Episode 152 - Ava from TriState Hikers

[00:00:29] The bushwhacks were some of the worst days I've ever had in the mountains, or life really.

[00:00:36] Whereas Pantsy Mountain is totally opposite, it's a mountain on top of a crater.

[00:00:42] I think the weather challenges on this incident were particularly difficult.

[00:00:47] It improved the development of New York State. Catskills will respond to it.

[00:00:52] Passing into Inside The Line, the Catskill Mountains Podcast.

[00:01:08] You're staring at the screen. Tell me when you're ready. Are you doing all your settings? That was weird last time.

[00:01:15] Was it? It didn't work?

[00:01:17] Yeah, yeah. It was like...

[00:01:20] Oh, that was maybe me sipping.

[00:01:22] Oh.

[00:01:24] Let me know when you're ready.

[00:01:26] Well, I'd be ready, but I can't see you. You have your press photo.

[00:01:29] Oh, do I? Oh, okay.

[00:01:32] It's not that flattering.

[00:01:33] There we go.

[00:01:34] I'm just kidding. Just kidding, Stosh.

[00:01:36] No, no, you're not.

[00:01:37] Need to grab a roll of paper towels.

[00:01:40] Nice, nice.

[00:01:41] Okay.

[00:01:42] All right, all right. Ready? Three, two, one.

[00:01:48] Sounds good. I hope it did.

[00:01:50] See you on the playback.

[00:01:52] Hope it tastes as good as it sounds.

[00:01:54] God, that tastes so good.

[00:01:56] All right.

[00:01:57] So how are you doing tonight?

[00:01:59] I have nothing to complain about.

[00:02:02] Good.

[00:02:02] I'm in the bonus territory when it comes to Christmas shopping, which is always good with a week to go.

[00:02:09] So...

[00:02:10] Yeah.

[00:02:10] I feel like I've been a good Santa.

[00:02:12] Well, that's good. That's good.

[00:02:14] So welcome to 152, episode 152 of Inside the Line, the Catskill Mountains Podcast.

[00:02:22] Tonight, we are going to have Ava on here from the Tri-State Hikers group.

[00:02:27] And we're going to chat about her little organization that benefits the tri-state area down in the lower area of New York City, Connecticut.

[00:02:38] Like she said, everywhere, right?

[00:02:39] Yeah, everywhere. And you said little organization. She's got over 250 active members. They've got a program for kids that she's trying to pump up some more support for. So stay tuned for the long haul. It's going to be a good show.

[00:02:58] Correct. Correct. It's going to be fantastic. I'm having a lot of trouble trying to find what's going on right now.

[00:03:06] You look disorientated and...

[00:03:09] I am disoriented. What the hell is going on here?

[00:03:12] It looks... I see in your window, it looks like a drone just went by.

[00:03:15] I know, right?

[00:03:16] Or a car. There's another one.

[00:03:18] There's another one. They're all over the place. There we go. There we go. Everything's good now.

[00:03:24] So... God. Okay. Hold on. I can't see the bottom of my...

[00:03:29] Like I can't access out of this. So...

[00:03:32] What did you open when we started? Was that just a hard cider or was that like some noxious gas that's like made you brain dead?

[00:03:40] Is it maybe brain dead? I'm all out of this. So...

[00:03:45] The DEC announces a $15 million new grant funding for community reforestation.

[00:03:52] So pretty cool stuff somewhat.

[00:03:55] Their funding supports New York State's 25 million trees by 2033 initiative

[00:04:00] and a climate change leadership and community protection acts and reforestation projects.

[00:04:05] So DEC announced... This was a couple days ago actually.

[00:04:10] A $50 million appropriation for competitive grants supporting re-silent reforestation.

[00:04:16] So I'm guessing that this means like if you have some farmland or some land that's empty and open,

[00:04:23] that I don't know if they would pay you to grow trees. Is that correct, Ted?

[00:04:29] Yeah. My understanding of this program is it's a grant reimbursement program.

[00:04:37] To make an application, you need to have a forester that either you hire or volunteers their time

[00:04:45] to come up with a plan for your property or the area of the property that you want to reforest.

[00:04:51] And then you submit it to the DEC and they will fund your project to reforest some land,

[00:05:00] which is generally a good thing because a lot of animals are losing their habitat to the growth of suburbia upstate.

[00:05:08] Yeah.

[00:05:09] And having a place for the birds, the deer, the critters and mountain lions would be a good thing.

[00:05:16] Yeah. Yeah. So that's a positive news. We can have some mountain lions climbing some, uh,

[00:05:20] Yeah.

[00:05:20] You know, trees. I mean, you've been through those, uh, CCC areas, the, that they're just sitting up in those huge,

[00:05:28] like redwoods and not redwoods. Uh, you know, those pines and stuff just hanging out.

[00:05:33] Correct. And I think that's part two of the program is if you build the forest, they will come.

[00:05:40] That's what I was thinking.

[00:05:41] And it says more than 85% of the state's populations lives near or, uh, in an urban community.

[00:05:48] So if you have this, this area, you know, a couple acres or an acre or so that you, you want to give to the state to, to grow some forest.

[00:05:58] I don't know what they would grow. Hopefully it won't be like the, uh, the old forest where they just go lines of pines and the most pines die within 30 years.

[00:06:09] You say that I, I grew up on 240 acres and Southwestern New York state that in the, uh, 1800s was heavily logged.

[00:06:19] And in the early 1900s, it was reforested and we literally had about 30 acres of it, a portion of it that the pine trees were planted like corn in a corn field, straight rows, even spacing.

[00:06:36] So it was for a kid growing up. It was one of the coolest places ever.

[00:06:40] It's really cool to see. You see that more up in Northern Catskills, up towards Hunter's field and stuff like that.

[00:06:47] And then of course where I live in Oneonta, we have a lot of that and it, it feels kind of like, uh, I dunno, spiritual and stuff like that, that they're in a row.

[00:06:57] And you kind of feel like you're walking down an alley and just like, you feel just, but it's also like they, they don't last long.

[00:07:05] Well, ours lasted, uh, for, you know, uh, decades.

[00:07:10] And then sometime in the early nineties, a tornado came through and, and about two thirds of the way up these trees that just topped them.

[00:07:21] Oh wow.

[00:07:22] And yeah, there was probably a 30, 40 foot wide, you know, uh, space of destruction through that area, which was on the one hand, it was pretty cool.

[00:07:34] On the other hand, it was about 200 yards from my folks house.

[00:07:36] So the tornado was that close and being, you know, with the trees being planted like that, the roots aren't that like deep.

[00:07:46] So they can't really stay up that, that great.

[00:07:48] No, none of the trees really were knocked over.

[00:07:51] It was just like, they were all topped.

[00:07:52] Like the upper 15, 20 feet of these trees was taken off and maybe that's just up where I lived in.

[00:07:59] Yeah.

[00:08:00] We have better soil in Southwestern New York.

[00:08:03] Yeah, probably.

[00:08:04] Um, so, uh, the majority of the funding 12 million is available to municipalities, Indian tribes and nations, and nonprofit organizations to reimburse costs for projects.

[00:08:15] Uh, the maximum grant allowed is 3 million and the minimum is 150,000.

[00:08:21] So, uh, uh, D so C will host a webinar on January 9th, 2025.

[00:08:28] I mean, crazy to say that it's 2025.

[00:08:30] Jesus Christ.

[00:08:31] Whoa.

[00:08:32] Yeah.

[00:08:33] Damn.

[00:08:34] Oh, by the way, Merry Christmas.

[00:08:36] Yeah.

[00:08:36] Yeah.

[00:08:37] We forgot about that.

[00:08:38] Yeah.

[00:08:38] We could talk about what we're our Christmas episode coming up next week.

[00:08:41] It's, I guess it's going to be a spectacular.

[00:08:44] Yeah.

[00:08:45] It's going to be a wrap up.

[00:08:46] That's going to be fun.

[00:08:47] Are we going to exchange gifts?

[00:08:49] We're going to do a gift exchange, like a cider for beer exchange, something like that.

[00:08:53] Yeah.

[00:08:53] I'll send you something.

[00:08:54] Have a grab bag.

[00:08:55] Yeah.

[00:08:57] Um, what else?

[00:08:59] Uh, nothing really else.

[00:09:00] Uh, to about it says 47 million was supported to new goal planning 25 million trees by 2023.

[00:09:09] So, uh, once again, if you have some, some land, go ahead and, uh, donate it.

[00:09:15] Uh, and, and, uh, yeah, well, you don't have to donate the land.

[00:09:19] Uh, they'll come in and this is for your land.

[00:09:21] You get to keep the land.

[00:09:23] I'm sure there are certain restrictions in terms of, uh, harvesting the trees down the road, but, you know, a reforestation project takes, you know, 30, 40, 50 years to really cement, to get these trees worthy of, you know, having some stump value.

[00:09:44] And you, you know, you've been over of course, of course on the long path up north towards like, like I said, Hunterfield, Pishka, stuff like that, where they've reforested and they cut down and they're trying to let it grow back again.

[00:09:56] Uh, you know, what are your thoughts on that?

[00:09:59] Like it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's life, isn't it?

[00:10:03] Like that's the way things have happened.

[00:10:04] Yeah.

[00:10:05] I, you know, arguably a hundred years ago and beyond there was more destruction in the forests

[00:10:13] with forest fires.

[00:10:14] Mm-hmm .

[00:10:15] And although we did this year have some notable forest fires in the Catskills and around Greenwood Lake, that was kind of the exception.

[00:10:23] And the rule these days is these fires, particularly in the Catskills are few and far between, uh, but a hundred years ago, they were more common and their ability to fight them wasn't as great.

[00:10:37] So there was more destruction.

[00:10:38] So, you know, uh, doing these programs is meaningful and, uh, generally speaking, we're in favor of trees.

[00:10:47] I know Matt Smith likes to cut trees.

[00:10:52] So, uh, I'm sure he's in favor of this as well.

[00:10:56] Yeah.

[00:10:56] And, you know, I wanted to share an awesome story on that.

[00:11:00] Uh, you know, Matt was talking about sorry and stuff like that.

[00:11:03] Darren, uh, white, one of our supporters of the show is now going to become a swamper and then hopefully a Sawyer.

[00:11:10] Hmm.

[00:11:11] I was just, when he sent me that message, he's just like, I've had experience and I'm, I'm looking at, I'm kind of contacting with Matt about this.

[00:11:19] And I was like, what the hell?

[00:11:21] This is amazing.

[00:11:22] Is that because of the episode?

[00:11:23] Yeah.

[00:11:24] That's probably the questions I asked.

[00:11:26] Yeah.

[00:11:26] Yeah.

[00:11:27] I'm just joking.

[00:11:28] It's, it's all because of Tad.

[00:11:30] Yeah.

[00:11:30] Yeah.

[00:11:30] It's all because I got people out there cutting up trees left and right.

[00:11:35] Yeah.

[00:11:35] Yeah.

[00:11:36] Without, without licenses.

[00:11:37] Yeah.

[00:11:38] On the van, van, show it into her.

[00:11:40] Right.

[00:11:41] Anything for an easy bushwhack.

[00:11:43] Right.

[00:11:44] No, no, not at all.

[00:11:45] So, uh, once, once again, that's pretty cool.

[00:11:48] Thank you, Matt.

[00:11:49] And, uh, you know, Darren, that's awesome that you're going to be joining.

[00:11:52] I can't wait to, to hear your success stories of countries.

[00:11:55] Cause I've heard with a lot of the trail conditions, Ted, I know you're not a Facebook guy, but a lot of truck conditions, there's a lot of blow downs around the areas and I'm like balsam mountain stuff like that.

[00:12:05] A lot of blow downs happened.

[00:12:07] Yeah, I would agree.

[00:12:09] Yeah.

[00:12:09] My limited on trail experience recently would confirm a lot of, uh, trees have been blown over or bent over on the trails.

[00:12:21] And, you know, that heavy, wet snow clings to them, bends them over and then they just freeze to the, the other, you know, snow that's fallen and it damages them.

[00:12:35] So they need a good thaw on the one hand.

[00:12:37] On the other hand, we like winter.

[00:12:39] We'd like it to stay super cold all winter long.

[00:12:42] Yeah, definitely.

[00:12:43] Definitely.

[00:12:44] Uh, so also the new 3500 club canister is out.

[00:12:48] If you don't know what the canister is, that's a little kind of wrap up of every month of the 3500 club.

[00:12:54] And, uh, it's phenomenal.

[00:12:56] Once are good.

[00:12:56] Once again, Jack, uh, from the 3500 club has done a phenomenal job on that to make it a presentable on the internet, make it presentable to everyone.

[00:13:07] And, uh, there's several articles on that, that are absolutely phenomenal.

[00:13:12] Julie is talking to, they're talking about Julie's 3500 club ski finish.

[00:13:18] Uh, Ken Posner on there, both former people that have been on the, on our episodes about barefooting and not just the catscalls, but all over the goddamn place.

[00:13:28] Ken is all over the place.

[00:13:29] Yep.

[00:13:29] So awesome.

[00:13:31] Little tidbits about that from Michael Bogner and they, you know, just everybody.

[00:13:37] It's just, it's a phenomenal.

[00:13:38] So yeah, it's a very interesting and rich, uh, issue of the canister.

[00:13:46] And they got merch, uh, new merch.

[00:13:49] Yeah.

[00:13:49] Yeah.

[00:13:49] I'd like to check out some of that stuff.

[00:13:52] And speaking of merch, I am trying to get something going.

[00:13:57] So bear with me if you have any thoughts of like, uh, like what sizes you want as a t-shirt.

[00:14:04] I'm trying to get t-shirts out there.

[00:14:05] Give me sizes so I can get a kind of estimate of what to go.

[00:14:08] I'm, I, I'm thinking of going with moisture wicking it's, it's kind of expensive, but you know, I would like people to wear these out in the trails and stuff like that.

[00:14:17] And to enjoy them, but then like cotton's cheap.

[00:14:20] Yeah.

[00:14:20] One of the things I did read in the canister is in order next, starting next year, in order for any of your sign-ins at a canister to qualify, you have to take a selfie of you by the canister wearing our t-shirt.

[00:14:38] Or tag the podcast.

[00:14:40] Yeah.

[00:14:41] Yeah.

[00:14:41] Otherwise the hike doesn't count for you.

[00:14:44] Exactly.

[00:14:44] Another rule that they're coming out with.

[00:14:46] We're sorry about that, but that's the way it's going to be.

[00:14:49] That's fine with me.

[00:14:50] I, I, I definitely, I definitely support that.

[00:14:54] Uh, you know, once again, if you can share, share, sharing is caring, I guess that's what they say, uh, on anything, you know, Ted starting to share his, his stuff a little bit more with the podcast now and actually letting people comment on his, his, uh, post, which is absolutely atrocious.

[00:15:10] Yeah.

[00:15:11] Limited commenting is permitted.

[00:15:13] And then you get, you get some strange comment where somebody is trying to sell something on your, your Instagram page.

