Episode 141 - Trail Reroutes, Closures, Trail Updates and more

[00:00:00] All of a sudden on Facebook I see that somebody has installed some rungs, some metal rungs that go up this area and shit hits the fan. I mean, I gotta admit, you can't see this.

[00:00:15] What's that mean, shit hits the fan?

[00:00:17] Oh dude, the smile on my face, it was absolutely insane. I have never seen public outrage like this in my life. Like, I can remember this ever since till the day I die.

[00:00:31] It was crazy. So if you are a listener who went out there with settling torches, hacksaws or something to do this, where you know of said person or persons, you're not turning them in, they'll come on, they'll be totally anonymous.

[00:00:48] Oh yeah.

[00:00:49] And we'll have them as guests, we'll even like, we'll do like some encoding to change their voice. But if you know who is behind the removal.

[00:00:58] You're jumping the ship though. We didn't tell them the rungs were installed.

[00:01:02] Okay. So get to the rest of the story.

[00:01:05] Two days later.

[00:01:06] It was really that quickly?

[00:01:08] Gone.

[00:01:08] Two days? Wow.

[00:01:09] Two days. Rungs are gone.

[00:01:10] So we know it wasn't a government worker.

[00:01:13] I, well, you know what? I do not know.

[00:01:24] The bushwhacks were some of the worst days I've ever had in the mountains.

[00:01:29] Or life, really.

[00:01:31] Whereas Pantsy Mountain is totally opposite. It's a mountain on top of a crater.

[00:01:36] I think the weather challenges on this incident were particularly difficult.

[00:01:43] It is really the development of New York State. Catskills will respond to it.

[00:01:49] Yeah.

[00:01:54] You're listening to Inside the Line, the Catskill Mountains Podcast.

[00:02:00] Let's do this.

[00:02:05] Yeah, let's do this. 141.

[00:02:07] So we have no guests tonight besides ourselves.

[00:02:10] Why is that we have no guests? Is that like a sign of things to come?

[00:02:13] People don't want to be on the show. We've run out of talent. We need a new talent scout.

[00:02:18] What's going on here?

[00:02:20] Or is it I'm lazy?

[00:02:22] I wasn't going to suggest that, but I know that's what the listeners have been thinking.

[00:02:26] Probably. Probably.

[00:02:27] Yeah.

[00:02:27] I've been checking out the notes on Instagram and that seems to be the consensus.

[00:02:32] Yeah.

[00:02:33] It's, you know, I just, I just thought we'd, we'd have a night of, of random stuff going

[00:02:38] on and then we have pretty good amount of stuff to talk about tonight.

[00:02:43] And a lot of it involves the Catskills and a lot of it involves other areas.

[00:02:47] So I thought that, you know, tonight would be a great night to just chat away, shoot to

[00:02:52] shit for a long time.

[00:02:54] Probably.

[00:02:55] Oh, I don't know.

[00:02:56] I don't know.

[00:02:56] We'll see here.

[00:02:57] And it'll lead to other stuff.

[00:02:58] So what's the, what's the over under on tonight's show?

[00:03:01] Let's call it now.

[00:03:02] Now over 90 minutes or under.

[00:03:06] I probably say over maybe over not over 90.

[00:03:10] All right.

[00:03:11] So stay tuned.

[00:03:12] Stay tuned.

[00:03:12] Stash is calling it over 90 place.

[00:03:16] Sure.

[00:03:16] Well, you can see on your podcast app.

[00:03:20] I'll show is, but 90 minutes.

[00:03:22] That's what we're saying.

[00:03:23] I'm going to try to get them done in under 90.

[00:03:26] No, no, no.

[00:03:27] So you watch all my answers are going to be really short.

[00:03:29] With all the, with all the stuff we have to chat about, you know, there's.

[00:03:32] Let's just move on.

[00:03:33] Let's not talk about this.

[00:03:34] Well, you know, done with one of the things that I like to do, of course, you know, I,

[00:03:39] I, I compare the Catskills.

[00:03:42] I always, I'm always second guessing the podcast because, you know, of the amount of people

[00:03:47] that listen to it, you know, it's not, it's not as crazy popular as the other places.

[00:03:51] Of course the whites and the Adirondacks, you know, you have the 46 of 46 podcast.

[00:03:56] You have slasher sounds like a search and rescue podcast.

[00:03:59] And then you have this podcast.

[00:04:01] I'm always comparing that, but then I always look at the vast amount of people that travel

[00:04:07] to the Adirondacks and the whites, and then the Catskills, you know, it's just the difference

[00:04:12] is astronomical.

[00:04:13] It's insane.

