Episode 158 - Rangers Rusher and Horn Part 2 - Wildfires

[00:00:26] The bushwhacks were some of the worst days I've ever had in the mountains, or life, really. Whereas Pantsy Mountain is totally opposite, it's a mountain on top of a crater. I think the weather challenges on this incident were particularly difficult. It is really the development of New York State. Catskills are responsive.

[00:00:56] Pantsy, Inside The Line, the Catskill Mountains Podcast. Yeah, yeah. So, 158, this is Part 2, Part 2. So we didn't do the shooting the shit earlier on the previous episode because we just went right into it with Rusher and Horn. And I thought the first episode, Part 1, was absolutely fantastic, talking about their SAR missions in the previous year.

[00:01:26] They gave a lot of detail and probably a lot of stuff that people didn't know about. And just, you know, they were all out and they were fun. They were a lot of fun. So we have Part 2 coming tonight about the wildfires. So, what did you think about Part 1? Well, like you said, I thought that you got a perspective and a level of detail that you don't get in the little ranger reports or news reports we find online.

[00:01:53] But what really was striking to me, you know, it became apparent as the podcast progressed is that these guys are like brothers. They are really, really tight. All of them, all the rangers are really tight. And that's because they're put in these really, you know, high intensity situations, at least to us. You know, a rescue like that would be high intensity. We're battling a firefighter, a firefighter would be. But these guys, that's what they do all the time.

[00:02:20] I think they're out doing that stuff more often than we really know about. And they're just, just really, really a tight group and a great group. Yeah. I'm really proud of these guys. Yeah. See them on the trail. Yeah. Give them a hard cider and chug it down with them. Well, I don't know. I don't know if they can drink on the job stash. All right. So big question of the year, beginning of the year. Why do you hike Ted?

[00:02:50] Because artificial intelligence tells me to. Oh, okay. No, I don't know. I hike in large. I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit. I hike more now because I can't do the things that I used to do. So hiking is kind of like the, you know, adaptation of the injuries and aging process. That I've gone through and you can, you know, go out.

[00:03:20] And I guess mentally why I hike now is just to get away from the daily distractions in the, the daily intensity of people texting you, emailing you, pinging you left and right all day long. And you go out for a day in the cat skills or for a long hike elsewhere. And you can totally unplug and regenerate. Hmm. I like that. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:03:49] I started doing the same thing. Actually, you know, to me, it was more about the views. I am a view guy where I just want to get to that viewpoint and just sit there and just all myself and kind of reset myself. Yeah. It's the journey, man. That's the journey to that viewpoint. All these views in the cat skills. I mean, it's not a mountain range in the cat skills that has a, a lot of prominence to it.

[00:04:16] If you will, it's everything is, you know, between that 3,500 and 4,000 foot level, right? It's not like where you go to some other places and there's just a lot more, you know, jaggedness and up and down. So the way the cat skills were formed obviously is influence the views that we see when we get there. I like the hike under the canopy. I like looking at the, the rocks. I mean, you look at the rocks, you see several different histories revealed.

[00:04:45] You see the history of the great Catskill Delta. And then you see the history of the, the glacier, the ice sheets coming through. Um, and then the, what the melt water did all of that. Very fascinating. Yeah. But I still, I still do it for the views, man. I love that, that all brings it into like, into one big awesome journey. But then like that view is just like, boom.

[00:05:12] And that's what do you, what do you do when you go to a place like a Eagle, right? Eagle, no views. Um, you know, I, I, I still love it. That, that awesome walk after going up Hanes, going down Hanes and going up Eagle is one of those secluded walks that I do actually love to do for the, the rush of nature. And just to see around the deciduous trees and stuff like that.

[00:05:34] So yeah, Mike, Mike Kudish would tell you that's one of the longest contiguous stretches of first growth in the Catskills. Yeah. And it's fantastic, you know, and especially, you know, in the summer, I Eagle is one of those things of where the ferns are just right with you. And it's just the tree. Everything is just magical summerness and in the, in the summer. Yeah. Well, speaking of Eagle, I was there yesterday. Nice. Nice.

[00:06:05] Was it beautiful? Yeah, it was a, as you know, all things considered was a great day to be out in the Catskills yesterday, hiking, uh, on the eve of the storm that was supposed to be coming through hiking old snow. And, uh, it was a good day. Nice. Nice. So Tad hikes for the journey. I hike for the views. So then maybe that's why we're at that viewpoint so much at Catterscale High Peak. You're like, Hey, let's get out of here and let's get to the woods. Yeah. I've been there so many times.

[00:06:35] So am I. Yeah. But I can still, I can never, I can never get enough of these views. I'm just always like, God damn. Always. You always find something different, especially in the winter, man, when you're looking like you talk about the geology, seeing the rocks. I went like, we spotted that one little slide over there that we're not going to talk about, but, uh, like just spotting different parts. Like, Ooh, look at that little, uh, shelf that I didn't know was, was sitting over there on sugar loaf or. Yeah.

[00:07:05] Yeah. Well, I, I think Catterscale High Peak is one of the, uh, Catskill gems probably doesn't get as much respect as it should. Yeah. Cause it's so long. So, yeah. So let's break into some news. This is a big news event that has happened, uh, in the past week. So two hikers rescued in severe conditions on Mount Washington and New Hampshire. Um, now this was conducted on February 2nd.

[00:07:32] So good Lord, I don't have, it was a week ago, multiple agencies and search and rescue team worked together to rescue two hikers who had become stranded and whiteout conditions on the upper reaches of Mount Washington. Now shortly after 6 PM on the evening of February 2nd, New Hampshire fishing game was contacted at 9 1 1. Uh, received a call about hikers lost off the Jason jewel trail on Mount Washington.

[00:07:56] Uh, they quickly learned that two people, Catherine and be at a 51 to 54 of Massachusetts were stuck in very deep snow at 5,000 feet of elevation. Uh, they plotted GPS coordinates. Uh, 9 1 1 determined that they were only 34 feet from the trail. Now conservation officer was able to speak to them via cell phone and directed them towards the trail. Over the next two hours, McKee and Latour fought through chesty snow and spruce straps, uh, to try to regain the trail.

[00:08:26] They ended up on the trail several times, but not could follow it by completely erased wind and snow. Now, when you're up that high, do you start getting the Karens and such? And you know, waist deep, those Karens are probably, as I remember, probably like chest, maybe even lower, but they're huge. So they could be covered by snow or not, or they could be just covered by frost and stuff. And it looks like a regular tree and you just, you're just not on the trail. There's no trail markers or anything up there.

[00:08:52] So they had to do all to, to find that trail. So they huddled up, uh, after multiple attempts with fishing game, they needed to huddle up in the snow to keep warm and wait assistance by 8 30 PM, 2.5 hours after the call, fishing game began to conduct a full blown rescue observation. Now at that time, winter conditions on the summit had been temperatures of negative two degrees and sustained winds at 50, 60 miles an hour. Now that's not gust. Those are sustained.

[00:09:22] Constant winds. We're used to mostly not constant winds of maybe 10 to 12. 20, uh, up here in the cats, cause then gust of 50 to 60, not sustained winds of 50, 60 miles an hour. That's pretty crazy. So basically you're driving on the highway at 60 miles an hour. That's what it is. Constant. That is insane. So, uh, they ready their snow cat to bring the resources to the summit of Mount Washington and the pursue from there.

[00:09:45] Uh, mountain rescue services, uh, and members from New Hampshire fishing game department were called upon to attempt the rescue from the summit by 10 30 PM. The rescue is where I've been at the summit of the auto road, which is 4.5 hours at later after the call. Looks like they reached the summit of the jewel trail below Mount clay at 1 20 AM. And crews, uh, were approaching the last known location of two hikers who had, they had not yet made contact.

[00:10:12] The only way to locate the Charles through GPS navigation. And the was going smooth super slow due to the, uh, wind conditions and the deep snow at 1 50 AM rescue crews successfully located the two hikers. Both were alive and coherent, but suffering from cold weather injuries. Uh, crews immediately started set up, uh, emergency shelters and began to warm the hikers.

[00:10:37] Now this warming process took about an hour, but by approximately 3 AM, the hikers had brought back to a point of being able to move on their own. Once everyone was up and moving crews continued down the jewel trail towards the base station of the cog railway at approximately 4 15 after about 10 hours after they called the rescue party, along with the hikers safely reached the base station of the cog railway. Now they were evaluated and then personnel finally cleared at 7 AM.

[00:11:03] They both had hike safeguards and they were both prepared for winter hiking experience, but ultimately they encountered, uh, unforeseen conditions. So, uh, they said they had the right amount of gear with them, but, uh, they didn't state if they had snowshoes or not. That's could have helped them. I mean, breaking trail through chest deep snow could have helped them a tiny bit, but. I mean, I didn't hear anything about snowshoes, but amazing.

[00:11:34] Uh, display of, uh, heroism for these two people to be rescued on top of Mount Washington in the worst conditions. And, uh, it shows you how, if you're well-prepared, you can stay out there for, you know, eight hours until they reach you. If you are well-prepared and you kind of hunker down. So that's one of my questions.

[00:11:56] I mean, what is they say they were prepared for winter hiking with what I bring into the Catskills for a winter hike. I wouldn't be able to make seven hours in those types of conditions, you know, 40, 50, 60 mile an hour winds. Wind chill well below zero, you know, chest deep snow.

[00:12:19] Could you imagine just like standing still for seven hours in that place with what's in your backpack right now? Right. What would you, what do you have enough stuff in your backpack right now to be able to survive an hour like that? Oh yeah. I have, oh yeah. I have my tarp in the bottom. I have that emergency small shelter. They're the reflective thing. Um, I have extra layers of clothes.

[00:12:49] Like I always carry extra layer of clothes, like pants. Uh, especially in the winter, I have the, uh, thermal plants for underneath the pants too. Which, which means you got to take your pants off to put them on. True. I mean, how are you doing that in 40 to 50 mile an hour winds? Your clothes are like flying everywhere. Either that or I put them over top of my new, my, my other ones and just get that extra layer of protection. Mm hmm.

[00:13:17] I mean, this is the, usually these, these are for me, but I would say these are for somebody else that might be in a, in a crappy situation. But I mean, like you said, the Catskills, unless, you know, it is a crazy incident where you're not going to be seen on the trail, you might have to hunker down. But usually we're not going to be running into, you know, negative two temperatures, 60 mile an hour winds, snow, the trail is blocked out.

[00:13:46] You can't see unless, you know, you're stupid and you go out during a winter storm. Yeah. And there are people that do that, but I just, I think this story illustrates the amount of gear you need to bring with you into the white mountains or into the out of Rondacks versus the Catskills. You know, I think these women, they don't say what they had, but I think they, they must've had a bunch of zip on clothes, like zip on pants.

