Episode 144 - Not Defeated: Finishing the Thru-Hike with Betsy Anderson

[00:00:29] The bushwhacks were some of the worst days I've ever had in the mountains, or life, really.

[00:00:36] Whereas Pantsy Mountain is totally opposite, it's a mountain on top of a crater.

[00:00:41] I think the weather challenges on this incident were particularly difficult.

[00:00:47] It improved the development of New York State. Catskills were responsive.

[00:00:52] You're listening to Inside The Line, the Catskill Mountains Podcast.

[00:01:08] Alright, so Episode 144 tonight, Betsy joins us and we're going to be talking about her enchanting time on the escarpment trail of where she did it halfway and unfortunately had to bail and then redid it and reclaimed her faith.

[00:01:24] What do you call this trip that you had? Saving the face of what?

[00:01:30] Ssar Aniston.

[00:01:33] Okay, okay.

[00:01:35] What is it?

[00:01:35] Can you briefly explain what Ssar Aniston means?

[00:01:40] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:01:42] When I was in the United States Army, I had a difficult time initially understanding what the non-commissioned officers were saying and that included my own name.

[00:01:56] So, in the Army, for brevity purposes, instead of saying Anderson, which was my last name, my last name sounded more like Aniston.

[00:02:07] And when I was a private, it was Pride Aniston.

[00:02:10] And then when I became a sergeant, it was Ssar Aniston.

[00:02:15] Alright, well that explains a lot, Betsy.

[00:02:18] Thank you.

[00:02:18] I appreciate it.

[00:02:19] So tonight, Betsy's going to chat about her awesome time on the escarpment trail that she had in the first few days and then came back and did the last day of her backpacking trip with another summit, which was a sponsor of our show and also a great, amazing organization.

[00:02:35] So, welcome to the show, Betsy.

[00:02:38] Thank you so much.

[00:02:39] It's an honor to be here, Stash.

[00:02:42] Oh, it's great to have you on.

[00:02:43] I can't wait to hear your story.

[00:02:44] So, let's get down to the kind of big detail that has been happening in the past two to three weeks.

[00:02:52] Comet, I'm going to try to say this, Comet Tuskisinin, Tuskisinin.

[00:02:57] Is that how you say it correctly?

[00:02:59] Betsy, you've probably been more paces than me and probably can pronounce that a little bit easier.

[00:03:03] What is, did I say that right?

[00:03:06] That sounded perfect.

[00:03:07] Okay.

[00:03:08] So, did you guys get to see that?

[00:03:10] Did you get to check it out?

[00:03:13] Take it away, Betsy.

[00:03:16] I did not.

[00:03:17] I live in central New Jersey where there's a lot of light pollution.

[00:03:23] So, I don't even really get to see stars all that much from where I live.

[00:03:29] Okay.

[00:03:29] Okay.

[00:03:30] I mean, it was fantastic.

[00:03:32] Tad, did you get to see it at all?

[00:03:34] I mean, I've seen pictures of your backyard.

[00:03:36] You got to have to see something.

[00:03:38] Yeah.

[00:03:38] Well, we tried to get tickets, but it was all sold out.

[00:03:41] So, we didn't get to, you know, log in and take a view maybe next time.

[00:03:48] It comes by every year, every October.

[00:03:50] Is that what I understand?

[00:03:52] Yeah.

[00:03:52] Every 45,000 years.

[00:03:54] All right.

[00:03:54] So, I'll catch the next one.

[00:03:57] When comment, I can't pronounce your name, comes to the area again, I'll have a front row seat.

[00:04:04] Toscanon.

[00:04:05] Toscanon.

[00:04:05] So, recently, I've, you know, I've always been to astrophotography and stuff like that.

[00:04:11] I've always liked this kind of stuff.

[00:04:13] And the last time I got to view a comet, I have a 20 inch telescope.

[00:04:18] It's huge.

[00:04:19] It's massive.

[00:04:20] I've always been into this kind of stuff.

[00:04:22] And last time we got to view this was like 2014, I believe, was Comet Lovejoy.

[00:04:28] And that was really cool because it was really high up in the sky and that was beautiful.

[00:04:32] So, coming to this, you could see this.

[00:04:35] I was up at my local college with light pollution everywhere and you could see it.

[00:04:41] You know, the college kids were having a good time.

[00:04:43] We know the professor that does the astrophotography, astronomy up there.

[00:04:48] And she was like invited us up and I brought my professional camera and, you know, took some pictures.

[00:04:56] And I gotta admit, I kind of wish I was at a darker place to get better pictures because these were just washed out by the light pollution so much.

[00:05:03] Yeah.

[00:05:04] Well, while you were saying that, I did check and Comet Lovejoy actually existed.

[00:05:11] Because with a name like Lovejoy, who would take the comet seriously?

[00:05:16] True.

[00:05:17] But it was discovered by an Australian astrometer in November 2011.

[00:05:25] So…

[00:05:25] You think I'd be lying about that?

[00:05:28] I don't know.

[00:05:29] I don't know, man.

[00:05:30] A guy from Oneonta.

[00:05:31] We just…

[00:05:32] I'm not sure if we can trust you upstate guys.

[00:05:35] We have good dark skies.

[00:05:36] Well, not dark skies in Oneonta, but around here we do.

[00:05:38] So, I get to…

[00:05:39] You know, I travel 20 minutes outside of Oneonta and I get great dark skies.

[00:05:44] And, you know, it was just a great time to…

[00:05:48] Hopefully, I see a lot of people enjoy that, just like the Aurora that we had.

[00:05:53] And it was a really cool sight to see once again.

[00:05:55] This only happens, you know, I'm guessing right now every 45,000 years that this comet comes into view.

[00:06:01] But hopefully sometime we'll have a new comet coming in and we can see it.

[00:06:05] And it was…

[00:06:06] My friend asked me how many miles was it away.

[00:06:09] And I remember reading that at the time I was photographing this, it was 45 million miles away.

[00:06:15] Wow.

[00:06:15] Well, yeah.

[00:06:16] Wow.

[00:06:17] Like, that's not that far away from a comet, I guess, you know.

[00:06:21] Yeah.

[00:06:21] And then to be able to capture that image on, you know, land-based photography, digital photography equipment is also amazing.

[00:06:30] Yeah.

[00:06:31] It was a cool experience, you know.

[00:06:33] And once again, if you have the chance, get out there and see this kind of stuff because you never know when you see it again.

[00:06:39] And…

[00:06:40] Well, according to you, what is it, 45,000 years?

[00:06:43] You have to wait 45 million miles, 45,000 years.

[00:06:48] Yeah.

[00:06:48] So, I mean, we'll…

[00:06:50] Yeah, we won't be here.

[00:06:52] I don't know when the next comet is.

[00:06:53] Sorry.

[00:06:54] We won't be here, but the podcast will still be going on.

[00:06:59] Somebody will take over.

[00:07:00] Yeah.

[00:07:01] It'll be like 85 million generations later.

[00:07:04] God, I'm trying to think of how many episodes would that be.

[00:07:07] We're 144 episodes.

[00:07:08] Jesus.

[00:07:09] Got to do the math.

[00:07:10] I can't do that.

[00:07:11] We can't count that high.

[00:07:12] Yeah.

[00:07:13] So, a bunch of rescues have happened.

[00:07:15] I mean, we're going a little bit off scale with the comet to the rescue.

[00:07:19] So, recently, we've had a bunch of rescues.

[00:07:22] So, in Woodstock on October 12th, 2.30 p.m., Ulster County 911 requested a forest ranger assistance to an injured hiker on an Overlook Mountain in the area of Echo Lake.

[00:07:31] So, this is towards the north side of Overlook Mountain and not towards the southern side where everybody goes.

[00:07:38] Rangers called the hiker's daughter and learned that the 78-year-old from France was unable to walk or even sit up.

[00:07:46] Rangers Franceschina and Martin joined the Woodstock Fire Department and the Woodstock Paramedic and found the subject at 4 p.m.

[00:07:52] The paramedic suspected that the subject had a fractured pelvis.

[00:07:56] Now, New York, that, I mean, that's a little bit far beyond the reach of hauling the person out because fractured pelvis is pretty big.

[00:08:06] And plus, if you're over on the Echo Lake, that's a hull of a haul.

[00:08:10] New York State Police Aviation pilots, Leader and Celestine, were called in to help perform a hoist rescue.

[00:08:16] Rangers, Fire Department personnel, and Catskill Center steward located and carried the patient to a site 300 feet uphill that would work as a hoist location.

[00:08:26] Ranger Cowart and Ranger, Ranger Cowart lowered Ranger Rusher who helped pack as a subject at 515.

[00:08:33] Ranger Cowart successfully hoisted the hiker to helicopter and they flew to the hospital.

[00:08:37] Now, there is a video of this out on the DEC website.

[00:08:40] I will post it, but crazy stuff.

[00:08:43] So I'm curious, 300 feet uphill from Echo Lake probably would have to be the summit, correct?

[00:08:54] The summit of...

[00:08:56] Overlook or Platical?

[00:08:57] You know, I'm not sure, but Echo Lake is downgrade from the main trail that runs over Overlook out to Devil's Kitchen.

[00:09:11] Yeah.

[00:09:13] It's tough to feel where they did this unless they...

[00:09:18] I mean, with that amount of time, 2.30 to 5.30, so they didn't collect any trees or stuff like that.

[00:09:24] So they had to have a central spot of hoisting and stuff like that.

[00:09:28] Yeah, there's, you know, all along that trail, I'm not even going to call it a trail, it's really an old haul road,

[00:09:36] because there's a lot of quarries along it.

[00:09:38] There's plenty of cleared areas to haul somebody out of.

[00:09:43] It's probably difficult to get them there.

[00:09:46] Yeah.

[00:09:48] But with enough manpower, it can be done.

[00:09:52] Yeah.

[00:09:52] So once again, thank you to the Rangers for kicking ass all the time.

[00:09:56] Uh, Franceschina and Martin.

[00:09:58] Of course, Martin's always out there.

[00:10:00] I know that guy.

[00:10:00] He's an awesome dude.

[00:10:01] He's been on the show several times, so good to see him out there kicking ass.

[00:10:06] I don't know if he'd approve of me saying that.

[00:10:08] I don't know if the DEC approved, but they have their own podcast.

[00:10:10] They can say whatever they want.

[00:10:12] We can say whatever we want.

[00:10:13] So, yeah.

[00:10:15] Yeah.

[00:10:16] So, uh, yeah.

[00:10:19] Tad, you know how that feels, busting your pelvic.

[00:10:21] How's that?

[00:10:22] How does it feel?

[00:10:23] Yeah.

[00:10:23] Nope.

[00:10:24] No words can describe how painful.

[00:10:27] How did that?

[00:10:27] How do you think that happened?

[00:10:29] Well, it would take quite a fall.

[00:10:31] I don't know if he fell from an elevation or not, but, uh, also, you know, given his age,

[00:10:37] 78 years old, he might've had a lot of, um, bone loss, osteopenia, I think is what it's

[00:10:43] called and might've made a more susceptible to a, a significant fracture like that.

[00:10:49] But it's definitely a very, very painful injury.

[00:10:54] And I, I broke my pelvis in two places and I could not get up, could not walk, could not

[00:11:02] sit, could not stand, could not do anything.

[00:11:05] That's a yikes.

[00:11:07] Yeah.

[00:11:07] So I sympathize with that guy.

[00:11:09] Yeah.

[00:11:10] Let's move along.

[00:11:10] It's bringing back some painful memories.

[00:11:13] Of course.

[00:11:14] So, uh, six, speaking of painful memories, uh, this just came out today hot off the press.

[00:11:20] Uh, this is definitely an interesting one.

[00:11:23] So on October 20th, which is two days ago from this recording, which was Sunday at 3 15

[00:11:30] PM forest ranger Dawson, the great Dawson was over on the North South Lake region.

[00:11:35] Awesome dude responded to a call for a hiker with a finger injury on the escarpment trail

[00:11:41] called the Boulder rock in the caterskill wild forest area.

[00:11:44] The 30 year old from New Jersey.

[00:11:47] I'm sorry.

[00:11:48] I can't, I can't.

[00:11:49] This is great.

[00:11:50] The 30 year old from New Jersey planned a hike near North South Lake, but followed the

[00:11:56] wrong path to the escarpment trail and ended up on steep slopes with loose soil and slippery

[00:12:01] leaves.

[00:12:02] Who would have known in September?

[00:12:03] Uh, he slid approximately 15 feet and broke his finger.

[00:12:06] Ranger Dawson splinted the finger and assisted the hiker back to the trail with a mace

[00:12:11] at Ranger Golan.

[00:12:12] Now rangers helped the subject back to the trailhead and declined further medical clear

[00:12:16] resources.

[00:12:17] Resources were clear at 5 30 PM.

[00:12:20] Can't definitely hike out with a broken finger.

[00:12:23] Can you, you gotta call rescue on that one.

[00:12:25] Yeah.

[00:12:25] I'm, I'm surprised that I'm calling for a couple of helicopters, uh, to, to rescue somebody

[00:12:31] with a broken finger, uh, particularly in that area when you're on the wrong trail and you

[00:12:39] broke your finger.

[00:12:40] Right.

[00:12:41] It calls for a fly out.

[00:12:43] Yeah, definitely.

[00:12:44] Definitely got aviation, uh, requirements on that one.

[00:12:47] Betsy, you were over there.

[00:12:48] You know how crazy that area is, especially with a broken finger.

[00:12:52] Oh God.

[00:12:57] It's a broken finger.

[00:12:59] My God.

[00:13:00] Like, how are you going to get out of that?

[00:13:01] Yeah.

[00:13:01] So the, the supposition is he broke his finger, what sliding down the slippery leaf covered

[00:13:09] slope of the escarpment.

[00:13:11] Yeah.

[00:13:12] I'm I wish I could.

[00:13:13] It's not clear.

[00:13:15] So I'm wondering Stosh, did he actually do this on trail or was it just another shoving

[00:13:22] incident in the shut road parking lot?

[00:13:26] Oh, might've been.

[00:13:27] Could be, could be.

[00:13:29] Yeah.

[00:13:29] And the one thing I'm curious about is where, like, if this was an actual like rescue for

[00:13:38] a broken finger or was it because a person was lost?

[00:13:42] And I gotta admit this, this is pretty, pretty funny for a broken finger and you're 15 feet

[00:13:49] off a trail.

[00:13:50] You can probably be like, Hey, I fell 15 feet.

[00:13:52] Let me climb back up to that trail and get to there.

[00:13:55] Yeah.

[00:13:55] So yeah.

[00:13:56] You know, I mean, on the one hand it's easy to make fun of this episode, but maybe the

[00:14:01] person, you know, had something in their makeup that just made this a hugely traumatic

[00:14:07] to them.

[00:14:08] And it was more than just a broken finger more than maybe just being on the wrong trail.

[00:14:14] Who knows?

[00:14:18] I'm not, I'm not, no comment.

[00:14:25] I can't say anything like, like, come on, man.

[00:14:29] Like, what do you, what do you think Betsy?

[00:14:30] I mean, I've had some trouble over there.

[00:14:33] You know, did, did, did you hike out in your incident?

[00:14:38] I did.

[00:14:40] Okay.

[00:14:41] So with a, with a, what was it again?

[00:14:43] You, you hurt your, your hip, right?

[00:14:46] No, in my situation, it was, uh, some, something had gone wrong with my outer knee.

[00:14:53] I, I think it was probably a ligament and, um, I, I wasn't able really to put any more

[00:15:01] weight on it.

[00:15:02] And, um, it, it made it very, very difficult to, to walk out of, uh, the escarpment trail

[00:15:10] by a Dutch or not.

[00:15:12] So.

[00:15:13] But you didn't call forest Rangers to help you out because you had a broken figure 15

[00:15:18] feet off trail.

[00:15:20] You were like, I'm going to do this shit myself.

[00:15:23] Yeah.

[00:15:24] You know?

[00:15:24] And the thing is my situation, I could have, because bottom line is I could have just like

[00:15:29] sat on my rear end and just like inched my way, like an inchworm off the trail.

[00:15:35] Even if it took me 20 hours.

[00:15:38] I think you would have.

[00:15:39] Yeah.

[00:15:40] That's pretty hardcore.

[00:15:42] You know, it's, you know, and a lot of, a lot of people will, I mean, broke a broken

[00:15:49] fingers, broken finger.

[00:15:50] You know, I've, I've done that on the trail as well.

[00:15:52] You know, it was just, you know, I don't even think, I didn't even think it was fricking

[00:15:55] broken.

[00:15:56] I was just like, I had sprained, whatever I'll get out.

[00:15:58] And, you know, other, other times I'm just like being with search and rescue and such,

[00:16:03] such, I'm just like, I'm not going to make that call.

[00:16:07] I'm going to try to haul myself out of here.

[00:16:09] That's what I think in my mind all the time.

[00:16:10] But then that's why I'm also kind of like skeptical of certain steps.

[00:16:17] Stuff like that of ice.

[00:16:19] I'm just like, I don't want to make this a search and rescue, especially with somebody

[00:16:23] who has a podcast about the cat skills and, and chats about these search and rescues.

[00:16:29] And I'll be the one that's on the, the shame block.

[00:16:34] You know, that cat will be like, Hey, Stosh, what about that?

[00:16:37] A little incident that happened on twin mountain.

[00:16:40] You remember that?

[00:16:41] I'd open up, I'd open up my own podcast.

[00:16:43] Then I wouldn't even get on the same podcast issue.

[00:16:46] If that's what happened.

[00:16:48] Hot podcasters.

[00:16:49] Don't call for hall outs.

[00:16:52] Okay.

[00:16:53] It's true.

[00:16:54] It's just like, there's no crying in baseball.