[00:15:20] Yeah.

[00:15:20] So that's, I get that all the time.

[00:15:22] It'd be all right if they were paying me for the, you know, the, uh, airtime, but just, I run a strict for profit operation here and no free loaders.

[00:15:33] Yeah.

[00:15:34] And you know, that's funny because I get messages all the time from people, uh, like asking me like, like different organizations be like, Hey, we'd love to be a sponsor of your podcast.

[00:15:46] It'll cost 60 bucks per episode or something like that.

[00:15:49] And you know what I send them?

[00:15:51] I send them a picture of my dog pooping and they do not respond.

[00:15:58] Like I will send you the screenshots.

[00:16:01] If anybody wants the screenshots of this, they will be like, Hey, we're looking to get with your organization or we're, we're looking to shut down your page because you have done violated stuff.

[00:16:11] And I'll send them a picture of my dog pooping.

[00:16:13] This is where we, we, we want to know what the BAC content of the beverage you're drinking.

[00:16:19] Can you just hold that up so we can verify what's that?

[00:16:23] Hold on.

[00:16:23] It's a cider donut.

[00:16:24] It's a, it's a 54, 54.9% alcohol.

[00:16:30] And also it's also used as an anti-freeze in Antarctica.

[00:16:34] I'm a jerky boys kind of guy.

[00:16:35] So I go all out.

[00:16:37] I'm a jerky boys kind of guy.

[00:16:39] That's crazy.

[00:16:39] And you know, the people that go all out are the people that fly the drones over the tri-state area.

[00:16:44] What the hell is going on with this?

[00:16:46] What is with that?

[00:16:47] I mean, remember a few years we had like that balloon thing that was going over.

[00:16:51] The Chinese balloon.

[00:16:52] Yeah.

[00:16:52] That was going over middle America, you know, stealing like, like, you know, some balloon that they got at a dollar store is stealing all of our national secrets.

[00:17:01] And now there's, there's, you know, people tell me that are like as large as cars.

[00:17:06] Is that true?

[00:17:07] I haven't watched any of this on the news.

[00:17:09] I have not either.

[00:17:10] I've seen pictures and they just look like a regular drone to me.

[00:17:14] A little small drone you can put in your backpack.

[00:17:17] $80 drone that you could tie maybe another blue light to and make it look like an airplane.

[00:17:25] Yeah.

[00:17:25] Wow.

[00:17:25] And you know, I just, I just wonder if these people down in the areas, the city areas have never walked outside and looked up and seen the 200,000 airplanes that fly over their heads every day.

[00:17:39] Yeah.

[00:17:39] Well, we're, we're on the flight path for Newark, but my wife tells me that locals in our area have been reporting on Facebook that they're seeing drones.

[00:17:50] Now, you know, I've gotten that to appear up here in upstate.

[00:17:53] But are these just people pulling everyone's leg?

[00:17:56] Is this just false reporting?

[00:17:58] That's what I think.

[00:17:59] Yeah.

[00:18:00] I have a feeling, you know, up in Delhi, Delhi of all places where there's a population of maybe like 800 per person said they're flying the drone.

[00:18:08] And I'm just like, you know, one of the funny thing is, is like, if you looked up at the moon, like there was a full moon recently and right to the right of it was Jupiter.

[00:18:17] And people are like, what the hell is that thing next to the moon?

[00:18:19] Is it a drone?

[00:18:20] I'm like, it's freaking Jupiter.

[00:18:22] Like, come on, like, it's not that difficult.

[00:18:24] Yeah.

[00:18:25] And then like, you know, I wonder, like, what will happen?

[00:18:29] Like, why can't we get the DEC to start snarking on these people that are flying these drones overhead like they do in, you know, over in the Catskills and the Adirondacks?

[00:18:39] Because they're pretty strict about that stuff.

[00:18:41] You say that, but when's the last time you saw somebody flying a drone in the Catskills?

[00:18:49] I've never seen them flying a drone.

[00:18:51] Never.

[00:18:52] Never.

[00:18:52] One time on Wittenberg, I was hiking in from Cornell and there was a guy there operating a drone.

[00:19:01] There was a bunch of different groups of hikers.

[00:19:03] And he was the only person that thought it was cool to have a drone on top of Wittenberg.

[00:19:11] So, and I've heard, you know, like places, of course, Catterskill Falls, of course, but that's a wilderness area.

[00:19:18] Yeah.

[00:19:19] And that quality, you can fly it from there.

[00:19:22] Yeah.

[00:19:23] Well, we heard from that fellow, the drone rescue guy that you can fly a drone over any airspace other than some restricted areas like over the White House, but you need to have constant visual contact with it.

[00:19:43] And you, I think in order, you're not allowed to launch or land your drone on state lands.

[00:19:50] Yeah.

[00:19:51] So how do you, so how do you get down into Catterskill Falls?

[00:19:55] I guess you have to launch your drone on the town road leading into, you know, on shut road, you would have to launch your drone up there and then have it walk along with you to fly along with you as you walk down.

[00:20:10] Yeah.

[00:20:10] Or you can like, what, what if you just jump in the air and catch it?

[00:20:15] Huh?

[00:20:16] Right.

[00:20:16] Probably probably a rule against that.

[00:20:18] Yeah.

[00:20:19] Yeah.

[00:20:19] It's, it's, it's, it's, is that with your backpack on or off?

[00:20:23] Right.

[00:20:23] It's, but you gotta be, if you have spikes, you're responsible.

[00:20:28] You're, you're good.

[00:20:28] You're good.

[00:20:29] You're like, okay, this guy is responsible.

[00:20:30] He can handle this.

[00:20:32] Yeah.

[00:20:32] It's just, it's just crazy to hear about this because, you know, like once again, like I've, I don't

[00:20:39] think I've ever heard or seen a drone when I've hiked in the Catskills, but you know, like me, you, you and me are like the people that stay off of those, those areas.

[00:20:47] Yeah.

[00:20:47] But you know, I've also been to the popular areas as well.

[00:20:50] Like, you know, Balsam Lake, any of the fire towers you think would be up there frequently.

[00:20:55] Yeah.

[00:20:55] You see every now and then you see somebody posts a picture that was obviously taken by a drone.

[00:20:59] So here, I'll ask you quite candidly.

[00:21:03] Have you ever thought about getting a drone and taking it out with you hiking?

[00:21:08] You're shrugging your shoulders.

[00:21:10] You're, you're thinking you're either just going to say yes and be honest, or you're going to deny that you've had those thoughts.

[00:21:18] It would be for my own personal, like, like happy, like not happiness, but you know, it would be pretty cool to see that, but I've never, I'm just like, my pictures are good enough.

[00:21:29] You know, would it be cool to see?

[00:21:31] I've already seen, you know, the fire towers from each perspective, you know, Catterfield falls from far away and stuff, you know, Steve Aaron takes photos that are just absolutely phenomenal to me that I just can't comprehend how awesome they are.

[00:21:45] And, but I've never thought of buying a, a, a drone and flying it over.

[00:21:49] They just seem inconvenient.

[00:21:52] Is that how they say it?

[00:21:53] It's just annoying.

[00:21:55] Yeah.

[00:21:56] I go hiking to get away from technology.

[00:21:58] Yeah.

[00:21:59] I don't want to, I don't want to have to deal with the drone, not working, crashing into something, you know, all that agita with the drone.

[00:22:06] Yeah.

[00:22:07] I had, I had, uh, uh, the ADK fun police on here while back.

[00:22:13] That was a while ago and they deal with that all the time.

[00:22:16] That's actually why they started was because of drones in the Adirondacks and somebody was like being funny about it.

[00:22:22] And he started the group and it was just, it's absolutely hilarious.

[00:22:25] And he does a great job of like, I hate to say being a snitch and getting people.

[00:22:31] Yeah.

[00:22:31] Well, he does a great job of ridiculing people and shaming them for.

[00:22:39] And then it connects.

[00:22:41] Everything connects and it all comes back.

[00:22:43] It's so good.

[00:22:45] It's so good.

[00:22:46] So if you see drones, let me know.

[00:22:48] Yeah.

[00:22:49] See a drone capture it and turn it into us.

[00:22:54] The one thing I'm, I heard instead of flying helicopters now to wind them high to wind them, they will be flying drones and people will be attached like suspenders, like the suspenders on there.

[00:23:04] So they can just like drop them at the top of the mountain and they can ski down.

[00:23:08] Yeah.

[00:23:09] Just like those red bull people on fricking helicopters.

[00:23:12] Yeah.

[00:23:12] Isn't that crazy what they do?

[00:23:14] It's absolutely insane.

[00:23:17] So, small talk.

[00:23:19] It's crazy.

[00:23:19] It's getting crazy.

[00:23:20] So, but we'll, we'll wrap it up.

[00:23:23] So once again, thank you to the monthly supporters, Chris Caribbean, Jeff Jotz.

[00:23:28] And thank you very much.

[00:23:29] New supporter, Darren White, Vicki Ferreira, Mike Sawatosky, John Comiskey, Summit speakers, Summit speakers, Betsy A, Denise Weiss, Tom H, Vanessa, Peggy, Jim C, Michael and Derek.

[00:23:42] Amazing support from the local community.

[00:23:46] Thank you guys very much for supporting the show.

[00:23:48] Really appreciate it.

[00:23:49] And they believe in so.

[00:23:51] Also sponsors.

[00:23:52] Thank you to outdoor Chronicles photography.

[00:23:55] So capture your love story against breathtaking backdrops with outdoor Chronicles photography.

[00:24:01] Molly specialized in adventure, open and adventure couple photography, and she'll immortalize your moments of miss the stunning landscapes of the Catskills Adirondacks and White Mountains.

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[00:24:15] Embark on an unforgettable photographic journey with outdoor Chronicles photography.

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[00:24:24] Also trailbound project.

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[00:24:53] They are out there for everything.

[00:24:56] So check out trailbound project.

[00:24:57] If you want to get your certification or any experiences all in the outdoor.

[00:25:04] So hard siders mentioned once again, Jeff shots.

[00:25:06] Thank you for being a supporter of the show.

[00:25:08] I do support the show.

[00:25:10] Once again, thank you for anybody who is a supporter of the show.

[00:25:13] Once again, kind of the Iowa, I will explain this.

[00:25:15] If you are a supporter of the show, if you donate to the show, the expenses will be covered.

[00:25:20] And then once again, almost everything else will be sent back into the Catskills.

[00:25:25] Looking to do a donation soon for the Catskills.

[00:25:28] Kind of for the new year.

[00:25:30] That'd be a great new year.

[00:25:31] Kind of New Year's present slash Christmas present.

[00:25:34] Yeah.

[00:25:34] Well, you, while you're on that topic, I did receive in the mail a solicitation to make a contribution to the Mike Hoodish Natural History Preserve, which I am going to do.

[00:25:50] And if you're looking for a worthy recipient of some excess cash that you have, send it their way.

[00:25:59] Yeah.

[00:26:00] Let me actually, good point.

[00:26:02] I'm going to be doing that as well.

[00:26:03] That's not going to be on behalf of the podcast.

[00:26:06] It's going to be on behalf of Jessica and I.

[00:26:09] I'll have to show you, Ted, my paintings from David.

[00:26:11] David Turan did that.

[00:26:13] Oh, really?

[00:26:13] Oh, yeah.

[00:26:14] He did.

[00:26:15] We purchased, I forgot how much we donated.

[00:26:17] We donated, I think it was like $200 and he did all four seasons.

[00:26:23] He did winter, summer, fall and spring.

[00:26:26] And it was absolutely phenomenal.

[00:26:28] I'll show you the picture later.

[00:26:29] Yeah.

[00:26:29] So what Stosh is referring to is Dave, who's part of the Mike Koodish Natural Preserve will, with the donation of $25 or more, do an original watercolor painting for you.

[00:26:46] So, so.

[00:26:48] Phenomenal.

[00:26:49] Yeah.

[00:26:50] It's a, look, eat without the painting.

[00:26:52] It's a worthwhile organization.

[00:26:56] I hiked with Mike and Dave this fall.

[00:27:01] And Dave was telling me about a lot of their programs they do during the summer for young people to get them involved with going outdoors and educating them about something as simple as a tree.

[00:27:18] Mushroom, anything like fungus.

[00:27:21] Yeah.

[00:27:21] They have a great program there and it's, you know, it's a worthwhile cause and Mike Koodish is just a phenomenal individual.

[00:27:29] So, yeah.

[00:27:30] Let's support him in the preserve.

[00:27:33] Yeah.

[00:27:34] I will tag that as well in the show notes because that's a great idea to donate.

[00:27:40] And those paintings are absolutely phenomenal.

[00:27:42] I will post that.

[00:27:44] Yeah.

[00:27:45] Absolutely phenomenal.

[00:27:46] I mean, you don't have to buy us a cider, a hard cider right now would be kind of an eggnog.

[00:27:51] I would think eggnog.

[00:27:52] And what is, what is your choice to go with an eggnog?

[00:27:54] Whiskey?

[00:27:56] I have never had eggnog.

[00:27:58] I just can't get past the name, the idea of like drinking raw egg or whatever it is now.

[00:28:05] Wow.

[00:28:05] That's disturbing.

[00:28:06] Yeah.

[00:28:08] Kick off the show.

[00:28:09] You're done.

[00:28:10] Yeah.

[00:28:10] That's all right, folks.

[00:28:11] Well, I'll see you on the trail.

[00:28:12] You won't have to listen to me anymore.

[00:28:14] I'll send you, I'll send you an eggnog so you can try it.

[00:28:17] So tags.

[00:28:19] So, uh, mentions Tom, who's who's outdoors, uh, when outside the line, he said he did Mount Tammany and Mount Mincy.

[00:28:27] Down in the Delaware water gap area.

[00:28:31] They looked phenomenal photos.

[00:28:32] Like the, the geological aspect of some of those photos was absolutely amazing.

[00:28:38] Yeah.

[00:28:39] Have you been nice?

[00:28:40] Some nice.

[00:28:41] Uh, yeah, I've actually, um, been down there riding a tandem bike with my one daughter.

[00:28:49] We did a lot of cycling down there and it's very interesting area.

[00:28:54] They, the one point in time, the federal government was going to put a dam there.

[00:28:58] Were you aware of that stash?

[00:29:00] Not all.

[00:29:01] Yeah.

[00:29:01] They were going to do this, uh, huge flood control project there.

[00:29:04] So in the sixties, they bought up all sorts of properties, presumably through eminent domain.

[00:29:11] No, no different than the city of New York did in the Catskills.

[00:29:14] And what makes it interesting today is when you drive through that area that the feds purchased, they never built the dam.

[00:29:22] Um, so you have all these houses that have been abandoned for 50 or 60 years.

[00:29:29] Wow.

[00:29:29] Right.

[00:29:29] And so it's almost like stepping back in time other than, you know, there's no old cars there and nothing's, you know, it's not like these farms are working or how people are living in the houses, but it's gives you a sense of what life was like in rural America on the East coast.

