uh blow downs need to be removed and uh you know help is needed and we'll get once again once we get into the spring summer everybody will need volunteer work and help also if you need stickers get a hold of me on uh email or instagram or facebook or get a hold of tad

[01:43:57] gs bar one on instagram and uh we'll get you free stickers so weather forecast i mean today it was crazy it was like 60 degrees here up at oneonta what was it for you i don't know i was i was inside all day i hate to say but uh it was beautiful outside i did notice on my way home a few fellow jeep drivers with

[01:44:23] their top down so that's how warm it was down here so that's pretty significant yeah it's warm enough to drop the top okay so that's i mean i mean this weekend it looks pretty pretty decent friday looks clear high of 43 a low of 36 wind is minimal very five to 25 miles per hour late at night

[01:44:50] saturday it looks to be kind of same a little bit some clouds cloudy but a high of 50 a low of 32 in the morning with a wind chill of uh around 30 degrees so uh wind chill is a little bit uh more of 30 30 degrees sunday looks to be a little bit a little crappier a little bit light rain rain showers uh but a little

[01:45:15] bit higher 52 degrees with a low of 28 degrees late at night but a low during the day of around 43 degrees so it looks to be a pretty decent uh weekend to get out and uh to smash on peaks to finish your winters up uh of course uh how many uh we got two weekends left to finish your winters at 3500 not even no just

[01:45:42] one one full weekend one weekend and then you got 21st which is on friday yeah so if you want to finish your winter rounds get at it spikes i would say spike spike spike snowshoes maybe well it's yeah it's going to be warm enough that you're going to be punching through right somebody you know i saw a

[01:46:03] report today which is tuesday and somebody went up to uh i i think it was uh uh something haze uh went up to friday and balsam capped and used every single sort of uh traction device that they had so uh you know you never know uh we're talking about you know oh uh a couple days from now that that it could

[01:46:28] be david hayes that found shows new snowshoes up on the way to friday today uh and then spikes at the lower uh part and then micro spikes at even lower parts so went through all different traction devices so you never know yeah um you know i i don't do trap uh facebook i don't do catskill trail

[01:46:53] conditions i get my trail intel from instagram so it's usually a good source to check out other people's recent posts uh mo hike on guides has you know usually weekly pictures which are very informative of what the prevailing conditions are but you know expect soft snow and variable conditions and

[01:47:19] thankfully this coming weekend it's the current forecast is not calling for rain a couple days ago they were saying it was going to rain saturday and sunday now i guess it's not forecast too so that's promising yeah so once again don't take us literally check your forecast daily right before up

[01:47:45] in the day your hike yeah check it out check it out the morning of the hike yeah so so how about we get on to the last set of sponsors ted we are one hour and 57 minutes of just us bullshitting we're good bullshitters we're professional bullshitters we are bullshitting we just have like an endless supply of bullshit just imagine us on hikes i really don't want to yeah i don't want to talk to you either

[01:48:12] kind of sounds shitty it's just it's total silence when ted and i hike it's just well it's yeah it's because i'm so far ahead of you and you're back there huffing and puffing jesus christ and i'm younger jesus so uh if you want to discover uh any and anything and everything in the cap skills go to camp catskill and taren's world your ultimate hiking store find top quality gear apparel and accessories

[01:48:39] for all your outdoor hiking adventures our expert staff to hear help every hiker from beginner to see even crows we also carry a variety of unique catskill souvenir and gifts that is on a line at campcatskill.co or in the sort of gear up for your next journey adventure starts at camp catskill also to come discover the beauty of the catskills adirondacks and the hudson valley with scenic route

[01:49:04] guiding our expert guides to ensure a safe unforgettable hiking experience tailored to your skill level from breathtaking visits to hidden gems or if you peek back into just simple day hikes will lead you to the best spots and back book your adventure today and support nature's wonders with scenic route guiding check them out on all social media platforms also if you mention the podcast

[01:49:26] you can get 10 off use the code word mountain lion also you should embark on a transformative journey with another summit another summit is dedicated serving veterans and first responders with free outdoor activities activities like walks in nature paddling hiking or even backpacking and join our support point of the community to enjuvenate and nature and embrace enjoy commodity adventure and healing at no

[01:49:54] cost take your next step with another summit and to next extended new heights and resilience and joy apply today and another summit dot org they have tent building uh tarp shelter building workshop saturday march 22nd at 10 a.m once again go to another summit dot org if you need any uh booking for psychology at march 29th at

[01:50:19] 10 a.m uh mindful walk uh rockefeller center uh rockefeller april 12th at 10 a.m and uh earth walk earth week trail cleanup at april 19th at 9 30 a.m so get a hold of another summit if you want to participate and helping uh outdoors or helping yourself to rejuvenate in nature and embrace so

[01:50:45] all right so once again uh guests of the night will be extended on into april and this was just tad and i shooting the shit for two hours shooting the shit and drinking westkill brewery mountain life hazy pale ale good stuff i can't agree yeah pick it up at local goods so tell them tad sent you from

[01:51:10] the podcast so am i i'm i'm all struck as local yeah but they'll give you if you go in you mention my name they'll give you zero percent off guaranteed all right so have a good night ted uh yeah i hope you enjoyed it and i could have fun hiking this weekend if you're out going out gonna do

[01:51:31] something all right have a good night buddy hey everyone i just want to thank you for listening to the show if you enjoyed the show subscribe and throw down a smooth review on spotify apple podcasts or any podcast platform that you use you can also check daily updates of the podcast hikes hiking news

[01:51:58] and local news on facebook instagram twitter and the official website of the show remember this you gotta just keep on living in the cat skills man wicked wicked wicked good