[00:14:15] You know, I have like zip on insulating pants, full length zipper, you know, from waist to your ankle. So I don't have to take off anything. And the same thing with like a hard shell to go over that I have, but I think these people probably had more than that for seven hours to sit there. You know, you, in part, you could protect yourself from the wind by burrowing into the snow, uh, using that to help shelter you from the wind, but you're still in a very cold environment.

[00:14:44] I think you need a lot of gear, maybe even a sleeping bag. Yeah. To survive that long. Darren, uh, Darren white. He sent me a stuff that they actually interviewed them. They did have snowshoes. Um, they said the snow wasn't sticking to every anything. So basically all that snows that up in the air and down below that is pelting off of you. What else? Uh, negative two.

[00:15:09] The key said she was wearing gloves with liners, but lost the use of her hands due to the cold. Uh, she had a first aid kit that she had made emergency blanket blanket and extra hand warmers. Uh, she couldn't open the chest because her hands were frozen. Uh, I was terrified. Sorry. I've read this. This is just, just coming to my attention. So grabbed the bag and use it as a wing guard wrapped in covering used over sleeping mats and back. So they brought everything to, to, to spend the night.

[00:15:39] There you go. Yeah. It's a, uh, hold on nine rescuers. She had suffered frostbred mostly to their hands. They sent up emergency shelters, emergency gears and extreme hiking winter. But they didn't expect they would lose the trail. And they felt really, they said they felt really awful about doing that. Hmm. So. Yeah.

[00:16:02] I wonder what, what the decision making process was for them going up, you know, were they thinking about turning around on their way up? Did they reach the summit that day? Does it say that? No, they never summited. No, they went, uh, not to Washington. They might've near summited clay, but yeah, it's, uh, it's just a lot of things. Just interesting why they didn't turn back sooner. Yeah. Especially with the, the snow deep like that.

[00:16:31] I mean, I know from my winter hiking in the Catskills that when you're out there and you realize that you're just not making time bail out. But, or it's not fun anymore. That's what I say. Like, yeah. Well, I mean, it could be type two fun.

[00:16:47] I mean, you know, the struggle sometimes can be part of the, the journey on the one hand, but I can, you know, there's countless times I've set out in the winter to do four mountains and I know halfway through, or even before I get halfway through, I'm not doing all four. And so I'm just, I'm just thinking of that bailout point where I'm just going to hike down to the road or to a trail or something and get out of the woods for the day. Yeah.

[00:17:13] So it's, it's definitely, you know, a huge difference between, you know, us and New Hampshire, of course, above tree line is definitely got way bigger risk than the Catskills. And it just shows you how their, their volunteer teams, you know, search and rescue New Hampshire fishing game and stuff all come together and they save these people's lives. But once again, 10 hours out there, six hours, seven hours in the, in the snow, man, that's, that's Everest shit. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy.

[00:17:42] But as we learned from our, our Rangers, um, these guys are pretty quick to respond, man. And they, they were giving some accounts of, you know, being able to get there and retrieve the person within a couple hours, which is, you know, great. That's kudos to them. Uh, but that all assumes they can find the person.

[00:18:01] And that's a big part of the rescue is being able to locate the person you're searching for, which I guess is, uh, another promo for something like a Garmin in reach. And eventually all of our cell phones will be better equipped to give you satellite location or at least give responders satellite location. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But thankfully those two were found. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:31] Another, not another one of those stories where. Yeah. Can't say that for everyone this winter. Oh, anything else? You got anything else you want to chat about, Tad? I don't know. You want to do recent hikes or you don't want to do recent hikes? Cause you don't do recent hikes. No. Oh, oh, geez. Yikes. I do recent hikes. All right. Yeah. Daggers. Let's, let's go to the monthly supporters.

[00:18:53] So we thank you once again to the monthly supporters, Chris Garbian, Jeff Jotz, Desert City Radio, Mikey S, John Comiskey, Summit Seekers, Betsy A, Denise Weiss, Tom H, Vanessa and Derek. Thank you guys very much for supporting the show. Greatly appreciate it. Also, thank you to Outdoor Chronicles Photography for sponsoring the show. Molly specializes in adventure couple photography and she'll immortalize the moments amongst the Catskill, Adirondacks and White Mountains.

[00:19:20] She'll craft time-match images that reflect your unique bond in nature's grandeur. Embark on an unforgettable journey with Outdoor Chronicles Photography. Don't hesitate to get a hold of Molly on all platforms. Also, discover the wilderness with the Trailbound Project. Our expert-led hiking and backpacking education programs offer unparalleled outdoor experiences. Whether you're a beginner or a seasoned adventurer, join us to learn essential skills, explore stunning trails, and connect with nature.

[00:19:49] Start your journey today with Trailbound Project and unlock the great wonders of the outdoors. So, hard-ciders, mentions? No hard-ciders. I thought Slade or the DEC was going to donate a hard-cider because of our interview, but nothing yet. Well, you know, it's a bureaucracy. It might take him a few years to buy one. Yeah, he's a lieutenant. It's going to take him a while. Oh, so, mentions.

[00:20:18] Looks like Tom Hoos and Jeff Jotz combined their... Who was that again? Tom Hoos. Oh, Tom Hoos. Yeah. I think we should rename this segment. Just call it Who's Outdoors. Who's Outdoors? Yeah. That could go either way, too. It's not just Tom Hoos Outdoors, but it could be Hoos Outdoors. Oh. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, right?

[00:20:42] I mean, obviously, Tom, you know, tags us often, promotes us, sponsors us, you know, organizing group hikes. You know, Tom is a rising star in the hiking community. A little shout-out there for you, Tom. But yeah, I think that's a good name for this segment, Who's Outdoors. Who's Outdoors. Hmm. Yeah. So, think about it. We'll present it to the executive committee this week and the board.

[00:21:08] I think we're having, like, the first annual meeting of the Inside the Line executive board, which consists of—what's her dog's name again? Dahlia. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Tom and Jeff guys, they're dogs. You know, they— That's right. So, yeah. So, everybody's—so, they combined their superpowers and hiked up Bear Pen. Beautiful winter hike. Tom was dissing Bear Pen before, but now he grew back and loved it.

[00:21:37] So, I've never had any hate against Bear Pen. I actually think it's a fantastic hike. Yeah. I'll ditto that. See, it's super easy. I gotta admit, you know, it's— Well, you know, in the winter, I've been up there with deep snow, and it's been a real effort. And there's some terrain up there worth exploring. You know, sometimes you just kind of get complacent, and you take the snowmobile trails when you go up there.

[00:22:07] But there's a lot of terrain up there to explore. I was up there this October with Mike Kudish, mapping first growth with him. So, that introduces a new thing to appreciate about Bear Pen. And then it's got kind of like that pseudo-pygmy forest on the western side. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, it's very cool. It's reminiscent of Graham Mountain. Yep. That's what I feel.

[00:22:33] And, you know, when the snow hits those deep levels, which I'm waiting for, some super deep levels, you could get very high to have a 360 view on that mountain. Yeah. It's got to be like six, seven feet, but— Yeah, I was going to say. So, let's talk about Tom again and his Who's Outdoors hiking expeditions. Yeah, so it looks like they went up Bear Pen. Jeff Jotz, another subscriber to the show, they went up Bear Pen.

[00:23:03] And then Jeff opted to go up Vli. I'm guessing, you know, Tom is doing his winters. Jeff, is he doing his winters, too? I don't know if he's working on something or not working on something. Yeah, I mean— Sometimes it's just about getting out and hiking. Yeah, him and Orla went on their hike up Vli and stuff. And it looks like they had a pretty decent time going up to Bear Pen and Vli. It was nice winter conditions, you know.

[00:23:31] Once again, not like they're breaking trail and stuff. You can't really break trail on Bear Pen unless you—you know, depends on where you're going and you're going up the regular path. Yeah, when you make that turn off the snowmobile path and head through the woods, you can break trail through there. Yeah, but other than that, I mean, it looks like they had a great time.

[00:23:54] So, and, you know, hopefully you guys are enjoying your winter hikes because it's been a fantastic winter so far, I think. For the past five to ten years, it's just been what I call it a kind of like a solid winter of just actually sustaining winter instead of being like a dump of 12 inches. Which is melts.

[00:24:13] Yeah, it's—you know, we've been becoming, you know, experienced with these marginal winters where it's hovering above and below, freezing during the week. And we get a lot of melt. We get a lot of rain. But looking at the forecast going forward, the warmest day coming up is on Thursday. But they're also calling for snow on Thursday. But it looks like any snow that was on the ground this weekend is going to, you know, stay out all week long.

[00:24:42] And then we're going to get some more days on Wednesday and Thursday and Saturday with some snow. So, more good winter conditions, but not like those on Mount Washington. Yes. Yes, Jesus. All right. And also, it looks like Beyond Blazes, Joanne went to and did the Burroughs range recently. So, we're going to have her—she's going to be on the show soon, just to let you know. Oh, really? That soon, yeah, yeah.

[00:25:11] She's going to be talking about stuff over in the Hudson Valley, so. Yeah, and I know she's gridding the Catskills right now. I don't know how far through her grid is, but I know she's getting out doing a lot of Catskill hiking. And from what I can tell, it looks like she knows the Harriman, Bear Mountain State Park, the whole Hudson Highland area pretty well. So, it'll be interesting to hear what she has to say. Yeah, it's going to be interesting.

[00:25:40] It looks like they had great conditions up on the Burroughs range. Those conditions are unforgettable, especially. Yeah, great place to hike in the winter. Yeah. And also, I just realized this, Rachel Jean the Gypsy Queen did Rusk on February 1st. So, I might have forgot this on the last episode or not. I'm trying to think if I did. So, if I did, I'm sorry. But she went up Rusk, didn't have to use snowshoes. She said she was spiked all the way up and had a great time.

[00:26:10] She did have a picture of where she was trying to get over one of the big logs that go in the way of the herd path. And I remember she was, looks like she's having a good time. And I was, I went over that with my snowshoes and it got locked on the snowshoes and I fell face first into the snow. Oh, yeah? Yeah. That was fun.

[00:26:27] I had a few incidents yesterday and fall on my face, but I just like went right through the snow and into like, you know, one of those cracks between some rocks all the way down. One of them I had a pretty hard time getting out of. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She also went to Woodstock Brewing. So, post-hike brews and bites. And I had the Moon Burger. I'm looking, I want to, I want to try that. So. Oh, yeah.

[00:26:53] Well, Moon Burger started off being meatless. And now I see they have beef burgers as well. So, you can get it either way. You can go meatless or all meat at Moon Burger with locations in Kingston, New Paltz, and Poughkeepsie. Nice. Nice. So, crazy. So, good time. God, everybody's getting out and getting some winters done.

[00:27:20] I'm actually glad that they're doing their winters with winter conditions. Yeah. Because, you know, like I said, the past five to ten years, it's been just ice and no snow. So, it leads me to ask, why aren't you hiking today? It's because I just kind of didn't want to. I wanted to sleep. Okay. And then you got the Super Bowl coming up and everybody's offering like some good food later on. So, I'm constricted on time. Yeah. You're doing Super Bowl parties this afternoon?