[00:29:48] And the sixties and before.

[00:29:50] So you tell me this was kind of like, uh, the reservoir days with us that they said they were going to shut it down.

[00:29:56] They made people move and then that's it.

[00:29:58] Correct.

[00:29:58] Yeah.

[00:29:59] Oh, wow.

[00:29:59] Yeah.

[00:30:00] Apparently, um, it was a long time ago.

[00:30:02] I did my, like looking into this, I'm not going to call it research, but, you know, Googling ad nauseum on this topic.

[00:30:10] And I think it was because they could not, were, were uncertain with respect to the dam, its footings and how well, or how poorly it would hold.

[00:30:23] So they abandoned the project, but apparently before they, well, not apparently they, they bought all these houses, kicked these people out of their homes.

[00:30:33] And that it's, it's, I'm not going to say it's the entire stretch, but it's, um, uh, kind of like from Dingman's fairy going down to the water gap.

[00:30:44] So, so Tom will listen to this and he will do some research for us.

[00:30:47] Please do.

[00:30:48] Yeah.

[00:30:49] He, Tom probably already knows, and he might be shaking his head on his way up to the Catskills to kick off his, his winter 3500 track and be saying, oh boy, this guy, he's something.

[00:31:01] He doesn't know about.

[00:31:02] Yeah.

[00:31:03] These information.

[00:31:04] That's out of our area.

[00:31:05] So we'll just get, we'll just get Tom on at the end of the winter.

[00:31:07] He can tell us about his winter trekking and the Delaware water gap.

[00:31:12] Yeah.

[00:31:14] So, uh, awesome.

[00:31:16] Thank you, Tom, for, uh, tagging the show.

[00:31:18] Once again, Julie and Jamie didn't tag the show.

[00:31:22] Yeah.

[00:31:22] Oh God.

[00:31:23] Uh, good times though.

[00:31:25] Uh, Jamie recently had some of his showing down in the Woodstock and we had.

[00:31:30] Uh, Kate, I believe, uh, went down there and watched it.

[00:31:35] So, uh, phenomenal time.

[00:31:36] I'll be down there in January at Hunter.

[00:31:39] I don't know if you're coming along, Tad and Hunter, New Paltz.

[00:31:43] You have that area down there.

[00:31:44] So maybe I'll, I'll show up.

[00:31:47] Um, I've, from what I've seen online, it's getting rave reviews.

[00:31:51] Yeah, definitely.

[00:31:52] Definitely.

[00:31:53] Hopefully.

[00:31:53] Uh, he will, he's kicking, kicking ax and taking names as Alex would say.

[00:31:58] Okay.

[00:31:59] So, uh, what's, uh, what, what you having the drink?

[00:32:03] Uh, I know you said it's no brew Tuesday, but, uh, I saw you during something.

[00:32:06] You're lying.

[00:32:07] Yeah.

[00:32:08] Well, all right.

[00:32:09] So I remember, uh, seems like months ago, but we had, um, uh, be from, uh, recovery hike

[00:32:19] on the show who reminds us that there's many people out there who, uh, have and are struggling

[00:32:27] and have overcome various addictions.

[00:32:29] So I decided that one Tuesday a month, I'm going to have no brew Tuesday.

[00:32:36] And so tonight I'm just drinking a flavored sparkling Italian water, non alcoholic.

[00:32:45] So I'm showing folks that yes, you can be a podcast rock star without drinking alcohol.

[00:32:56] Correct.

[00:32:58] Yeah.

[00:32:59] So thank you.

[00:33:00] That's awesome.

[00:33:00] Tuesdays.

[00:33:01] Yeah.

[00:33:02] I, on the other hand, am having a down east cider donut, hard cider is absolutely phenomenal.

[00:33:10] I don't know the alcohol content, but I love this bottle because you have to turn it up.

[00:33:15] I go upside down to read it.

[00:33:16] Oh, uh, it says we know this is upside down.

[00:33:20] Why?

[00:33:21] Because it's the best way to drink an unfiltered cider.

[00:33:25] Cool.

[00:33:26] Sounds delicious.

[00:33:27] Does it taste like a donut?

[00:33:28] Oh, it tastes phenomenal.

[00:33:30] Yeah.

[00:33:30] I'm so sad to see this going out, but you said that's a down east.

[00:33:34] Yeah.

[00:33:35] Good stuff.

[00:33:35] I'll have to, once again, I got to tag them.

[00:33:37] I get a lot of people tag.

[00:33:39] I'll go for our, our fastest show next week.

[00:33:42] I'll, I'll do a couple of hard ciders.

[00:33:45] Yeah.

[00:33:45] Go to Phoenicia and get that stuff.

[00:33:47] They probably have them there.

[00:33:48] Yeah.

[00:33:49] Well, I look, I got a place in town.

[00:33:50] That's got a lot of, uh, down east and awestruck.

[00:33:53] Oh, sweet.

[00:33:54] Nice.

[00:33:55] You got to tell Todd, Todd bold.

[00:33:57] Uh, where is that at?

[00:33:58] Where's that Ted?

[00:33:59] Todd bulls down in your area.

[00:34:01] So he wants to know when there's awestruck.

[00:34:03] Oh yeah.

[00:34:04] So, uh, yeah, right in pine bush, there's a beer world.

[00:34:09] There's also a beer world and middle town.

[00:34:12] There's a beer world and Monticello.

[00:34:15] There's a beer world here and there.

[00:34:18] I mean, they're all over the place.

[00:34:19] Oh yeah.

[00:34:19] I've seen the beer world and Monticello.

[00:34:21] Yeah.

[00:34:22] So, so the inside info on beer world, and I don't mean to defame or slander them, but in

[00:34:30] my opinion, we need to check what you buy.

[00:34:33] They're really, really close because a lot of the product I've found is outdated.

[00:34:40] Oh, no way.

[00:34:41] Yeah.

[00:34:42] So beer world won't really care for my podcast.

[00:34:45] Yeah.

[00:34:46] So the three listeners of ours, one of whom would actually go to a beer world.

[00:34:52] Don't buy the old stuff unless it's wine.

[00:34:55] Then, you know, that's a different story, but of course beers better drink fresh.

[00:35:01] So previous hikes, Ted, I have nothing.

[00:35:05] I, I've been working constantly.

[00:35:08] So, I mean, it's like, how do you work to work?

[00:35:11] Yeah.

[00:35:11] I guess it's the rush season for you.

[00:35:13] It is.

[00:35:14] It is unfortunately.

[00:35:15] So I, I, I looked to get out this Sunday.

[00:35:18] Like I'm looking, if anybody is thinking about doing something this Sunday, Ted, maybe,

[00:35:23] maybe you, I don't know.

[00:35:25] I got some, what are you thinking on Saturday?

[00:35:27] Let's talk this out right now.

[00:35:29] Well, Saturday I'll be working Sunday.

[00:35:30] I mean, on Sunday.

[00:35:31] So what are you thinking about on Sunday when it's supposed to be like single digits cold?

[00:35:35] Oh.

[00:35:36] Oh.

[00:35:37] Yeah.

[00:35:37] Well, so if, if this was, if tomorrow morning was Sunday morning, what, what are you game

[00:35:43] for?

[00:35:44] Hmm.

[00:35:46] Good question.

[00:35:47] Yeah.

[00:35:47] It's.

[00:35:47] Whatever is the windiest place possible so I can get the most wind chill.

[00:35:53] How about going someplace with water?

[00:35:56] Like do some blue lining?

[00:35:59] Ah, that'll be, I don't know.

[00:36:02] So you think about it.

[00:36:03] I'm, I was planning to do Saturday, but if you've got something interesting for Sunday,

[00:36:08] I'll, I'll talk to the missus.

[00:36:10] Anything interesting.

[00:36:12] Yeah.

[00:36:12] Some down east cider and donuts.

[00:36:15] Yeah.

[00:36:15] So what did you do this, uh, previous weekend?

[00:36:19] Yeah.

[00:36:20] You did something good.

[00:36:21] So I hooked up once again with Danny Davis and he and I, you know, had our, our game

[00:36:30] plan and we though on the fly, uh, as we were heading out from the parking area, uh,

[00:36:39] started changing our plans given the lack of snow at lower elevations and what we expected

[00:36:46] to find or not find at higher elevations.

[00:36:49] And we hiked a ridge to one of the high peaks in the Catskills.

[00:36:54] It was an untrailed hike to the summit.

[00:36:57] We took a trail over the next mountain and headed back down along a unmaintained kind of trail.

[00:37:05] I am deliberately not going to give out the location because let me tell you this hike entailed

[00:37:12] more rock outcroppings on a narrow ridge than I've encountered anywhere else in the Catskills.

[00:37:20] So, uh, it entailed a significant amount of thought and deliberation, how to safely get up and over these.

[00:37:31] And, um, I think the people that are listening to this, this podcast are going to actually take on this.

[00:37:39] Do I, I don't know.

[00:37:40] I mean, some look, this is a hike where I don't think this is a hike for somebody who's reasonably experienced in navigating, not compass navigation, but looking at a rock face and dissecting.

[00:37:58] How's the best way to get up and over it without technical equipment, because it entailed a significant portion of that.

[00:38:04] And I'll give you just one story.

[00:38:05] It's, I don't know, kind of funny.

[00:38:08] Um, but we, this was like the fourth or fifth one we hit as we came through the woods.

[00:38:15] There was this, uh, edge to edge of a narrow ridge, um, rock outcropping or rock wall.

[00:38:23] I should say, uh, that average probably from 10 to maybe nearly 30 feet high or higher, but it literally went to the edge.

[00:38:33] One edge to the other edge of the ridge.

[00:38:36] And there was no reasonably safe way to get up and over it.

[00:38:41] So, uh, we went to the left side and there's nothing down there.

[00:38:45] And the side of the slope was too steep to go around it.

[00:38:50] It was just not passable.

[00:38:51] So we went the other direction and lo and behold, what did we see?

[00:38:56] And then we went to the edge of the ridge, which is a good sign when you're trying to get up and over a rock wall.

[00:39:02] We saw a shoot.

[00:39:03] No, no, there was no shoots on this.

[00:39:05] I did post a picture of me in one of the shoots, a big wide shoot, but there was no shoots.

[00:39:10] There was nothing to work with, but we got down to the one side and we saw fresh bear tracks.

[00:39:16] Nice.

[00:39:17] Yeah.

[00:39:17] So when in doubt, just follow the bear tracks because the bear got up there somehow.

[00:39:23] So we go to the edge and the bear goes around the edge.

[00:39:26] But the problem is, is this rock wall like goes into the mountain, but it's protruding up high enough that you're going to have the rock wall on your left side.

[00:39:34] And then just this wicked slope to your right.

[00:39:38] That's just full of a lot of loose rock and debris and whatnot and snow and ice.

[00:39:44] But the good part was, is there was about four blow downs, big blow downs that had fallen on the top of the rock wall and were leaning down onto that slope.

[00:39:55] And so we were able to crawl under them.

[00:40:01] And for about the next 75 vertical feet going uphill, all I saw was Davis's boots.

[00:40:10] Nice.

[00:40:10] Yeah.

[00:40:11] And so, and the nice thing about is when you hit like a slick spot where things were giving away the blow down, which was up against your pack, kept you from sliding down the mountain.

[00:40:24] Yeah.

[00:40:25] So yeah, further up, further up, uh, when we encountered another one of these of many rock outcroppings or rock walls, uh, there was like one of these keyhole formations in the rocks where there was like two huge boulders and another boulder on top of it.

[00:40:41] So Davis was able to get through there.

[00:40:44] I didn't want to do another belly crawl.

[00:40:46] Like we had done further down the mountain.

[00:40:49] So I was able to find another way up and over, but it was just constantly.

[00:40:54] We on a five and a half mile hike, let's say 2.x miles of that was up that ridge.

[00:41:01] It took us four hours to get up the ridge because a lot of time you're just walking back and forth and analyzing different spots and whether or not you're going to be able to get up and over there or not get up and over there.

[00:41:15] And you know, once you start doing this, once you get up and over a few of them, there's really no turning back.

[00:41:20] Yeah.

[00:41:20] Right.

[00:41:21] So you're, you're committed and you need to make it.

[00:41:24] So we did, it was a good time.

[00:41:26] We had a lot of fun.

[00:41:26] We worked well together.

[00:41:29] And afterwards, afterwards we finished at Snyder's.

[00:41:36] Oh yeah.

[00:41:37] And we got, we kind of got sort of kicked out of Snyder's because they were having the sportsman's holiday party.

[00:41:43] Oh wow.

[00:41:43] Yeah.

[00:41:44] And I was surprised.

[00:41:44] I didn't see you pulling in for that stash.

[00:41:47] You're a sportsman.

[00:41:48] I thought you would have been hanging out at Snyder's, pulling down some cold hard ciders and hanging out with the gang.

[00:41:55] I'm too young.

[00:41:56] Too young.

[00:41:57] Telling, telling tall tales of the one that got away.

[00:42:00] You know, you talk about your little route that you took up and this is your first time going up that route.

[00:42:09] Nice.

[00:42:10] Yeah.

[00:42:10] So I have, I went up that route a while back and I have to say, this is one of the most memorable hikes that I've ever been on in the Catskills.

[00:42:21] Just ledge after ledge.

[00:42:23] I mean, at first you're, you're up a little bit and you're following kind of like a, an old herd path, an old Jeep trail or something like that.

[00:42:33] And then you hit that first.

[00:42:34] It's like a logging road.

[00:42:36] Yeah.

[00:42:36] Logging road.

[00:42:37] Yeah.

[00:42:37] And then you hit that first out rock outcropping and it ends and you're just like, yeah.

[00:42:43] And the forest change.

[00:42:44] Yeah.

[00:42:45] The forest changes right there.

[00:42:46] Right.

[00:42:47] We had.

[00:42:48] It's very abrupt.

[00:42:49] And you're in it.

[00:42:50] You're in the thick of it now.

[00:42:52] Yeah.

[00:42:52] It was phenomenal.

[00:42:53] I think our plan of the day was to go around the bowl of Wittenberg and to catch a viewpoint, but we just went, kept going up and it was ledge after ledge.

[00:43:04] Awesome client after awesome client, you know, little bit views here and there.

[00:43:09] And we didn't have snow like, like you did or something like that.

[00:43:13] But we hit once, once at the kind of near the top, we hit like one of those impassable areas.

[00:43:18] We're just like, all right.

[00:43:20] So what do we do from here?

[00:43:23] Do we kind of like, you had to scale.

[00:43:25] What we did is we scaled to the left of the area and kind of like hands and feet of just a little rock outcropping had to climb up.

[00:43:34] But once we hit that top part, we hit the top part of the mountain and you don't want to mention.

[00:43:40] So I won't mention it, but we had a phenomenal view to the south and it was just breathtaking.

[00:43:47] Yeah, I know that spot you're talking about and it's like that.

[00:43:51] And it's also when we hit that, Davis went to the left and reported back to me that it wasn't worth hitting to the left.