[00:16:56] Odd casters.

[00:16:58] They walk out of the woods.

[00:16:59] Okay.

[00:17:00] That's correct.

[00:17:01] That's correct.

[00:17:02] So crazy incidents and the cat skills one involving a severe incidents.

[00:17:07] One's of all the not severe incident, but like, like Ted said, they'll tell the person

[00:17:10] gets back on the trail.

[00:17:11] And those probably doesn't use flip flops this time.

[00:17:14] So a little bit more catskill news.

[00:17:18] Uh, so New York city, okay.

[00:17:21] Is Wyndham plan for a dent loop trail.

[00:17:23] So I, I looked this up a little bit and, uh, it's pretty cool in Wyndham that they are bringing

[00:17:28] it back a little bit more, uh, local friendly, more, uh, non hiker friendly trails to help

[00:17:37] you look over the beautiful excrement area with the catskills up in the Northern, uh,

[00:17:43] Sullivan County area or green County area.

[00:17:46] Um, 1 point mile, 1.5 mile trail knows the dent loop.

[00:17:50] Uh, best, best.

[00:17:51] So they said, this is the biggest news last week.

[00:17:54] Uh, has received a permit for new from New York city on Friday.

[00:17:58] And, uh, the trail expansion is decided designed to improve access.

[00:18:02] They are often new opportunities for residents and visitors alike while ensuring that wildlife

[00:18:07] preserved and not harm.

[00:18:10] Now, uh, this is, will not be part of the trail on the Wyndham path, which is very highly

[00:18:16] recommended from a lot of people because it is definitely a beautiful area that will bring

[00:18:20] you, uh, in the middle of Wyndham all the way down to sort of the Maple Crest area, flat,

[00:18:26] nice walk.

[00:18:27] Um, it would be a different kind of walkable path.

[00:18:30] It'll be like walking the DEC, uh, conservation trail to be designed for a nature walk experience.

[00:18:36] Uh, so definitely obtaining this permit is definitely a challenge with the DEP and NYC,

[00:18:42] uh, located of course in the Northern Catskills.

[00:18:46] Uh, and, uh, we, we all know that that area, of course, the high concentration of areas

[00:18:53] of Hunter, Wyndham, Shandaken, stuff like that.

[00:18:57] We could all use these new trails to get people kind of influenced into hiking, you know,

[00:19:02] more of walking into the area instead of bringing them to the huge high peaks that we have and

[00:19:07] then getting them caught into these situations of where they get a broken finger or broken pelvis.

[00:19:11] And then we got to rescue them out.

[00:19:13] But maybe, uh, this will influence some people to come on into the Catskills, start off their

[00:19:20] stay, like their times of previous like leaf peeping season of where they'll see these

[00:19:25] beautiful peaks because I'm pretty sure from the Wyndham trail, you can see all three of

[00:19:30] the blackheads, uh, and you know, uh, Claudos Hill and stuff like that.

[00:19:35] Can it catch a beautiful view of the foliage and stuff.

[00:19:38] So this is a, this is a, a good, uh, a good thing to talk about because, you know, once

[00:19:44] again with Chad, we talked about this last episode about, uh, you know, creating new trails and such.

[00:19:49] And then this comes along.

[00:19:51] Yeah, I think it's, I think it's tremendous.

[00:19:53] It's great to see the city of New York, uh, authorized this trail building activity on a

[00:20:00] portion of the 220 square miles of land that the city has acquired since the mid nineties.

[00:20:07] And it goes back to what I said and what you point out, Stash, that last time we spoke, uh, there's a lot of land over in the Western Catskills that can be used to help build a loop trail of about 140 to 150 miles in the Catskills.

[00:20:25] And that would be a tremendous thing to happen.

[00:20:29] What do you think, Betsy?

[00:20:30] You, you in favor of trail building?

[00:20:34] Um, honestly, I, I think I would have to consider it on a case by case basis, but, um, I mean, something like that is going to have its pros and cons.

[00:20:46] So I, I, I would have to think through it before, before I said, despite its statement that I would be for it.

[00:20:55] Spoken like a true politician.

[00:20:58] Are you running, are you running for office this election cycle or is that next, next time around?

[00:21:03] No, no, no.

[00:21:04] I'm not into politics, Ted.

[00:21:07] Thank God.

[00:21:08] Thank God.

[00:21:08] So, I mean, you know, we, we talk about this stuff once in a while and new, new plans come into, to our, our, our view and stuff like that.

[00:21:18] Now we, this once again, we'll, it's, it's not like it's, it's a hard, difficult trail.

[00:21:24] Like we're going up, like we said, Colgate Lake to Thomas Cole or something like that.

[00:21:29] This is a nice, simple plan that will get people influenced into maybe instead of taking the crazy trails up to the viewpoints, they can see, you know, beautiful.

[00:21:38] Viewpoints with just, you know, a simple hike through the, the woods out and back and stuff like that.

[00:21:46] So it's, it's a start.

[00:21:49] Let's just say that, of course, with Wyndham who has that amazing fresh air and have those elite people coming to the, the Wyndham Mountain Club over there that, that ski, the only, the, the pristine people that ski up on the Wyndham Mountain Club or whatever it's called now.

[00:22:06] The elites.

[00:22:08] The elites.

[00:22:09] For the gentrified elite class.

[00:22:13] I get it.

[00:22:15] I get it.

[00:22:15] If I had tons and tons of money, I, I could see myself splurging and buying a membership at some posh ski place to stay away from common folk like Stosh.

[00:22:27] Correct.

[00:22:29] You wouldn't have to wait 2.5 hours in line on Hunter Mountain, right?

[00:22:32] Yeah.

[00:22:33] Stosh.

[00:22:33] I could picture Stosh at the ski hill with like, you know, a big Bluetooth boom box banging.

[00:22:39] What is it?

[00:22:40] A heavy metal mega death, a snowboard, probably stoking on a big cigar cruising down the mountain, cruising down the mountain, taking out little kids as you go by.

[00:22:51] Right.

[00:22:53] That's all correct.

[00:22:54] Except for the cigar.

[00:22:55] Guys like you is why they have Wyndham, Wyndham Mountain Club for Tesla owning skiers.

[00:23:05] Well, wait, wait, wait, there's a, there's somebody amongst our, our bits that owns a Tesla, an intruder.

[00:23:14] I mean, they probably all do down in the mountain club.

[00:23:17] So yeah.

[00:23:18] So one step closer than I, all right, let's move along.

[00:23:22] Let's get onto the real winter talk.

[00:23:24] I know.

[00:23:25] So, I mean, we've had some awesome weather the past week as this has been from like the low sixties to the high, almost the high seventies.

[00:23:33] And it's, and it hit that today when we're recorded now, but I mean, we look a little bit further north up in New Hampshire, Vermont, 17 inches of snow has fallen on Vermont or in Mount Washington since last week.

[00:23:47] And I know even more of that has fallen on Vermont up in Mansfield and stuff like that, that people were skiing up on Mansfield before it was open.

[00:23:55] They would hike to the peak, ski down.

[00:23:58] So just a crazy amount of difference that we have, of course, with the high peaks of the Catskills, the Adirondacks, I know received some snow, but not as much as Mount Washington and, and the high peaks, but we are getting there.

[00:24:14] And, you know, with this 77 degree high that we had today, 77 degrees is absolutely insane, uh, for October 22nd.

[00:24:26] But well, you had 77.

[00:24:28] I think we had 81 here.

[00:24:30] Oh God.

[00:24:31] The valley, the mid Hudson Valley where I am.

[00:24:34] Yeah.

[00:24:34] It was a tremendous day.

[00:24:35] I'll say this.

[00:24:36] It was so nice outside today.

[00:24:39] I just stayed home and worked all day from home and hanging out in the backyard, doing, doing my work thing outdoors.

[00:24:48] That was splendid.

[00:24:50] I was gonna, I, I should have, I should have canceled my dentist appointment and just went hiking.

[00:24:54] Yeah.

[00:24:55] But I didn't.

[00:24:56] Who needs teeth when you can hike?

[00:24:58] Betsy, what about you?

[00:24:59] What was the weather like down in central Jersey today?

[00:25:02] Uh, it was like 80 degrees.

[00:25:05] It was, it was pretty hot.

[00:25:08] Yeah.

[00:25:09] Very sunny, very hot.

[00:25:12] It was a little muggy, wasn't it?

[00:25:14] Like, I'm not muggy, but like, uh, there's a lot of moisture in the air to see like into the distance.

[00:25:19] That's what I had here at least.

[00:25:22] Yeah.

[00:25:22] Still.

[00:25:23] What about winter hiking conditions, Betsy?

[00:25:25] Is that your thing?

[00:25:27] Uh, you know, I, I'm a little concerned about it.

[00:25:32] I mean, you know, we'll talk later, but, um, I have left do the, the four, uh, winter high peaks in order to complete my, uh, 3,500, um, requirements.

[00:25:47] And, um, I, I am concerned about hiking, doing those four winter peaks up.

[00:25:54] I'll be honest with you.

[00:25:56] Yeah.

[00:25:57] What are you concerned about though?

[00:25:58] Uh,

[00:25:59] So you're not going to be able to experience the, the winter?

[00:26:03] No, I'm concerned about the temperatures up there.

[00:26:08] Yeah.

[00:26:08] It's, it varies.

[00:26:10] Yeah.

[00:26:10] It's crazy how different it is from, you know, coming from central New Jersey all the way up to the Catskills, even to where I live in Oneonta.

[00:26:18] It's a huge difference.

[00:26:20] Yeah.

[00:26:21] Yeah.

[00:26:21] I, I think the, the biggest concern I have is, you know, um, being out there for four or five, six hours, you know, in temperatures that are down to the teens and maybe even the single digits.

[00:26:36] And, um, sometimes, sometimes my, my fingertips and my, and my toes don't take too well to those kind of temperatures.

[00:26:45] Oh, yeah.

[00:26:47] Well, we get a lot of days in the winter.

[00:26:50] Uh, the, the temps are actually in the forties.

[00:26:53] We don't have snow on the ground.

[00:26:54] So it's a lot easier to stay warmer, particularly in your extremities on days like that.

[00:27:00] But if you're somebody who does have, um, a susceptibility for your, your toes, your feet to get cold, your fingers to get cold.

[00:27:07] The first thing for winter hiking that you need to buy then is winter boots with insulation built into the boots, because that helps a tremendous amount.

[00:27:19] I occasionally go out with my winter boots on in the winter, which have a 200 gram weight insulation in them.

[00:27:27] Uh, they do have boots with 400 gram or higher.

[00:27:30] So depending on how your body responds or doesn't respond, you can get boots that keep your, your toes warm and toasty.

[00:27:39] Same things for your hands, but it's, you know, winter hiking is a function of knowing what to expect from your body, given the prevailing conditions outside.

[00:27:48] And as long as you're moving and you have the right layers on and in your pack to put on, it's real in the Catskills.

[00:27:59] It's, it's really for the most part mild.

[00:28:02] Yeah.

[00:28:03] Very easy and very fun.

[00:28:05] You, it's hard to say, but you live and learn, you know?

[00:28:08] Yeah.

[00:28:09] Um, well, I mean, Ted, both you and I have hiked in apparel that is shamed nowadays.

[00:28:15] Yeah.

[00:28:17] I remember in the old days where your jeans would get so wet and cold, they would be frozen.

[00:28:22] Oh yeah.

[00:28:23] And it was like a struggle.

[00:28:25] It's almost like a struggle to move your legs.

[00:28:27] They become, yeah.

[00:28:29] What are they called?

[00:28:30] Uh, what are the things that they called that protect you, your, your shins and everything from ticks and, oh my God.

[00:28:37] Guard, gators.

[00:28:38] Gators.

[00:28:39] Yeah.

[00:28:39] You, they basically become gators.

[00:28:42] That's why I, I wore khakis.

[00:28:43] Yeah.

[00:28:44] I don't know why I wore khakis.

[00:28:46] I grew up hiking in jeans and cotton flannel shirts.

[00:28:51] Uh, I got smarter when I started skiing and I discovered wool and wool was my friend, but my early days of hiking in the heart of the snow belt, south of Buffalo was based on cotton.

[00:29:07] Hmm.

[00:29:09] Hmm.

[00:29:09] Like sometimes man.

[00:29:10] Yeah.

[00:29:10] But yeah, but I'll say this, Betsy, you know, hook up with the, the Catskill 3500 club and, uh, you know, pick, pick a day that it's not expected to be super, super windy.

[00:29:24] You know, where the, the starting temps are high twenties, low thirties, obviously it'll get colder, the higher you go, but that's why you bring extra layers to, to put on.

[00:29:35] Yeah.

[00:29:35] You know, just a little bit before you reach the summit, you know, put on a layer.

[00:29:39] So when you get, get to the summit, you stay warm and toasty.

[00:29:42] A lot of people make the mistake of waiting too long to put that extra layer on.

[00:29:46] Mm-hmm .

[00:29:46] Then they hang out at the summit.

[00:29:48] They start to get really cold and there's no more further uphill climbing to warm them up.

[00:29:55] So going downhill, they start to freeze.

[00:29:58] Mm-hmm .

[00:29:58] So be sure to layer up, you know, that last few minutes before you crest over the summit and you will be okay.

[00:30:07] Oh yeah.

[00:30:08] Mm-hmm .

[00:30:09] And it's those, you know, those winter experiences that you'll get the experience that you have and you'll only grow upon that.

[00:30:16] Like that's, that's what I did.

[00:30:18] You know, I had once again, khakis, I hiked Panther mountain and khakis and a massive, I don't even know what the hell the kind of coat was that I hiked in.

[00:30:27] And I just, my, my, all my, my legs were frozen.

[00:30:33] My legs weren't frozen, but the, the whole khakis were frozen.

[00:30:36] And like I said, they were like the shin guards.

[00:30:39] Yeah.

[00:30:39] And we met a guy on, on giant ledge who was hiking in snowshoes where we had a snow storm that dumped at least like, I'm, I'm pretty sure it was four to five inches in a matter of two or three hours.

[00:30:50] And he was looking at us in snowshoes.

[00:30:52] And I, I kind of now look back and I'm just like, yeah, it was, I, we were one of those people that we look upon and we're just like, God damn those idiots.

[00:31:02] But then I was like, why was he hiking in snowshoes when we could just do this in regular Michael Spreex?

[00:31:07] Like he was just, and I don't, I don't know, but we survived.

[00:31:10] It was one of the most unforgettable experiences that I'll have in the Catskills that me and my friend just went and did it and came back.

[00:31:19] And we were just like, okay, we got to change what we have now because that was not dumb, but it was close to it.

[00:31:26] Yeah. And I, I just want to let everybody know who's never met or seen pictures of Stosh when he says all my legs, he just has two legs when he says that.

[00:31:36] True. It's not like he has four, six or eight legs when he says all my legs.

[00:31:41] So Betsy, Betsy, do you have snowshoes?

[00:31:44] I do have snowshoes.

[00:31:46] Good.

[00:31:47] I got a pair of snowshoes that were designed for the French Alps or by a company called TSL.

[00:31:54] Very nice.

[00:31:56] I know those.

[00:31:57] Yeah.

[00:31:58] Yeah.

[00:31:58] That's a good, that's a good choice for your typical Catskill hiking conditions when you're not dealing with significant fresh snow to break through.

[00:32:10] They're not as good as some of the others when you have heavier snow to break through, but they're a good choice when you're hiking with a group and the, the snow that you're going through is not, you know, more than I'm going to say six, eight inches.

[00:32:26] Still significant, significant amount for the day and age now.

[00:32:30] Yeah.

[00:32:30] Now it's like, you know, we, we barely get that much, but for those of you who are listening that don't have snowshoes and you're going to head up to the Cats this winter to hike checkout, I think, what is it?

[00:32:39] The slide mountain hotel has the snowshoe exchange or rental sharing program.

[00:32:47] Yeah.

[00:32:47] So it's with the Catskill truck conditions, right?

[00:32:49] Yeah.

[00:32:50] So yeah, reach out to them and you can hook up with a pair of snowshoes and go out and have some fun, which I guess brings me to the only warning that we need to give our listeners and particularly Betsy who hasn't ventured out in the winter.

[00:33:05] The, the biggest problem with winter hiking is what, what is it Stosh?

[00:33:11] The biggest problem with winter hiking.

[00:33:14] Well, I mean, I, I, to me it's, it's mountain lions.

[00:33:18] Well, it's, but the mountain lions mainly year round, they're harder to get away from in the winter, but they're easier to see.

[00:33:26] But the real problem with winter hiking, in my opinion, and I think the U S surgeon general backs me up on this.

[00:33:32] It's addictive.

[00:33:34] Oh yeah.

[00:33:35] Yeah.

[00:33:35] Once you get started winter hiking, you don't have to deal with the heat, the humidity, the bugs, right?

[00:33:41] Yeah.

[00:33:42] You just, you, and you, you literally, the more snow you get, the better able you are to just go anywhere you want out there.

[00:33:52] So.

[00:33:52] Betsy, you become addicted.

[00:33:54] Just, you just wait.

[00:33:55] Just wait.

[00:33:55] Yeah.

[00:33:56] We're warning you now.

[00:33:56] So you, you can't sue us.

[00:33:58] Yeah.

[00:34:00] So, you know, we, you talk about, uh, winter hiking and mountain lions.

[00:34:06] So I was sent this by my friend, Todd bold, uh, October 20th, two days ago, official.

[00:34:12] This is official mountain lion scene in Massachusetts.

[00:34:15] So an animal control officer, officer, Western Massachusetts says she believes, believes.

[00:34:21] And this is once again, this is official, uh, a local resident did in fact, see a mountain lion.