[00:27:51] My friends are. Yeah. I'm going to be going to that. Yeah. Who do you like in the Super Bowl? Eagles or Kansas City? The Kansas City Swifts. No. It's Taylor's Chiefs or whatever. Yeah. So, that's who you're rooting for, KC? Like, last I saw, they were a point and a half favorite. I'm just watching it because I know that we haven't added it. I had to pay $8 million for an ad. Oh, really? Wow. Yeah. So, you want to bet?

[00:28:18] You want to bet on the Super Bowl? I'll take Eagles. You give me a point and a half. A point and a half? Yeah. For what? No. I don't bet on overpaid athletes. All right. I haven't freaking liked it. So, I'm rooting for the Eagles because the Chiefs take out the bills every time. Yeah, that's true. I can't like them. All right.

[00:28:48] So, I was going to drink in anything with our previous thing. I had nine-pin cider when we were talking with the Rangers, Rusher and Horn. And then I also had an awestruck and had like a couple more. So, that was a long talk. Three hours. So, I just kept fueling myself. Yeah. You weren't thirsty. That's for sure. Not at all. You were well hydrated for that. I saw her like feeding you through the door. The door was opening. The hand was coming in with the shiny can. We'd hear the crack in the background. Yeah.

[00:29:18] And then the power went out at the DEC. Yeah. Well, yeah. We know why that happened. So, I have. I'm just drinking a cup of coffee right now. But I got some. I picked up some special stuff after my hike yesterday for the show this week. Oh, nice. Nice. Yeah. Nice. Okay. So, previous hikes. Ted, go on with your good story. And then I'll go on with mine. So, should I save my hike from yesterday for the show this week? And just go back. All right.

[00:29:45] So, last weekend, I did Panther Mountain from, well, I bushwhacked up to Giant Ledge from the road. And it was quite nice. I wanted to follow the, I forget the name of that creek that runs up through there. The Panther Kill? No, it's not the Panther Kill. I think I can look on the map.

[00:30:11] But I wanted to, yeah, I wanted to follow that waterway up. But it was just, the water was too high. There wasn't enough ice bridging. And it just didn't seem like it was going to be efficient to go up that way. So, I then just recalibrated and basically went straight up the slope to Giant Ledge. I've never been up that way before. It was quite pleasant. I'll say overall, there were some steep sections.

[00:30:41] There were a few hemlock groves to hike through. But, you know, there wasn't any real significant rock outcroppings to deal with going up there. I'm also looking at my map at the name of that waterway. I know I did it with Danny Davis. It's not labeled as having a name. But Cascade Brook, I think, rings a bell. But in any event, yeah, so I hiked up to Giant Ledge.

[00:31:11] And I had my snowshoes on all the way up. Banged a left at Giant Ledge. Headed out towards Panther. Still with my snowshoes on. Most people, the trail was like hard, packed down, kind of like a winter sidewalk. Made Panther. And then real interestingly, I continued north after the lookout on Panther.

[00:31:39] Into that little fault summit, if you will, to the north of Panther. Breaking trail the whole way. That's just a really, really nice section of Panther's summit ridge. And nobody had been over there. So I'm just, you know, busting through the crusty snow on the way over. And I'm thinking to myself, as I'm doing that like three quarters of a mile jaunt over, that for anyone who was hiking in from Fox Hollow that day.

[00:32:09] Right? And they're going to be, when they get up there, they're going to be tired. But they're going to want to make to the summit of Panther. And then they're going to hit my tracks. Right? And it's going to be smooth sailing for them right over to the summit. So I did that. It was really cool to be over there. And, you know, just because how wintry it was. And then I get back. I go over the top of Panther. I go down to my car.

[00:32:32] And then later on the day, I find out that Danny Davis hiked Panther from Fox Hollow. Right? So I don't know if there's a little synergy there or not, what happened. But yeah, he's like, yeah, wow. You know, I hiked up and I get to this spot. And all of a sudden there were somebody's tracks there. And it was like divine to be able to, you know, get relieved from breaking trail on the way over. And then he looked at those tracks that went off trail from there. He's like, what the hell is this idiot doing?

[00:33:00] You know, he would be able to figure that out. But yeah, well, I don't think he went all the way over to Giant Ledge. He went up to Panther and turned back down. Nice. Danny Davis stayed on trail? No way. Well, yeah. Well, I mean, he was solo and he was breaking trail to get up there. And sometimes, you know, it's just fun to do that. Honestly, any time of year, hiking Panther from Fox Hollow is a great hike. There's a few sections that are kind of ho-hum on your way over there.

[00:33:27] But for the most part, it's just really nice to rain. I find that whole area to be nice. Just that ho-hum. Yeah. Yeah. Well, now I'm hearing you saying it's about the journey, right? Yeah. I find that whole area over there is what you said, which means the journey. Exactly. But it has viewpoints. Those pointless up and downs. Those two pointless up and downs. Those puds have viewpoints if in the winter. Yeah.

[00:33:56] And there's those real neat clearings over there. And could you imagine there are some people that might even be doing their grid, their four seasons, or just a lot of Catskill hiking, and they never get over that northern section of Panther. They never hike in from Fox Hollow because they're just out there peep bagging. Yeah. And so they're missing out on that. And frankly, that's good because then it just saves it and preserves it for those of us who really enjoy that segment.

[00:34:22] And especially with that one section, when you start up Fox Hollow, you get to that one section that has all that blowdown from that massive windstorm that happened. I forgot when they said like the early 2000s or something like that, where it just blowed that whole side of the mountain over, which is fascinating. Yeah. I just find that that's cool. Well, all of that has changed over the last 10 years with the Emerald Ash Borer and all the ash trees going down. So it's just, you know, opening up. Yeah.

[00:34:52] Yeah. Well, you did a awesome Panther Mountain from like a Bushwax Fox Hollow thing. I was up Bramley Mountain this past Tuesday. I decided to stay local, stay close because I had some stuff going on later in the day. So I was like Bramley Mountain. I can like attack that quickly. And it was going to be awesome cold day. Like I started out at the trailhead over there at, I think it was 16 degrees and the wind was Holland.

[00:35:21] And I was like, okay, I'll, I'll take the, so it's called the quarry trail. You go up this actual hiking and then you take the, the fire trail, like the road down. So I did that. And, uh, I just wore spikes the whole way. There's a nice pavement going around. And then somebody, it looked like somebody wore like 42 inch snow stuves. Like these were old. Oh God. The, their marks in the fricking snow were at least the size of my arm. And I was like, who the hell wore these things?

[00:35:50] Like maybe it was Sasquatch. Yes. Could have been like, I would have been intimidated if I was Sasquatch by the size of those things. And like, I don't even wear those. Like, wow. It's somebody that had some fun with that. And it was pretty cool to see some people going off trail at certain spots because I know like, oh, this is an old mountain road that leads to this area and such. And then, oh, there's where some big Karens that they made a long time ago. That's where they are. So it was cool to see that.

[00:36:20] And as I got to one side of the mountain, the wind started to pick up even more. Like there were a constant, maybe 20 mile per hour. And then there were big gusts, like 40. So was it drifting? Did you get some associated with that? Yeah. Yeah. Nothing of like, like craziness where there were like three or four feet, maybe like two feet. And very small spots though, very small spots. And it was just, a lot of it was ice. And it's lit that quarry trail is really nice gain.

[00:36:47] It's like 1.7 miles with 900 feet of gain. So it's actually for a, a Western Catskill mountain. It's pretty significant gain and got up to the, the top. Unfortunately, the fire tower, like you cannot access any part of the fire tower unless there's a steward available. What about with, what about with bolt cutters? Bolt cutters. Would you bring bolt, bolt cutters with you to get into the fire tower or no? Nah, that's, that's, you gotta ask the DEC that.

[00:37:15] So Lori said there was something I have to talk about is with the, uh, the DEP that is not letting them have a person go up on the, even on the tower part to get above tree line because that is DEP property over there that they do. So really the D so the DEP owns Bromley mountain, the summit, and they let them put up a fire tower, but they're not letting them put a person in the fire tower.

[00:37:45] Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So you, and so they're letting you, they're letting you hike up or climb up the stairs to the cab. No, you can't, you can't even do that. Oh really? No. Well, isn't that so bummer that she's, she said she's fighting for that. Of course. Cause like. When did they tell them this? Did they know this when they were putting up the tower or is it like after the towers up, they say, oh, by the way, now that you, now that you built it, we're not going to let anybody go up it. You can't.

[00:38:15] So, but what about for like maintenance safety inspections? Nobody gets to use the stairs. Well, I guess, I guess you can like for them, that's gotta have like a certified like person, but that's all, that's all I know. I'm just, I'm just relaying the information. It stinks. That's interesting. Yeah, it is. Um, and you know, what, like it was cool because when I was at the top, there's a certain

[00:38:43] part, kind of like when you crest over and you'll go start going South on the summit, the summit's a nice big open spot. And on one side, there's absolutely no wind on the other side, there's 40 mile per hour gust. So I was having the time of my life. Cause it was like 10 degrees and then below zero at the top. And I was wearing like that, that Helly Hanson jacket is just fantastic. Just blocking everything, which way so whatsoever. And I was comfortable the whole time.

[00:39:14] And, uh, cool is cool thing was, was I saw a big cloud coming and I got hit with squalls. So I got a view for like five minutes and then I was hit with snow, but I was still sitting up there just chilling. And it was fun. And, uh, went down the, once again, the fire tower road back down to the parking area. And I start seeing snowmobile tracks and I'm like, Hmm, I don't think this is right. And then, uh, I got bored towards the steeper areas of the snowmobile trail.

[00:39:41] And then I see UTV tracks and there's a steep part that they did not get up. So I'm like, this like, doesn't seem right. So I was, I sent Lori a message and she's like, no, the only people who can access that is the DEC and the DEP. And, you know, if we get a, uh, what's it called? Like a permit to do that. So she's like, people are probably abusing that now. And she's, it's just really sad that you do something for the locals. And then there are local people that are going to abuse it. So come in the, come in the summer.

[00:40:11] If this is all wet and stuff, it's going to make that like bear pen mountain or Catterscale high peak was a goddamn moat. So, but it was cool. Got to, I love that challenging weather of just being in there with snow and just the wind and stuff like that. Once, once, and I had the views of Mount Pishka and I got old, see a little bit of Panther and then the squalls came in and I didn't say blow it, but it was nice. And then I head back down and had lunch.

[00:40:43] A good journey. Good, good. Glad you got out. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. So hopefully I'll get out soon again. We'll see. Uh, Catskill news. Once again, volunteer, they're probably making their schedules up. It's we need barely mountain fire tower stewards. So get up there. So maybe I'll become one so I can go up there every time. Yeah. Uh, do you need stickers? Let me know.