[00:44:01] We were about halfway up.

[00:44:03] I'm going to call it a rock problem.

[00:44:04] We were each about halfway up.

[00:44:06] He went over to the left.

[00:44:07] I decided to go over to the right.

[00:44:10] Each direction turned out to be equally punishing because the trees are so tight.

[00:44:18] Those dead branches are so like firm, you know, they're just like leaf springs on a vehicle.

[00:44:25] They just snap back on you.

[00:44:28] And it, you know, it was on the one hand, it, you, you mentally had to work that hike to figure out how to get over all that stuff.

[00:44:37] I mean, the orientation and direction of travel was easy.

[00:44:41] You're just going uphill on a narrow ridge, but the challenge was figuring out the safe ascent.

[00:44:50] And was it type two fun?

[00:44:53] That's my question.

[00:44:55] I don't even think it was type two.

[00:44:56] It was type one.

[00:44:57] Like I was just enjoying it the whole time.

[00:44:59] Yeah.

[00:45:00] Physically there wasn't really, I mean, it wasn't like in terms of distance or exertion.

[00:45:05] I think down was worse.

[00:45:06] Yeah.

[00:45:07] Well, I mean, we had the benefit of downhill.

[00:45:10] We had snow, so you can go downhill on that stuff.

[00:45:13] And the snow is a lot easier when there's no snow, but yeah, I, I definitely look forward

[00:45:19] to doing that again.

[00:45:21] And if you want to join in.

[00:45:23] Yeah.

[00:45:24] I would, I would do that.

[00:45:25] Not, not this Sunday though.

[00:45:26] I mean, I'm, I want to week off.

[00:45:28] Um, and I do have my, my, my little, my little bushwhacking tattoo from, from that episode.

[00:45:39] It's I'm not sure.

[00:45:41] I mean, I thought I was hit by a tree.

[00:45:43] I did get knocked out briefly.

[00:45:45] Davis.

[00:45:45] I saw afterwards was chasing after a mountain lion and it might be here.

[00:45:49] Yeah.

[00:45:50] Cause yeah.

[00:45:50] Cause that, it looks like a claw of a mountain lion on my forehead.

[00:45:54] I can see only Davis taking pictures of it and being like, Ooh, you got hit.

[00:45:59] Yeah.

[00:45:59] No, he, no, I'll send you the photo, but you can't post it.

[00:46:03] Oh, I won't.

[00:46:03] Of course.

[00:46:04] Of course.

[00:46:05] Yeah.

[00:46:05] So this, this route Ted talks about is one of the absolute stunning route.

[00:46:10] And of course it, I mean, we're not going to mention it.

[00:46:13] And I did this a while back with my buddy, James Hobson.

[00:46:17] I don't know.

[00:46:17] You're, I don't know if you're, you're not a Facebook guy.

[00:46:20] So James, uh, if you got on Facebook, he is one of the true amazing Catskill bushwhackers.

[00:46:27] He has done anything and everything, you know, Danny, I think would have a great time with James

[00:46:31] because he is doing the, he's blue lining and he has done everything and everything blue

[00:46:37] line.

[00:46:37] Uh, we're talking about not even the 3,500, but the 200, the a hundred highest stuff like

[00:46:43] that.

[00:46:43] He is Blenheim and he's down in Peekamoose Valley.

[00:46:47] He is over in the Western Catskills of Candaceville.

[00:46:50] And he is just, he's insane.

[00:46:53] So we did that.

[00:46:53] And of course his knowledge of coming up to this outcrop and be like, wow, look at this,

[00:47:00] his enthusiasm.

[00:47:01] It just, you know, you're, you're tired and stuff, but his enthusiasm is just like, all

[00:47:06] right.

[00:47:07] If this guy, you know, can, can be excited that I can as well.

[00:47:12] And well, but then is that enthusiasm because he's fallen on his head so many times.

[00:47:16] He's just not grounded.

[00:47:18] James is, is, you know, I've done several hikes with him that have been absolutely insane.

[00:47:23] You know, uh, going from Woodland Valley up to slide up that out, that, that ridge that

[00:47:29] John Burroughs did, uh, just ledge after ledge precipice as he said, precipice after precipice.

[00:47:36] And, uh, you know, I don't know.

[00:47:40] It just, the route you took was absolutely phenomenal.

[00:47:42] And we'll, well, hopefully if you, if you're looking for, uh, send a message to us privately

[00:47:47] and maybe.

[00:47:48] Yeah.

[00:47:49] Yeah.

[00:47:49] I'll share it to you.

[00:47:50] Yeah.

[00:47:50] And we're also look, we're Stosh is planning some, uh, listener hikes.

[00:47:55] Oh yeah.

[00:47:56] So we'll, we can turn you onto some good stuff.

[00:47:59] Merch and listener hikes.

[00:48:01] Maybe we'll have a get together one time when we'll just do a group hike and we'll get like

[00:48:04] 35 people going up.

[00:48:05] Yeah.

[00:48:06] I think, I think what we should do is we should have a, uh, group bushwhack around the perimeter

[00:48:13] of Snyder's.

[00:48:16] Yeah.

[00:48:17] Or we should have like a group to get together, taking out all the, all the vines out of Snyder's.

[00:48:22] Yeah.

[00:48:22] We'll bring, we'll bring in Matt Smith with his chainsaw, but whoever, whoever, yeah.

[00:48:27] Whoever can navigate up and over the front porch and get into Snyder's wins the prize.

[00:48:32] Yeah.

[00:48:33] You get the golden beer pack of hard ciders.

[00:48:36] Yeah.

[00:48:37] Yeah.

[00:48:38] So volunteer, uh, 3500 club Catskill trail crew, Catskill mountains club, uh, visitors

[00:48:43] center, Catskill visitor center, Jellarua, Shurku building mountain fire tower.

[00:48:48] Uh, any place you can, uh, donate your time would be absolutely phenomenal.

[00:48:52] Uh, if you need stickers, let me know.

[00:48:54] Once again, I'm getting merged together.

[00:48:56] If you have a t-shirt size, let me know.

[00:48:58] So I can gauge t-shirt sizes in order of the appropriate amount with everybody.

[00:49:04] Uh, weather forecasts.

[00:49:06] Ted, you mentioned cold weather.

[00:49:08] It looks like it's coming.

[00:49:09] I mean, we have a bunch of weird weather right now on Tuesday.

[00:49:12] It's around 45 degrees, uh, here in Oneonta.

[00:49:17] So, uh, it's, it's been weird.

[00:49:20] The snow has been melting, but I'm not sure about what's going on in the mountains.

[00:49:24] Yeah.

[00:49:24] So we had, uh, snow here in the Hudson Valley on Monday.

[00:49:28] I had a blow about four plus inches out of the driveway.

[00:49:32] Wow.

[00:49:33] And yeah.

[00:49:33] And as of Tuesday night, it's 80% melted.

[00:49:38] Oh, wow.

[00:49:39] Yeah.

[00:49:39] But I'll say, are you going to look at, uh, summit forecast mountain forecast for some weather conditions?

[00:49:48] Think it moves.

[00:49:48] Yeah.

[00:49:49] Okay.

[00:49:50] Yeah.

[00:49:51] So I'll pull it up too.

[00:49:53] I w I just want to qualify this by saying my experience with these forecasts all season is they're easily running 10 degrees colder than what it actually is.

[00:50:06] Correct.

[00:50:06] But this, this weekend is not a weekend that you want to add 10 degrees to what they forecast and be wrong.

[00:50:14] Yeah.

[00:50:15] This weekend is a no fuck around weekend.

[00:50:17] Yeah.

[00:50:17] Yeah.

[00:50:18] Not to say that.

[00:50:18] Yeah.

[00:50:19] We're throwing out some fancy terminology there, but I'm sure you can figure, figure it out.

[00:50:23] Would you call it against Josh?

[00:50:25] And don't fuck around weekend.

[00:50:26] Yeah.

[00:50:27] No fuck around weekend.

[00:50:28] So Friday we have a cloudiness.

[00:50:32] Uh, and then later at night, uh, we have snow showers with a possibility of one to two inches, maybe high of 21, a low of zero.

[00:50:40] And then we get into Saturday, Saturday cloudy with some clouds, most with sunny skies here and there.

[00:50:48] Uh, a high of 12, a low of negative 18 wind chill.

[00:50:54] So we have 20 to 35 mile per hour winds that will add to the amazing wind chill.

[00:50:59] This is my kind of weather Sunday looks to be clear.

[00:51:02] Once again, this is, uh, this is from Tuesday.

[00:51:05] So we're looking a little bit ahead of time.

[00:51:08] Uh, it says winds around 25 miles per hour, a high of 10 and a low of negative 11.

[00:51:16] That's in the morning.

[00:51:17] It gets a little bit warmer during the day, but not much.

[00:51:20] So maybe.

[00:51:21] So if you're, if you're at the, uh, the trailhead on Saturday or Sunday, the low ambient temperature is generally in the single digits, both days.

[00:51:35] Uh, what are you wearing for pants?

[00:51:38] You're wearing a base layer and then, uh, a pant?

[00:51:41] A base layer.

[00:51:41] Yeah.

[00:51:41] And then in kind of like a windbreaker pant.

[00:51:43] I will start off with that.

[00:51:45] Like more of a hard, a hard shell or a soft shell pant?

[00:51:49] Uh, hard shell.

[00:51:50] I usually go with hard shell with this.

[00:51:52] When we're going down below 15 degrees, I will do a hard shell and a base layer underneath that kind of like a moisture wicking, uh, like tights.

[00:52:04] I would say that's what a lot of people don't know that it's moisture wicking tights.

[00:52:08] Okay.

[00:52:09] Not like that.

[00:52:10] Like, uh, what do they call it?

[00:52:12] That you're at home.

[00:52:13] What do you wear at home with?

[00:52:15] I'm sorry.

[00:52:15] The old people wear at home.

[00:52:17] Long John's long John's.

[00:52:19] Yeah.

[00:52:19] I don't want those anymore.

[00:52:21] Yeah.

[00:52:21] Yeah.

[00:52:22] Unless you want to die.

[00:52:23] Yeah.

[00:52:24] Once you're on a suicide mission.

[00:52:26] Yeah.

[00:52:26] You'll definitely freeze out there.

[00:52:28] You'll stand there at the, at the trail junction for five minutes and your legs will freeze and you'll be dead.

[00:52:32] Well, you know, you, you, the thing is, is you get out of the car, it's going to be a little warmer.

[00:52:37] One of the things I do is I, I turn off my heat, you know, the last half hour or so, um, to get, to start getting, you know, adjusted and you get more adjusted driving in the Jeep with the soft top.

[00:52:50] Cause it's like riding around in the tent.

[00:52:52] Um, but yeah, it's, I think it's really important this weekend with these cold ambient temperatures to get your, your, what's on your legs dialed in.

[00:53:03] Cause it's harder to change the further you get up the mountain.

[00:53:07] Yeah.

[00:53:08] And you know, once again, be bold, start cold.

[00:53:11] That's the whole terminology.

[00:53:14] Uh, I wouldn't layer up as soon as I get there, but you know, you're, you're cold as you, you get going.

[00:53:19] But once you start getting into elevation, you'll start getting more heat and you'll sweat.

[00:53:23] And then once again, your, your clothes will sweat, you'll take off and then you'll freeze.

[00:53:27] So yeah, kind of just let that perspirate a little and be a little bit colder.

[00:53:32] And then once you stop layer up a little bit, get warm, get going, layer down.

[00:53:37] It's, it's a, it's a, it's a crazy mechanism that you have to get used to.

[00:53:42] You got to test and it, it sucks, but it's, it's, it's also a phenomenal, it's a, it's a great feeling.

[00:53:49] Well, it's, it's part of being in touch with yourself.

[00:53:51] It's kind of like having an old car.

[00:53:52] You got to know whether you run hot or you run cold and adjust accordingly.

[00:53:58] And I think one of the important things is if you are perspiring on the uphill, um, a delayer and B throttle back, slow down.

[00:54:10] I mean, you might have the physical ability to hike harder, but if you're starting to perspire, you're generating a lot of sweat.

[00:54:18] You need to throttle back because once you summit and you have all that moisture, you can't go uphill any further to warm up again.

[00:54:27] You're now going to be either on a long traverse, uh, presumably in the wind because you're at the top of the mountain or like, if you're going across plateau and the winds coming in, you know, there's other than the trees breaking it, there's no place really to get cover from it.

[00:54:44] So you're going to chill up or layer up, you know, and, and anticipate that shift.

[00:54:52] Yeah.

[00:54:52] But it'll be a fun weekend.

[00:54:54] It'll be a real winter weekend.

[00:54:57] Yeah.

[00:54:57] Start a winter.

[00:54:58] Ice spikes.

[00:55:00] I would say you bring your spikes, bring your snowshoes, just in case I highly doubt you'll need snowshoes.

[00:55:06] There's nothing coming along, but yeah, I think with, with these hard temp, with these super cold temperatures and, and how packed in everything is.

[00:55:14] If you're on trail, I don't think you're going to need snowshoes.

[00:55:18] Yeah.

[00:55:19] You, you might need, you know, some really, really meaty spikes because you could run into some significant ice.

[00:55:27] Certainly don't go up there with your rock spikes, you know, something that's ground down from a couple of years of, you know, hiking on the rocks.

[00:55:35] Cause yeah, then you just might as well be bare booting around, but have, have some hill sounds or better.

[00:55:43] Yeah.

[00:55:43] Yeah.

[00:55:44] K-10s.

[00:55:45] Yeah, definitely.

[00:55:46] So once again, have fun this weekend, get out, enjoy the weather, the cold weather.

[00:55:51] Yeah.

[00:55:52] So we'll get last set of sponsors and then we'll go into our guests of the night.

[00:55:56] That sound good?

[00:55:57] Awesome.

[00:55:58] Awesome.

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[00:57:29] All right.

[00:57:30] So let's welcome the guests of the night.

[00:57:35] This is Ava from Tri-State Hikers.

[00:57:38] So Ava has a group known for bringing up people from the city in the Tri-State City area up to the Catskills Hudson Valley area,

[00:57:49] bringing them out to nature and having them introduce nature hikes for the first time.

[00:57:54] And, you know, Ava, I started following your stuff and it's absolutely phenomenal.

[00:57:58] It's great what you're doing.

[00:58:01] Thank you.

[00:58:02] And, you know, are you having a good time doing it?

[00:58:05] Oh, yeah, I love it.

[00:58:08] It's been 10 years and I can't believe it still.

[00:58:11] Wow.

[00:58:12] And I'm still friends with the people that started out with me.

[00:58:15] So it's been an amazing journey.

[00:58:17] There's never a point where I thought, like, I don't want to do this anymore.

[00:58:21] Like, yeah, I'm having a lot of fun with it.

[00:58:25] And that's what it's all about.

[00:58:28] Yes.

[00:58:29] So why don't you give a little background about yourself?