[00:34:26] So Kelly wants wants, wants got, uh, an animal control officer from several towns, including Goshen, Massachusetts, where the animal was reportedly seen said, of course, in a Facebook post on Friday, October.

[00:34:40] Uh, uh, October 18th, that she can confirm that it was a mountain lion that the residents spotted.

[00:34:47] And so a lot of things he said, it was, uh, confirmed, uh, through, of course, pictures and, uh, saying that, uh, that the mountain lion population in Massachusetts, and there have been only two cases that is a supportive mountain lion in Massachusetts.

[00:35:04] It was supposed to have taken, taken place near the Quabbin reservoir.

[00:35:09] And, uh, beyond that, I can't find much about this case that said that it was confirmed.

[00:35:16] I did look on that Facebook post, which was really interesting because it, the comments were shut off and I was just like, oh, that's kind of a little sketchy because you know, you, once you, you shut off the comments, you basically know that you're not having a case.

[00:35:34] And a lot of people in that, once again, I love Facebook because they're just like a lot of people, like, how can you believe that mountain lions don't exist here?

[00:35:43] How can you, uh, believe that they haven't been seen?

[00:35:46] Well, I, uh, not to, not to burst anybody's bubble, but there are thousands and thousands and thousands of trail cameras out there.

[00:35:56] But every mountain lion picture we've had has been blurry.

[00:36:01] Number one or number two has been proven that it's been down in the Southern States of Tennessee and Georgia and North Carolina and stuff like that.

[00:36:10] But so, uh, once again, up in the Catskills, I have never seen a mountain lion print in my days of hiking.

[00:36:18] Ted, have you?

[00:36:21] Yeah, of course.

[00:36:22] But Stosh, the way you're talking, it sounds like the next thing, the next thing you're going to tell me is there's no Santa.

[00:36:28] That Santa's not real.

[00:36:33] I don't know what to say about that one.

[00:36:35] Uh, they're what mountain folks.

[00:36:37] Mountain lions are real.

[00:36:39] Stosh is just kidding.

[00:36:40] Well, they're real.

[00:36:41] Yeah.

[00:36:42] Of course, but they're not real in the Northeast.

[00:36:46] We just had a news story that says they're in, they've infiltrated into Massachusetts.

[00:36:52] Obviously, they got there by passing through the Catskills.

[00:36:56] Yeah.

[00:36:57] I mean, we had that.

[00:36:58] They, I mean, everyone knows that Route 28 is the main thoroughfare to get through the Catskills.

[00:37:04] That's true.

[00:37:04] I'm sure, I'm sure there was a caravan this summer of mountain lions one night making their way along the Ashokan Reservoir to get out to, yeah.

[00:37:15] So, yeah.

[00:37:15] Everybody, don't worry, don't worry.

[00:37:17] We're not, we're not one of those podcasts that are mountain lion deniers.

[00:37:25] And, you know, I, I, you read, I will post this, this, this Facebook page because it's hilarious.

[00:37:31] It really is hilarious.

[00:37:32] It's like everybody, a guy showed me a picture of this.

[00:37:36] Prove it.

[00:37:37] Uh, I saw one in our backyard.

[00:37:39] Prove it.

[00:37:40] Uh, you know, a guy's a friend of a friend, a friend of a cousin of a friend saw a mountain lion.

[00:37:45] Prove it.

[00:37:46] Well, Stosh, it really sounds like we need to get our head mountain lion investigator out on the trail.

[00:37:54] Um, although he's only two years old, right.

[00:37:57] But our toddler trooper mountain lion investigator is going to get out there and, and check out this story as soon as mom changes his diaper.

[00:38:09] Yeah.

[00:38:10] I just, I just can't believe stuff like this.

[00:38:13] Like, it's just, it's just amazing.

[00:38:16] And then, and then a lot of people post, of course, pictures of bobcats and they're like, is this a mountain lion?

[00:38:23] And it has a tail the size of my hand.

[00:38:25] Yeah.

[00:38:26] Yeah.

[00:38:26] That six foot tail is a mountain lion.

[00:38:29] You know, it's just, it's just hilarious.

[00:38:32] Like, you know, I will point you to this.

[00:38:35] I'm going to send this link to everybody that listens to the podcast and show you this because this person, I'm going to read the quote here.

[00:38:42] I have never seen a large feline cat in the wild in Emma, uh, in Massachusetts.

[00:38:47] However, yesterday at the corner of Munson and Brian and Chesterfield, I took this video of what may be a mountain lion.

[00:38:53] And there's barely any tail of the, of, of the, of the cat.

[00:38:57] And, and it's walking like a bobcat.

[00:38:59] Like, you know, you've seen the, like videos about wines and they are, they basically are very big, like domesticated cats.

[00:39:10] They just, they step every precious step as a step and stuff like that.

[00:39:14] It's, it's beautiful.

[00:39:15] It's majestic with the bobcats.

[00:39:18] They're just like, they're stepping like every step is a process step and they're, they're adorable, but you know, they're, they're out to hunt and stuff like that.

[00:39:26] So with the mountain lions, it's a whole different story.

[00:39:29] And it's just, it just, I just loved hearing about this stuff and to see what people say about good old mountain lions up here in the Northeast, because there hasn't been one liable evidence besides that, that whole thing that happened.

[00:39:47] And I don't even know when that was in Connecticut where the mountain lion got hit with the car.

[00:39:52] And that was the last time that I've heard about anything.

[00:39:57] And I don't even know that was true.

[00:39:59] Well, gee, I don't know, Stosh.

[00:40:02] I mean, you, you want to start telling us now that there's no such thing as Bigfoot?

[00:40:06] This is, you know, I mean, this is what a bummer, man.

[00:40:08] You're on such a down note tonight.

[00:40:10] I am.

[00:40:10] You should, was it, what happened at the dentist's office?

[00:40:15] Is that, you know?

[00:40:16] I need to get a freaking root canal.

[00:40:18] That's what, how did you know I went to the dentist?

[00:40:21] Betsy, do you remember him saying that earlier?

[00:40:24] Did I?

[00:40:24] Yes.

[00:40:24] Yeah, that he would have rather been hiking than at the dentist's office.

[00:40:27] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:40:28] See, Stosh, some people pay attention.

[00:40:31] Betsy and I, we've been taking good notes.

[00:40:33] We're listening.

[00:40:35] It's been a long week.

[00:40:37] Betsy knows that.

[00:40:38] It's been a long weekend.

[00:40:39] What weekend?

[00:40:40] Yes.

[00:40:40] Let's just say that.

[00:40:41] Oh, okay.

[00:40:41] Because it is Tuesday after all.

[00:40:43] Yes, it is.

[00:40:44] It is.

[00:40:45] It's been a long weekend.

[00:40:46] So if you have any mountain lion spots, please send me a picture.

[00:40:50] Don't send the DEC a picture because they will just deny it.

[00:40:54] Send me a picture.

[00:40:55] I will verify it because I am a 112% mountain lion expert.

[00:41:00] We know that.

[00:41:01] So last chat of the night, we're going to talk about a man that was dead, found dead in the wildlife, and his wife was rescued four days later out in the Maine area.

[00:41:17] So a man died and his wife was rescued after being lost for four days in the Maine woods.

[00:41:23] Now, this was reported from Boston.com.

[00:41:26] Pamela Hampstetter, 72, of Alexander, Maine, was rescued by a Maine game wardens in the woods about a mile from their home in Alexander, Maine.

[00:41:35] Officials with the Maine Department and Inland Fisheries and Wildlife said that her husband, John, 82, went for a hike on a network of trails behind the house on October 13th and were joined by their two dogs.

[00:41:50] Now, John Hampstetter reportedly fell and couldn't get up again, and the couple had wandered off trail.

[00:41:55] Pamela Hampstetter, when to get help, became lost.

[00:41:58] Neither had a cell phone on them.

[00:41:59] So rescuers began searching for them Wednesday night after a concerned neighbor alerted authorities.

[00:42:06] Pamela was reported severely hypothermic when rescuers found her on Thursday.

[00:42:11] Her husband's body was discovered about 200 yards away.

[00:42:14] So unfortunate incident in Maine.

[00:42:17] Now, this was October 21st.

[00:42:20] Of course, amazing that she survived.

[00:42:23] I'm very curious of how she survived.

[00:42:28] But it's got to be a rough instance.

[00:42:30] And I hate that.

[00:42:31] God, this is horrible.

[00:42:32] I end this on a bad note.

[00:42:33] God, I end shooting the shit on a bad note.

[00:42:36] So, sorry to say that.

[00:42:39] Yeah.

[00:42:39] Jeez, you know, no mountain lions, no Bigfoot, no Santa.

[00:42:42] And now you're closing it out with this sad tale.

[00:42:46] Husband and wife go out for a little backyard walk, and he falls down.

[00:42:53] Can't get up.

[00:42:56] And somehow he dies.

[00:42:58] I don't know.

[00:42:59] You know, they don't tell us if he had some type of internal injuries, hypothermia, or whatnot.

[00:43:04] But she had early stages of hypothermia.

[00:43:08] Pretty sad they didn't have cell phones.

[00:43:11] Obviously, it would seem that would have made a difference.

[00:43:14] What do you think, Betsy?

[00:43:16] I, you know, I read about that story.

[00:43:20] And her body temperature actually, she wasn't, she was hypothermic, I think, because her body temperature had gone down to like 90 point something.

[00:43:32] And hypothermia, I think, is at 95.

[00:43:35] And I think the only reason why she survived is because they had two dogs with them.

[00:43:42] One of the dogs went back to the house.

[00:43:46] And the other dog stayed on top of her.

[00:43:50] Wow.

[00:43:51] So, yeah.

[00:43:52] So, one of the two dogs, I think, probably may have saved her life.

[00:43:58] But I just want to show you, you know, how much dogs understand a situation.

[00:44:05] You know, one is going back to the house.

[00:44:08] And the other one is staying behind with their mom.

[00:44:13] So, fascinating.

[00:44:16] Yeah.

[00:44:17] I read that, too, that the one dog went home and the neighbors saw that the dog was outside, but the owners weren't around.

[00:44:25] And the rescuers, when they found the wife, noted that the dog had been lying on her, presumably to keep her warm.

[00:44:34] The husband was found dead about 200 yards away.

[00:44:38] Wow.

[00:44:39] I mean, if you think about it, saying 200 yards is not a lot, but that is quite a bit of mountain.

[00:44:46] 200 yards, two football fields.

[00:44:48] Yeah.

[00:44:48] Well, depending how, you know, forested or wooded the area is, it could be very difficult to get through that area without knowing the way to go from point A to point B,

[00:45:00] where it might have been clearer area, more visible.

[00:45:06] But again, it's sad that life had to end that way.

[00:45:12] Yeah.

[00:45:13] Hopefully he didn't suffer.

[00:45:16] Yeah.

[00:45:18] It's crazy to think about, but, you know, once again, I mean, even the simplest of walks out from your backyard could result in unfortunate circumstances like this.

[00:45:29] And, uh, thoughts goes to, uh, of course the wife that was with him and such.

[00:45:36] And once again, thank God for the dogs, uh, that helped about.

[00:45:41] And if that was true, you know, once again, dogs are, are to me, our life.

[00:45:46] We all know that.

[00:45:47] I mean, I know that.

[00:45:50] So, yeah.

[00:45:51] So thank you guys for shooting the shit.

[00:45:54] Is that it?

[00:45:55] Is that it?

[00:45:55] Yeah.

[00:45:56] I, you know, with sad news like that, I don't want to shoot any more shit.

[00:46:00] Yeah.

[00:46:00] I mean, I would like to, to unfortunately, uh, say this is, uh, this, this episode is dedicated to my, my buddy Dexter that just passed away Saturday.

[00:46:10] My good old boy, uh, was 14 years old and it was, uh, it was a great time with him.

[00:46:16] He was a Corgi.

[00:46:17] He was phenomenal.

[00:46:20] So, yeah, let's get away from that shit.

[00:46:23] Let's thank the monthly supporters.

[00:46:24] Darren White, Vicky Ferrell, Mike Sawatowski, Jim C, Betsy Anderson, Denise Weiss, Vanessa Joseph, Jim C, Michael.

[00:46:32] Love you guys.

[00:46:33] Thank you guys for supporting the show and believing after 144 episodes.

[00:46:36] Really appreciate it.

[00:46:38] Also capture your love story against breathtaking backdrops with outdoor chronicles photography.

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[00:47:28] So, Coffees mentions.

[00:47:30] Todd Bolger's weather privately owned, but some public access at Bear Nature Preserve.

[00:47:37] Ted, are you familiar with this area?

[00:47:39] Oh, yeah.

[00:47:40] It's five, six miles from where I live.

[00:47:44] Oh.

[00:47:44] Yeah, it's just southwest of the Sam's Point area of the Schwan Gunk Range.

[00:47:54] It's up.

[00:47:55] You have to drive up the range the same way, up to Cragsmore.

[00:47:59] Instead of turning right and going over to Sam's Point, the Ice Caves area, you turn left and you head to the Bear Preserve area.

[00:48:08] It's got views to the west, and it's delightful.

[00:48:13] You have to pay a modest fee to get in, but it's worth it.

[00:48:17] It fills up quick on the weekends, though.

[00:48:20] I can only imagine.

[00:48:21] I can only imagine.

[00:48:23] Betsy, you've ever been there?

[00:48:25] No, I haven't.

[00:48:27] Okay.

[00:48:28] All right.

[00:48:28] All right.

[00:48:28] Neither have I.

[00:48:30] So, also, Scion 72, Sean was at, looks like it was down at the Neversink area.

[00:48:41] His initial plan was to hike in the Adirondacks.

[00:48:43] Thank God he didn't hike there.

[00:48:45] But he wasn't feeling the four-hour drive.

[00:48:47] God, I would never feel that four-hour drive.

[00:48:49] This is way too much.

[00:48:50] So, instead, he visited the first time spot outside the line, of course.

[00:48:55] It turned out to be a really warm day, and he was wishing that he hadn't worn his long-sleeved plants.

[00:49:01] I mean, he'd have the zip-up pants.

[00:49:03] So, Enzo, his amazing dog, loved the Neversink winter watching the Fly Fisher Peoples and the waterfalls.

[00:49:10] He hiked all the trails 10.2 miles with about 2,000 feet of elevation again.

[00:49:16] So, awesome time for Sean to go out in the Catskills.

[00:49:21] And, of course, it was an awesome weekend.

[00:49:24] So, hopefully, Sean has rated the show.

[00:49:27] And that, you know, he didn't say where he was.

[00:49:30] He said last time he was at the Huckleberry area.

[00:49:33] So, I'm not quite sure where he was with this area.

[00:49:36] Did you see that post?

[00:49:38] Yeah, he's, this Neversink River area.

[00:49:41] Well, we're all familiar with the Neversink River, the East Branch up in Denning.

[00:49:46] And as you go downstream into Sullivan County, south of Route 17, the four-lane interstate, is what they call the Neversink River unique area.

[00:49:58] Yeah.

[00:49:59] And the trails have been improved over the last 5, 6, 8, 10 years.

[00:50:06] They're better marked.

[00:50:08] The area is getting more and more popular.

[00:50:11] But I'm going to say it's still relatively undiscovered.

[00:50:16] And as Sean points out...

[00:50:20] Unique.

[00:50:20] Yeah, it's unique.

[00:50:20] And it's a worthwhile side trip to take when you want to avoid crowded areas.

[00:50:26] You get to the water.

[00:50:28] You get to see some waterfalls.

[00:50:30] It's beautiful terrain over there.

[00:50:33] Great idea to go over there and do some hiking.

[00:50:38] Yeah.

[00:50:39] It's, I would say, you know, I've been over there.

[00:50:43] Very, like you said, unique area that you can have a bunch of log roads and stuff like that.

[00:50:49] It can get confusing once in a while.

[00:50:52] But it's absolutely phenomenal area.

[00:50:55] Secluded area.

[00:50:56] And once again, if you get off the trails and you stay away about 2 miles out,

[00:51:00] you can get away from everybody.

[00:51:03] So, fantastic.

[00:51:04] So, thank you guys.

[00:51:06] Once again, rate the show.

[00:51:07] I don't know if that does any good.

[00:51:10] So.

[00:51:10] It makes us feel good.

[00:51:12] And that's what it's all about.

[00:51:13] Exactly.

[00:51:14] Yeah.

[00:51:15] Rate the show on, you know, Apple Podcasts, Spotify.

[00:51:20] I don't know.

[00:51:20] I don't know what to do.

[00:51:22] Whatever.

[00:51:23] Share the show.

[00:51:23] Do whatever you can.

[00:51:25] Love us.

[00:51:26] Whatever.

[00:51:26] So, anybody jerking anything tonight besides me?

[00:51:30] Don't.

[00:51:31] Wait.

[00:51:31] Wait.

[00:51:31] Wait for it.

[00:51:32] Wait for it.

[00:51:33] I'm going to do the crack.

[00:51:34] I'm good.

[00:51:34] Right.

[00:51:34] Right near it.

[00:51:35] Right near it.

[00:51:35] Get it up there.

[00:51:36] Okay.

[00:51:36] Everybody ready?

[00:51:37] Let's have a moment of silence.

[00:51:41] Did you hear it?

[00:51:42] No.

[00:51:43] No.

[00:51:43] Oh, that's awful.

[00:51:44] I'm not going to do it again.

[00:51:46] I only have one.

[00:51:47] Well, that's pretty disappointing.

[00:51:49] Yeah.

[00:51:49] So, what do you have, Ted?

[00:51:50] I'm going back to the Murphy's Imported Stout.

[00:51:56] It's the last of four.

[00:51:58] I got a four-pack, and each one has been just okay.

[00:52:05] I really hope that I have not gotten you back into drinking.

[00:52:08] Like, you were an alcoholic before, right?