[00:41:08] Tom, who's finally got his sticker after, uh, yelling at me viciously over, over Instagram about how I didn't get him anything. He nailed me and I was like, Oh God, sorry. And I got it to him. So he got his sticker within three days. And now he's got a segment named after him. He does. Yeah. Yeah. Who's outdoors. Yeah. We should charge him for that. Sorry, Tom. But he's already a sponsor. He is. That's true. Yeah.

[00:41:37] So, okay. So, uh, good. Uh, see what happens when you, you support the show. We support you. Yeah, exactly. Mutually beneficial. Right. Right. So also got some news, big Indian wilderness. Uh, the writer hollow lean to on the maple nail olive ray side is closed until further notice. Uh, please plan accordingly. I got this from the DEC Catskills page or something like that.

[00:42:05] I'm very curious of why that's, I know that's, that's, is that the one that's sitting on the edge of the creek? Right. Yeah. Is you have to go over the bridge to get to it? Is that the one has the little steel bridge? Yeah. Yeah. I think so. I find, yeah, I find that interesting that that's closed. Um, you, you can kind of get the sense though, that that stream that runs through there probably meanders quite a bit. Oh yeah.

[00:42:32] A heavy rainfall and yeah, you could see how that area would be inundated with water if there's a big enough storm. Yeah. That's, that's definitely the one that's like sitting right in the middle of the creek. And, uh, you know, I've never, I was just like, who like, cause that floods, that's, that's instantly going to get like water in it.

[00:42:53] And so I, I mean, I didn't, the last time I was there was a long time ago and it, it looked okay, but there are definitely other shelters that need help better than that one that are open. Yeah. Yeah. It would be a questionable place to be questionable place to be after a heavy or during a heavy storm. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:43:22] So we won't go over weather forecast cause this is going to be released early on Monday. So yeah, we'll do that on Tuesday. And we're going to have a lot of content coming out this week. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So we'll set a go with our last set of sponsors and then we'll break on to Russia and Horn part two wildfires. Excellent. All right. So we discovered camp Catskill in Tannelsville, your ultimate hiking store, find top quality gear, apparel and accessories for all your outdoor adventures.

[00:43:49] Our expert staff is to hear help every hiker from beginners to seasoned pros. We also carry a wide variety of unique Catskill souvenirs and gifts. Visit us online at campcatskill.co or in the store to gear up for your next journey. Adventure starts at camp Catskill. Also, you can discover the beauty of the Catskills, Adirondacks and Hudson Valley with scenic route guiding. Our expert guides to ensure a safe, unforgettable hiking experience tailored to your skill level.

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[00:44:43] Another summit is dedicated to serving veterans and first responders with free outdoor activities. Activities like walks in nature, paddling, hiking and even backpacking. Join our supportive community to rejuvenate in nature's embrace. Experience commodity, adventure and healing at no cost. Take your next step with another summit and ascend to new heights of resilience and joy. Apply today at another summit.org. All right, so let's get on to the guest of the night. Let's go!

[00:45:13] So, with 2024, we saw a massive rise in dryness in just the forest alone all across New York State. We didn't have any rain. We didn't have any snow previously. Before then, it's been really weird. So, now we see this rush in wildfires. And this is not just the small containing wildfires that you have with volunteer fire departments, but massive wildfires.

[00:45:39] 5,000 acres is actually pretty crazy for New York State. We talk about the White House fire, 645 acres. Not a lot of people know how big that is, but it's massive. So, you guys have been battling wildfires, not just in New York State, but also out of state as well. So, you guys want to chat about the wildfires here? First, let's start off with Russia going to Montana. What the hell were you doing out of Montana? Yeah.

[00:46:08] Yeah, so it's a really great part of our program in the New York State Forest Rangers. We get to get deployed on Western fire assignments. Like, each individual ranger usually won't go every year, but every year we'll send out multiple crews out west. And we have an agreement with the federal government to help them out to fight fires out west.

[00:46:33] So, we usually do like one to four, maybe five different crews that will go out on a Western fire assignment for two weeks at a time. And it's usually New York State gets reimbursed by the federal government to pay for it. Yeah, we actually just had a crew come back just a few days ago. They were out in California on those fires. Yeah, yeah. And it's good for us.

[00:47:02] Good for them because we can help them. And also good for us because we get a different type of wildland fire experience on the western part of the U.S. on bigger fires. And then we could bring that knowledge and skill set back to New York. And so, this particular year, we actually had an agreement with the state of Montana.

[00:47:25] And so, we sent out multiple crews to Montana, like multiple engine crews and some 10-person modules. They're called a 10-person crew, kind of like pre-positioned for like a severity assignment, it's called. So, we didn't go to one particular fire. We went to Helena area in the Helena Fire District for the state of Montana.

[00:47:52] And we were essentially the hand crew to respond for initial attack for any type of fire that would start. They really focused on trying to keep their fires small so that they don't grow because it was extremely, extremely dry, even more dry out there with some really high potential for really big fires. So, they really get after it over there. They put a lot of effort into trying to keep the fire small.

[00:48:21] And so, our assignment was to patrol this Helena Fire District and learn the area. And yeah, I was there for two weeks and ended up going to a handful of smaller fires because we were able to keep them small. We heard about them over the radio. And there were a couple just from lightning strikes.

[00:48:42] They get a lot of starts from lightning strikes just because out there you don't really get the rain, as much rain associated with lightning storms as we do out here in the Northeast. So, they could get a lightning strike without very much rain and then the tree will burn and then it'll cause a wildfire.

[00:49:03] So, yeah, we got to respond to multiple lightning strike fires and see a really neat part of the country out in Montana and work with the state of Montana out there. So, it was a really good experience overall. Total different experience out there when it's like I've noticed that the trees burn out there when more about here is the underbrush that burns.

[00:49:30] Yeah, like the Ponderosa Pine, there was a lot of them out there and like these steep gullies and miles and miles of prairie fields and really, really nice landscape but highly flammable. Yeah, yeah.

[00:49:46] So, now we bring it back here to New York State where we've had rain inconsistent for a long amount of time and then we get also these fires that – what were like most of these fires started by? Like was this humans? Was this – Well, yeah. So, in September was kind of when all this dryness was happening and that was when I went to Montana.

[00:50:13] And then October came and then it still hadn't rained very much or at all and like everything was super, super dry. Yeah, there was a certain point I think looking at the statistics, it was almost like a seven or eight inch rain deficit for that same amount of time in Ulster County. So, it's kind of – it was like an unprecedented drought for the area at the time. Thank you. Yeah, and like in late September we had like something kick off in the Hemlock Ridge area, really close to that like Mount Zion fire and that was small.

[00:50:43] It was started by an escaped campfire. So, usually most of the fires in New York are started by people, usually accidental but either it's like someone's doing open burning, burning brush or like an escaped campfire. So, in this case it was – I found the fire ring, recently made fire ring and due to the dryness probably it was accidental.

[00:51:10] Someone tried to extinguish the fire but it wasn't fully extinguished. It probably was just smoldering but because it was so dry the heat went into the ground and burned underneath the campfire into the surrounding area, into the ground fire. And then just set the vegetation on the surface on fire after that. So, it escaped the campfire. So, why don't you describe that process for us in a little more detail?

[00:51:38] You're telling us that the fire actually goes underneath the surface. Yeah, yeah. So, basically – It jumps under the fire ring and then spreads. Yeah, yeah. So, basically there's like – you can call it a layer of duff, you can call it, where it's this organic kind of fibrous material with roots and things that will still burn. So, it's a layer of duff.

[00:52:04] So, it could be like decomposing leaf litter vegetation that's within like the first usually maybe four or five inches underground. It could get deeper in some areas. So, that's very organic and flammable. And so, during this drought, that's bone dry. Usually here in New York, we don't really get a whole lot of ground fire. Maybe later in the summer, we'll get some ground fire.

[00:52:30] But it gets very challenging fighting ground fire because it can creep. It can go under things. And so, you have this layer of duff that's super dry and then it gets hot and then it starts burning and it just expands out from wherever it is. And then it just heated up the vegetation that was outside of the rain and then caught on fire on the surface and then just started burning everything else. Yeah. Like here in New York, as JJ was saying, it's like we usually got two fire seasons.

[00:52:59] So, usually for us in the spring around March when that burn band kicks into place, that's usually like one of our first fire seasons. So, everything's dry coming out of the winter. Fuel moisture wise, it's available to burn. As summer comes around, it greens up. Really doesn't burn too much because everything's wet and green and we get a ton of rain. Going into this fall, and we'll talk about it on a bunch of these fires. And that's kind of contributing factor to why a lot of them got so large is that ground fire. That's typically more of a fall thing. And as JJ was saying, it just gets deep into that ground.

[00:53:29] And even if you don't see it on the top, it's still there. You've really got to be super, you know, you've really got to get in there and dig that stuff up and put it out. So, we had that happen at late September in this Hemlock Ridge multiple use area in the town of Platykill where it was this escaped campfire. And then it was only like a third of an acre and we were able to put it out and everything was fine.

[00:53:53] And then you go a month later, October 25th was kind of the day that it kicked off. And in that exact same area, it's not like a super popular area, but I think some of the neighbors have been seeing some people are going there just having fun and having a campfire. And so, I suspect it was probably something similar. And except there was another month of drying that happened from that time period.

[00:54:19] And, yeah, I got called at midnight. It was like, yeah, October 25th. I just come back from, yeah, Long Island, actually. Eric and I were at the New York Fire Academy in Long Island for a week doing wildland fire training for a special class that we had to take. And I came back from there and then went to sleep and then got woken up at midnight to say there was a large brush fire in Hemlock Ridge. And I was like, all right.

[00:54:48] And usually when they say there's a large brush fire, that usually something's going on. And so, I went there at midnight and the fire departments were already there. And, yeah, it was cranking even at midnight up to like 2 a.m. At that time, it was about four acres that first night I was able to get around it. And it was like 80% humidity.

[00:55:14] So, when we look at fires, you know, we're very focused on the weather. So, we know that it's super dry. And so, you know, the other elements are we're looking at the temperature and the humidity and the wind. And usually at nighttime, the humidity goes up. So, the fire activity goes down. And so, it was 80% humidity, which is high. But it was still, it was so dry that it was still cranking and growing fast.

[00:55:44] It was like four acres already. And then just kind of getting around it and trying to look at it. But, you know, there's a lot of risk for that. Burning trees at nighttime. When they get into the dead trees, the snags, and they start burning, there's a high risk that they're going to fall down. And, you know, they could strike you and kill people. But we're still trying to, still got to size up the fire. So, you know, I was out there trying to size it up.

[00:56:12] And coming up with a plan for the next day. And I was out there for three or four hours. And was able to come up with a plan and order some resources for the next day. And the next day came. And it was like, it doubled in size overnight, even with like 80% humidity. And then I got out there early in the morning and looked at it. And fire activity was picking up. And I was like, all right, I think we need some bucket drops.