[00:58:31] You can go as far back as you want to, as current as you want.

[00:58:35] It doesn't just have to be about the Tri-State.

[00:58:37] You can be like, how are you introduced into hiking and stuff like that?

[00:58:41] So I'm originally from the island of St. Vincent and the Grenadines in the Caribbean.

[00:58:48] And I was born to a Kalinaga woman who is a native indigenous of the island and an African man.

[00:58:57] So that fusion created a race of people called the Garifunas.

[00:59:01] So I'm actually a Garifuna from St. Vincent.

[00:59:05] I'm from a fishing and farming village.

[00:59:09] So most of my life was spent outdoors for fun and for survival.

[00:59:17] Like we hunt, we fish.

[00:59:19] So I grew up outside being outdoors with all of my family and it was fun.

[00:59:26] And from there, I came to America, went to high school, didn't like it, went back home.

[00:59:34] Because for me, like a country girl, like they say, it was a different space.

[00:59:38] And I was not comfortable.

[00:59:41] Like there was not as much freedom as I grew up with.

[00:59:44] Like we'll leave home in the morning, go swimming for the whole day and then come back home.

[00:59:51] Like that kind of freedom.

[00:59:52] Like I missed that.

[00:59:54] So I went back home.

[00:59:55] And a few years later, I started work with a cruise line where I traveled the world working with Norwegian Cruise Line.

[01:00:04] Then my son brought me back here when I had my son.

[01:00:08] So I came back to the US and I still had that yearning for the outdoors to get out.

[01:00:16] And I started off walking in Prospect Park.

[01:00:21] So I started a group called Let's Walk Prospect Park.

[01:00:25] And my friends started with me.

[01:00:27] And after seeing other pictures on social media of others going further, like into the Hudson Valley and the Catskills, I was curious.

[01:00:36] So my curiosity is what took me further from the Brooklyn area.

[01:00:43] So that's like how I got into hiking here.

[01:00:47] And as you like, you kind of progressed from the like the Brooklyn area up to the Hudson Valley and up to Catskills eventually?

[01:00:55] Yes.

[01:00:56] So after I started going online looking like where can I get out where more?

[01:01:02] I don't like to see buildings.

[01:01:04] I love to see trees.

[01:01:06] I only want to see trees.

[01:01:08] Don't take me where I'm going to see buildings.

[01:01:10] So I started looking on Instagram and I found a couple of groups that I was comfortable with.

[01:01:17] There was women who hike New York, women who hike Jersey.

[01:01:22] And I just kind of have what we call back home mountain fever.

[01:01:26] And I just wanted to get out there.

[01:01:28] So I would join these groups for a hike and share my pictures and my friends would see it in real life.

[01:01:35] Oh, I want to go there too.

[01:01:37] I can't believe this is here.

[01:01:38] And what I love most about it is just when I take a lot of my hikers are from the Caribbean.

[01:01:45] And when we do these hikes, it's like nostalgic.

[01:01:49] Everyone remembers, you know, we used to do this back home.

[01:01:52] Like this was so much fun.

[01:01:54] And this, this is still fun, you know?

[01:01:56] And I think that's the connection that kept us together for all these years that,

[01:02:02] that yearning for getting outside.

[01:02:05] And, you know, that's what we did as kids and as adults, life gets so complicated that, you know, we lose track of time and places.

[01:02:15] And, you know, so getting outdoors with like-minded people is one of the major attractions for Tri-State hikers.

[01:02:25] So we, I did a group hike with, which I just opened up to anyone who wanted to come.

[01:02:31] And one of the guys from Jersey was like asking where everyone's from.

[01:02:36] And we had people from Connecticut, New Jersey, Brooklyn.

[01:02:40] And he was like, they should be called Tri-State hikers.

[01:02:42] Cause there's everyone from the Tri-State here.

[01:02:45] So that's how the name was, um, came up.

[01:02:49] And you just like, out of nowhere said that, like, hey, like let's start this group.

[01:02:54] And then it blossomed 10 years ago, 10 years.

[01:02:56] I didn't know it was 10 years ago.

[01:02:58] That's awesome.

[01:02:59] Yes.

[01:02:59] It was.

[01:03:01] I'm not, I'm still trying to get used to social media.

[01:03:06] So, um, usually I will post on Facebook for my friends.

[01:03:11] I kind of withdraw and then I'm now on Instagram.

[01:03:15] So, and I post my pictures, people would randomly reach out to me.

[01:03:19] And I, I've kept Tri-State hikers free.

[01:03:23] Like you don't have to, there's not a fee to sign up to join these hikes because, um,

[01:03:29] I want it to be accessible for everyone.

[01:03:32] Um, and I didn't want money to be the reason why anyone couldn't join us.

[01:03:37] So, um, our hikes are free.

[01:03:41] So people, we meet up at a certain spot, uh, and we all go hiking together.

[01:03:47] Uh, now after, after five years, I started like a community on an app called the band.

[01:03:54] So that's a place where my hikers hang out.

[01:03:57] And if you're interested in joining Tri-State hikers, that's, that's where you kind of like

[01:04:01] get all the, um, the schedules of the hikes now.

[01:04:06] Cause we've grown so big and I'm only one person.

[01:04:10] So I have to kind of make it a way where I can accommodate people.

[01:04:18] Yeah.

[01:04:18] So the group Tri-State hikers, you want to just, uh, explain a little bit about, about that,

[01:04:23] like kind of like the history and then what it is now.

[01:04:26] Um, so three years ago, um, uh, a lot of the members who are regular hikers, um, thought,

[01:04:35] um, we should form it into like a nonprofit.

[01:04:38] And one of the things that we all agreed on was, um, this, this is a community that helps, um, with mental health, um, support.

[01:04:52] Like we support each other.

[01:04:54] Um, we do a lot of sunrises and sunset and they're usually about meditations and stuff like that.

[01:05:01] So, um, we started a nonprofit and, um, it's all about, uh, mental health awareness, promoting mental health awareness through outdoor activities.

[01:05:12] Where we do, uh, backpacking.

[01:05:15] Um, we did last year, we did rock climbing for the first time.

[01:05:19] It kind of like takes a lot of people out of their comfort zone.

[01:05:23] Um, I've, I've introduced so many people to camping through tri-state hikers as a form of like, um, a retreat where you, you get to, um, get away from the city and get out into nature, um, and just kind of do a mental detox.

[01:05:43] So, um, yeah, that's what we're all about.

[01:05:47] Mental health awareness through outdoor activities.

[01:05:51] Awesome.

[01:05:53] So Ava, if you could, why don't you tell us in a little more detail, what are the types of events you've mentioned?

[01:06:00] Backpacking, uh, hikes.

[01:06:02] Can you give us a little more flavor of what's going on with those?

[01:06:05] So we do, um, weekly hikes.

[01:06:08] We literally hike every Sunday, like literally.

[01:06:12] It's, I, they say like, it's a religion.

[01:06:15] People go to church, we go to the mountains.

[01:06:17] So we literally hike every weekend and it kind of mix it up where I would, um, most of our winters are usually like sunrise and sunset.

[01:06:27] And our summers will be like waterfall trekking and our camping trips.

[01:06:31] So beginners, I did, I did say we started rock climbing last year.

[01:06:36] So, and then we start, I started backpacking because people are curious about the way I started backpacking and wanted to do it.

[01:06:45] And was kind of like, um, scared to try it.

[01:06:48] So every year for the past three years.

[01:06:52] Yeah.

[01:06:52] Ava, why don't you tell us how you, you started backpacking and what got you enthused about it and turn, turned other people onto your backpacking experience.

[01:07:02] So I started backpacking with girl got a hike with Melissa.

[01:07:06] Um, I used to do her weekly hikes.

[01:07:09] Uh, we met.

[01:07:11] Oh, probably five years ago.

[01:07:13] And, um, I started doing her hikes.

[01:07:15] And one of the things that I really loved about her community was I had a son and if I didn't have a babysitter and I couldn't, I mean, I couldn't join the hike.

[01:07:25] And she allowed me to bring my son with, to come on the hiking trip.

[01:07:30] So that was really, really important to me.

[01:07:32] Um, so, and, um, from talking to her, I did one of her backpacking trips in 2021, I believe.

[01:07:42] And man, I just couldn't believe like this was possible.

[01:07:46] Like I was blown away about just being disconnected from everything and just immersing myself into nature.

[01:07:55] Was that your first backpacking trip ever?

[01:07:59] Yeah.

[01:08:00] And it was in the cast skills and it was in the fall and it was beautiful.

[01:08:05] Like I couldn't believe like the casket existed.

[01:08:10] Like I didn't know much about the cast skills.

[01:08:12] So Melissa actually introduced me to the cast skills and I fell in love with the cast skills.

[01:08:17] If I could live there, I would.

[01:08:19] So, um, my first backpacking trip, I did Thomas Cole, Blackhead and Black Dome.

[01:08:27] Like right off the bat.

[01:08:29] Wow.

[01:08:29] It was tough.

[01:08:31] There was a lot of support and you know, Melissa is a great guide and that's where it started for me.

[01:08:39] Nice.

[01:08:40] That I gotta admit that's how old was your son at the time?

[01:08:43] That's, that's pretty awesome.

[01:08:45] My son started hiking when he was two years old.

[01:08:48] Wow.

[01:08:49] And, um, he still hikes.

[01:08:52] He, he, he loves the winter more though than the summers.

[01:08:56] Wow.

[01:08:58] That makes two of us.

[01:08:59] Yeah.

[01:09:00] You said you hike every Sunday.

[01:09:02] Every Sunday.

[01:09:04] Is there more than one group going out each Sunday or is there just one main group?

[01:09:09] So, uh, as a license guide, I now do only, um, 15 max.

[01:09:15] So people are allowed to sign up and the groups are 15.

[01:09:18] Try to say hackers now have two other, um, license guide, New York state guides.

[01:09:24] So if two guides are available, we'll, we'll probably get to like 17 as the max, but we try to keep it at 15, um, for our weekly hikes.

[01:09:35] Uh, and I think we're, uh, in the past it was bigger groups, but they were like more complicated.

[01:09:39] And I've realized that for like safety reasons, it's important that we, we kind of have a set number of hikes per week.

[01:09:49] And that gives everyone an opportunity to join.

[01:09:52] And so if you have 15 to 17 people going out each Sunday, overall, how many active members do you have?

[01:10:01] Uh, our band app, we have 253.

[01:10:07] Wow.

[01:10:07] Members on there.

[01:10:09] Um, people kind of rotate within seasons.

[01:10:13] Like I have people who only hike in the summer, who would only hike in the fall and who would only hike in the winter.

[01:10:20] So I kind of have a crew for each season.

[01:10:23] So each season, I know like there's a certain crew that's going to come out.

[01:10:27] And, um, for the backpacking trips, I know there's a certain set of people that will come out for the trips.

[01:10:33] So it kind of, it's, it's easier that way where everyone gets a chance to get out.

[01:10:41] Yeah.

[01:10:42] If I have a hike where there's more people interested, we'll do like twice the month, the same hike where it gives other people opportunities to get on the hike.

[01:10:53] Awesome.

[01:10:53] Congratulations on being a guy.

[01:10:55] That's that's a New York state license guy.

[01:10:57] That's, that's a great course.

[01:10:59] And it's a tough course to, to, to get going.

[01:11:01] So good.

[01:11:01] Awesome.

[01:11:02] That's great.

[01:11:03] Thank you.

[01:11:04] Melissa was the one that pushed me, um, to become a guide.

[01:11:08] Cause I love this so much.

[01:11:10] I wanted it to be a hobby.

[01:11:12] Um, something that I just do.

[01:11:14] And she's like, you're great at this.

[01:11:16] Everyone is like, you're great at this.

[01:11:17] You should get your license.

[01:11:19] But I also love people.

[01:11:21] So, um, that made it easier too.

[01:11:23] And, um, I dragged my feet on becoming a guide for about two years.

[01:11:30] Cause I wanted to make sure that this is what I really want to do.

[01:11:34] And I want to be able to, um, have the skills and the knowledge to help in, in cases like emergencies, um, in different seasons.

[01:11:43] So I wanted to be prepared where as a guide, I know exactly what I'm doing.

[01:11:49] Yeah, definitely.

[01:11:51] That's, that's fantastic.

[01:11:52] So.

[01:11:52] Mm hmm.

[01:11:53] One of the questions I have is I, I gather that you're down in one of the boroughs.

[01:11:59] Yeah.

[01:11:59] I'm in Brooklyn.

[01:12:00] Okay.

[01:12:01] So, uh, how was it you get up to these places to go hiking, whether it's Harriman, uh, the Catskills or someplace else?

[01:12:10] Do you folks carpool?

[01:12:11] Yeah, we do a lot of carpools or we will do a rented van.

[01:12:17] And I've been blessed with some amazing people who are willing to do crazy stuff when I say, let's do this.

[01:12:24] So our trips, when you see us in the Catskills, wake up call is at three 30 AM.

[01:12:32] Wow.

[01:12:32] Nice.

[01:12:33] Is that four AM?

[01:12:36] We should be in new calls about five 30 AM.

[01:12:39] Like everything is on the clock.

[01:12:42] We should be in the Catskills about six 37 AM and we should be done hiking by 11 AM.

[01:12:49] Wow.

[01:12:50] That's my type of day.

[01:12:52] Yes.

[01:12:54] Like when you see us in the Catskills, that's like how, how we hike in the Catskills.

[01:13:00] Like the time, like, yeah.

[01:13:03] And everyone's down for it.

[01:13:05] Like, that's great.

[01:13:07] Paul is at three 30.

[01:13:08] Yeah.

[01:13:09] Um, so we meet at four and then we head out, we do a meetup in new Paul.

[01:13:14] So everybody's together.

[01:13:15] All the cars are together.

[01:13:17] We make another stop at Stewart shop where all the vans are together.

[01:13:21] Everyone's, you know, driving together because self-service.

[01:13:26] So, um, we all meet again for a second time real quick.

[01:13:31] Anyone can drop, like grab coffee or anything.

[01:13:34] And then we hit the trailhead.

[01:13:35] There's been times we'll hit the trailhead in the Catskill at like 7 AM.

[01:13:41] Nice.

[01:13:43] Yeah.

[01:13:44] Awesome.

[01:13:45] It's great.

[01:13:46] It's mostly like carpool.

[01:13:47] Do you have any people like travel the Metro rail and stuff like that?

[01:13:51] When we do our weekly hikes in the Hudson Valley, we do use the Metro not a lot.

[01:13:55] But when we're going further up into the Catskills, we do a carpool because it's much easier that way.

[01:14:01] Yeah.

[01:14:02] To get to the Catskills.

[01:14:04] Um, sometimes when we do like mini wasco, we'll take the trailway bus to New Pals and then we'll taxi over.

[01:14:10] And, and there's no like fee to, to participate in this.

[01:14:15] So you're only asking for like donations.

[01:14:18] Yeah.

[01:14:18] Um, so we try stay hikers.