[00:52:10] No.

[00:52:10] But like I said, I didn't go to the office today, and I'm not going to say how many brewskis

[00:52:14] I had in the backyard when I was working.

[00:52:19] Nobody needs to know that information.

[00:52:21] Do you clock in and clock out?

[00:52:23] I hope not.

[00:52:24] Me?

[00:52:24] No.

[00:52:25] Good.

[00:52:25] I sort of do, and I sort of don't.

[00:52:28] Okay.

[00:52:29] Because I do my own thing.

[00:52:32] Betsy, how about you?

[00:52:33] You got anything?

[00:52:35] Just drinking a glass of water, because when I start talking to you, you'll understand

[00:52:42] that I've got to be careful what I drink right now, with the understanding that this is being

[00:52:48] recorded and broadcast, and the stuff that I have to say, I need to be careful how I phrase

[00:52:55] myself.

[00:52:55] So, you'll understand in a moment.

[00:52:57] All right.

[00:52:58] So, butter.

[00:52:59] Yeah.

[00:53:00] We're more interested now.

[00:53:02] I know.

[00:53:02] I was going to say, Tad, you got a little stuff on your mustache right there, but I'm trying

[00:53:06] to make it legit, right?

[00:53:08] You know?

[00:53:08] It was legit.

[00:53:09] Port it with the little head.

[00:53:11] Life.

[00:53:12] So, you know, Betsy, this, once again, no hold.

[00:53:14] You know that.

[00:53:15] It's a no hold bar podcast.

[00:53:16] You can do whatever you want.

[00:53:18] So, be free.

[00:53:20] Let's just say that.

[00:53:21] Yeah.

[00:53:21] I mean, you know, after all, Betsy, before we move on to your drinks, Dosh.

[00:53:25] You are one of our only two listeners.

[00:53:28] So, it's not like a big deal if you, you know, say a few inappropriate things.

[00:53:32] I'm just putting that out there.

[00:53:33] All right.

[00:53:33] Stosh, why don't you, I'm going to guess it's an awestruck cider.

[00:53:38] Wow.

[00:53:39] How'd you guess that?

[00:53:41] Yeah.

[00:53:41] Because I'm, I'm just that.

[00:53:42] You know, it's 70, it was 70 something degrees today.

[00:53:45] So, I'm, I'm drinking their, their honeycomb cider, which is of course based off of like

[00:53:51] honey and stuff like that of the summer.

[00:53:53] I just, I can't get enough of this.

[00:53:55] If it's 70 degrees, I'm going to be drinking some summer cider instead of some winter cider.

[00:54:01] I mean, they have fall cider too.

[00:54:03] So, but.

[00:54:04] And maybe, and maybe spring cider.

[00:54:07] Yes.

[00:54:08] Mud season cider, shoulder season cider.

[00:54:11] Maybe.

[00:54:12] Season cider.

[00:54:13] Correct.

[00:54:14] Yeah.

[00:54:15] So it's, it's delicious.

[00:54:17] So phenomenal.

[00:54:18] So awestruck once again.

[00:54:20] So previous hikes, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one that hasn't done a previous hike.

[00:54:25] So Betsy, have you done a previous hike?

[00:54:29] Yeah.

[00:54:30] I, um, my most recent hike was on Thursday and, uh, I did the, uh, the blackhead range.

[00:54:40] Nice.

[00:54:40] Nice.

[00:54:41] Yeah.

[00:54:42] It was a very eventful hike for me because I did my 33rd, uh, Catskill high peak on that

[00:54:50] hike.

[00:54:51] And I left it, uh, purposefully for the end because I wanted, uh, your, your, your mountain

[00:55:00] to be my last mountain.

[00:55:02] So my very last, uh, peak, uh, was Thomas Cole.

[00:55:08] So I saved that for last, Stash, for you.

[00:55:11] Well, thank you.

[00:55:12] Where, where was your approach from?

[00:55:15] Um.

[00:55:17] Was it from the Lockwood Gap, kind of like the parking area, or was it from Barnum Road,

[00:55:23] the other side?

[00:55:25] Um, no, we, we parked at Thomas Cole Trailhead at the end of Barnum Road.

[00:55:32] Nice.

[00:55:33] And we, uh, we approached the, um, Blackhead range from Big Hollow Road to ascend, uh, Blackhead

[00:55:42] first.

[00:55:43] Oh, wow.

[00:55:44] Can, can I, can I help, I can't help but say that I have never done that whole traverse.

[00:55:51] Wow.

[00:55:52] Shame.

[00:55:54] Shame.

[00:55:56] So congrats to you.

[00:55:58] What, what'd you, was it a beautiful weekend or beautiful time?

[00:56:01] Um, yeah, it was on Thursday and it was, it was extremely beautiful weather.

[00:56:07] And, um, I think, you know, honestly, what, what stood out the most for me during that hike

[00:56:15] was, um, that, that beautiful lone pine tree on the top of, uh, Camel's Hump.

[00:56:23] Yep.

[00:56:24] I, um, that, that pine tree, that image of that pine tree from, from a distance, I saw it

[00:56:32] and I was like wondering is, is that actually a lone pine tree standing on the top of that,

[00:56:41] you know, that hill.

[00:56:42] And then as we came closer to, to it, I realized, my God, it is.

[00:56:48] And it's right on top of Camel's Hump.

[00:56:51] And, you know, that was very powerful image for me.

[00:56:55] So, yeah, it was a great hike.

[00:56:57] And, hmm?

[00:56:59] Go ahead, go ahead.

[00:57:00] Now, keep, keep going.

[00:57:02] Oh, and, um, it, it was also a very significant hike because it was the, um, that hike included

[00:57:10] the 33rd high peak that I needed to do before, um, banging out the, the four winters.

[00:57:18] So, very, very significant for me.

[00:57:21] Yeah.

[00:57:21] Yeah.

[00:57:22] And trail conditions are probably fabulous.

[00:57:25] I would, I would assume.

[00:57:27] Yeah.

[00:57:28] You know, it's, it's getting a little bit more sketchy when you're putting your foot down

[00:57:34] and not quite sure what's underneath because of the, the coverage from the leaves.

[00:57:38] But, um, I try and poke around with my poles before I actually step down into what might turn

[00:57:46] out to be a hole.

[00:57:47] Um, but I, I'm, I'm trying to be careful even with the, the foliage covering the ground.

[00:57:55] So.

[00:57:56] Were you, were you able to, to witness like peak or was it a little bit after peak?

[00:58:01] Uh, it was after.

[00:58:03] Yeah.

[00:58:03] Okay.

[00:58:04] Um, yeah, yeah.

[00:58:07] I mean, there, there was some coloring, but, um, the leaves for the most part are, are

[00:58:13] starting to turn on the Brown side.

[00:58:16] And in all honesty, um, I didn't really see like a lot of popping, popping color, um, in

[00:58:25] the Catskills this year.

[00:58:26] You know, I was kind of hoping I would see like bright yellows and oranges and reds and

[00:58:32] just this, you know, amazing array of, of colors.

[00:58:36] But I, I didn't really experience that, um, this year.

[00:58:40] I don't know.

[00:58:40] Did you?

[00:58:41] I got to admit, I experienced that up in Oneonta, but beyond Oneonta, anywhere south of

[00:58:49] that, like it was, I would say more of like a mustard, like a honey mustard kind of color.

[00:58:54] It was a little bit of, a little bit Brown yellow, but anywhere south or north of Oneonta,

[00:59:04] like we got to experience some hot, bright colors here.

[00:59:09] And I was just blown away what I got up here.

[00:59:13] And then like, like I said, I traveled down to Platykill and we went down to Margaretville.

[00:59:17] So there wasn't hot colors like, uh, there could have been.

[00:59:21] And, you know, and I'm just, I'm just glad you got out there and, uh, you know, you got

[00:59:26] to see what we call the Christmas tree.

[00:59:28] That's that is we've, I know my, my friend Greg has decorated that in the past.

[00:59:35] I want to decorate that even more because we, you can see that tree from everywhere.

[00:59:38] I know it's illegal, but you know what?

[00:59:41] It's, it's absolutely phenomenal to see that tree from, you know, you're going from

[00:59:46] 23, 23 and Wyndham.

[00:59:48] And you can see that, that tree up on a high point and stuff like that.

[00:59:52] And it's all lit up and it's, it's the Christmas tree.

[00:59:55] It's sitting on top of the peak of Camel's Hump, but it's beautiful.

[00:59:58] So yeah.

[01:00:00] Were the trails well taken care of from Thomas, from Thomas Cole to Camel's Hump?

[01:00:04] Do I have to go back up there?

[01:00:06] No.

[01:00:06] No.

[01:00:07] Fantastic.

[01:00:09] Good, good.

[01:00:10] And what'd you think about the, uh, the trail from Camel's Hump down to Barnum Road?

[01:00:15] That's one of the most phenomenal trails that I've ever been on in the Catskills.

[01:00:20] Yeah.

[01:00:20] You know, I, I honestly, I, I enjoyed that entire hike.

[01:00:25] It was, it was kind of short.

[01:00:27] Um, it, um, from, I started to ascend Blackhead and all the way to where we were exiting, uh,

[01:00:35] to get off, um, Camel's Hump.

[01:00:39] It, you know, I, I think it was only like seven point something miles.

[01:00:43] So, you know, it was, it was a pretty short day, but I, I enjoyed myself nonetheless.

[01:00:50] I, I prefer to be out there, you know, from morning until night, but it, you know, the

[01:00:56] day lasted about a little bit more than half, half a day.

[01:01:00] Um, and, and seven point something miles, I think is what we covered.

[01:01:05] So, but, um, the trail conditions were beautiful.

[01:01:08] Um, no trash.

[01:01:11] Um, yeah, easy peasy.

[01:01:13] It was great.

[01:01:15] Yeah.

[01:01:15] Very well taken care of.

[01:01:17] Nice.

[01:01:18] We're glad you had a good time.

[01:01:20] Good.

[01:01:20] Good.

[01:01:20] Only four more peaks left.

[01:01:23] Yeah.

[01:01:24] The, the four winters and then I'm done.

[01:01:27] Yeah.

[01:01:28] Nice.

[01:01:28] Well, can't wait.

[01:01:29] Can't wait.

[01:01:30] So, Ted, what about you, sir?

[01:01:32] Yeah, I, um, I headed out Saturday.

[01:01:36] Um, wanted to get a quick hike in.

[01:01:39] Didn't want to hike something that I had done before.

[01:01:44] So I have heard of a certain patch of old growth and lost Cove that I set out

[01:01:52] to find.

[01:01:52] I don't think I found it, but what I did is I parked at lost Cove and, uh, went down

[01:01:59] the road to hike the Ridge that goes from the road up to the true summit of

[01:02:04] Balsam mountain, uh, which looked to be, or has been recently logged, you know,

[01:02:11] sometime in the past 50, 75 years, I'm going to say.

[01:02:16] And there was some pretty interesting rocks up there.

[01:02:19] I shared some photos with Danny Davis because I saw some things I thought he

[01:02:22] would be interested in and, uh, got to the summit, banged a right on the trail,

[01:02:29] went down the trail about three tenths of a mile past the lookout.

[01:02:33] And then went down that ridge to the end of lost Cove road.

[01:02:40] And that ridge was much older growth forest.

[01:02:45] Um, very little undergrowth at the higher elevations.

[01:02:48] It was really remarkable.

[01:02:49] It was a pleasant hike down.

[01:02:51] Not it was steep, uh, but not ledgy.

[01:02:54] There wasn't many rock outcroppings.

[01:02:57] At least I didn't hit anything of interest or significance on the way down.

[01:03:03] And I think, uh, I did the whole hike and, you know, around four hours or so.

[01:03:09] It was roughly six miles, 2300 vert of gain and just a pleasant area.

[01:03:15] Then on the way back, I, uh, went down the frost Valley road, past the hairpin at giant ledge

[01:03:22] Panther, and then on past the parking area for slide.

[01:03:27] And I was overwhelmed at the number of cars that were parked on the road, where and how

[01:03:35] they were parked along the side of the road.

[01:03:37] I thought it was just a crazy.

[01:03:38] And I'm glad that I didn't go there for the day because it just looked like, um, you know,

[01:03:45] just craziness with all the people, all the parking.

[01:03:48] I'm sure the trails over there were crowded.

[01:03:50] I only saw two people on my hike at the lookout, uh, Eric and Allison from Levitt town.

[01:03:58] They seemed to hike all over the place.

[01:04:01] Uh, Eric was on his, it finished his fifth round in the cats.

[01:04:06] Allison.

[01:04:07] Yeah.

[01:04:08] Allison was finishing up her third round.

[01:04:11] They hike in the Adirondacks, the whites.

[01:04:13] They get around their avid hikers.

[01:04:16] They were hiking balsam in the morning and sugar loaf in the afternoon.

[01:04:21] What an unusual.

[01:04:23] Yeah.

[01:04:24] What a, yeah.

[01:04:24] Yeah.

[01:04:25] Well, cause it, it, they're gridding.

[01:04:27] They don't want to admit that they're gridding, but those, that's how you go out and grid.

[01:04:31] Yeah.

[01:04:31] If you're, if you're, if you need those mountains in the month of October and this is your only

[01:04:36] time you're going to be here in October, then you do like, I called them production hikes

[01:04:41] when I was gridding, I'd come up here and if I had a knockoff rusk, I was going to do

[01:04:46] rusk and not do hunter and Southwest hunter.

[01:04:51] I would do rusk.

[01:04:52] And then if like balsam Lake was another mountain I needed for the month, I'd get in my car,

[01:04:57] drive from rusk over to balsam Lake.

[01:04:59] And I do balsam Lake, you know, you almost felt like you were a UPS driver.

[01:05:04] Yeah.

[01:05:05] These random stops.

[01:05:06] And you know, at times it, it, there was kind of like this drag to it because it, it

[01:05:14] was sucking some of the funds, some of the spontaneity out of what you were doing.

[01:05:19] But then when you put it in perspective that you were visiting each of these mountains

[01:05:23] in each month of the year, getting to see them in vastly different conditions, lighting,

[01:05:30] canopy, trail conditions, all of that, uh, it was worthwhile.

[01:05:35] So I sort of missed the gridding days.

[01:05:38] I'm not admitting that I'm working on the next list, but I had a great hike.

[01:05:42] It was fantastic.

[01:05:44] Um, balsam, the view was, was superb.

[01:05:47] I did notice that the trees, the further up you went, the tall trees, no leaves on the

[01:05:53] top, but all of the color that you would see driving up to the mountains would be mainly

[01:05:59] from the, the under canopy where the trees, the brush, whatever it is, um, hasn't lost their

[01:06:07] leaves yet.

[01:06:09] Um, they were popping and presumably creating a lot of that color you see from the road or

[01:06:14] from the mountain tops looking over the Vista.

[01:06:18] So you won't be able to see that by the time of this release.

[01:06:22] So, yeah, well, you know, on the one hand you say that, um, but there's still some color

[01:06:27] up there and, you know, it's, I think it's one of the best times of the year to go up

[01:06:32] there after the fall, before the winter and see the mountains when they're kind of in

[01:06:37] this raw, bland state.

[01:06:41] You know, it's maybe the time, best time of year to start shooting in black and white

[01:06:44] for a little while and, you know, get ready, get ready for winter hiking.

[01:06:49] Cause we've waited months for it.

[01:06:52] Do you get shot at?

[01:06:55] No, I didn't get shot.

[01:06:58] Um, yeah, this year.

[01:07:01] Yeah.

[01:07:01] So you were bright colors because of what this season is.

[01:07:06] Correct?

[01:07:06] Yeah.

[01:07:06] Yeah.

[01:07:07] So, uh, we are both.

[01:07:09] I mean, you're bushwhacking.

[01:07:09] You need to do this while bushwhacking.

[01:07:11] Jesus Christ.

[01:07:12] Yeah.

[01:07:12] Actually, uh, for the bushwhacking I was doing, I would not say that I was dressed appropriately

[01:07:18] given the fact that it's bow season out there.

[01:07:23] But I did take some level of assurance that where I parked, there was nobody else parked

[01:07:29] in the area and there's not a lot of houses along that road.

[01:07:34] So I didn't think I'd run into many hunters and I didn't.

[01:07:37] Um, but we're in bow season until the 15th of the month and then, or of next month.

[01:07:46] And then starting on November 16th to the 12th of December, it's gun and rifle season

[01:07:54] for bear deer and mountain lions and the Catskills and the rest of New York state.

[01:08:02] So wear your bright colors because sorry to say the people from the city are coming up and

[01:08:07] they're getting ready to shoot.

[01:08:09] Yeah.

[01:08:10] And I'm sorry, Betsy.

[01:08:11] Sorry.

[01:08:11] And just don't think that they're going to do it from the 16th of November to the 8th

[01:08:16] of December.

[01:08:18] There's going to be that, that guy or that group that gee, you know, they got up a day

[01:08:23] or two early and, or stayed a day or two late and did some hunting.

[01:08:29] So get your, get your bright colors on and proudly wear them.

[01:08:33] Yeah.

[01:08:34] Yeah.

[01:08:35] Yeah.

[01:08:36] And now you guys say this and you're like, Hey Stash, what'd you do?

[01:08:39] I did absolutely nothing.

[01:08:42] I had a, I, I, I, once again, we, we talked about my buddy, uh, my, my close friend, uh,

[01:08:48] dog Dexter passing away on Saturday.

[01:08:51] So Sunday, Jessica and I kind of chilled.

[01:08:53] I had a plan to go out to red Hill with, uh, another summit to do an awesome hike with

[01:08:59] them.

[01:08:59] But unfortunately I stayed with my wife and we celebrated Dexter's life.