[00:56:40] And we need to like call in more resources to get a handle on it. And, yeah, we worked really well with the local fire departments and the county 911 center for emergency services. And the fire coordinators, you know, kind of organizing the different fire departments for resources. And we were able to contain it at just under 50 acres.

[00:57:09] It went from four to 50. Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, like, yeah, first night it was four acres and it doubled in size to eight. And then probably over the next 24 hours, yeah, we pretty much capped it at that. We worked really hard to get a line around. And really, this is like all leaf litter fire, mostly. Yeah. I mean. Underbrush, right? Yeah. Leaves on the ground. Because, I mean, I got the call from Slade at like five that morning, you know, got there. It's like we tried to put line around that thing all day.

[00:57:38] And then, I mean, we were there until well past midnight that first night. I mean, the fire activity was just very surprising for New York. And JJ really didn't like paint the picture of the terrain. I mean, I don't know if you guys have ever been to Hemlock. I haven't been there, but I live between. I live just south of New Paltz. Yeah, it's a small piece, but there's, I mean, it's very, very cliffy.

[00:58:04] Like the terrain is actually pretty, pretty difficult, especially for trying to think in terms of putting a fire containment line around it. Which is something you would use like a bulldozer for? We do, but in this particular case, there was like a trail that we could improve on the one side. And then we created trails kind of on the other side. But then there's like, yeah, steep cliffs and rock. So you can't send a bulldozer there.

[00:58:30] And really, this was a, it was a leaf litter fire. And once we moved the leaves, then the fire would stop, essentially. It would get into the ground, potentially, especially if there's like stumps and stuff that are right there. You know, we're taking leaf blowers, leaf rakes, and digging line around it. And then that was kind of, that was doing a good job of stopping it. But the problem was, since it happened in late October, not all the leaves have fallen off the trees yet.

[00:59:00] And so we were constantly battling the fire, kind of reigniting itself from fresh leaves, fresh dry leaves that are falling down every single day. So we had to constantly maintain those control lines because the fire would just reset itself. And a week later, you would look at it. You wouldn't even see any black that already burned. It looked like it didn't burn because there's a whole new set of leaves that are falling down. And so we had to constantly babysit that for two weeks straight.

[00:59:28] And we were working long hours. Did that fire start up again? I seem to remember one out near the Hudson River that kind of rekindled itself. Yeah. I mean, it was still burning. But like, you know, I think it was a Friday that it started. And then we worked hard throughout that weekend. And then we're still working. And then later on the following week, we still had like some red flag days. And we had to contain it.

[00:59:56] There was high winds, low humidity, high temperature, and then active leaves that are still falling down. And so, yeah, it did kind of reset itself, but it was never out. We were still there every single day. It just kind of, all the leaves just reset the fire essentially. So we had to, we couldn't leave it. We had to flow every single day. We had to use leaf blowers, leaf rakes, keep on improving the lines.

[01:00:22] We set up a long hose lay that was, I forget the exact number, but it was like at least a mile. It was at least a mile. Wow. Up 400 or 500 feet in elevation rise to get up the cliffy side. And yeah, Eric set that up with some other rangers. And we used our pump. We have a wildland firefighting engine that has a high pressure pump on it.

[01:00:52] And then we're working with the fire departments with like a 3,000, 3 to 5,000 gallon drop tank that we would drop on the road, use our pump, and then hose lay to send the water up to the top because it just wasn't going out. It was so, so dry with no rain in sight.

[01:01:10] So the logistics here are you have a mile of fire hose that's doing a 400 feet vertical elevation that you're pumping water uphill for a mile, 400 feet from a 4,000 gallon tank. How long does it take to empty the tank? It would depend on how many nozzles we have open. So we set it up so we have a lot of flexibility on how much water we're using.

[01:01:40] And it's one of the strategies or tactics that we use is try to conserve water. And so we have different types of nozzles that we could use where you can just spray a little bit of water, a minimal amount of water. But, you know, if we have like all the nozzles open and it's like cranking, you know, maybe like four hours, maybe. To empty the tank? Yeah. So you're doing a thousand gallons an hour, right? Yeah. Wow. If we're cranking. Yeah.

[01:02:10] That's a lot of water through that hose, man. Yeah. Yeah. Compared to like, you know, you think of wildland firefighting, like a lot of the tactics are different than structure firefighting. So when you think of structure, it's like you want to get a lot of water there fast versus wildland firefighting. It's like, you don't need a ton of water, but you just need a lot of pressure to get it to where it needs to go. You know, talking about that elevation change and then adding losing pressure as you open up and close nozzles. So a lot of it's just being smart with how you use it. Yeah.

[01:02:37] And then a lot of it is basically looking at what is the high probability of area that's going to ignite quicker. And then the slower stuff you can battle yourself, whereas the faster stuff you need to battle with water. Yeah. Well, essentially the way we normally do it is like the basic strategy is anchor, flank and pinch. We try to go direct. We call that. So we're working close to the fire.

[01:03:03] So leaf litter fire is like under one to four feet and flame length, which is safe for us to go direct, which means that we're next to the fire. We can work safely close to the fire and then we're digging line around it. So it's leaf litter. Once we remove the leaves, that more or less will kind of stop the flames from progressing if it doesn't get into the ground too much. And that's all hand on work before you're like digging into that. Wow. Yep.

[01:03:29] Between like JJ mentioned, between leaf blowers, rakes, you know, portions of it where you maybe had to use a Pulaski or something a little more to get into the ground again, because it's in the ground. So you've got to cut that, cut it down to the soil as well. So I'm just putting this out there right now. I'm betting you Stosh a hundred bucks. Neither of these guys have gym memberships. Okay. You guys don't like going work out on your day off. You don't go to the gym and do like anything. You don't go do calisthenics or anything. You just relax. They don't need to.

[01:03:59] Yeah. I mean, damn, what a physically challenging job. Right. Yeah. Especially like, yeah, this last, this fall for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I ran around that fire, ran, ran up and down those cliffs every single day. With all your gear. So, and you, and you'll, when a flame length is up to four feet, which is about chest height, you'll go right up to it. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's getting on the fringe. So like JJ was saying, there's kind of like a threshold. So that one to four feet, it's like, that's within the realm to go direct. If it's getting close to that four feet.

[01:04:29] And then again, it's all situational. Is it four feet in getting into pitch pine on the ridge? Or is it four feet because the wind, the leaves are getting blown by the wind really hard. And that's like the max it's going to get. But once it gets above that four feet, you're looking to more go what we call indirect. And then you go away from the fire, you pick a terrain feature, whether it's a cliff or water road trail. And then you, you make that line away from the fire and then potentially burn that line that you've created off. And then that's pulled into the main part of the fire. That's that four feet or above.

[01:04:57] And then you're not necessarily right on the fire's edge or you're going back away from an indirect. Yeah. Wow. So it's all basically here and there and everywhere. And that communication, once again, with strategic planning of how to battle this. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I'm going to give props to JJ on this. You know, we're joking now that he's like our designated zone incident commander because he did such a good job running this incident.

[01:05:22] But yeah, a lot goes into being an incident commander and like him, like he just mentioned, walking that fire every single day, getting boots on the ground, reading the terrain, coming up with a plan for the day. It's like in between he's talking to the county, ordering these resources. I mean, there's dozens and dozens of fire departments on this incident that we're speaking about with multiple pieces of equipment. So he's coordinating all of that. Yeah. A lot goes into all of it. Yeah.

[01:05:48] Are you guys the primary source of like incident command when it comes to this stuff with the volunteer? You guys based on? Yeah. I mean, it's always a unified command. So it's always a joint command because like the fire departments have an obligation. It's their fight. Like in this case, it was Plattakill Fire District. So they have an obligation to be there and to fight the fire.

[01:06:15] Meanwhile, we also have an obligation to be there. We're legislatively charged to be in charge of the wildland fires in New York State, primarily within the Catskills and Adirondacks and the Gunks in these fire towns. Plattakill is outside of that. And so it's definitely a joint command. So it's not like we come in and say that we're in charge of everything.

[01:06:43] So we're constantly working with the fire departments. But, you know, this is what we do for a living all the time. This is kind of like our bread and butter with like search and rescue and fire. So we're training on it all the time. We're doing it a lot. We're fully immersed in the fire world. So we work well at the fire departments. But, yeah, we'll come up with a lot of the strategies and tactics. But it's always like a unified command.

[01:07:11] I mean, you guys are more trained in this area than, of course, the volunteer fire departments. Volunteer fire departments, of course, are trained more in structure fires and EMT and stuff like that. But you guys are trained more in the wildfires kind of prevention and stuff like that and, you know, containment. Yeah, but we worked really well with them. And, yeah, it's great.

[01:07:36] I mean, you know, really the fire departments are the backbone of our community and largely volunteer based. And, you know, we really, we really need their help. Yeah, right. Like just imagine you guys alone with a wildfire compared to some volunteer firefighters of 60, 70 people. Yeah, exactly. And this one we had to babysit every day. Like we said, like, you know, we wrap, we wrap a line around that. We get a line around it and then we try to put it out on the edge.

[01:08:05] And then we progressively work deeper and deeper in until it's 100 percent out, which takes a lot of time, especially when it's so dry. We're not getting any rain. And then the extra complexity of new leaves keep on falling down throughout that whole two weeks. It was very difficult. And like, yeah, it was like Groundhog Day. You had to do the same thing almost every single day. And then just like to paint a picture of the fall. So it's like that happened on the Friday.

[01:08:30] You know, we fought that almost through the night for through that entire weekend into the beginning of the next week. I get called away to go to another fire down in Putnam, Dutchess County. And now at the same time, there's other incidents in Dutchess County going on that the Dutchess County Rangers on. There's fires popping up in Orange County that the Orange County guys are on. The stuff's going on in Sullivan County already. So it's like you're adding to the complexity of not only is JJ running this incident, but now these Rangers that are on his incident are getting pulled away to go help support other incidents.

[01:09:00] And it just, you know, it kept building through the fall. So it's like now you're still working on that incident that JJ stayed on through the length of it. I'm getting pulled away. Other Rangers are on them. Then new fires are starting. So now we're getting spread in more. So now you're pulling in resources from from other areas to come down and supplement. So it's like trying to paint the picture for this fall. Yeah, we hammered this. The one that we've been talking about mostly is Mount Zion fire in the town of Platykill.

[01:09:23] And so we were working many hours every day for two weeks straight until basically we had it pretty much done. It wasn't 100% out yet, but it was it was enough say, OK, we can kind of pull the throttle back a little bit because then we have these other fires popping off. Yeah. So the one I got pulled away to was called the Old Pauling Road fire. So, again, there's already other ones going on in Dutchess and Putnam County. But this one was kind of the more active one of the bunch that was going on on that side of the river.