[01:14:21] We try to get the kids involved because a lot of the hikers have kids.

[01:14:24] Um, so, uh, we started a yearly thing where we'll take the kids on, um, a seasonal hike, either spring or fall or summer.

[01:14:33] We'll provide food transportation.

[01:14:36] Um, so, uh, my hikers, uh, and supporters and friends would donate to, um, the nonprofit.

[01:14:43] So we can have those types of events.

[01:14:45] We were able to have like a backpacking trip, um, with the kids, uh, two years ago.

[01:14:51] That was great, but it's transportation is mainly on a main issue.

[01:14:58] Um, with, when it comes to like taking the kids out, um, of the house of the Halloween.

[01:15:05] So because of size or something, or is what is because of size or location?

[01:15:11] It's location costs and also the comfort level of the parents.

[01:15:16] Um, knowing that we're probably going to be just like an hour away or so.

[01:15:21] We've had a, uh, issue one.

[01:15:23] So we went to Minnawaska, the van broke down.

[01:15:25] We all had to get on the bus.

[01:15:28] The kids got home really late in the night.

[01:15:30] So it's, you know, it's, it's been tough to navigate that, but we try to do at least one kids hike per year.

[01:15:38] Where we take, we cover all the expenses of like rental vans, food, um, any gears or stuff that the kids would need and take them out on a day hike.

[01:15:51] Ava, you mentioned the hikes are free.

[01:15:53] Do you charge a membership fee, like an annual dues fee?

[01:15:57] No, I haven't gotten around to that yet because I'm like a one person.

[01:16:04] Yeah.

[01:16:05] Um, yeah.

[01:16:07] So I haven't, we started it once and there are members who still would just, um, when we have our trips, they'll just go to the website and just donate.

[01:16:16] Like we, I have a lot of members who do that, but I didn't want to, um, hold anyone to like a monthly fee or yearly fee.

[01:16:27] Um, until I kind of figure it out, like how to navigate that.

[01:16:32] Yeah.

[01:16:33] Ava, I'll talk to you about, about that afterwards.

[01:16:35] I'll cut this part out, but I'll talk to you about a thought.

[01:16:39] Okay.

[01:16:39] Um, go ahead, Ted.

[01:16:41] So Ava, when you mentioned hiking with kids is a father of two daughters that, uh, ran a rather extensive dad adventure program for them.

[01:16:54] Get getting gear was a big issue.

[01:16:56] You know, you buy something for your daughter this fall.

[01:16:59] She grows, she grows out of it by springtime, you know?

[01:17:02] And so does your group have a gear exchange, gear donation, any program like that?

[01:17:09] So we have a gear closet and we have like an Amazon wishlist where if you go to our, um, Instagram, you can click that link.

[01:17:18] It takes you to the Amazon wishlist where we post the gears that we need.

[01:17:23] Um, we have a glare closet where I have, um, people in the hiking community will donate.

[01:17:30] Um, even my hikers like have an extra pair of this, extra pair of that.

[01:17:34] Um, you can put it in a closet for the kids.

[01:17:37] So, um, that has really helped over the years where the actual members support the actual closet where they'll bring extra gears and, um, donate gears for us to able to host these kids every year.

[01:17:52] That's very cool.

[01:17:53] And maybe I'll go through, uh, some of the, uh, older stuff I have for my daughters and, uh, I'll send it down to you.

[01:18:01] Cause I know I still have a box somewhere.

[01:18:04] How about merch?

[01:18:05] Do you have any, like any t-shirts, hats, you know, swag for sale for the members and others?

[01:18:10] Any cool stuff like that?

[01:18:11] Yeah.

[01:18:12] Every year we do the t-shirts, the tri-state hikers, our color is orange.

[01:18:16] So we like you to see us from afar.

[01:18:18] So that's gonna say, so they don't get shot in the woods.

[01:18:21] Yeah.

[01:18:21] Yeah.

[01:18:22] And you know, um, that was one of the things recently in our last hike, I was like, everyone was like in the, in the chat was like, make sure y'all wearing your orange.

[01:18:31] Cause you know, we can be, um, hunters, hunters pray.

[01:18:37] So that was kind of like funny where everyone was like, yeah, we got our orange sweaters.

[01:18:42] So, yeah.

[01:18:43] I mean, the, the sad thing is, is that there are, I mean, there are good, uh, hunters out there and there are bad hunters that'll see something move and shoot at it.

[01:18:51] So we, we try to wear our orange out there when we're hikers and stuff like that.

[01:18:55] Just to, just to, it's so, it's so sad to say that it's just like, come on.

[01:18:59] Like, yeah, we met some hunters when we were doing bear, um, going up bear pen, um, area recently.

[01:19:07] That's a notorious place for hunters.

[01:19:10] Yeah.

[01:19:10] We all know those hunters.

[01:19:12] I was sort of chased by one on an ATV a few weeks ago.

[01:19:16] So it's all free game.

[01:19:18] Yeah.

[01:19:20] Yeah.

[01:19:21] Yeah.

[01:19:21] We, we all were wearing orange.

[01:19:23] So that was a good thing.

[01:19:25] Excellent.

[01:19:26] So now, I mean, one of the things you've spoken about, you know,

[01:19:29] face with your, your program is of course, uh, to transportation and stuff.

[01:19:35] Uh, is there anything else that you face?

[01:19:37] Like I, I, I think that, you know, getting some people to actually go out of the city and

[01:19:43] get out of their comfort zone is kind of a big deal again, but once they do it, it's,

[01:19:48] it's kind of a snap and they get addicted.

[01:19:51] Yeah.

[01:19:52] Um, I think one of the things that worked for me was having my son join the hikes.

[01:19:58] So a lot of my hikers know him as a hiker, um, parents and friends know him as a hiker.

[01:20:05] He's been doing it for a very long time.

[01:20:07] So I feel like the trust is there where, um, they know that I'm capable and that the, the,

[01:20:14] the other guides with me are capable of taking care of the kids.

[01:20:18] When we head out, never had an issue with like signups.

[01:20:22] A lot of the times we have too much signups and you got to figure out like, you know, what

[01:20:27] to do.

[01:20:29] I think, uh, most of our hikers are like Caribbean, um, people.

[01:20:34] Uh, so their kids being born here is having a whole different experience than they had.

[01:20:40] And I think that's one of the reasons why they're into like, um, giving them the opportunity

[01:20:46] to go on a day hike, um, to do something different.

[01:20:51] Yeah.

[01:20:52] It's, it's tough to get that.

[01:20:54] Like that's, that's good that your, your son is with you to get that influence of like, you

[01:20:57] know, Oh, so this, if this kid can do it, then, then this, you know, my kid can do it.

[01:21:03] And then, yeah, my, my son is a very, um, fast hiker and he'll sometimes make fun of

[01:21:11] my hikers and be like, I can't believe you're 30 years old and I'm 13 and I'm walking faster.

[01:21:17] So 13 year old.

[01:21:19] Yeah.

[01:21:20] He's like a motivator, even with the other kids, you know, um, he'll share his experiences

[01:21:27] with them, you know, of the areas that he's been to and the things that he's done hiking.

[01:21:33] And that kind of entices other kids to want to come along.

[01:21:37] Cause he, he loves it.

[01:21:39] Even though he doesn't want to be a guide, he, he loves getting outside.

[01:21:43] And, and, you know, the, another thing to face that I think is, is outreach to, to people,

[01:21:49] you know, like getting them to want to convince them to come out of the city.

[01:21:52] And, you know, the two hour drive or a two hour, like trip on the model trail is, it's

[01:21:57] really difficult.

[01:21:58] So like, how do you, do you like show them pictures or something?

[01:22:02] Like, look at this view I got from bear pen, like bear pen is unforgettable view and stuff

[01:22:07] like that.

[01:22:08] How do you generate your interest to the outreach and getting these people out from the city into

[01:22:13] the woods?

[01:22:15] So usually it's all about most of it is like, um, hikers who've hiked with me, um, have friends

[01:22:24] or connect friends to me.

[01:22:26] I guess my Instagram also, I, I never had to really try to convince anyone to get out,

[01:22:34] which is a great thing.

[01:22:36] Um, I, I, my hikes are usually always full.

[01:22:42] I don't know.

[01:22:43] Maybe I got that magic touch, but, um, I never had an issue.

[01:22:49] Um, trying to convince anyone to get outside.

[01:22:52] I did have like a tough time trying to convince some of my friends to try backpacking.

[01:22:59] And yeah, I took them to a state park where they can still use the toilet.

[01:23:04] Um, still take a shower.

[01:23:08] And we did a overnight.

[01:23:10] And from then on, they were like, Oh, you're onto something here.

[01:23:14] This is, this is really nice.

[01:23:15] Cause I took them on a hike in the night and it was all giggly.

[01:23:19] We went skinny dipping and everyone was like, Oh my God, this is what you do when you come

[01:23:23] out here.

[01:23:24] I'm like, not always, but I try to create experience where it's going to be unforgettable.

[01:23:32] So one, you can't forget it.

[01:23:34] Yeah.

[01:23:35] Like unique experiences.

[01:23:38] That's absolutely phenomenal.

[01:23:40] Yeah.

[01:23:41] It's, it's that one experience that, uh, you know, we'll just catch your mind and keep

[01:23:47] you going to the next, like, like, like you said, like we started off, my wife and I started

[01:23:53] off doing that of, you know, like backpacking with some showers and then of course bathrooms.

[01:24:00] And then you like, well, maybe I can go a couple of days without a shower and then, but I do need

[01:24:06] a bathroom.

[01:24:07] So you might want to have an out, like an outhouse somewhere.

[01:24:10] And then you're just like, um, maybe like four days is pretty good.

[01:24:14] And then all of a sudden you get so comfortable with it.

[01:24:16] They like screw this.

[01:24:17] Let's go on a great backpacking adventure.

[01:24:20] So.

[01:24:21] Yeah.

[01:24:21] I had a couple of hikers too, were on the fence about winter hiking.

[01:24:25] And what I did was I took them to like a frozen waterfall and I'm like, this is what

[01:24:30] you're missing in the winter.

[01:24:32] And I had a friend that I've known for years who went to high school together.

[01:24:36] And she's always Ava.

[01:24:37] I'm never going out in the winter.

[01:24:39] You can't get me to do it.

[01:24:40] And I'm like, just give me one chance.

[01:24:43] Just one hike.

[01:24:45] I knew exactly where I wanted to take her at Minnowasker at the waterfall.

[01:24:50] And from then she only wants to hike in the winter.

[01:24:54] So it's like creating these, um, unique experiences where, you know, people are like, oh, wow.

[01:25:01] I didn't know this.

[01:25:02] This was so beautiful.

[01:25:05] Like, uh, cause in the winter there's all the trees are gone and you can see as far as

[01:25:10] your eyes can see the air is crisp.

[01:25:13] Um, if it's snowing, it's not as cold.

[01:25:16] I talk a lot about gear clothing.

[01:25:18] I share a lot of information on like what to wear, what to do.

[01:25:22] Uh, my backpack is always like 30 pounds.

[01:25:25] Cause I always got extra gear.

[01:25:27] Um, just in case someone needs something or forget something.

[01:25:31] Or, um, I had a hiker who got excited, uh, two weeks ago because I gave her a Hannah

[01:25:37] Walmart.

[01:25:38] She's like, I didn't know these things existed.

[01:25:40] And I'm like, you're kidding.

[01:25:42] She's like, no, I never used one of these before.

[01:25:45] Wow.

[01:25:46] So, you know, it's also a learning experience for them.

[01:25:49] Also learning new things that they can share with family, friends, and even using their

[01:25:55] personal life.

[01:25:56] Like when they're outdoors in different places and you travel or in your daily life.

[01:26:03] And it was just some simple, a hand warmer.

[01:26:05] She was like, I'm cold.

[01:26:06] Like, what do you have?

[01:26:08] I was like, I've got hand warmers.

[01:26:09] Yeah.

[01:26:10] Wow.

[01:26:11] Yeah.

[01:26:12] It's kind of a little piece of trail magic that goes a long way on a cold winter day,

[01:26:17] especially when somebody even like just an extra layer of teaching someone an extra layer

[01:26:21] that could protect you from the wind or something goes a long way.

[01:26:25] Yes.

[01:26:26] Yeah.

[01:26:27] So, Ava, tell us what trail, if you will, I'm going to, I'm going to let you give two

[01:26:34] different answers to this.

[01:26:35] Tell us the trail that you find is the most magical experience to the folks in your group

[01:26:43] and give us one that's in the cat skills.

[01:26:46] Cause that's something that most of our listeners can identify with.

[01:26:49] And then give us, give us a trail outside of the cat skills that you find is also kind

[01:26:56] of a magical experience for your, uh, one of your group members or most of your group members.

[01:27:01] When they hike that the first time, uh, a section of the escarpment trail and the cat skills in

[01:27:07] the fall, um, we went up to North point and then we came down to Newman's ledge sunset.

[01:27:13] Um, and it was fall and it was peak and everyone was like, Oh, like, Oh my God, this is beautiful.

[01:27:24] Like that trail in the cat skills in the fall is like one of the best.

[01:27:31] Unbeatable.

[01:27:32] Yeah.

[01:27:32] Yeah.

[01:27:33] Uh, in the Hudson Valley.

[01:27:36] Um,

[01:27:37] or tri-state area.

[01:27:38] If you go into Jersey, Connecticut, I mean, where is it that outside of the cat skills?

[01:27:43] And I know it's, it's hard to find the place that's better than the cat skills.

[01:27:46] I mean, the cat skills is it.

[01:27:48] Yeah.

[01:27:48] Um, yeah.

[01:27:50] But where, where is it outside of the cat skill region that, that you would be expecting

[01:27:55] the most impact per hiker when you bring them there?

[01:28:00] Uh, it would be Minnewaska state park, uh, doing like the waterfall hikes in Minnewaska

[01:28:06] state park.

[01:28:08] Um, yeah.

[01:28:09] So that would be like rainbow falls for Katie.

[01:28:12] I literally have to split them up in three.

[01:28:15] So I can give a lot of people chances to get on the waterfall.

[01:28:20] Cause I'll do like a waterfall track.

[01:28:22] Hey, this is what it's going to be.

[01:28:24] This is the destination.

[01:28:25] It's a waterfall.

[01:28:26] Yeah.

[01:28:27] The waterfalls in, in Minnewaska state park definitely draws a lot of, um, hikers in the

[01:28:34] summertime.

[01:28:36] Yeah.

[01:28:37] Yeah.

[01:28:37] I mean, the waterfall always catches everybody's attention and stuff like that.

[01:28:41] And it's not, you know, sometimes it's not crazy difficult to get to.

[01:28:45] Yeah.

[01:28:45] And once with that, you can lead them a little bit further and then a little bit further

[01:28:50] and they go further.

[01:28:51] Like it just, the waterfalls are always good.

[01:28:54] Yeah.

[01:28:55] Once I did a waterfall check, it was crazy.

[01:28:58] We left Brooklyn, like about four.