[01:09:04] So, uh, but you know, I can, I can say that Ted, I, I kind of know where you were in

[01:09:10] that area.

[01:09:11] I got to admit where you came up.

[01:09:13] There was a lot of, uh, like seasonal roads for logging, correct?

[01:09:18] Yeah.

[01:09:18] So in the, the lower Ridge, uh, the one that went directly to the summit, it was obvious

[01:09:24] that the lower elevations had been recently logged again.

[01:09:29] I'm going to classify that as like in the last 50 to 75 years.

[01:09:33] The, the logging roads in the main were wider and many of them traveled more directly upslope.

[01:09:43] Whereas the Ridge that was further to the North had the older growth trees.

[01:09:51] I'm not going to say it was an old growth forest, but they were definitely older, much

[01:09:56] older trees, uh, seem to be to me a generation older.

[01:10:00] There was a strong canopy.

[01:10:03] So there wasn't a lot of underbrush through there in the roads.

[01:10:07] If you look at my tracks, you'll see where at the lower elevation I did pick up on the logging

[01:10:12] roads and they do, they were a lot more, um, perpendicular to the fall line of the slope

[01:10:20] and went back and forth.

[01:10:21] So if I were to hike that area again, um, it's a much more enjoyable hike to take that

[01:10:28] ridge that's just north of the viewpoint.

[01:10:31] Uh, I think it's rather splendid of, of all the forest hiking I've done in the Catskills.

[01:10:37] I'm going to put that as one of the top 10.

[01:10:39] Nice.

[01:10:40] Not non hemlock areas.

[01:10:43] When you get to those, those hemlock groves and you hike up them or down them, they're

[01:10:48] just magnificent.

[01:10:49] So, yeah.

[01:10:50] Yeah.

[01:10:51] So cool.

[01:10:51] Cool.

[01:10:52] Yeah.

[01:10:52] Glad you guys had some awesome experiences out in the trail.

[01:10:55] I'm very jealous.

[01:10:56] I really.

[01:10:57] Yeah.

[01:10:58] Well, whenever you want to try to relive those experiences, just click on my Instagram page

[01:11:02] and you'll see, I have some pretty popping photos of this fall's canopy turning colors.

[01:11:09] So I got to enjoy it.

[01:11:12] Sorry.

[01:11:13] You didn't.

[01:11:14] Well, you know what?

[01:11:15] And Ted, you know, I got to reach, reach out to you that, uh, I'm thinking of having

[01:11:20] a kind of like a group hike for us as a podcast in November.

[01:11:26] I have a date.

[01:11:27] So, okay.

[01:11:28] We'll set it.

[01:11:29] Is it going to be on a weekend?

[01:11:30] Yes.

[01:11:31] Sunday.

[01:11:31] Okay.

[01:11:32] Unfortunately, I'm sorry.

[01:11:34] That's all right.

[01:11:35] It's all your football days.

[01:11:36] I know that.

[01:11:37] Well, no, I'm not a big football fan, but I also.

[01:11:39] I also don't work for corporate America.

[01:11:42] So I know I can have a certain level of flexibility.

[01:11:45] Oh yeah.

[01:11:46] All right.

[01:11:47] So Catskill news volunteer.

[01:11:49] Once again, 3,500 club Catskill trail crew, Catskill mountain club visitors center, Jolly

[01:11:54] Robles trail crew, Bramley mountain fire tower, uh, volunteer as much as you can.

[01:11:59] Uh, people are doing trail maintenance, uh, as we speak and stuff like that.

[01:12:03] So get out there and volunteer.

[01:12:06] It really helps out the Catskills.

[01:12:08] It really helps out your trails.

[01:12:09] It really helps out your experience.

[01:12:11] Uh, once again.

[01:12:12] So let's chat about the weather this weekend.

[01:12:15] So, uh, it doesn't look too bad.

[01:12:19] We're going to go from Tad's last, uh, summit, which was balsam mountain.

[01:12:25] Friday looks pretty decent.

[01:12:27] Uh, high of around 48, low of around 47 clear skies.

[01:12:31] Saturday looks like to be late rain, rain showers in the morning to middle of the day.

[01:12:37] Uh, high around 46 in the morning to a low around 34 at night.

[01:12:43] So it gets a little bit colder.

[01:12:45] And then once we get into Sunday, it is going to dip down pretty cold, a high of around 32,

[01:12:50] a low of around at night, three degrees with wind chill.

[01:12:54] So we're getting there going into Monday.

[01:12:57] It looks like it's going to be a high around 37, low around seven degrees.

[01:13:01] So wind chill is starting to take a big effect on everything.

[01:13:06] Extra layers, like Tad said, wool, this wool, that, uh, you know, it doesn't hurt to have

[01:13:13] an extra couple pounds of, uh, layers in your pack to help protect you and to help me make

[01:13:19] you enjoy that awesome summit view.

[01:13:21] You know, I like to be up there as long as I can to enjoy that summit view.

[01:13:26] I'll get a little chilly.

[01:13:28] I'll throw another layer on.

[01:13:30] I'll be warm.

[01:13:31] I'll stay up there another hour.

[01:13:33] Yeah.

[01:13:33] So speaking of hiking this Sunday, Betsy, guess who I'm hiking with on Sunday?

[01:13:42] Oh my.

[01:13:43] Um, can you give me a hint?

[01:13:46] Yeah.

[01:13:47] Yes.

[01:13:47] His first name is Mike.

[01:13:49] Oh.

[01:13:53] Stash, you want to take a stab at it?

[01:13:54] Mike, uh, yeah.

[01:13:59] Kudish?

[01:13:59] Mike Kudish.

[01:14:00] I'm hiking with, uh, Doc Kudish on Sunday.

[01:14:03] We're going to go out and map an area of suspected old growth forest.

[01:14:11] And I'm so excited to go and do that with him.

[01:14:14] He's, he's just a terrific person to hang out with.

[01:14:19] And every time you walk through the woods with him, it's really an enlightening experience.

[01:14:24] So I'll take some really, really good notes and share them with everyone next week.

[01:14:30] So tune back in and hear about my excursion with, I call him, he's 82 years old.

[01:14:37] I call him iron Mike.

[01:14:40] Oh yeah.

[01:14:41] Yeah.

[01:14:42] Yeah.

[01:14:43] Cool.

[01:14:43] Well, have fun.

[01:14:44] I'm going to see if I can get out this weekend.

[01:14:46] So, uh, with, with John and my friend, John and, and my wife, Jessica.

[01:14:51] So hopefully we'll get out.

[01:14:53] So, all right.

[01:14:56] So let's go with the last bit of sponsors and then we'll get on to Betsy, her story tonight.

[01:15:01] So can't wait.

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[01:16:37] Really appreciate it.

[01:16:38] So, let's get on to the guest of the night.

[01:16:44] So, Betsy, you've endured an hour and 20 minutes of this.

[01:16:48] Jesus, sorry about that.

[01:16:50] Don't be sorry.

[01:16:51] You're kidding me.

[01:16:52] I truly enjoyed this podcast more than anything.

[01:16:55] Did she have a good time with the kind of pregame stuff?

[01:17:00] Oh, yeah.

[01:17:01] Absolutely.

[01:17:02] A lot of people are just like, let's get to the interview.

[01:17:05] No way.

[01:17:06] As a dedicated listener, is it what you thought it would be like being on the show so far?

[01:17:13] Yeah.

[01:17:14] Absolutely.

[01:17:14] Absolutely.

[01:17:15] Yeah.

[01:17:15] But, you know, I'll be honest with you.

[01:17:17] You know, at the podcast, you just listen to it.

[01:17:21] But, you know, it's more interesting actually seeing your faces.

[01:17:25] So, Ted, I've never seen your face before.

[01:17:29] It's ugly.

[01:17:30] Yeah.

[01:17:31] Thanks, Stosh.

[01:17:31] Thanks.

[01:17:32] Yeah.

[01:17:32] I'm halfway through my plastic surgery regimen.

[01:17:36] I'm getting the Stosh makeover.

[01:17:38] I'm going to be the older version of him.

[01:17:41] I was going to say you got that old girl forest on your beard and stuff.

[01:17:44] That's so harsh.

[01:17:46] Okay.

[01:17:46] I think my wife is calling.

[01:17:48] I need to leave.

[01:17:50] All right.

[01:17:51] So, just the spotlight is Betsy.

[01:17:53] So, tonight, Betsy's going to talk about her escarpment through hike.

[01:17:57] How she did two days of the escarpment.

[01:18:00] Had an unfortunate injury.

[01:18:02] Had to bail.

[01:18:03] And then came back and completed it.

[01:18:05] So, at first, you don't succeed.

[01:18:07] She picked herself up and tried again.

[01:18:09] And she completed it.

[01:18:10] So, thank you, Betsy, for joining us on the show.

[01:18:14] And how you joined the Catskill so far?

[01:18:18] I'm truly enjoying the Catskill.

[01:18:21] It's, you know, a situation where I've come a long way.

[01:18:28] You know, when I initially became introduced to the Catskill,

[01:18:34] it was through one of your sponsors, the Trailbound Project.

[01:18:38] Oh.

[01:18:39] And that was in November of last year.

[01:18:45] So, not even quite a year has passed since I first got introduced to the Catskill.

[01:18:52] And it was a horrendous experience that I went through.

[01:18:58] Probably one of the most harrowing experiences of my life.

[01:19:01] It was a, what they call, bushwhacking three.

[01:19:08] And it was a bushwhacking overnighter.

[01:19:10] And what we did is we met at the Denning Road.

[01:19:20] And we embarked on a bushwhacking trip up Van Wick from Denning.

[01:19:26] And what made it so harrowing was that I'm a 105-pound woman.

[01:19:35] And the backpack that I was carrying was about 42% of my weight.

[01:19:41] It was a 45-pound pack.

[01:19:44] And it was very, very difficult for me to scale Van Wick with 45 pounds on my back in the third week of November,

[01:19:59] which was quite cold.

[01:20:01] And the reason why my pack was so heavy was because I don't have ultralight gear.

[01:20:19] So, it's called the Military Modular Sleep System.

[01:20:23] A summer sleeping bag, a winter sleeping bag.

[01:20:28] And the two of those together with the bivy comes to about 12 pounds.

[01:20:36] And then I also was carrying four liters of water and all the clothes that I would need to stay warm.

[01:20:46] And it amounted to about 45 pounds when I also included my storm break tent by North Face.

[01:20:56] And what we did was we did the traditional bushwhack where we would discern which angle we needed to travel in.

[01:21:08] And then we'd shoot an azimuth.

[01:21:10] And then we'd send our partner a distance out.

[01:21:15] And once we'd lined them up with our azimuth, they would shoot 180-degree difference back azimuth to make sure we were accurate.

[01:21:26] And then we would catch up to them and just continue leapfrogging.

[01:21:31] And that's how we went up the mountain.

[01:21:33] And you may actually be a guilty party in this particular situation.

[01:21:44] Because if I'm not mistaken, I think you may have provided the Trailbound Project with this idea of actually having us scale Bandwick from Denning.

[01:21:57] Am I correct?

[01:21:59] Is that your idea?

[01:22:01] I plead the fifth.

[01:22:04] You know, I mean, I can't say no.

[01:22:09] But they contacted me and thought, you know, what could they do from here to here?

[01:22:16] And I said, you know, it would be a great experience if you're going to do, like, all bushwhacking from, you know, the...

[01:22:24] You guys started from, like, Slide or Big Indian Trailhead, right?

[01:22:28] Like Biscuit Brook.

[01:22:30] Went over to Wildcats.

[01:22:33] We started from Denning.

[01:22:35] Okay.

[01:22:36] So you went over Van Wick to Peekamoose and then back down, right?

[01:22:42] No, we just...

[01:22:43] We went up to Van Wick and then from there we were going to look for some plane wrecks.

[01:22:48] Yep.

[01:22:49] Okay.

[01:22:49] So, yeah, yeah.

[01:22:50] I did this whole thing.

[01:22:52] Sorry.

[01:22:53] I didn't mean to kill you.

[01:22:56] Oh, my God.

[01:22:57] It was horrendous.

[01:22:58] And because of the way that we were bushwhacking, we started at, like, 9 o'clock in the morning and we were still working our way up Van Wick after nightfall.

[01:23:12] Oh, yikes.

[01:23:14] It took us that long leapfrogging.

[01:23:17] And finally, what ended up happening, you know, praise God, but one of the men in our group, he fell out.

[01:23:30] He just bonked right on the top of Van Wick.

[01:23:35] And, you know, he just announced to the group that, you know, he was done.

[01:23:39] He can't go any further.

[01:23:41] Did he take the trail back?

[01:23:43] Did he, like, go over to the table and take the trail back?

[01:23:45] Or he just tried to retrace back to Denning through the woods?

[01:23:49] It wasn't overnighter.

[01:23:51] So everyone had what they needed to spend the night on the top of Van Wick.

[01:23:56] And that's precisely what we did.

[01:23:58] We just camped out right on the top there.

[01:24:04] And the next morning, he was good to go.

[01:24:07] And then we just made our way back down.

[01:24:10] But, you know, with the, it was about, it was the third week in November.

[01:24:18] So the temperatures were dropping down into the teens at night.

[01:24:22] And then with the wind field factor on the top of the mountain, it was probably like eight, nine degrees up there.

[01:24:29] And it was a very interesting experience because, you know, Joe Galvin.

[01:24:39] Oh, yeah.

[01:24:40] Ice Climber, he was previously on our podcast twice.

[01:24:43] Yes, he was the leader.

[01:24:45] And you also know he's currently the chief of Catskill Mountain Search and Rescue, Brad Sayer.

[01:24:53] Yes.

[01:24:54] Yeah, he was with us, too.

[01:24:56] Oh, wow.

[01:24:57] Yeah.

[01:24:58] So we just pitched our tents right up there on the top of Van Wick, towards the top anyway.

[01:25:05] And I utilized this area that had looked like it was going to be great for, to block the wind.

[01:25:17] So I pitched my tent, you know, where I couldn't tell if it was like a huge boulder or fallen tree because it was nighttime.

[01:25:26] But I pitched my tent there.

[01:25:29] And I was lazy about putting my toothpaste in my bear bag before it was hung.

[01:25:35] So I had my toothpaste inside my tent with me.

[01:25:39] No food, but my toothpaste.

[01:25:42] And I would say maybe like two or three o'clock in the morning, I hear, guys, I kid you not.

[01:25:51] I heard by stealth, not an animal that scurries.

[01:25:57] But what I heard was it sounded like a person.

[01:26:01] And there was leaves because it was November, dead leaves on the ground.

[01:26:05] And what I heard right outside my tent was, and it was just moving by stealth.

[01:26:20] And honestly, I don't know if it was a coyote.

[01:26:22] I don't know if it was a deer.

[01:26:24] I don't know if it was a bear.

[01:26:26] But I said, I banged on the side of my tent.

[01:26:30] I said, go.

[01:26:32] And it got quiet.

[01:26:33] And then all of a sudden, it would like stealth.

[01:26:39] And very slowly taking steps around my tent.

[01:26:42] And I said, holy Christ, am I like sleeping where it usually goes to bed at night?

[01:26:49] Because of where I put my tent.

[01:26:52] And, you know, I didn't know if that boulder was its den.

[01:26:57] And I kept yelling at it to go.

[01:27:01] And it kept, like, walking around my tent.

[01:27:06] And so Joe, out in the distance, he's sleeping in his Tyvek tarp.

[01:27:13] And he goes, Betsy?

[01:27:16] And I was saying, go.

[01:27:18] And he thought I was saying, Joe.

[01:27:20] So he gets up out of his Tyvek tarp.

[01:27:23] And he comes running over to my tent.

[01:27:25] And he starts, like, using his air horn.

[01:27:31] Which it was funny.

[01:27:32] The time he made was funny.

[01:27:42] Oh, my God.

[01:27:44] And then Brad Sayer came out.

[01:27:49] And they went back to bed.

[01:27:52] There was nothing there, according to them.

[01:27:55] And then, like, an hour later, that same animal came back.

[01:28:00] And the person in the tent next to me was yelling some man's name, thinking that it was one of the men in our group.

[01:28:08] It sounded like a human being.

[01:28:11] So, honestly, I was too scared to look outside to see what it was.

[01:28:18] And to this day, I could kill myself for not being brave enough to look outside my tent.

[01:28:25] I don't know what it was.

[01:28:27] But it was something that walks.

[01:28:30] And it was something that walks cautiously.

[01:28:34] Mountain lion.

[01:28:35] That rules out Stosh.

[01:28:37] Mountain lion.

[01:28:38] Yeah.

[01:28:39] 100%.

[01:28:40] I'm going to have to convert with Brad and Joe about this.

[01:28:44] But we're going to say this is about mountain lion 100%.

[01:28:47] Yeah.

[01:28:49] You know, I just don't know if it was a coyote, a deer, a bear.

[01:28:54] I don't know.

[01:28:55] Coyotes wouldn't come that close with you.

[01:28:57] That's crazy at night.

[01:28:59] Coyotes aren't concerned.

[01:29:00] Their canines are not concerned about oral hygiene.

[01:29:03] Same thing with bears.

[01:29:04] They eat all of that roughage.

[01:29:07] They're not concerned with oral hygiene.

[01:29:09] Yeah.

[01:29:10] Mountain lion.

[01:29:11] But if you're a mountain lion and you've, like, you know, been chasing down some bushwhackers from New

[01:29:17] Jersey, you're very concerned about oral hygiene.

[01:29:22] They want to get that picture.

[01:29:24] Yeah.

[01:29:24] We have scientific data that proves that.

[01:29:28] So, Betsy, I'm a little surprised by this story because you have some military background.

[01:29:33] And what is it?