[01:09:51] So I got pulled away to that down by a ranger, Joe Preece. And then a ranger Russo kind of have that coverage area in southern Dutchess, northern Putnam. So that particular fire, the Old Pauling Road fire, I think that was about 22 acres. That started on private land. So we're still obligated to help fight the fire on private land as well when we get invited in by those volunteer fire departments that look for our guidance and tactics and all that.

[01:10:16] So we went down, we spent a few days on that one and, you know, similar deal with tactics, you know, anchor, flank and pinch. We set up a hose light to help contain it and, you know, work it from there. Now, with the, what was it, the Old Pauling Road and Dover, was that, was as crazy as the Mount Zion one? Similar. I mean, the terrain was very steep. There's some pictures of that one on DEC's page, I'm sure.

[01:10:41] But it was like a big cliffed out section with, you know, three, four hundred feet of elevation gain, I'd bet at least. And it burned 22 acres, which you kind of picture an acre the size of, say, a football field is kind of the best comparison. So 22 football fields on the side of this mountain. Yeah, it was kind of complex. It was a similar type of fuel. So a lot of leaf litter understory, but this one was a little more brushy as well. And then as we'll talk about with those red flag days that kept growing and growing.

[01:11:09] So it's like now we're another week into this drying period after the Mount Zion fire had started. And now the winds are starting to increase throughout this fall. So now it's like getting more and more windy on these fires that we'll start talking about after this. And the embers just continue to flow over to different areas. And, you know, we weren't you said you weren't involved in the Jenning Creek fire.

[01:11:34] Do you have any thoughts about that and such about the 5000 acre fire that happened right along the frickin like that was just insane just to see in New York state? We haven't had that happen since the early 1900s when they actually like started these fires up in the Adirondacks. Yeah. So JJ probably could help me touch on this. It's like 5000 acres for New York is a pretty big fire, but it's not it's not out of the realm.

[01:12:01] So you think of the more fire prone areas of the state with Long Island and the central Pine Barrens with the history of the fire they had down there through the 90s and early 2000s, at least, you know, and throughout history. But just recently with those ones getting up into two 3000 acre fires and then more specifically in JJ's area specifically, I'm sure you can touch on this more. But, you know, a lot of the big fires that seem to pop up on the ridge every five five years or so,

[01:12:27] you know, they're getting up there into the one to two 3000 acres occasionally. So five isn't super out of the realm, but it was definitely the biggest one in recent memory for the area. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it just was attributable to what we were talking about before. It was just the how dry it was and how much you had to really, really babysit it. If you're not there every every single day, really babysitting it just with.

[01:12:53] And then we get those high winds and the embers being deposited over over the line from high winds and burning leaves. It could it could easily any of these could have easily blown up like that. But but yeah, well, like I said, we weren't down on that one. So we don't know all the exact details of everything. But yeah, I mean, it was was pretty complex fire, especially involving two different states and multiple agencies.

[01:13:20] Yeah, I will say, though, the same day that the that Jennings Creek fire did what we call blow up and start growing large is the same same day that the White House fire started and ended up ultimately going almost three, four hundred acres that night as well. Yeah. Yeah. And before we move on to the White House fire, Jennings Creek was right up along or nearby Greenwood Lake. Yes. Yeah. I believe it's Greenwood Lake kind of Sterling State Forest.

[01:13:49] Parkland area. Yeah. And you guys were doing water drops. Yeah, they did a lot of water drops. Yeah. The Blackhawks on that one as well. Yeah. Picking up water out of the lake. Greenwood Lake. Yeah. Luckily, it wasn't Reservoir Lake. Like the White House. Jesus. So was it was that easier for you being down next to Greenwood Lake to try to contain that fire with water more accessible?

[01:14:15] I mean, the turnaround time for where the ship can grab the water from to where it needs to drop it. And it definitely helps when the lake is right there. Mm-hmm. And then compared to like the reservoirs, there's a lot of there's a lot of regulations with pulling out of the reservoirs that DEP makes the state comply with as far as just, you know, not trying to spread in vasos and all that. So not as many regulations. Yeah. So how many ships were involved then in the Jennings Creek fire pulling water out of Greenwood Lake? Do you know?

[01:14:43] That I'm not sure. I mean, there's definitely a fair amount. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely a couple state police. And then I know a couple Chinooks got ordered. Mm-hmm. Oh, nice. How much on average, how much water are they able to do per drop? Oh, it depends on the size of the bucket and the capability of helicopter. I mean, it could be anywhere from 100 to 300 to a few thousand gallons. Gallons? Depending on the capability. Wow.

[01:15:09] You guys are battling with 5,000 gallons compared to a... Jesus. Yeah. I mean, you know, usually the Hueys that we're using, yeah, we're getting like 300 or so gallons. And it's, you know, it's not like we're not... When we call for bucket drops, we don't really expect the bucket to put out the fire.

[01:15:33] Essentially, it's buying us extra time to get around it and to really just slow it down or kind of wet it down a little bit. Just to apply this time, essentially, is what we're using it for, which is very helpful. But there's no expectation that's going to put it out. Yeah. 300 gallons seems like a drop in the bucket. 300,000 gallons. Yeah. But just 300, right? That's what you're saying? One of the buckets, yeah, with like the... Oh, okay.

[01:16:00] It would take an afternoon to fill up my pool at 300 gallons of crack. Crazy. You guys want to talk about White House? Yeah, yeah. So we're talking about the over... Let's go to the Catskills. A lot of people were confused with the White House fire because they thought it would be called like the Bengal Hill and stuff like that. But it's over towards the Peekamuse area. We're talking about the Peekamuse corridor, correct? Correct. Yeah. So I was the first one on scene. I named it. So I'll go behind my reasoning. Nice.

[01:16:30] That's what we want to hear. Yeah, right? It's very important when you name the fire. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I was over at our Ranger Cache in Summitville. I was with Lieutenant Slade and Ranger Cref that day. We were refurbing some of our... We have these fire trailers that are full with a bunch of fire equipment. So the goal is to kind of get those things back up and running just in case new starts happen, as they did later that evening. JJ was still running his fire. We were just trying to get stuff ready. We were hearing multiple... It was super, super hot, dry, windy that day.

[01:17:00] So we were hearing multiple small brush fires over the radio all day that the local fire departments all over the county were responding to. One of them, the first one that we ended up responding to that day was Ranger Craft. So he got called away from Summitville. And one started right at the intersection of Peekamuse Road, that sundown area, and 55, right there outside of Gramsville. So he got dispatched to that one. I think that ended up being like five or six acres that afternoon. He ended up getting around it pretty quickly with the local departments.

[01:17:30] So Slade and I ended up finishing that trailer, and then I got sent to go help craft with that fire. As I'm driving down 55, I hear a call over the radio again. It's like, hey, somebody's reporting a smoke column in the woods in Peekamuse. So I'm like, oh, is it the same fire? Is it something different? So show up at Craft's fire. It's like, hey, you guys all good? I'm going to go check out and see what this other one is.

[01:17:54] So I ended up driving down Peekamuse Road going toward the Blue Hole area from Gramsville and come around one of the corners and let's just see a large column of smoke. So it's like, okay, yep, we definitely got something. You know, start thinking about calling resources and what I'm going to need and where it is, looking at maps, seeing where it's going. So I arrive on scene. The structure was like already engulfed. So it's like at that point, it's like, all right, this is good. And the fire is like out of sight up the ridge.

[01:18:20] So it's like I'm estimating the things already 20 acres by the time I got on scene. Wow. 10 minutes after it was called in. So right after I got there, a handful of the local departments that peeled away from the fire just down the road showed up. They started doing their stuff. I kind of gave them some basic guidance on, hey, start securing this area, watch the structure. They know what to do with structures far better than I do. And then I basically just started walking around the fire to size it up and just see where it's going and what it's doing and what it looks like.

[01:18:48] So just above Pekamoose Road is White House Road. So by the time I got there and basically at that moment, you're like, you got to name the fire and start calling stuff into dispatch. So it's like without thinking about it too much, it's too far away from Bengal Hill. I'm not going to call it the Pekamoose Road fire because that's sometimes naming it after a road gets confusing and it's too far away from the blue hole. It's like I'm standing on White House Road and I'm standing next to a White House. It's the White House fire. Okay. That's pretty cool.

[01:19:14] Now, when you first come upon this and you can't like, did you know what general direction this flowed in? Like with the winds flowing to the east? Because I remember this pushed more towards the east. Were you like anticipating this beforehand? Yeah. So start pulling up that map and sizing up the fire and it's like looking at that terrain and looking at the wind. You have a pretty good idea where it's going to go.

[01:19:40] So where I'm standing on when I first got there on Pekamoose Road, it's like I'm looking at my map. I got a thousand, eleven hundred feet of elevation gain straight up the hill from me. So it's like, you know, that thing's going to run to the top of the ridge even without the wind. But with the wind also pushing it up there, I knew it was going that way. So things to consider is White House Road had dozens of structures on it that people are in. So now you're starting to think about getting evacuations going because the fire is moving very quickly. It's getting dark soon.

[01:20:08] You got to start worrying about accounting for resources and where they are and what you have them doing. So a lot of it's starting to come into play very, very quickly in a fire like this one. But yeah, looking at the terrain and the wind and the map and trying to get an idea of where it's going to go is a major part of that. And that's that stuff, especially, you know, I mean, you got to hike up going from the Pekamoose area to Bengal Hills. It's not a difficult hike. It's a nice hike, to be honest.

[01:20:36] But going over from the White House area that I researched when this was happening, I was just like, oh, wow, that's pretty significant gain. And then, of course, you know, you got to call the volunteer fire departments, which, you know, I got to admit, aren't as physically capable as you guys are sometimes. But then they also deploy people that are physically capable.

[01:21:02] So do you want to not to diss the volunteer fire departments, but like, do you want to call like how that happened with the volunteer areas? Like, like, are they willing to jump in like 100 percent or like are they hesitant? For that for that night, we definitely 100 percent needed their full support. They're vital. They were vital to that to that mission and primarily for a structure protection.

[01:21:32] You know, I wasn't there that that first night, but it blew up to like 400 acres in one night. And when the wind was ripping, it was 40 mile per hour winds. And Eric Ranger Horn and Stratton and Slade, Howard Kraft, Russell and yeah. And like, you know, they spent the whole night there and those houses would have been lost if they weren't there and without the support of the fire department.

[01:22:00] And so, yeah, maybe you can talk about that a little bit. But yeah, they were vital for protecting those houses there. Yeah, we love the volunteer fire guys. And it's like, you know, you pick the ones that are super gung ho and are willing to do certain missions with safety in mind. So it's like everybody finds the role for sure. But yeah, I ended up, you know, walking at some point, like later in the evening, like 9, 10 o'clock. I walked around that whole fire and I think it was like 100 acres at the time. And we were coming up with plans.