[01:29:01] We did diamond notch.

[01:29:03] We did cataskill.

[01:29:05] We did platyco.

[01:29:06] Oh, nice.

[01:29:07] Yeah.

[01:29:08] And, and that was like amazing.

[01:29:10] Everyone was like, oh, and we did the blue hole the same day.

[01:29:14] What?

[01:29:15] That's like, that's insane.

[01:29:17] Like that's like a 12 hour day right there.

[01:29:19] We got out to the cat skills, I think, um, quarter to seven.

[01:29:24] And from there it was just like driving to all these spots.

[01:29:27] We just have to hiking just a few, um, miles.

[01:29:32] Um, none of them were like pretty long and we just hit a bunch of waterfalls on that trip.

[01:29:37] We rented a van.

[01:29:39] It was just, and I couldn't accommodate, um, enough people.

[01:29:44] Wow.

[01:29:45] That wanted to be on that one, but it was a lot of fun.

[01:29:48] A lot of people want it.

[01:29:50] And we had a great time.

[01:29:52] Hopefully it wasn't this past August when there was no water in the cat skills.

[01:29:55] I don't know.

[01:29:56] Actually last year.

[01:29:58] Okay.

[01:29:59] Good.

[01:29:59] Good.

[01:30:00] So, uh, one of the, the questions I have is, is when you drag some, I'm not drag.

[01:30:07] I, I hate to say that, but you would drag somebody out into the nature.

[01:30:11] I have a feeling that kind of makes them appreciate life a little bit more.

[01:30:15] Like it makes them kind of like feel like they're alive and stuff.

[01:30:20] Do you get that feeling a lot when you're, when you bring these to like people from the city out into nature and they're like,

[01:30:26] Holy shit.

[01:30:27] This is what we have two hours outside of New York city.

[01:30:30] Yeah.

[01:30:31] I, I, a lot of the times people surprised that these places exist like our way or two hours away.

[01:30:38] I've been blessed this year to guide for a company called fun with friends where, uh, once every month on a Saturday, they do a hike.

[01:30:49] And it was like a lot of young people and they were just amazed to see me filter water.

[01:30:55] And I was like, and you know, like the simple things that like I, as a hiker, like I've known for so many years and like kind of take for granted.

[01:31:05] It was like, Oh, this is some good water.

[01:31:07] Like, I think it's just that space aware.

[01:31:12] You kind of are just focused on yourself.

[01:31:14] Like, let me make it through these five miles so I can end this hike.

[01:31:18] You kind of forced to, to, um, be more self-aware, um, during the hike.

[01:31:25] Um, let me make sure I eat enough, like make sure I'm hydrated.

[01:31:28] You kind of don't do that when you're home.

[01:31:31] We kind of just like rush by, do things, um, move around a lot and kind of lose focus on like taking care of yourself, your body per se.

[01:31:43] But when you're out hiking, like you, you kind of tend to, you learn a lot about yourself.

[01:31:49] Like I'm a hot hiker and I will say to my hikers, this is how you know what kind of body or how your body is when you're out in nature.

[01:31:58] If you sweat fast, you're a hot hiker.

[01:32:01] If you're always cold and you know, maybe you got, um, low blood, like, you know, like there's different ways to kind of figure out like your body and things that, you know, your body's capable of doing.

[01:32:14] I did a challenge with that group, fun with friends. We did beacon to cold spring and they couldn't believe their height.

[01:32:22] They hiked 11 miles when we were done. Um, people didn't realize they were capable of doing it.

[01:32:28] It was actually like a challenge. So, um, it takes you out of your comfort zone a lot in nature.

[01:32:35] And you kind of get these moments when you sit and you're alone, even if you're with a group, you can sit for lunch and you kind of like.

[01:32:43] Take a chance to look around and just like, Oh, this is beautiful. This is different. This is nice.

[01:32:50] Kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:32:52] It definitely, like you said, bringing out people out of their comfort zone really shows like, uh, kind of bring them to life.

[01:33:01] Like to be like, wow, there's, there's more we can do outside of just, just this little area.

[01:33:06] Yeah. And then, like you said, an hour or two away is, is mountains that you can experience ledges.

[01:33:13] Yeah. And you know, the Hudson river doesn't look like that from Brooklyn.

[01:33:16] It looks like a small little slither going through bear mountain and such like that.

[01:33:20] And they're just like, wow, this is absolutely phenomenal. And, and you know, that's, I, I'm just amazed that you can do this, uh, over and over and over again with such success.

[01:33:32] It is so great to, to get people captured with what you're doing and they get people in nature. It's just like, you know, I live what they call a city, 14,000 people.

[01:33:45] That's a city and to us, but then there's, I don't even know how many billion in, in, in New York city.

[01:33:54] It's not a billion stash.

[01:33:56] It's not yet. It's not yet. Well, we've got 7 billion. Sorry. But seven, how many, like 7 million?

[01:34:01] Yeah. There's, yeah, there's, there's millions of people in the city, but right now there's apparently a billion drones.

[01:34:07] Yeah. Yeah. Right.

[01:34:08] That's another story.

[01:34:10] Yeah. Yeah. That's enough to have. Have you seen those?

[01:34:12] No, I haven't.

[01:34:14] Oh, okay.

[01:34:15] I haven't.

[01:34:16] Well, you will. You probably will. So.

[01:34:19] Yeah.

[01:34:20] Okay. So sorry.

[01:34:21] Um, Ava, uh, one of the things I'd be interested in hearing is you, you kind of have this, uh, positive vibe, very welcoming and like, you know, easy to talk to.

[01:34:32] So I imagine there's a lot of people that want to participate in your program.

[01:34:38] Uh, so can you tell us about some of the success stories, you know, people that maybe that were reluctant to, uh,

[01:34:44] to go out hiking at first and then really got, got the bug and, and went on to just do a lot of other hiking above and beyond what you were offering and.

[01:34:53] It's getting, you know, getting involved with other groups.

[01:34:56] Uh, do you have any stories like that you want to share with us?

[01:35:00] Yeah. Um, uh, the two members who, um, who hiked with me, who became guides.

[01:35:07] Um, I literally guided through them, them through the whole guide program.

[01:35:12] I was their person to like, they didn't like, um, go to most of the like workshops that I did.

[01:35:20] Like everything was just one-on-one with me.

[01:35:24] Um, there is so many success stories where I have hikers who've left New York and, um, move further south, who would still reach out.

[01:35:36] Like, thank you for, um, introducing me to nature.

[01:35:40] I have, um, I, there's a lot of hikes.

[01:35:45] I try to stay, um, open.

[01:35:48] So people don't feel like they can't, um, communicate with me.

[01:35:51] I, I always respond to a text.

[01:35:55] Um, I'm better at texts than emails.

[01:35:57] So, um, I try to be, um, accessible, um, in whatever way I can.

[01:36:05] Recently, I, I literally guided a hiker who, um, didn't want to hike by herself and kind of on the fence.

[01:36:14] And she asked if I could suggest, um, a location.

[01:36:17] I suggested a location.

[01:36:19] We texted the day, um, during the hike.

[01:36:22] And she was like, I didn't think I could do it, but you made me.

[01:36:26] And I'm very proud of myself.

[01:36:28] And I, and I really had a great time.

[01:36:30] So, I mean, I've had experiences like that where I know hikers would reach out.

[01:36:35] I know your hikes are full, but can you give me the info for this location or that location?

[01:36:41] And I'll, and I send them everything, all the logistics, how you get there, how many miles, um, make suggestions.

[01:36:48] There are so many.

[01:36:51] Good.

[01:36:51] So, I've met so many people over the years, um, guiding groups, um, doing private events.

[01:36:58] Uh, I took a group of, um, teenagers recently to, uh, an area in the Hudson Valley on a day hike for a birthday.

[01:37:08] And, um, one of the things that I did was I, I got them to meditate when we got to the summit and it was like unexpected.

[01:37:18] And they didn't realize like they could be quiet for like 10 minutes, you know, and just like meditated.

[01:37:25] So, um, I've had so many experiences with hikers and, and friends who've, um, moved on to like, uh, different places and still hike.

[01:37:39] I've introduced hikers to backpacking who still backpack.

[01:37:43] And, um, I've also have hikers who would not hike with anyone else but me.

[01:37:49] So, um.

[01:37:50] That's very cool.

[01:37:51] Do you do any backpacking with your group in the Catskills?

[01:37:55] I did.

[01:37:57] I did.

[01:37:57] Um, so, uh, there was one year I, I hired, we hired Melissa as a guide and we did a backpacking trip.

[01:38:05] We did table and peek-a-moose.

[01:38:08] And that was like a more beginner getting people, um, into it.

[01:38:13] Sometimes, uh, outside perspective is kind of better because sometimes they, it goes over their head what I say.

[01:38:20] Sometimes.

[01:38:22] So getting someone else, um, involved was a really good thing and it gave me a break too.

[01:38:28] Uh, we've done, um, some in West Mountain.

[01:38:34] So, um, not a lot but enough where, um, people who've never tried it before had a chance to try it and wanted to try it.

[01:38:44] And this year, the weather kind of screwed us a couple weekends when we were trying to do some backpacking, um, in the Hudson Valley.

[01:38:52] That's a big frustration as the weather.

[01:38:55] Yeah.

[01:38:56] I have a friend of mine who never did backpacking before.

[01:39:00] Ever.

[01:39:01] Never backpacked.

[01:39:02] And I was going to do, um, Maryland and West Virginia.

[01:39:07] And she kept saying, oh, I like, I like backpacking.

[01:39:10] I like to see what you do.

[01:39:11] And I was like, are you sure?

[01:39:14] And we did two and a half days.

[01:39:16] The first day was like a 22 mile.

[01:39:19] Wow.

[01:39:19] And I felt bad for her.

[01:39:21] Wow.

[01:39:22] And after the experience, she wanted more.

[01:39:25] And so we both went to the Catskills and spent five days backpacking in the Catskills.

[01:39:31] Wow.

[01:39:31] And she had no previous experience.

[01:39:34] But she just loved it.

[01:39:36] Like, uh, she fell in love with it.

[01:39:38] What makes them fall in love with it though?

[01:39:40] Like, I'm very curious.

[01:39:42] Just to be in there.

[01:39:43] I think it's my approach to it where I don't try to push anyone too hard.

[01:39:49] I try to let people be comfortable because, uh, when we started hiking, she was more behind,

[01:39:56] but I never, um, I never got out of her sight.

[01:40:00] I was always inside.

[01:40:01] I made stops, more stops than I would normally do.

[01:40:05] I try to make her comfortable, um, by carrying some of her gear.

[01:40:11] So I think it's that like, um, making people feel more comfortable and like being okay with

[01:40:17] making mistakes and not because my thing is like, this is how you learn.

[01:40:22] And, uh, one of the things we talked about after the trip was like, I said to her, look

[01:40:27] at your gear and look at back at your experience.

[01:40:32] What will make you more comfortable?

[01:40:34] So we talk about that.

[01:40:35] I do a lot of that with my hackers, like with camp and backpack, like my get up, my setup

[01:40:42] for my backpacking is for my comfort is for, um, my needs.

[01:40:48] Yours are going to be different.

[01:40:49] So try to look back on the experience and see where you can improve what you can add to

[01:40:56] your gear or what you can subtract to make the experience a better one for you.

[01:41:01] Cause this is your experience.

[01:41:03] You know, this, this is your hike.

[01:41:05] Um, this is how you want to remember it.

[01:41:08] So I, I do that, um, a lot with my, um, hikers, especially with the backpacking.

[01:41:14] I'm like, look over your gear.

[01:41:16] Don't buy gears that I have because you think it's the best gear.

[01:41:22] I have, um, gear where I loan out gear and I said, um, try it first.

[01:41:28] If you don't like it, you know, always look into something else.

[01:41:32] So I give people options, especially when it comes to gear.

[01:41:35] Cause it's not a one fit for everyone.

[01:41:38] Everyone has different tastes.

[01:41:40] Um, even your sleep system will sleep differently.

[01:41:43] Um, my friend took a yoga mat and I was trying to convince her.

[01:41:47] No, you take a sleeping pad.

[01:41:51] Yeah.

[01:41:52] Like Jesus, this is luxury compared to yoga.

[01:41:56] But for our next trip, she did take a sleeping pad because she realized it's too much weight.

[01:42:03] It's too bulky.

[01:42:05] So I was like, I didn't say, don't take it.

[01:42:07] I wanted her to have the experience so that she can determine, um, oh, this doesn't work.

[01:42:13] Or, you know, that's impressive because once again, like you're, you're letting them say

[01:42:20] like, uh, you know, they want to do this, but then you're like, here, check this out.

[01:42:24] And then you're just like, they're like, oh my God, this is a Cadillac compared to the

[01:42:28] Toyota I just bought.

[01:42:31] That's crazy.

[01:42:33] So we went, when we did the cat scale for the five days, we went to Melissa.

[01:42:37] Cause I was trying to do a shakedown with her.

[01:42:39] And she, she was like, I want to take my cat.

[01:42:42] She has like a car, like a bed.

[01:42:44] I'm like, no, we're going to be hiking from trailhead to trailhead.

[01:42:48] 70s stuff.

[01:42:48] I don't think you can manage.

[01:42:51] And then Melissa convinced her, Melissa's like, just try this sleeping pad.

[01:42:56] And by the third night, she was like, that was such a great decision because carrying this

[01:43:01] backpack, you know, it's not easy.

[01:43:04] And then that caught with weight, probably like six pounds.

[01:43:08] So it's just like learning in the process.

[01:43:11] They're able to learn like, um, Hey, Ava is going to let me do this, but then, you know,

[01:43:16] I'm going to find out down the road that she was right.

[01:43:20] So, yeah.

[01:43:20] Well, you, you, you relate that story and it's nearly identical to, uh, my daughter setting

[01:43:27] out to do her first solo backpacking trip.

[01:43:32] And she, she was planning, I think on five nights and she packed her backpack as if she

[01:43:37] was going nonstop cross country.

[01:43:39] And she, she had so much gear in it that when she went to literally, when she went to put

[01:43:44] it on, she almost fell over.

[01:43:46] Okay.

[01:43:47] So I, I, I subtly suggested that she cut some weight, but I didn't like make her strip it

[01:43:52] down because I was going to hook up with her after a couple nights on the trail, uh, which

[01:43:57] I did.

[01:43:58] And then we went through her pack.

[01:44:00] She went through it and she was just getting rid of everything.

[01:44:04] Yeah.

[01:44:04] And she probably, yeah, she probably got, you know, cut the weight down by almost two thirds,

[01:44:08] maybe more than that.

[01:44:09] But sometimes as we know, you tell somebody and it doesn't resonate with them.

[01:44:16] You let them experience it and then they, then they understand what you're talking about.

[01:44:22] So.

[01:44:22] Yeah, that's true.

[01:44:24] So Ava, I'm, I'm very curious.