[01:29:34] You said you weren't brave enough to go outside of your tent.

[01:29:37] Why don't you cover some of your military background for us, if you will?

[01:29:41] Yeah.

[01:29:42] You got it.

[01:29:43] But I just wanted to backtrack by saying that it's actually the Trailbound Project because of this bushwhacking

[01:29:51] overnighter that had me realizing that there's so much more to discover out there, you know,

[01:30:02] with this area called the Catskills.

[01:30:05] So, it's because of the Trailbound Project that I developed this interest in the Catskills.

[01:30:14] And then, okay, so, Ted, you would like to know about my military background?

[01:30:20] Yeah.

[01:30:21] I mean, you're telling us this story of your first experience backpacking in the Catskills on Van Wick.

[01:30:27] You hear these noises.

[01:30:28] You assume it's some kind of animal outside as opposed to Stosh coming by to give out some trail magic.

[01:30:37] But we'll get to that later.

[01:30:39] But why don't you tell us, you know, about who you are, your military background,

[01:30:42] and kind of your backstory before you get to the Catskills.

[01:30:46] Okay.

[01:30:47] Yeah.

[01:30:48] Yeah.

[01:30:48] I was born in Central Jersey.

[01:30:53] My father joined the U.S. Air Force before we even had one.

[01:31:01] It was called the U.S. Army Air Corps.

[01:31:05] And then after the U.S. Army Air Corps had evolved into the U.S. Air Force,

[01:31:13] my father was sent to school to become an officer.

[01:31:21] He was enlisted at the time.

[01:31:24] And after he got his degree in electronics, electrical engineering,

[01:31:32] he went back into the Air Force as an officer,

[01:31:36] and he worked on ICBM's intercontinental ballistic missile systems.

[01:31:45] And he worked out of an area in Greenland doing research and development on these intercontinental ballistic missiles.

[01:31:57] And then he was sent to Korea during the Korean conflict, which escalated into a war.

[01:32:08] And that's where he met my mom.

[01:32:11] And my father is just Heinz 57, Caucasian mix, and my mom is from Korea.

[01:32:20] And he married my mother and brought her back to the United States and then started a family with her in central New Jersey.

[01:32:30] And that's where I was born and raised.

[01:32:35] And I went to school, public school system in New Jersey up until eighth grade.

[01:32:43] And then I was taken out of public schools to train in ballet full time.

[01:32:51] So I never set foot in the public high school.

[01:32:56] My high school years were spent in ballet studios.

[01:33:01] And I was actually training at the Joffrey Ballet the same time as Ronnie Jr., Ron Reagan's son, President Reagan's son.

[01:33:15] He was there at the same time as me.

[01:33:19] And when I first met him, his dad was the senator.

[01:33:25] And then in 1980, his dad had been elected president.

[01:33:31] And that's when things got interesting inside the studios because Ronnie Jr.

[01:33:38] had bodyguards inside the studios where he was taking classes.

[01:33:44] So that made my years in the ballet world interesting to have the president's son there with us.

[01:33:53] And he lived across the street from me on 10th Street and 6th Avenue.

[01:33:58] So that was an interesting time.

[01:34:03] And then after I had finished with my ballet training, my ballet years, when I turned 21, I decided to do a 180.

[01:34:16] And I left the theater world and decided to become an American soldier.

[01:34:22] And what propelled me into the military was kind of like a rebellion.

[01:34:33] I was dating a man from Greece, young man from Greece.

[01:34:39] And in the Greek universities, he wasn't accepted.

[01:34:47] So he had to come all the way to the United States to get his college education.

[01:34:53] And although this country was able to provide him with that college education,

[01:34:58] he was always talking poorly about the United States and about Americans.

[01:35:03] And so instead of proceeding to start a life with him, I decided to leave that relationship and turn my back on him and join the army instead.

[01:35:21] Kind of like my FU to him.

[01:35:26] Nice.

[01:35:26] Yeah.

[01:35:28] Yeah.

[01:35:28] Yeah.

[01:35:28] Yeah.

[01:35:29] Yeah.

[01:35:29] And when I went into the army, what they do is they try to discern where your aptitudes lie.

[01:35:37] So they have different aptitude tests that you have to take.

[01:35:42] And one of the aptitude tests that they assigned me was called the Defense Language Aptitude Test.

[01:35:52] And what that does is it discerns supposedly how quickly you can learn a language.

[01:35:58] And it has absolutely nothing to do with how many languages you already know.

[01:36:03] What they do for this test is they teach you a language that doesn't exist.

[01:36:08] So no one has the upper hand whatsoever.

[01:36:11] And you meet in this classroom and this Marine, he came in and he taught us all the rules of this fake language.

[01:36:22] And then you get tested on it.

[01:36:26] And evidently, I did well enough on this test that they had decided that my aptitude lied with foreign languages.

[01:36:36] So I was given the opportunity to go to the Defense Language Institute in Monterey, California after boot camp.

[01:36:52] And I was not able to choose which language I wanted.

[01:36:58] They assign you your language.

[01:37:00] And so when I graduated from boot camp, I came down on orders to learn Russian.

[01:37:09] So in 86, I went into boot camp and I started learning Russian two months after boot camp ended.

[01:37:21] And the Russian language course, the basic Russian language course is 47 weeks, about a year.

[01:37:30] And it's a very serious situation because during the Cold War, they were sending in every month like 100 new students starting a new class.

[01:37:47] And every month a new class was starting.

[01:37:50] And they had a preplanned attrition.

[01:37:54] And basically one third of the people going to school were not going to be kept.

[01:38:02] So if everyone got straight A's, they only kept the 60% that had the best A's.

[01:38:11] So it was very, very serious matter.

[01:38:15] And throughout the 47 weeks, every other week, there was another person that you never saw again because they were yanked out of the program.

[01:38:27] And it was quick.

[01:38:29] You know, the proctor would come into the classroom, remove that person from the class, and then you never saw them again.

[01:38:38] And so it was a very serious matter to pay attention and to study.

[01:38:44] Otherwise, if you got washed out of the program, the military was able to assign you whatever job they felt the need to fill.

[01:38:55] So I didn't want to go from being a Russian language student to being washed out of the program and becoming a truck driver.

[01:39:07] So I studied my rear end off the entire time.

[01:39:13] I never did anything else but really just study all night after having been in classes all day.

[01:39:21] And then what they do at the end of the year is they keep eight students to go on to advanced Russian.

[01:39:33] And I was selected as one of those eight students to stay on for advanced Russian, which lasted another six months.

[01:39:42] Jesus.

[01:39:43] Yeah.

[01:39:44] Yeah.

[01:39:44] And in that classroom, they kept four sailors and four army.

[01:39:50] So there were three soldiers with me, male soldiers, myself.

[01:39:57] And then there were four naval enlisted in the classroom.

[01:40:02] And we stayed on another six months.

[01:40:06] And then after that ended, we all went on to learn our job.

[01:40:12] After having learned the language, now we have to learn our job.

[01:40:16] Jesus.

[01:40:18] Yeah.

[01:40:18] I don't know what happened to the Navy guys, but I went off to a military intelligence school to learn my craft.

[01:40:28] And then after I had graduated from that school, I got sent.

[01:40:36] I was the only person in the group who got sent into Berlin.

[01:40:41] So I was actually utilizing my Russian language skills in Berlin during the Cold War.

[01:40:53] Wow.

[01:40:54] Yeah.

[01:40:54] It was a phenomenal time.

[01:40:57] It couldn't have been timed more perfectly because I arrived a little over a year before the wall came down.

[01:41:05] So I was actually there when the Berlin Wall came down.

[01:41:09] Wow.

[01:41:11] Unbelievable.

[01:41:13] Yeah.

[01:41:13] Yeah.

[01:41:14] It couldn't have been timed more perfectly.

[01:41:16] But it was a very, very fascinating time because, you know, perhaps many of your listeners are young.

[01:41:25] And I know you, Stasher, are familiar with history.

[01:41:29] But a lot of your listeners may not understand that Berlin, well, if you take after World War II, you know, Germany was this huge pizza pie.

[01:41:41] And then after World War II, Germany was split from north to south down the center into West Germany and East Germany.

[01:41:52] And Berlin was actually smack dab in the center of communist East Germany.

[01:42:01] Berlin is not even on the western side.

[01:42:03] It was in the middle of communist East Germany.

[01:42:07] And it was a very, very incredible opportunity to do information gathering because being smacked up in the center of communist East Germany, we were surrounded.

[01:42:25] But East Germany was pretty much a puppet, a satellite state for the Soviet Union.

[01:42:33] And Berlin itself was surrounded by 20, 21 Soviet army divisions.

[01:42:46] And just to give you an idea of how many Soviet soldiers that was, each division has bare minimum 10,000 soldiers.

[01:42:59] And there's 20, 21 Soviet divisions surrounding us.

[01:43:05] That's 200,000 at the least, 200,000 soldiers surrounding Berlin.

[01:43:13] Wow.

[01:43:14] And 200,000 is the minimum.

[01:43:17] Honestly, it was probably more like 450,000.

[01:43:22] Double.

[01:43:23] That's not as much.

[01:43:26] So, and, you know, just so that your listeners understand, these soldiers that were surrounding us, Soviet soldiers that were surrounding us in Berlin, they would have been pointing their guns towards West Germany.

[01:43:44] And that's why between West Germany and East Germany, that's why that would have been the forward edge of the battle area, the front lines.

[01:43:54] So, we were actually already inside enemy territory, if you will.

[01:44:00] And those divisions would have just plowed through Berlin and into West Germany had there actually been a, you know, a full-blown round war.

[01:44:12] So, it was a very dangerous area, but a very, very wonderful area to be, to do what I was supposed to be doing for the Department of Defense.

[01:44:27] Yeah, for history and stuff like that, and for, like, conflict negotiations and stuff like that.

[01:44:33] That's insane.

[01:44:35] So, with your military background and stuff like that, how did you get into the hiking kind of aspect of that?

[01:44:45] Because of my military background, actually, I, the U.S. Army actually wanted to keep me in.

[01:44:54] And when it was time for me to get out of the service, the command sergeant major of the 105th Military Intelligence Battalion called me into his office.

[01:45:06] And he sat down with me, it was probably for about three hours, just trying to convince me to stay in the service.

[01:45:14] And I lied to him and I told him that, you know, I wanted to go to college.

[01:45:21] But in actuality, I got out of the U.S. Army because I felt as though I would not make a good, higher-ranking, non-commissioned officer.

[01:45:32] I was an E-5, a sergeant at the time.

[01:45:36] And they were getting ready to offer me B-NOP, which is the school to prepare for E-6, a staff sergeant.

[01:45:46] And I didn't feel that I was a good enough soldier to be in charge of a platoon.

[01:45:54] So I decided to get out instead.

[01:45:57] In retrospect, what I should have done was said, yeah, you know, I'll stay in.

[01:46:02] But if you don't mind, I would like to be paired up with a fighter and get to learn land nav a little bit better and all the other things that I felt deficient in.

[01:46:16] And so when I got out of the service many, many years later, it still bothered me that I felt like really underdeveloped when it came to land nav.

[01:46:28] So I saw two years ago, the Trailbound Project was offering map and compass class.

[01:46:38] So I signed up for it.

[01:46:41] And through the Trailbound Project, I was able to up my game as far as land nav goes.

[01:46:50] And also they got me interested in the cat skills.

[01:46:59] And hiking was something I was familiar with through the service because they don't call it hiking.

[01:47:07] They call it rock marching.

[01:47:11] But, you know, you don't use blazed trails.

[01:47:15] So, you know, you're already bushwhacking and they just call it rock marching.

[01:47:22] But it's it's it's it's hiking, just not on blazed trails.

[01:47:27] So.

[01:47:28] Yeah.

[01:47:28] So I would say I would say it has everything to do with me getting out of the service, not feeling confident in my land nav skills,

[01:47:40] seeking out in the civilian sector, an opportunity to to up my game with land nav and finding it through the Trailbound Project.

[01:47:52] So.

[01:47:53] So is this bushwhacking for Trey your your first hiking experience?

[01:48:01] Well.

[01:48:03] I.

[01:48:03] You know, I I've hiked in Jersey.

[01:48:06] Jersey.

[01:48:08] But Jersey is not nearly as challenging as as the cat skills.

[01:48:16] And I found that out very quickly with this harrowing situation in Bushwhacking three going up the side of Van Wick.

[01:48:29] And then I experienced it again when.

[01:48:35] I went to do the escarpment trail with another summit.

[01:48:40] My actual first high peak was Wyndham High Peak when I when I set foot on the escarpment trail.

[01:48:49] So I I was I had no idea what I was getting into when when I had strived to become a part of that team that that was given the opportunity to hike the escarpment trail with another summit.

[01:49:08] I had no idea what I was getting into.

[01:49:11] So you talk about another summit there sponsor of of our podcast.

[01:49:16] So how did you get involved with with them?

[01:49:19] How did you?

[01:49:20] Of course, you've listened to the podcast.

[01:49:21] I hope that you get involved with them through and that's for our podcast.

[01:49:27] Yeah, no.

[01:49:29] And you know what?

[01:49:31] Stash, I I owe that all to you.

[01:49:34] You know, it was the trail that, you know, introduced me to your podcast.

[01:49:43] And as a matter of fact, it was Scott Fitterman, the co-founder of the trailbound project, who told me about your podcast.

[01:49:51] And through your podcast, I had discovered another summit.

[01:50:00] And especially it was the podcast where you had brought Aaron Leonard and Henry De La Vega together to talk about another summit.

[01:50:14] And I listened to that particular podcast and I said to myself, you know what?

[01:50:22] Let me let let me reach out to them.

[01:50:25] I mean, I know from Jersey, but, you know, who knows me?

[01:50:29] Maybe who knows?

[01:50:30] So I, I, I, I, I applied to become a member of another summit and lo and behold, they reached out to me like within 24 hours.

[01:50:45] And they accepted me into the fold and I was so elated.

[01:50:51] I was shocked because it happened so very quickly.

[01:50:54] I mean, they jumped right on it and that's why I sent you that email letting you know that, you know, my God, you know, I, I reached out to another summit and they pulled me into their fold.

[01:51:10] And that only have they pulled me into their fold, but I, I took it a step further and I signed up for their escarpment trail through hike and they're actually going to let me go with them.

[01:51:24] I mean, I mean, they're, they're so accepting though.

[01:51:28] They, they were willing to do anything and everything for you guys that, you know, serve for our country and serve for our first responders and stuff like that.

[01:51:39] And they're so well organized that it just, it blows my mind of how good that they do things and they do things by the book.

[01:51:48] They do things with absolute safety and security and stuff like that.

[01:51:52] It's, it's, it's phenomenal.

[01:51:53] So you got involved with another summit and then you, you started on this, this backpacking trip.

[01:52:00] Now, can you talk about the, the backpacking trip?

[01:52:05] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:52:06] Um, well, first of all, I, I just, I want to publicly, you know, say that I, I owe all of this to you.

[01:52:16] Absolutely.

[01:52:17] Absolutely.

[01:52:18] Absolutely.

[01:52:18] This entire story would, would never have occurred had it not been for your podcast.

[01:52:24] And, you know, you, you, you need to know just.

[01:52:28] How much of an impact your podcast has on, you know, certain listeners.

[01:52:36] They, they follow through with, you know, the, the information that you're putting out there.

[01:52:42] And one thing leads to another.

[01:52:45] And in my particular case, you know, this entire story would not have existed had it not been for you.

[01:52:51] So thank you so much.

[01:52:53] You're welcome.

[01:52:54] That's quite an endorsement.

[01:52:56] Yeah.

[01:52:57] Right.

[01:52:57] Right.

[01:52:58] That's great.

[01:52:58] That's great.

[01:52:59] So tell us how this is your, with another summit, this is your first excursion with them when you, you set out for the overnighter on the escarpment trail.

[01:53:07] Uh, yes.

[01:53:09] Um, and you know, it was, it was, it was wonderful because, you know, it had been so many years since I had, you know, left since I had been in the army and.

[01:53:21] Um, I reported for the hike, the escarpment trail through hike at about seven o'clock in the morning in Beacon, New York.

[01:53:32] And there were in total 10 of us, um, the two leaders, uh, it was, uh, Aaron Leonard.

[01:53:42] And he also had, uh, Stash, you've met him on your, uh, Pemi loop and then the presidential hike, um, Bill Urban.

[01:53:51] Okay.

[01:53:52] And, and so did you, do you guys shuttle over to the escarpment trail to start the hike?

[01:53:58] Yes.

[01:53:59] Yes.

[01:53:59] But before we did so, um, we met in Beacon and Aaron Leonard, he's a fascinating man.

[01:54:08] Um, he, he was, he's a special kind of retired officer because he had before becoming an officer, he was enlisted.

[01:54:24] So he was an infantry soldier that went through the ranks of private one, private two, private three, specialist, sergeant, uh, staff sergeant.

[01:54:35] Before he left the enlisted to start all over again and become an, an officer.

[01:54:44] So he, he's been there done that.

[01:54:49] Um, he, he wasn't like someone who graduated from West Point and was made an officer.

[01:54:55] He went through the trenches and understands how soldiers think, how soldiers behave.

[01:55:05] And he, he's a very, very effective leader because of that.

[01:55:10] And when I got to Beacon at seven o'clock in the morning, the day that we were to start the escarpment trail through hike, it was fascinating because he had us take our backpacks.

[01:55:22] And empty them out, everything, totally empty out our backpack.

[01:55:28] And then one by one, he called out an item.

[01:55:31] We had to hold it out and then pack it in the order that he wanted it in our backpacks.

[01:55:38] And if he did not approve of something, then it would not go into your backpack.

[01:55:43] And he totally controlled what it is we were going to take with us.