[01:22:27] At that point, Howard had transitioned because it's his core area that he specifically covers and builds those relationships with. So at that point, we had transitioned to Howard Kraft as the incident commander. And then I took over more of like an operations role coming up with, you know, the wildland fire tactics specifically and helping him out with that and starting with coordination. Howard knew that he was going to have to be the incident commander the next day. So he ended up going home, I don't know, like two in the morning or so. Ranger Stratton and I ended up staying all night with a handful of local fire departments.

[01:22:55] And yeah, the primary mission at that point, like we talked earlier, going indirect. It's like we, with the 40 plus mile an hour winds, just ripping that fire across the ridge. The flame links were more than that four feet at certain points. So it's like we weren't getting a leaf blower flying around it. And at that point, we're thinking big picture days, days in advance of what we're doing. So the goal that night was structure protection. If we weren't there, I mean, dozens of houses probably would have been lost through that first night.

[01:23:23] But we ended up saving every structure with the help of those volunteers. Howard came back the next day. He took over for a bit. JJ ended up being incident commander after that. And again, we just went in and did what we had to do. And yeah, and it was really, really great. This was a big fire. I mean, let me compare it to like California and Western fires. It's a very small fire. It's nothing compared to what was happening in California. But definitely for the Catskills to burn like that.

[01:23:52] And many structures were, the population was a lot lower than in a lot of other places too. But there's still several structures, several roads that were impacted and threatened. But that's big. 400 to blow up overnight for the Catskills is a big, significant fire with multiple structures threatened. And all the volunteer firefighters, they all showed up.

[01:24:16] And again, working with the other agencies and the state agencies and county, Ulster County. And this also, it was in Ulster County, but it's interesting because like the Sullivan County Fire District is responsible for that area. Because just based on the lay of the land over there, it's easier for them to respond. Yeah, from Gramsville. Yeah. It's from Olive. Because Gramsville is on the Sullivan County side, but they cover that part of Ulster County. So that's their fire district.

[01:24:43] So we're working with Sullivan County Fire Coordinators, Ulster County Fire Coordinators. It's a different type of state and town and local resources to get all this together. And it's a big effort to organize all that. And we did it. It was really, really successful. I was really happy with the way that it played out.

[01:25:08] And like Eric said, we did have to go indirect, not only because of some of the flame lengths. During the day, the flame lengths really weren't that bad when the winds kind of died down. It was still like under four feet most of the time. But based on the topography and then how quickly it was moving, we were able to find a route where we used the bulldozer from the end of Brooks Hill Road. And tied in with the Bengal Hill Trail.

[01:25:37] So we had to do a dozer line from the end of that road and then kind of found a way to get to the trail, Bengal Hill Trail. And we tied in with Bengal Hill Trail and then improved that whole section from the top of, close to the top of Bengal Hill down to Peekamoose Road. So we just had to improve that. So we didn't impact the land at all, really. Yeah. So now it's going to become a one-person trail to a three-person or a four-person trail, actually.

[01:26:07] Yeah. There's a nice trail down there now. And this was – we also used the strategy of fighting fire with fire. And so whenever we dig line away from the fire edge, in order to call it good, it has to be black. And so basically burned. And so we're constructing the line some distance away from the fire edge.

[01:26:31] And then we burn it in a controlled way called a backburn, essentially, to burn the fuel and then hit the fire edge. So that it becomes completely black. Like a pre-burn. Yeah. Yeah. We call it either a burnout if it's like a small scale that was close to the fire edge or like a full-blown backburn that's a little larger way to do it in a controlled way. Yep.

[01:26:57] So let's jump back to the bulldozer and the path that you cut in with the bulldozer. What do you call that, the area that you cut out? The dozer line. The dozer line. Did the fire ever jump over your dozer line? Nope. It held. Everything held. It was like... Nice. Everything that we did worked for this fire. Gotcha. It was really awesome. Super well-coordinated fire. A lot can go wrong with that. Sure. I mean, you're dealing with the fire. It's not generally...

[01:27:26] It will go with the wind and other things and the wind direction changes. How long was the dozer line in terms of feet or miles? Well, we had a couple of dozer lines. The one from the road, from the top of Brooksell Road to Bengal Hill, maybe a mile or less. Yeah, probably a mile. Wow. Under a mile. Because we were able to find a fairly direct route and then kind of looped around a little bit. Gotcha.

[01:27:53] It's a little complicated with the terrain and everything, but we're able to keep it to that. And then that weekend, we basically made that control line all the way around as much as we could. Made that connection, that dozer line to the Bengal Hill Trail. And then we made another dozer line towards White House Road to go behind all the houses and then hand line around other houses.

[01:28:20] And then just make a hand line behind all the houses on Peekamoose Road so that all those houses were protected. And then just burned everything in between. Wow. And it all went really smooth. It was really great. How long does it take somebody to cut a dozer line in that area? Yeah, I was wondering that too. Yeah. Is it like, are you inching along or is the guy going fast?

[01:28:49] I mean, what's the rate of destruction? Yeah. For this one, I actually was what we call the dozer boss for that particular part. So you kind of have to scout it out. And then you obviously safety is number one for everything that we do. So a lot can go wrong with the dozer pushing down trees and stuff too. So you need to go slow enough that you're safe. You need to have visibility with the dozer operator.

[01:29:17] You need to be able to communicate with them with hand signals and lights or work all that out. But yeah, it depends on the terrain. In this case, we actually started. You need to have some local knowledge too. And I actually was able to tie in with one of the locals who knew that private piece that we're going through first. And there were actually some old wood roads that we use to tie into first. So it didn't have much impact at all. Basically just improving.

[01:29:47] Our lights just turned off. I saw that. You got a motion sensor? The state of New York is officially bankrupt. They haven't paid their electric bill. Screw the DEC. The forest rangers. Oops, nope. I see Elon Musk in the background. Yep. So basically it depends on the terrain. In this case, we were improving an old woods road that was there already. So it didn't take that long.

[01:30:13] But then we had to go down to an area that didn't have any road on it. But to go from that road to the Bangor Hill Trail, it took this dozer operator a couple hours. Wow. I would say. But he was really good. Where did he come from? Yeah. Who operates at? Yeah. He was from the town of Neversink. I think it was actually the town of Neversink supervisor. He was awesome. He's getting reelected, I guess.

[01:30:43] He did a really great job. What size dozer is it? Is it like a D10? What does he use? It was a smaller dozer. It was a small dozer. Actually, I forget the name, but it was a small dozer. We didn't need a giant one for this. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. But he made it so smooth that we were able to drive like a three-quarter ton pickup truck back there. Okay.

[01:31:11] So here, I've got two big questions. I'm going to throw one of them at you now. So we have this big fire, the White House fire. What are we going to see this spring when we go hiking through there? What evidence of the fire are we likely to see? And how long is it going to take for that area to regenerate for any of the fire damage that was caused?

[01:31:35] I think honestly, most of the fire was like a lower intensity fire that wasn't nuking anything out. Yeah. It's going to be really good for the landscape. Yeah, I think it's going to be great. Yeah. As far as it being visible, I mean, with the leaf layer that came down probably and all those, the wind blowing stuff around, you probably would barely even notice that it happened, honestly. I mean, you're going to see evidence of that dozer line that hits the trail.

[01:32:00] That's probably going to be there for a while, but it's kind of minimal, the amount that was on there. We kind of improved. We're able to improve an old woods road on private property for most of it. And then the part that on state land is minimal. You're going to notice that, but once you get to the trail, if you stay on the trail, you're not going to notice anything really. Yeah. It's probably going to be very green.

[01:32:29] It's probably very good for them. Yeah. It's going to maybe be invigorating to the area, getting rid of some of that underbrush and dead material. I know they, in the gunks, they do a lot of those controlled burns as a fire prevention mechanism. They used to. Yeah. They haven't done that recently. I want them to do, I would love to do. Even with the thorns, the thorns come back and they're horrible though. Yeah.

[01:32:59] Stosh is worried about the thorns. I'm worried about the mountain laurel and the rhododundrum, but in the huckleberry. No, I think I seem to recall at least in the last five, six years, the preserve was doing some controlled burns. I don't know if they do it more often than other areas or not. You mean like in Muska or? Over in the Mohonk Preserve area. Mohonk Preserve. I know they, they used to, they don't, they haven't done that in a long time. Okay.

[01:33:26] But I know that they have in the past and I would love the, for them to do that again. Yeah. We'd like to be a part of that. So when you say you would love for them to do it again, why don't we see controlled burns in the Catskills? In the Catskills specifically. So prescribed fire, like huge proponent prescribed fire as rangers, we do it all over the state. Specifically a lot in Long Island. We did some in, in Dutchess County earlier this year, but as far as inside the blue line

[01:33:54] of the Adirondacks or the Catskills, just for that forever wild clause, we will never be able to introduce fire. Gotcha. By law. By the law. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like that controlling it would be absolutely insane. Yeah. It's just part of the forever wild. Yeah. It's not like a super fire, you know, compared to like you think of a ridge in Montana or Yellowstone or even, you know, in the dunks is more of a fire prone landscape locally.

[01:34:20] The Catskills aren't as necessarily like it's not dependent, like fires happen there and they burn, but it's not like. Well, you say that Ranger Horn, but we've had a few people on the show talking about the old fire towers, right? I mean, there was a period of time where there were apparently fires in the Catskills, maybe not as many recently. But with this White House fire, do you have a sense if it would have been caught earlier? Had there still been fire towers in use?

[01:34:49] No, because I mean, it really couldn't have been, we couldn't have responded, I don't think, any quicker with me here in the call being like two minutes away, like literally because sometimes Peekamoose, you know, Ranger could be an hour or more away, but it just so happened to be that a fire was two miles down the road. So it's like the response time was like unprecedentedly fast for that particular one. Even with the fire towers, I mean, if somebody even would have seen it, it was getting dark. It would have been tough to paint the picture of trying to say. I gotcha.

[01:35:18] So the parameters of the fire follow, you know, the fuels, the weather and the topography. And so in this particular case, that combination, that fire was growing to 400 acres regardless of what we were doing or where we were. Just because of the 40 mile per hour winds, how dry it was, and then the topography and it's swirling around like that, there's not much. Yeah.

[01:35:43] When you say 400 acres, I think of when I grew up in Southwestern New York on woodlands, we owned just over 200 acres. So you're basically telling me that my folks property would have burnt up overnight. Yeah. 400 acres, 400 football fields. Yeah. To me, it's just that's wild. Wow. Yeah. That's wild. I know when we first bought that land, my dad did bring in a bulldozer and he did cut fire breaks through the property.

[01:36:13] Good thing to do. Yeah. We never had a fire on the land, but we were pretty, pretty good with that. So how many days were you guys fighting this White House fire? Weeks. Yeah. Weeks. Yeah. That's not. Was there any fatigue setting in? I mean, you, you just seem to go from one incident to another this fall. And that's what it was. I mean, it happens. I, I like to stay busy. And so, I mean, we're not, we're not working like that all the time.