[01:44:26] What is the most, I hate to say it like this, but city person thing that someone's ever brought

[01:44:33] on the hike that you're just like, Oh no, no, no, not this.

[01:44:41] Like, like a boom box stuff like that.

[01:44:43] Like I thought the yoga mat was pretty city.

[01:44:46] That's pretty.

[01:44:47] I mean, I have to start out with that in the, in the, in the early days.

[01:44:51] I'm trying to buy time for Ava here.

[01:44:53] Cause you can see she's thinking either it's because there's so many things that are populating

[01:44:57] her head or she, she's pretty good at programming her folks in advance to, you know, leave,

[01:45:04] leave a lot of stuff at home.

[01:45:05] So that's it.

[01:45:06] The clock is winding down.

[01:45:07] Ava, what do you got to say?

[01:45:08] So, um, I had a hiker once.

[01:45:11] Um, her pack was, it was a day hike and we were doing bullhead and, um, her pack was too

[01:45:19] heavy.

[01:45:19] And, um, I offered to carry some stuff.

[01:45:22] I couldn't, she ended up falling and stuff keep falling out.

[01:45:26] And she had like a roll of these, this, like a roll of, um, paper towel, actual pot.

[01:45:35] A pot on a day hike.

[01:45:37] Day hike.

[01:45:37] Wow.

[01:45:38] That's good.

[01:45:38] Yeah.

[01:45:39] Like everyone said she'd want her whole kitchen.

[01:45:41] So that was like, yeah, that was something that I can't forget.

[01:45:46] Yeah.

[01:45:47] I mean, yeah, I mean, if you're ready to save the day for other people, I guess like.

[01:45:51] Well, she thought, oh, and there's another hiker.

[01:45:54] Um, when we went backpacking, he brought a huge skillet.

[01:45:59] Well, he had two backpacks and I was wondering, why do you have two backpacks?

[01:46:04] Backpack and backpack and a day pack.

[01:46:06] And the boat was just like full.

[01:46:07] And I said to him like, why, why did you bring so much stuff?

[01:46:10] What do you have in there?

[01:46:12] And by dinnertime, he pulled out the skillet, pulled out onions and garlic.

[01:46:18] Wow.

[01:46:19] Like, ready for actual food.

[01:46:22] With you being from St. Vincent, you know, I've, I've been to Jamaica several times and

[01:46:26] you know, these people can pull out anything and start cooking from anything from, it's

[01:46:32] just, it's insane, you know?

[01:46:33] Yeah, he was from Trinidad.

[01:46:35] Oh, there you go.

[01:46:36] There you go.

[01:46:37] You were going to eat one of those like cookouts.

[01:46:39] All sizzling on there.

[01:46:41] You know what you guys were going to eat.

[01:46:43] Yeah.

[01:46:43] So after all that effort and all that weight, was it a good meal?

[01:46:48] Right.

[01:46:50] He didn't get to cook anything.

[01:46:52] Oh.

[01:46:53] What happened?

[01:46:54] What happened?

[01:46:55] Because, because we were so tired.

[01:46:57] Oh.

[01:46:58] I think I gave him noodles because everyone had like those good to go meals or pasta or

[01:47:07] that quick and easy.

[01:47:09] And he's like, I got a light of fire to put this skillet on and put all this stuff in

[01:47:15] there.

[01:47:15] And everyone was laughing about it.

[01:47:18] And he was like, no, no, no, forget it.

[01:47:20] He also, he took his tent and he went like really far from us and he set up his tent.

[01:47:29] And in the middle of the night, we heard like rustling.

[01:47:32] He said he heard something and he left the entire tent up and brought it closer to everyone

[01:47:38] else.

[01:47:38] It was so funny.

[01:47:40] Like, I was like, are you okay?

[01:47:42] He said, no, no, no.

[01:47:43] I heard something moving.

[01:47:44] I was like, we're in the mountain.

[01:47:47] There probably are animals here.

[01:47:49] I mean, there are animals here, but you know, you would hear something moving probably in

[01:47:53] the night.

[01:47:54] He's like, no, that sounded big.

[01:47:55] Yeah.

[01:47:56] So he took his entire tent up and brought it closer to everyone.

[01:48:01] It was just so funny.

[01:48:03] Nice.

[01:48:04] So Ava, on a more serious note, where do you, where do you see the future growth and

[01:48:10] development of tri-state hikers?

[01:48:13] What's your vision for the future?

[01:48:17] Uh, so I would, um, like to see, uh, tri-state hikers hosting more, um, camping trips.

[01:48:25] I wish that our, um, kids program can grow and, um, we are able to do it like once a season

[01:48:33] because we tried it to do it, um, uh, each season, the four seasons in one year.

[01:48:39] It was tough because it took a lot of time from volunteers because everyone volunteers

[01:48:44] their time.

[01:48:46] Um, and it was pretty tough because the, the time was just like flying by.

[01:48:51] Um, I would like to see us being able to do that, uh, having a bit more support in terms

[01:48:59] of like guides.

[01:49:01] Also with, uh, I do, um, a retreat, a bo- at Bohemia retreat in Livingston.

[01:49:08] Uh, we did it for the second year this year.

[01:49:10] It has grown, um, to the point where we might need to add camping spots, uh, which is not

[01:49:18] owned by the, um, the owner of the glamping, um, area that we go to.

[01:49:24] So, um, we are growing.

[01:49:28] People are definitely getting involved and, um, we're, we're making a difference in, in

[01:49:36] people's lives.

[01:49:37] And I wish that I have more guides, more volunteers so we can do more and more funds.

[01:49:46] So Ava, so how would we be able to kind of donate to the, the tri-state hikers and contribute

[01:49:53] kind of in a way you, you have a website, correct?

[01:49:58] Yeah, we have a website and we have a link in our bio in Instagram where you can donate

[01:50:04] to our gift butter.

[01:50:05] That's, um, for our kids backpacking trip that we would love to have next year.

[01:50:12] We're not able to do it this year because we didn't have enough volunteers.

[01:50:16] Cause we, we like to have more adults than kids.

[01:50:20] So we have eyes on, on all of them at the same time.

[01:50:25] So, uh, yeah, you can go to our website, um, tri-state hikers.com or to our Instagram.

[01:50:32] And there's a gift butter link to donate to the kids backpacking trip.

[01:50:38] All right.

[01:50:39] I will put that on there.

[01:50:40] And Ava, how much money are you guys looking to raise for the kids backpacking trip?

[01:50:46] Um, we were trying to raise at least 1500.

[01:50:50] Um, that would have covered the cost of like having the transportation with us for the two

[01:50:56] days.

[01:50:56] We take them backpacking.

[01:51:00] Backpacking near like a campground.

[01:51:01] So we rent the, the 10 spots.

[01:51:04] So they'll backpack to the 10 spots, but they still have the comfort of like being able to

[01:51:10] use the bathroom.

[01:51:11] Um, you know, taking a shower, staying clean.

[01:51:14] I would love to bring them into the Catskills.

[01:51:19] Um, that was one of my things, um, two years ago.

[01:51:22] I really wanted to take them to the Catskills, but the cost for transportation for a weekend

[01:51:27] was about a thousand plus just to be able to have the van with us up there for the three

[01:51:34] days.

[01:51:35] So we weren't able to do that.

[01:51:37] Uh, we, we like to be able to provide the gear for the kids and like meals because some

[01:51:44] of the parents do not understand like how to pack the backpacks, um, doesn't have the

[01:51:50] money to invest in, um, buying the gears.

[01:51:54] We were fortunate enough to get backpacks donated by a company called almonds, right?

[01:52:00] They donated six backpacks.

[01:52:03] So we do have those backpacks, but the rest of the gear, um, camping gear.

[01:52:10] Yeah.

[01:52:10] We'd like to be able to purchase those and also be able to hire an extra guide, not just

[01:52:16] myself, uh, to able to run the program for like a weekend in the Catskills.

[01:52:21] And, and in terms of the adult chaperones that you're looking for, is there any qualifications?

[01:52:27] I mean, we have many listeners out there that are very capable backpackers.

[01:52:32] Absolutely.

[01:52:33] What if they wanted to volunteer for a three nighter or five nighter?

[01:52:38] Sure.

[01:52:39] We're open to volunteers.

[01:52:40] Um, that's how we actually run our program through volunteers.

[01:52:44] Um, we've never opened it publicly.

[01:52:46] We've only done, um, the hikers that are within the network, but that's a good idea.

[01:52:54] I'm glad you brought that up.

[01:52:55] All right.

[01:52:56] Yeah.

[01:52:56] We, we, we've got a lot of experienced, uh, hikers and backpackers that occasionally listen

[01:53:03] to portions of the show.

[01:53:06] So yeah, we can, we can hook you up.

[01:53:08] I'm going to check out your Amazon gear link and, uh, maybe do a little secret, secret

[01:53:13] Santa shopping for you folks.

[01:53:16] Um, cause I know, I know when I was a youngster and I got some camping gear, it really was

[01:53:21] a game changer for me.

[01:53:22] And I, I get a kick out of, you know, turning somebody onto that.

[01:53:27] And you seem to be the right person.

[01:53:29] The last backpacking trip didn't want to go home.

[01:53:34] Nice.

[01:53:34] I was at the train station and they were like, do we really have to go today?

[01:53:38] And I was like, yeah, we really have to go.

[01:53:40] Cause they went swimming, you know, um, Henry was one of the guys, um, that we had to teach

[01:53:46] the kids.

[01:53:47] How did La Vega?

[01:53:49] Yes.

[01:53:50] Nice.

[01:53:50] He's, yeah.

[01:53:51] He's one of the sponsors of the show.

[01:53:53] Yeah.

[01:53:53] So, um, I was grateful to have Henry, um, help the kids make, you know, these hand bands

[01:54:00] out of ropes, learning knots.

[01:54:02] And I would love to be able to do that again.

[01:54:05] Yeah.

[01:54:06] Well, we'll, we'll, we'll see if we can get it hooked up.

[01:54:08] So anybody who's listening, please, uh, get in contact with Ava and we'll, we'll, we'll

[01:54:13] all chip in and do something.

[01:54:15] So.

[01:54:15] And we'd love to come to the Catskills.

[01:54:18] Like I'm obsessed with the Catskills.

[01:54:21] As are we.

[01:54:22] It's addictive.

[01:54:23] It's addictive.

[01:54:24] It is.

[01:54:25] Yeah.

[01:54:25] In a good way.

[01:54:26] I should be up there in March again for a couple of days, backpacking, um, the 30s, a couple

[01:54:32] of more, 3,500 beats.

[01:54:34] Nice.

[01:54:35] Yeah.

[01:54:35] We'll get you up.

[01:54:36] We'll get something hooked up.

[01:54:37] So last question, Ava post-hike bruising bites.

[01:54:40] When you go for those long trips that you said with the waterfalls and stuff, where do

[01:54:44] you like to take people to, uh, experience a Catskill commodity or something like that, that

[01:54:50] you are just, they, they're blown away with everything.

[01:54:53] We love Westgate Blurie.

[01:54:55] Nice.

[01:54:56] It's one of our favorites, uh, for food.

[01:55:00] I, I love the town of town as well.

[01:55:02] And we love mama's boy and craze cafe.

[01:55:06] Um, those are our favorites so far.

[01:55:09] And, um, once we find something that we like, we don't kind of like change.

[01:55:14] So I'm not sure if there's anything else out there, but once we're in that area, we would

[01:55:20] go to mama's boy or craze cafe and Westgate brewery.

[01:55:24] We've been to the Catskill brewery, um, also, but yeah, that's, that's our spot.

[01:55:31] Awesome.

[01:55:32] Awesome.

[01:55:33] Well, Ava, thank you for joining us on the show.

[01:55:35] I had a fantastic time.

[01:55:36] Yeah.

[01:55:38] Just what, what you're doing is absolutely phenomenal.

[01:55:41] Uh, just bring people out in nature to, to get them experience that, that vibe and to get

[01:55:47] them hooked because it's very rarely that you don't get them hooked on what we have up

[01:55:52] here in upstate New York.

[01:55:54] And it's phenomenal.

[01:55:56] So I thank you for joining us on the show and, uh, I wish you all the success and let

[01:56:01] me know if you need anything.

[01:56:02] I'll definitely help out in any way I can.

[01:56:05] Thanks for having me.

[01:56:06] And I, I found this podcast about a year ago and, um, I've shared it with my hikers.

[01:56:15] And, um, one of the reasons why I listened to this podcast is I get to learn about the

[01:56:19] history of the Catskills because I love the Catskills so much.

[01:56:22] So I got hooked on it for that reason.

[01:56:25] Excellent.

[01:56:26] Good.

[01:56:26] Well, our, our last episode was about, uh, the origins of the Catskills and the Devonian

[01:56:33] period.

[01:56:34] Yeah.

[01:56:35] With, uh, geologist Chuck.

[01:56:39] Yeah.

[01:56:40] From the State Museum.

[01:56:41] So it's a, a worthwhile listen.

[01:56:43] And I, I've, I've got a couple of compliments on that show.

[01:56:46] I haven't shared them with Stosh cause I don't want it to go to his head, but I know some

[01:56:51] people liked it.

[01:56:52] Yeah.

[01:56:53] And I'd like to be able to share the information that you share with on the podcast with my

[01:56:58] hikers, like, um, the people that I'm taking up into the area, it's good to give them like

[01:57:03] a background of the history of the area and, um, you know, on unique places in the Catskills.

[01:57:09] Not just about like having fun, like also walking away with, um, something about the Catskills,

[01:57:16] knowing something unique about it.

[01:57:18] Yeah, definitely.

[01:57:21] Uh, so once again, Ava, thank you for joining me and joining us.

[01:57:24] Uh, thank you to the monthly supporters and monthly sponsors.

[01:57:27] Really appreciate you guys.

[01:57:28] Uh, thank you to everyone who's still listening to show Ava.

[01:57:31] Thank you for listening to the show.

[01:57:32] And, uh, of course sharing the show that really helps a lot.

[01:57:37] Uh, and hope you had a good time tonight and I, we wish you success.

[01:57:40] Keep, keep in touch and we'll, uh, we will definitely keep in touch.

[01:57:45] So have a good night and happy holidays.

[01:57:47] Yeah.

[01:57:47] Happy holidays.

[01:57:49] Uh, wow.

[01:57:49] Well, we did say Merry Christmas.

[01:57:51] Same to you guys.

[01:57:56] Hi everyone.

[01:57:57] I just want to thank you for listening to the show.

[01:58:00] If you enjoyed the show, subscribe and throw down a smooth review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts,

[01:58:08] or any podcast platform that you use.

[01:58:11] You can also check daily updates of the podcast, hikes, hiking news, and local news on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter,

[01:58:21] and the official website of the show.

[01:58:23] Remember this.

[01:58:25] Remember this.

[01:58:25] You gotta just keep on living in the Catskills, man.

[01:58:30] L-I-V-I-N.

[01:58:33] Wicked, wicked, wicked, wicked.

[01:58:36] WI-I-E-D.