[01:55:50] So, so after you went through that process, yes.

[01:55:53] After you go through that process, did your pack still weigh about 45 pounds?

[01:55:56] No, in this particular instance, what the, what another summer did was they had ultralight gear for me.

[01:56:08] So everything was ultralight.

[01:56:10] And as opposed to having a 45 pound backpack without water and disposable items,

[01:56:20] my pack, my basic weight was six pounds.

[01:56:24] Wow.

[01:56:26] Wow.

[01:56:26] Wow.

[01:56:26] That's quite a reduction, huh?

[01:56:28] Oh, quite a reduction.

[01:56:29] Yeah.

[01:56:30] Yeah.

[01:56:31] And so after we went through all of our gear, Aaron, Aaron Leonard looks up and he, he stares

[01:56:41] at me and he, he stops talking mid sentence and he looks at me and he goes, are you wearing

[01:56:48] earrings?

[01:56:51] True.

[01:56:53] True.

[01:56:54] A true, a true, a true backpacker would think of that.

[01:56:56] I've been always wearing earrings, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll be wearing earrings.

[01:57:03] I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm like, you know, death mid.

[01:57:06] But, um, so I was like, Oh God.

[01:57:09] And then later on, you know, we're pulling out our rain gear and I pull out a poncho.

[01:57:17] And, you know, he goes, I told you all not to bring a poncho.

[01:57:22] Do you, do you have any like rain jacket and rain pants?

[01:57:25] And I, I said, no, you know, I, I like my poncho.

[01:57:29] And, um, he, he ordered his operations manager to look and see if there was an extra pair

[01:57:36] of, of rain pants and a rain jacket.

[01:57:39] So he was really disturbed that I showed, showed up with a poncho and I was like, Oh God, you

[01:57:45] know, I'm turning into this guy's best friend real quickly.

[01:57:51] So what was the, the overall plan?

[01:57:55] It was what two nights, three days.

[01:57:58] Yeah.

[01:57:59] Um, yes, yes.

[01:58:02] Um, and so the first day, um, after, after that entire situation, we, um, we did the shuttle

[01:58:10] like, and we started, um, our hike and then Northwest, um, and then we worked our way, um,

[01:58:26] on the blue trail to Wyndham high peak.

[01:58:29] And then, uh, we came off Wyndham high peak and then we, we backpacked down to, uh, Batavia

[01:58:38] lean to.

[01:58:39] Yeah.

[01:58:40] Yeah.

[01:58:40] Batavia killed lean to.

[01:58:42] Batavia killed lean to.

[01:58:43] Yeah.

[01:58:43] And, um, we spent the night there and, um, that night I felt like this, um, weird pain

[01:58:54] in my, the outer, the lateral, uh, portion of my knee.

[01:59:00] And, um, you know, Aaron said, you know, how are you feeling?

[01:59:04] And I said, I feel great, except, you know, I got this, this weird pain in my knee.

[01:59:09] My knee.

[01:59:10] And he stopped and he looked at me and he said, real serious, he goes, what kind of pain?

[01:59:19] And I was taken aback that, you know, he asked me in such a way.

[01:59:23] And I just tried to explain it to him, but I was trying to just like, you know, play it off.

[01:59:28] And he didn't say anything.

[01:59:30] He just like, he took that information in and then, and then he walked away.

[01:59:35] And then the next morning it, it felt much better.

[01:59:38] And, uh, we started hiking out of, uh, the Batavia, uh, area, uh, to do the approach for blackhead.

[01:59:51] And, um.

[01:59:52] Difficult approach.

[01:59:52] One of the most difficult approaches in the Catskills.

[01:59:56] Yeah.

[01:59:57] And, um, the pain came back by the, by the time we had summited blackhead, my knee was hurting quite a bit.

[02:00:07] And, um, I guess Aaron Leonard, um, noticed that he's, he's very, very quiet, but very, very attentive.

[02:00:16] And I noticed what he did.

[02:00:19] He repositioned us.

[02:00:21] We had, uh, initially, uh, Bill Urban at the front.

[02:00:25] And then, um, once we had summited blackhead, he changed the position of the people in the lineup and he put three people in the front, me being one of them.

[02:00:38] And interestingly enough, he hiked right behind me.

[02:00:43] And I didn't realize he did that to assess the three of us, but that's why he positioned us in such a way.

[02:00:50] And he kept an eye from behind on our performance.

[02:00:56] And I was, I was in such excruciating pain and I guess he was able to pick up on it.

[02:01:04] I'm, I'm not really quite sure how he was able to figure it out, but we got down to, um, the water hole after Arizona.

[02:01:17] So we had summited blackhead, we went down blackhead and then we summited Arizona, went down Arizona.

[02:01:25] And then there's a water hole there after Arizona near Dutch or not.

[02:01:31] And we, um, we went there to, to get water.

[02:01:36] And, um, Aaron, he, um, stayed a little bit behind with, um, Bill Urban and a couple of other guys in the group and was talking to them.

[02:01:49] Um, and then later on, all four of those guys came to where we were getting ready to go get water.

[02:01:57] And he, uh, looked at me and he said, I'm taking you off the hike.

[02:02:05] And, um, it, it wasn't, it wasn't a, how do you feel?

[02:02:09] Are you okay?

[02:02:10] Do you think you can do this?

[02:02:12] It, it, it was, um, non-negotiable.

[02:02:15] He looked at me and he said, I'm taking you off the hike.

[02:02:17] Wow.

[02:02:18] How'd you feel about that?

[02:02:20] Were you relieved?

[02:02:22] Were you relieved?

[02:02:23] Was it bittersweet?

[02:02:25] I, both.

[02:02:26] I, you know, as, as far as the pain goes, I, I w I was, I was so grateful that, um, it, the, the painful situation was going to come to an end.

[02:02:38] But, um, I was brokenhearted because I had made such good friends out of the folks that I had met in just the 24 short hours that we were together.

[02:02:50] It, it really broke my heart.

[02:02:53] I, I, that's what, that hurt more than the emotional pain of, you know, having a, you know, be taken off the trip because of, of not seeing them again.

[02:03:07] It hurt more than my actual knee.

[02:03:10] But, um, I was grateful because I didn't know what the pain was.

[02:03:15] And I, to this day, I, I don't know what caused all that pain, but it was the, I think it was the lateral ligament.

[02:03:23] Um, it wasn't muscular.

[02:03:26] Did you go get it checked out?

[02:03:28] Did you go get any medical attention?

[02:03:30] I did.

[02:03:31] Um, I went to, um, the VA hospital after I had gotten home and their only concern was they did x-rays to see if anything was broken.

[02:03:43] But as far as seeing a specialist, you know, it would have been, you know, weeks or maybe.

[02:03:49] Yeah.

[02:03:50] Um, so it, it had gotten better before I actually needed to see a specialist.

[02:03:57] But, um, in order to leave the watering hole area at the Dutch or notch, um, section, I, I hobbled, you know, with, with my, um, trekking poles.

[02:04:11] And Aaron saw how, how much I was struggling that he stopped and he put my backpack on his chest.

[02:04:20] And all I needed to do was, um, use my trekking poles as like crutches.

[02:04:26] And it was, it was very, very difficult, painful hike out because, um, the, I, I know you guys are both familiar with that yellow trail, the Dutch or notch trail.

[02:04:38] Um, it's, it's very, very rocky.

[02:04:42] Yeah.

[02:04:42] It's pretty steep.

[02:04:44] Yeah.

[02:04:44] I mean, it's not steep, but it's a, it's a road, but it's, I gotta admit, it's, it's, it's pretty good at elevation gain.

[02:04:51] Yeah.

[02:04:51] So did, did you, did you hike out to Colgate Lake or did you hike down the escarpment?

[02:04:57] She went down to, uh, I didn't even know what that was.

[02:05:02] Stork's Nest Road?

[02:05:03] Stork's Nest, the one that they got rescued on that we, the last episode.

[02:05:07] So that's where you, they, they, wow.

[02:05:10] Jeez, that, that is, that's like relentlessly steep.

[02:05:13] It's a hall.

[02:05:14] Yeah.

[02:05:14] It's a, it's a beautiful road, but yeah, it's just like a constant steep pitch down.

[02:05:22] Boulders.

[02:05:23] It's, it's just like this, this boulder field, you know?

[02:05:26] It's 1.7 miles.

[02:05:29] Right.

[02:05:29] Yeah.

[02:05:29] It was like two miles long.

[02:05:32] And probably seemed like 20.

[02:05:34] Yeah.

[02:05:35] It did.

[02:05:36] It really did.

[02:05:37] But, um, uh, you know, I was very, very grateful to Aaron because, you know, he, he wore my backpack

[02:05:45] on his chest and, you know, he just, he, he, he was, you know, he's such a sharp man.

[02:05:52] I mean, he is, yeah, I didn't have to say anything and, and he's just, you know, so astute, so aware, so awake.

[02:06:02] He, it's, he's incredible.

[02:06:06] He's, he sounds like me.

[02:06:08] Yeah.

[02:06:08] Right.

[02:06:09] So you get, you get down.

[02:06:10] I gotta be the summit.

[02:06:12] Let's go.

[02:06:12] Let's go.

[02:06:12] Let's go.

[02:06:13] Yeah.

[02:06:13] Yeah.

[02:06:13] That's, that's me.

[02:06:15] Like the, the drill sergeant.

[02:06:17] So you get, you get down Dutchers Notch trail, you get to Stork's, uh, nest road.

[02:06:22] What happens?

[02:06:23] Is there somebody there waiting for you?

[02:06:25] How do you get out of there?

[02:06:27] Yes.

[02:06:27] You know, um, evidently part of the time that Aaron was away from the group with the four

[02:06:34] other guys, he was also making calls to his wife.

[02:06:38] So he called up his wife and he asked her to meet him at Stork's Nest road trailhead.

[02:06:46] Wow.

[02:06:48] So she's an hour and a half away.

[02:06:52] She drove to Stork's Nest road trailhead and she got there before us because, you know, of my sorry ass going, moving.

[02:07:00] Not sorry ass, you're injured ass.

[02:07:03] Come on.

[02:07:04] Yeah.

[02:07:04] The boat.

[02:07:05] Okay.

[02:07:05] Um, so she was there waiting for us.

[02:07:09] She picked up Aaron, took him to where the van was left.

[02:07:15] And then she proceeded to go home.

[02:07:17] Aaron got in the van and then picked us up at Stork's Nest road and drove us back to Beacon.

[02:07:24] Wow.

[02:07:25] So who's, who's in the group of us, you and some other group members?

[02:07:30] Yeah.

[02:07:31] There was a, um, uh, a woman who was on the hike also.

[02:07:35] So she decided that she wanted to bail also.

[02:07:39] It's a tough hike.

[02:07:40] You know, you know, a spark.

[02:07:42] Everybody thinks of the devil's path and stuff like that.

[02:07:44] But the escarpin is a tough hike.

[02:07:47] They don't realize that.

[02:07:49] Well, you know, there, there's, there was a lot I didn't realize because, you know, I had never even done a high peak until I had summited Wyndham.

[02:07:57] So, like I said, my, my only knowledge of the Catskills was when I had tried to climb Van Wichter and bushwhacking through.

[02:08:09] You freaking started out in the shit of the shit, by God.

[02:08:14] Jesus.

[02:08:15] Thanks to the fellow who organized that hike.

[02:08:18] What was it?

[02:08:19] What was his name again?

[02:08:20] Something Russin.

[02:08:22] We don't even say his name anymore on this show.

[02:08:26] I'm going to reach out to Trailbound Project because I do not mention my name in any of this, by the way.

[02:08:32] Yeah.

[02:08:32] By the way, Betsy, when, when you're done with the podcast, we're going to hook you up with our attorneys in terms of do we hike more and how.

[02:08:40] And, uh, I think you have a legal claim.

[02:08:42] Okay.

[02:08:42] Okay.

[02:08:43] So, uh, Aaron, Aaron comes back with the van.

[02:08:46] He takes, uh, you and the other hiker, where to the beacon train station or to, um, we, we left our own vehicles, um, there in beacon.

[02:08:58] So I just got in my vehicle and I, I drove myself home and the young lady who decided to bail, she drove herself.

[02:09:09] She was from Pennsylvania, drove herself back to Pennsylvania.

[02:09:12] Um, so is this your writer, writer, left leg?

[02:09:16] Um, it was my left leg.

[02:09:18] Yeah.

[02:09:18] So, so driving the car, wasn't that difficult.

[02:09:21] You know, if a quote, I would have figured out a way to, you know, I would, I would have figured it out.

[02:09:28] Even if I hadn't used my trekking pole to press on the gas.

[02:09:31] I would have figured out.

[02:09:33] Yeah.

[02:09:34] After this, you know, you got this checked out and stuff like that.

[02:09:38] What was your next plan?

[02:09:40] Would you, were you going to finish the hike?

[02:09:42] Of course.

[02:09:43] Um, no, no, no.

[02:09:46] Listen, the, what ended up happening was I had, um, emailed you, you know, um, to let you know that.

[02:09:56] I, I did go through with the escarpment trail through hike, but that, um, I wanted to let you know that, you know, I wanted to be honest with you.

[02:10:05] And I wanted to let you know that I didn't complete it, you know, so my, my, my goal didn't, didn't come to fruition and actually ended in a failed attempt.

[02:10:19] So, you know, I wanted to be honest with you and I wanted to let you know that that is in fact what happened.

[02:10:27] And I explained the entire story to you that, you know, we've talked about here and you came back to me with an email saying, wow, this, you know, this is fascinating.

[02:10:39] You know, perhaps, you know, this is material for a podcast question mark.

[02:10:44] And if you remember, I, it took me like three weeks to respond to your email.

[02:10:51] And the reason why it took so long was because, um, I, I felt bothered and I didn't understand my feelings.

[02:11:01] I didn't know why I was bothered about making a podcast about this story.

[02:11:06] And then it dawned on me that I didn't want a podcast about a failed attempt and I didn't want it to end there.

[02:11:15] And I figured, you know, yeah, you know what?

[02:11:19] I, I, I do want to do the podcast, but only after being able to say that I completed it.

[02:11:28] So I got back to you and, and I explained that, yeah, you know, I, I would be interested in doing podcasts, but not now only after I'm able to say that I completed the escarpment trail.

[02:11:44] So from there, I, I decided that I did want to do this podcast, but that I would have to complete the escarpment trail.

[02:11:54] So I wanted to complete the escarpment trail with others, but that if no one was willing to go that, you know, I, I would, I would complete alone.

[02:12:06] Did that happen? Did you, did you get a group together and how did, how did that work out?

[02:12:11] I, you know, I, I emailed the, the group that did do the escarpment trail and I didn't think I would have any luck because they were all, you know, probably fed up with the escarpment trail and would never want to do it again.

[02:12:26] Um, cause the second half to my knowledge was kind of like, uh, Stosh's experience on the Pemi loop with, with all that horrendous rain.

[02:12:38] So I did send an email out.

[02:12:41] I did let them know that, you know, my intention was to, you know, complete the second half of the escarpment trail and, um, I didn't get any takers.

[02:12:54] So I figured, okay, well, I'm, I'm probably going to be doing this on my, on my own.

[02:13:00] And, you know, there's a lot of like alpha types that, that were on the hike.

[02:13:05] So I told them, I said that, you know, I would even wear this big ass Dolly Parton, you know, fuck off wig, you know, it's blonde wig.

[02:13:14] Like if, if, you know, I would have had more takers in the event that I was just like this, you know, bodacious blonde with a guitar figure, you know, that I would use a blonde wig for my head gear.

[02:13:28] If that made them happy.

[02:13:29] And then I tried to appeal to them by, you know, saying also, you know, appealing to the guilt and saying, you know, what if, you know, some Canadian moose comes barreling down into the Catskills and stomps me into a pancake?

[02:13:45] How would you like them apples?

[02:13:47] So nothing worked, you know, so I guess like a month before I was going to do the, the hike, Aaron Leonard, he gets back to me and he says, so, you know, what's your plan?

[02:14:01] And I told them, you know, what days I was, you know, allocating for this and told them my plan that I was going to camp out at the North South Lake campground, catch a taxi to take me to Stork Nest Road, get back on the Dutch or Notch Yellow Trail, and then catch the Blue Trail, the Escarpment Trail from there.

[02:14:29] And then just head southward until I got back down to the North South Lake campground again, spend the night there next day, get back out onto the Escarpment and then complete the Escarpment.

[02:14:48] And lo and behold, he decided to join me.

[02:14:53] And it was not with another summit that Aaron Leonard decided to join me.

[02:14:59] He actually took a PTO day to do this.

[02:15:06] And he not only took a vacation day to do this, but a few others also.

[02:15:13] So I was really touched and, and really kind of brokenhearted that, you know, them joining me meant that much that they would be willing to sacrifice, you know, vacation days to do it.

[02:15:29] But they did.

[02:15:30] And we completed the Escarpment Trail together.

[02:15:36] Yeah.

[02:15:38] Yeah.

[02:15:38] Aaron Leonard was with me my first day, as was Bob Giannotti, who was a fireman for 30 plus years.

[02:15:53] He's went, went and joined another summit as a first responder.

[02:15:59] He joined.

[02:16:01] And that was me, Aaron Leonard, Bob Giannotti, and someone who was a retired police officer for 30 plus years in the Yonkers area.

[02:16:14] Dave Wagman, he joined.

[02:16:16] And that was the first day.

[02:16:17] And then the second day, Aaron couldn't join because he, he was trying to have funds allocated for another summit with the state.

[02:16:32] So he had to deal with some government bigwigs the next day.

[02:16:37] But Dave Wagman, the retired police officer, Bill Urban, who is what is a retired fireman of 27 plus years in the Yonkers area.