[01:36:43] So, you know, we, we were going for a full, a full month, like full throttle, full, a full month where you're like working long hours every single day. You're getting, you're getting some days off and there, and, and management was good at like looking at that and making sure that we're staying as rested as, as we could. Um, but yeah, I mean, it does, it does kind of pile up on you, um, kind of sneaks up on you, but you know, we're, we're all good. We're all self-aware too.

[01:37:12] And we're not going to push ourselves so much where it's going to be safe, but yeah, we'll, you know, look out for each other. But, um, yeah, it was pretty taxing for sure. It was, it was a long haul. So kind of talking about taxing and taxes, you guys get overtime for this? We do. Yeah. So was it a, was, uh, 2024 a pretty good year for you guys with all these fires? Yeah.

[01:37:38] You don't have to admit we're just, I'll take it from the grins that, uh, the holidays were pretty happy around the, the house. Yeah. But you know, there's always, you know, yeah. Give and take with that. And, you know, I've, I have two little kids at home and a wife that I didn't see very much. And, you know, you, you miss, you, you make sacrifices. I make a lot of sacrifices for this job. I can imagine, you know, we, we work very hard, but you know, you, you miss birth, you miss birthdays. You miss a lot of weekends.

[01:38:07] You miss some family outings. Yeah. You get, you get called out on Easter Sunday. Right. Yeah. You're like, yeah, you save a life. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's an ultimately why we, we, you know, everybody that does this job, it's like most of us, if you picked any ranger, it'd be like, oh, I've always wanted to be a ranger kind of thing. So it's, you know, what you're getting into when you sign up for this job, you know, they make it very clear as you're going through the hiring process, as they're trying to weep folks out, like, this is what you're getting into.

[01:38:34] You might not understand it yet, but you will like, they beat it into you again in the academy. And then as soon as you get out, it's like, you still see all these incidents and you know what you're getting into. But I mean, I, I don't think I'd really trade it for anything. I mean, I love doing the job and, and it's, it's rewarding to me to be able to respond to all this stuff. And, you know, I truly enjoy going out and fighting the fire and helping, you know, carrying that dude off the side of the mountain or whatever it may be. It's to me, I do really like it. And we don't, you know, nobody takes his job to, to, to get rich.

[01:39:03] You know, you, you can earn more money doing other things. For sure. Do you ever get any like feedback, like emails, voicemails, stuff like that from people that you've rescued that are like, like, my God, you saved my life. This is, this is amazing. I really thank you. And then you're just like humble as heck. Occasionally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Write a nice letter or yeah. Like, like a phone call, which, which, which is really meaningful.

[01:39:32] And yeah, humbly, like you said, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. It makes you feel good about the incident overall. Yeah. Going through the year. I mean, it's just like what we were talking about between searches, rescues, switchboard assignments, the hoist rescues. All of a sudden we're getting into this super busy month plus long stretch of fire with the recoveries in between and then going back to fire. But yeah, I mean, it's right. Yeah.

[01:40:00] So now since, since we talked about it all, you can see like that, that witch's hole incident happened in between the, in between the, the Mount Zion and the Platykill fire and the White House fire. And then that was the day before that Popal Hill fire, which we were also out until four in the morning. Yeah. Like literally the next day. Popal Hill after we kind of like White House was still going on, but like it was, it was already fully contained and like, we're just working on mopping up the White House fire.

[01:40:28] But then we got this other new start, um, over at the end of like, you know, trails end road over by the, the long path by Vernoy falls and Spencer road back there. There was smoke that that was seen actually from, from Minnawaska. Some of our counterparts in Minnawaska, he sent me a picture and a text. He's like, Hey, we're, we're, we're seeing this, uh, plume of smoke from over here. Um, do you guys, do you guys know about it?

[01:40:53] And, uh, and I was like, no, I am not that far from there and can't see it. So yeah, it took a little while to actually find it. Cause like where it was positioned and the topography over there. Yeah. It's over by like flat Hill area. Yeah. We ended up, you know, just some of the other things that we do as Rangers is we also have Rangers that do drone work. So Ranger Martin and Ranger Francisquina for our area are certified drone operators.

[01:41:20] So they're given these, these highly technical drones that have thermal capabilities. So wow. Francisquina take his drone up and use thermals and actually point the fire and get a score to find it. I'm so old school. I was just going to ask you guys, like take a helicopter up there to look for it. No, you're just pulling like a drone out of the back of the truck. And yeah, well, actually it almost, it almost came down to actually triangulating where it

[01:41:44] was, uh, because like when you're on the main trail at the end of Charles N road, can't see it or smell it. You drive in on, on the back road, on Spencer road that pops out on diamond road on the town of Denning side. You can't see it or smell it, but then, but then you can, you can see it from further away. And I was like, where is this thing? And yeah, we, we ended up, uh, yeah, picking it up with the, with the drone, but it got

[01:42:10] close to, yeah, we almost had to triangulate with a compass, which we're trained to do. You know, you take shoot an azimuth from two different locations and plot it on the map and where the lines intersect. Then that's in the old days. I understand that's what they did with the fire towers. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. We were really cool map. And, uh, one of our field stations that, that shows that which pretty cool. It's, it's amazing. Once again, what you guys do with not just a rescue, but firefighting and stuff like that

[01:42:39] with what we've had in the past year, 2024 has been a crazy year for New York state. So it's just, uh, I, once again, appreciate what you guys do and, uh, just everything that goes, goes on with, uh, the, uh, joining us here on the, the, the podcast and just, you know, any times that you have been involved with a search and rescue and stuff like that.

[01:43:07] So hopefully everybody who's listening to the podcast, you know, three or four people will appreciate what you get or what you guys do about this. And you're not even smiling for the three or four people. You're like, God damn, I thought this was like 10,000 people. Well, let me say the following, cause our listeners don't get to see this, but, you know, I find it impressive, you know, how prepared you are and, you know, the level of professionalism

[01:43:35] you, you bring to your job and the love you have for it. But the one thing our listeners don't see that I've picked up on early in our video conference tonight is you guys strike me as you're really tight. Okay. This is not just like a job, but it looks like I see how you guys are sitting shoulder to shoulder smiling. I mean, you're, you're real buddies is what I sense. And you probably really enjoy working together.

[01:44:00] Uh, not just doing what you're doing, but there seems to be a tight bond amongst, uh, our DEC Rangers. Is that true? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, JJ is awesome. Yeah. What about slate slate? Is he awesome? It's the best supervisor in the state. What about Dawson? Dawson? Dawson's a good guy. Yeah. He's got the toughest area. Yeah. No. Yeah.

[01:44:27] He deals with a lot, as you notice, several things that we talked about today happened in his County. So, yeah. Yeah. I mean, we need to, we need to, we do a lot of challenging and difficult things together and, uh, we really have to trust each other and, um, it happens over time and yeah, no, you really do need to have some type of trust with the people that you work with when you do these things. Yeah. They're on the other end of the rope. Right. Yeah.

[01:44:57] As far as rangers go, I mean, there's only what 130 of us or so in the state. So it's, you know, there's not many of us out for New York's four or five plus million acres of public land. So, you know, you gotta have a good bond with the people that you work with because you're going to be seeing them quite a bit. Yeah. Crazy. Crazy. So, uh, once again, thank you for joining us tonight. Uh, last question. Uh, I know you guys are the Southern part of the Catskills. So post hike, bruising bites.

[01:45:24] Now we always ask about this, where you guys go after kind of like a success story or a hike or something like that. It's gotta be Snyder's Tavern. Yeah. I know horn deep from the sounds of it. He grew up right around the corner. So that's probably where he learned how to triangulate and bushwhack was getting in and out of Snyder's. I've been a handful of times. That's a good, that's a good spot. I'm pretty close, but I'd have to give a shout out to the, uh, it seems like me and the guys in the district frequent the high falls cafe quite a bit. Uh, they have a solid wing night.

[01:45:55] High pulse cafe. All right. High falls. Yeah. Just right outside of stone Ridge. So those guys are, those guys are good. That is a first. Yeah. That's on what? Two 13. 209. 209. Okay. Oh, I know where you are. Yeah. What about you, rusher? I mean, I, I, I agree with, uh, with horn over there, you know, nice. That was a good, uh, wing night. And then, you know, other times we're done at like 2 AM and like what's open at 2 AM. You have to find it. You have to find a diner that's open. Yeah.

[01:46:23] The diner in Tannersville, the diner in New Paltz. Yeah. It's working all night. And then like, yeah, you get done with a complicated, uh, incident, but you like didn't eat like a real dinner and you're, and you're hungry and you still got some adrenaline going. So you don't feel like going home just yet, but you need to get something in you. But so sometimes the, the 2 AM diner is kind of limited from the area. Yeah. And you just want a massive burger or something like that, or some crispy chicken. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:46:52] But one time we had to go to dominoes and then you go to sleep right after, then you wake up, but don't feel so great. Right. Yeah. Yeah. We have dominoes here and I'm just like, ah, God, that was so delicious. And then you're like, I totally regret that decision. Yeah. Anything else you guys want to add before we, uh, we end the show? Uh, just throw one thing out there. I mean, JJ's number, my phone number, every ranger in the state's phone number is posted on right on, you know, DC's website.

[01:47:21] We're always fielding questions. You know, if you're interested in the ranger job, you know, you want to reach out to a ranger in your area. Just give any one of us a call. You know, we're happy to talk about the job. Like we did tonight, you know, and all the, all the details or just any general hiking question, you know, all, all our info is posted online. Once again, uh, thank you for what you guys do. And, you know, thank you for Jeff for hooking us up and, you know, having this conversation

[01:47:46] because not, not only do we cover incidents, we covered fire, uh, incidents and stuff like that. It's just, it's been a phenomenal time. I wish we could have met in person, but, you know, we'll do that another time. Let's see what 2025 brings. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds good. Yeah. So yeah. Thanks a lot for, for having us. Yeah. Thanks for taking your time out, you know, sitting at the, uh, the DC area instead of, you know, yeah. Yeah. We don't like going to the office too much. We like being in the woods better.

[01:48:15] Most amount of time I spent in the office in a while. Well, that's good. I will say that's good. All right. So, uh, have a good night guys. Uh, hopefully to see you guys again in the future. Sounds good. Have a good night. Thank you for all you do guys. Really appreciate it. Yep. Bye everyone. Bye everyone. I just want to thank you for listening to the show.

[01:48:40] If you enjoyed the show, subscribe and throw down a smooth review on Spotify, Apple podcasts, or any podcast platform that you use. You can also check daily updates of the podcast, hikes, hiking news, and local news on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and the official website of the show. Remember this, you got to just keep on living in the Catskills, man.

[01:49:10] M-I-B-I-S. Wicked. Wicked. Wicked. Wicked. Wicked. Wicked. Wicked. Wicked. Wicked.