[02:16:52] He joined, as did the operations manager for another summit and myself the second day.

[02:17:01] And together, the four of us completed the trail.

[02:17:04] And then we went and had lunch at a restaurant after the completion of the trail in on Main Street in Tannersville.

[02:17:15] So that was a very rewarding experience to have these folks join me and to do so, you know, on using their vacation days.

[02:17:29] It was very, very touching.

[02:17:31] So would you say that another summit with their camaraderie and stuff like that is well worth it?

[02:17:39] Yeah.

[02:17:40] You know, they have this phrase.

[02:17:42] And it's inside these bracelets that they give us.

[02:17:47] And it says, inside the bracelet, it says, you are never alone.

[02:17:58] And they mean it.

[02:18:01] Yeah.

[02:18:01] They mean it.

[02:18:02] So.

[02:18:03] And it shows with you, you know, having to push through part of the escarpment and then them join you on the last part to finish it.

[02:18:14] You weren't alone.

[02:18:16] Yeah.

[02:18:17] Yeah.

[02:18:18] Yeah.

[02:18:18] Yeah.

[02:18:18] I, you know, I, I feel brokenhearted though, because, you know, when you, when you have like folks like that who are, are just so golden, it, it, it almost hurts.

[02:18:33] You know, if that makes any sense, you know, it almost makes you feel bad, you know?

[02:18:42] So I, I feel definitely forever in debt, you know, to you, to, to them, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a comfort, comforting feeling, but it's, it's also kind of a painful feeling to have, you know, people that are really that golden, you know?

[02:19:11] So if that, I don't know, does that make any sense?

[02:19:15] It does.

[02:19:16] When, when people are, are, are so good that it hurts.

[02:19:19] It does.

[02:19:21] You know, I gotta agree that, you know, with, you know, another summit and stuff like that, when I've hooked up with them for their, my payment loop and my presidential range.

[02:19:31] That it just, it hurts so much that these people are willing to do that much to make you feel out there and, uh, on, uh, on another level that they will do with all this for you and for your, uh, mindfulness.

[02:19:48] To get you out of where you are, to get you to that place of where you can feel comfort and stuff like that.

[02:19:55] Uh, you know, it's, it's a whole nother, you're, you're right.

[02:20:00] It's just, you can't, you can't explain it.

[02:20:04] And for Aaron to, to, to notice that you are in the way that you are to get you out of the hike, but then join you to finish the hike.

[02:20:15] I mean, that long pause right there.

[02:20:17] It was like, how the, how the hell do you explain that?

[02:20:20] Like, it's amazing.

[02:20:22] Like, Ted, what do you gotta say?

[02:20:23] It's amazing, right?

[02:20:25] Oh, I don't want to spoil your, your heartfelt moment with my sarcasm.

[02:20:31] So I'm trying to keep, I'm trying to keep quiet on this one.

[02:20:35] Trust me, Aaron would love it.

[02:20:36] Aaron's one of those kinds of guys though.

[02:20:38] Yeah.

[02:20:38] So, so let me ask you, Betsy, the second time around, do you have any knee pain?

[02:20:43] Was the knee up to one?

[02:20:44] No, you know, as a matter of fact, um, I, you know, knock on wood, because I don't even know what to attribute that to.

[02:20:54] But, um, I will be 100% transparent with you.

[02:21:01] And I will say that, you know, after having hyped these 33 high peaks, sometimes I drive from the Catskills back to Central Jersey, which is a three hour drive.

[02:21:16] And I can't get out of my car.

[02:21:19] Yeah.

[02:21:20] Yeah.

[02:21:20] Yeah.

[02:21:21] Well, all of us, no matter what our age is, we experienced that.

[02:21:26] So my, my pro tip is you get 10, 15 minutes down the road.

[02:21:30] You pull over, you, you do a little walk, right?

[02:21:34] Walk around for a few minutes.

[02:21:36] I have my places on my way home where I'll stop.

[02:21:38] I do a little walk.

[02:21:39] And then honestly, depending where I am, I'm either an hour to maybe two hours away from the house.

[02:21:47] I'll do the second stop.

[02:21:48] Because if you sit in your car for that whole drive home, it's like your body.

[02:21:54] It's like you're made out of cement and you get in the car and you're like liquefied cement, but slowly on the way home, you're just freezing up into cement, like a sculpture.

[02:22:07] And you get out of the car and you, and like my neighbors, I know they, they know that I go hiking on Saturdays and I have to think that when they see me get out of my car Saturday afternoon after a hike, they're like, there's no fucking way that guy went hiking today.

[02:22:22] I wonder what, I wonder what he was off doing.

[02:22:24] He wasn't hiking like that.

[02:22:25] Cause you're like, you feel like you just want to fall over.

[02:22:29] You know, I used the method that I used back in, in little school and stuff.

[02:22:34] Stop, drop and roll.

[02:22:36] I seriously stop, get out of the car, drop and roll.

[02:22:39] And I'm just like, ah, that's a little too extreme for me.

[02:22:42] I'm not, you, you do that along the side of the interstate, stop, drop and roll.

[02:22:47] I don't have interstates to go, baby.

[02:22:48] I go all awesome.

[02:22:50] 23C, 23A.

[02:22:52] Oh, it's awesome.

[02:22:52] Yeah.

[02:22:53] I get that luxury.

[02:22:54] Yeah.

[02:22:54] Most of my rides to and fro are on back roads.

[02:22:58] So Betsy, you finish up with the, uh, part two of the escarpment with some, uh, backpacking and then you go on to, to knock off.

[02:23:08] It would have been what?

[02:23:09] 31 more of the high peaks.

[02:23:12] How did that go for you?

[02:23:13] No knee pain.

[02:23:14] Do you have a good time doing it?

[02:23:16] Um, you know, I, I was very careful because once you come out of an injury like that, you know, you're, you're, you're very skeptical as, as, as far as your capabilities go.

[02:23:29] And, you know, I had discovered that, you know, these, these high peaks are no joke.

[02:23:35] And, um, I was very ginger initially and, um, I was concerned, but little by little, I gained the confidence that I needed to actually do, um, different traverses.

[02:23:56] And I actually built myself up in a very, very short amount of time to actually bang out the six.

[02:24:06] So in a very, very short amount of time, I went from injured and having to be taken off the escarpment trail to being able to hike the six.

[02:24:20] Impressive.

[02:24:22] Yeah.

[02:24:22] Well, you see, the thing is, is, you know, it's, it, it, it wasn't a cardio issue.

[02:24:29] It wasn't a muscular issue.

[02:24:30] I really think I, I must've jammed my knee and, and created a, a ligament injury or meniscus tear of some kind because, um, I haven't had that injury since, nor have I experienced any other injuries while doing the peaks.

[02:24:49] But the, you know, Tan had said something very, very important two podcasts ago.

[02:24:56] He was saying that, you know, in the Catskills, the hikes are what you make it depending on, you know, what speed you hike at.

[02:25:06] And that is so true because I can honestly say that if I'm in a situation where I, you know, I can control the pace at which I'm going.

[02:25:18] It's a, it can be a much more joyful hike than say, if I'm going at a moderate to fast pace, you know, uh, two plus miles per hour.

[02:25:32] That is, is, is, is a hard hike for me.

[02:25:35] If I'm, if I'm doing two plus miles per hour going moderate to fast pace, but if I'm going at a slow to moderate pace, it's actually a very joyful experience.

[02:25:46] And, um, I, I honestly, when I did the Burroughs range, it was at a very, very, um, slow to moderate pace.

[02:25:59] And I had such a joyful experience.

[02:26:02] It was so much fun.

[02:26:04] I really enjoyed the Burroughs range.

[02:26:07] Yeah.

[02:26:08] Well, I, you know, I'm, I'm a proponent of hike your own hike, go, go the pace that gets out of your forest experience what you want.

[02:26:19] I mean, some people want that, that deep burn cardio anaerobic, go hard, hammer down the whole way.

[02:26:29] And then there's, there's people that like to, you know, throttle it back and, you know, taking the surroundings more, uh, loaded, notice some of the more smaller and more obscure things along the trail.

[02:26:42] And, you know, you can vary it, vary it and, and just enjoy yourself.

[02:26:47] And I, I, I've noticed a lot of times when I, I do these group hikes or I'll go out with one person or another person and they just start off making a whole bunch of excuses about.

[02:26:57] They're not being a fast hiker.

[02:27:00] And I just think that's a by-product of people putting too much emphasis on, you know, I did the six and under X hours.

[02:27:09] Well, I'll tell you, there's times when I've done the six, I get between balsam cap and rocky.

[02:27:17] I just wander around, you know, some people do that traverse.

[02:27:22] They go the same way.

[02:27:23] They go the same way ever, every time you, you go around rocky, uh, to the East.

[02:27:30] You see some really, really, really interesting, uh, rock outcrops, rock formations, uh, the forest changes, same thing.

[02:27:41] Um, when you get to loan loan is very interesting when you go again to the Eastern side, but some people go out there and they just, you know, they bang out the six, they bang out the nine.

[02:27:53] And that's good for them because that's what they want to do.

[02:27:56] And then, you know, other people are into other things.

[02:27:58] So don't, you know, my, my message to anyone and everyone is just get out there and, and do what you want.

[02:28:05] So long as you leave no trace.

[02:28:09] Yeah.

[02:28:10] Right.

[02:28:10] And just enjoy your hike and have fun.

[02:28:14] So Betsy, what's next on the horizon?

[02:28:16] You got to get out there this winter, do those four.

[02:28:19] Right.

[02:28:20] What, what, what should we do as podcast hosts to help you and others like you feel more comfortable with winter hiking and the Catskills?

[02:28:32] Oh gosh.

[02:28:34] I, I think, you know, with you two as experienced hikers, you know, for the, for the less experienced hikers is just like pro tips on, on how to manage, you know, um,

[02:28:48] body, body temperature.

[02:28:51] And in my particular case, you know, different tricks for, you know, keeping my, you know, extremities, um, warm.

[02:28:59] Um, but yeah.

[02:29:02] Pro tips, you know, any, any type of, uh, information that you could give us to help us, you know, um, protect us from, from the elements while out there in the dead of winter, you know, would be wonderful.

[02:29:20] Nice.

[02:29:22] What about like post-hike bruising bites?

[02:29:24] Where'd you go after your escarpment hike?

[02:29:27] The first day, uh, we went to, uh, a restaurant, a Mexican restaurant on main street called, uh, Pancho Villas.

[02:29:38] Good stuff.

[02:29:40] Have you been there?

[02:29:41] I have.

[02:29:42] That was actually, I went there after my hundredth episode.

[02:29:46] Okay.

[02:29:47] Okay.

[02:29:48] Phenomenal.

[02:29:49] Yeah.

[02:29:50] The really, really good quality, fresh ingredients.

[02:29:55] I absolutely love their guacamole.

[02:29:58] Um, so I ordered, uh, plenty of guacamole and chips for the table and we just went to town and had our drinks and ate our chips with guacamole before our meals even arrived.

[02:30:12] That was, that was so much fun.

[02:30:14] And I would have to say that's probably right now my, my favorite restaurant.

[02:30:20] I really enjoy it there.

[02:30:22] Yeah.

[02:30:23] Correct.

[02:30:24] Yeah.

[02:30:24] I love that place.

[02:30:25] You know, Ted would have joined me on that if he, if he made the hundredth episode, but he didn't.

[02:30:30] Well, I always shame him for this.

[02:30:32] Yeah.

[02:30:33] I was at the time I was still negotiating between joining up on this podcast or, uh, being the star guest on the DEC podcast.

[02:30:45] Hey, at least I got, at least I got a, uh, uh, what's it called on my, my window.

[02:30:51] So.

[02:30:51] Yeah.

[02:30:52] Right.

[02:30:52] So, but the DEC, I mean, the rules were that I had to go to their headquarters, uh, up in New Paltz and show up, you know, with the suit and tie on and, you know, couldn't sit around and drink.

[02:31:07] Murphy's imported stout and, you know, have a good time with people like Betsy.

[02:31:11] So I know even though they were at the end, they were throwing sick money at me.

[02:31:17] They offered me a ranger van or a ranger truck and one of those cool ranger hats, you know, they had a lot of swag, but I decided to do this gig instead.

[02:31:28] You know, I remember your very first podcast, if I'm not mistaken, it was a March 8th.

[02:31:35] And, um, that podcast was, had me dying.

[02:31:41] You're, you're, you're a great addition to the podcast, Ted.

[02:31:45] And I, I so, so enjoyed, you know, listening to, to all of your re recaps the way you do.

[02:31:56] So, so what I'm hearing Stash, I love the way you recap.

[02:32:05] Oh yeah.

[02:32:07] Very, very.

[02:32:09] I'm a work in progress.

[02:32:11] No, no.

[02:32:12] I re I remind myself of that all the time.

[02:32:14] It's it's, I gotta admit, it's a great addition to have somebody to talk with, you know, if, if we don't have a topic, we can just throw something in there.

[02:32:22] Yeah.

[02:32:23] And Ted and I can just go, I hate to say ape shit on it.

[02:32:27] Yeah.

[02:32:28] And it's phenomenal.

[02:32:29] We stop shooting the shit.

[02:32:30] We just stir the shit.

[02:32:32] Yeah.

[02:32:33] Yeah.

[02:32:33] Keep, keep, keep stirring it up.

[02:32:35] And stuff like this, you know, with, with Betsy comes in and we talk and we both have crazy questions and quite honest questions and can throw this stuff into, you know, enlightenment of other people, you know, about, you know, just your, your through hikes, how,

[02:32:53] how, once again, you, you, after two days you, you, you were like, I can't do this.

[02:32:58] And then you're like, hell yeah, I want to complete this.

[02:33:01] You can come back.

[02:33:02] Once again, you came back and you completed it.

[02:33:05] And now you're, you're full of accomplishment and now you're going to kick ass.

[02:33:09] You have four more peaks to do with your 3,500.

[02:33:12] Please let us know when you're going to finish that.

[02:33:15] And I will be there.

[02:33:17] Tad, will you be there?

[02:33:18] Well, it all depends when, when bullshit.

[02:33:21] You'll be there.

[02:33:21] Yeah.

[02:33:22] Yeah.

[02:33:22] You know, and maybe I'll get some free Mexican food after the hike.

[02:33:26] That could be a reason to show up.

[02:33:28] But Betsy, you know, the, the, one of the real joys of your story is that you had that knee pain.

[02:33:37] You did the right, right thing and, you know, ended your journey that day, but you came back and you didn't let it be a setback.

[02:33:45] It just became a building block to get on with life and, you know, eventually knock out the six.

[02:33:52] And you're right around, you're just a few months away from finishing your first round and moving on to other stuff in the Catskills and elsewhere.

[02:34:03] Oh, yeah.

[02:34:05] Yeah.

[02:34:06] So, thank you, Betsy, for joining us on the show.

[02:34:08] Thank you being in support of the show.

[02:34:10] Thank you being a listener of the show.

[02:34:12] I really appreciate it.

[02:34:14] Glad you can join us tonight and talk about your journey on the Escarpin Trail.

[02:34:18] I really appreciate it.

[02:34:20] Did you have a good time?

[02:34:21] I had an awesome time and, you know, I, I, I'm the one that needs to thank you for first and foremost, you know, doing this podcast.

[02:34:32] And secondly, you know, I, I feel truly honored because it is the only podcast that I listened to.

[02:34:42] And I feel truly honored that you would invite me on as a guest and I'm touched and thank you, Stash.

[02:34:52] You're welcome.

[02:34:53] And thank you for loving the Catskills.

[02:34:54] And thank you for, once again, like believing in us and believing in, you know, another summit.

[02:35:00] Once again, another summit is an awesome organization that I can't, I can't say enough about that.

[02:35:06] Just amazing.

[02:35:07] And I'm once again, thank you for joining us.

[02:35:10] I appreciate it.

[02:35:11] And thank you to the monthly supporters and the monthly sponsors for still believing in the show.

[02:35:19] After 144 episodes, I always say this, but 144.

[02:35:23] Wow.

[02:35:24] Just insane to say that.

[02:35:25] Thank you to everyone who has donated.

[02:35:27] You can still buy us coffees to support the show.

[02:35:30] Really appreciate it.

[02:35:31] Betsy, you've done it before.

[02:35:32] You have done it to multiple times that we have done kind of like some sponsor events and stuff like that.

[02:35:40] So thank you to everyone who is still listening.

[02:35:45] 144 episodes in.

[02:35:46] That's, that's deep with the Catskills.

[02:35:48] That's insane.

[02:35:50] So Betsy, thank you for joining us on the show.

[02:35:53] We're going to say our goodbyes.

[02:35:54] Have a good night and let's get together in the future.

[02:35:57] Tell us when you're completing that 3,500 and we will put together a huge event for it.

[02:36:02] You got it.

[02:36:03] I promise to stay in touch and thank you for having me and, and best wishes to you both.

[02:36:10] Thank you once again for joining us and thank you for supporting the show.

[02:36:13] I really appreciate it.

[02:36:14] All right.

[02:36:14] Have a good night.

[02:36:15] Bye guys.

[02:36:16] Bye.

[02:36:19] Bye everyone.

[02:36:21] I just want to thank you for listening to the show.

[02:36:24] If you enjoyed the show, subscribe and throw down a smooth review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or any podcast platform that you use.

[02:36:34] You can also check daily updates of the podcast, hikes, hiking news, and local news on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and the official website of the show.

[02:36:47] Remember this.

[02:36:49] You got to just keep on living in the Catskills, man.

[02:36:54] L-I-V-I-N.

[02:36:56] Wicked.

[02:36:57] Wicked.

[02:36:58] Wicked.

[02:36:59] Wicked.

[02:37:00] Wicked.

[02:37:00] And...