[00:04:15] I mean, Catterstall Falls is huge, but comparing that to, you know, to Franconia Ridge and Mount

[00:04:22] Washington, I mean, even though you can drive up there is still pretty intense.

[00:04:25] It's pretty, pretty close.

[00:04:28] Yeah.

[00:04:28] So I was actually thinking about this today and I was thinking about it Sunday, even Sunday

[00:04:37] morning on my drive out to Tannersville and on my drive home from Tannersville.

[00:04:44] But I think the fact that somebody like Mike Kudish, in fact, that Mike Kudish and who he

[00:04:54] is the renowned Catskill forest historian, railroad historian, Catskill early American history

[00:05:07] historian, you know, the figure that he is.

[00:05:10] And the fact that Michael Kudish, if he wanted to spend his entire career studying the Adirondacks,

[00:05:18] studying the White Mountains, studying the Green Mountains, studying the Tychonics, studying any

[00:05:23] mountain range in the Northeast that you can name, why is it that Michael Kudish is here

[00:05:30] and has been here for 60 years in the Catskills, spent his summers here, came here for retirement?

[00:05:38] Why is it?

[00:05:40] Hmm.

[00:05:42] I mean, that's a good question.

[00:05:43] Yeah.

[00:05:44] He could go anywhere.

[00:05:45] He was trained up in the Adirondacks.

[00:05:47] He graduated from Paul Smith College.

[00:05:49] Well, no, he taught at Paul Smith.

[00:05:51] Taught it.

[00:05:52] Yeah, sorry.

[00:05:53] Taught it.

[00:05:53] Taught there, I think, for 35 years.

[00:05:57] He's in their Hall of Fame.

[00:06:00] I should read the write-up on him in the Hall of Fame.

[00:06:03] You'll read about a different side of Michael Kudish than we know.

[00:06:06] You'll read about a professor that all the students loved tremendously.

[00:06:11] Okay?

[00:06:13] But he's a remarkable person, walks around with not just a vast but just deep knowledge of Catskill

[00:06:22] mountain history, Catskill forest history.

[00:06:25] And the reason that he's devoted his life and career to the Catskills is because how unique

[00:06:32] the Catskills are.

[00:06:34] And so you read his book, you read the intro to the book, he spells it all out in the intro

[00:06:38] to his book.

[00:06:39] And that says something.

[00:06:42] For somebody like him who knows otherwise, he could have said that about the Greens, he

[00:06:48] could have said that about the Adirondacks, he could have said that about anywhere else

[00:06:52] in the world.

[00:06:52] But he views the Catskills as this very unique, one and only kind of a place.

[00:06:57] And he's devoted all this time here.

[00:06:59] And it's not because there's all these epic climbs.

[00:07:04] There's not, it's not because there's all these ultra hikes to do.

[00:07:08] It's not because of something that would catch somebody's fancy on social media or on some

[00:07:16] faster, fastest known time post or whatever.

[00:07:19] It's because once you get into the Catskills, the rock, how it's been desiccated over centuries

[00:07:28] and how it's been revegetated after just being scourged by the ice sheets.

[00:07:36] It's an immensely unique place.

[00:07:38] And you can really, you know, get into just spending, you know, burying your head like

[00:07:44] we did this weekend in the depths of the Catskills just to discover, you know, how it came to be

[00:07:51] the way it is.

[00:07:52] So I think the fact that he does what he does here is a testament to its uniqueness and the

[00:07:57] intrigue of the Catskills.

[00:07:58] And God bless all these people that go up to the Adirondacks, such as this one person I follow on Instagram, who hikes extensively in

[00:08:10] Harriman State Park, which is a very popular and a very accessible park.

[00:08:14] And this person hikes in the Catskills quite extensively and has ventured out to the whites and now just recently to the Adirondacks.

[00:08:24] She posted today that she's never seen more people on a trail than she did today in the Adirondacks or yesterday in the Adirondacks.

[00:08:34] Wow.

[00:08:35] Why is that?

[00:08:36] Right?

[00:08:37] On a Monday.

[00:08:38] Yeah, or on a Sunday, whichever day it was.

[00:08:40] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[00:08:40] I'm not sure from the post, but yeah, there's just a lot of people up there and they're very popular.

[00:08:45] And look, I used to hike up in the Adirondacks when I was much younger and it was a fascinating place to me.

[00:08:51] And if I lived closer, chances are I would go there.

[00:08:55] But that doesn't mean that the Catskills are any less unique and any less of a mystery and full of intrigue as they are, at least to me.

[00:09:09] So.

[00:09:09] And I agree with you.

[00:09:11] You know, I think Kudish also does his observations and stuff like that up here because the Catskills are very unique and diverse.

[00:09:19] We have, you know, mountain peaks with balsams on the top.

[00:09:23] We have, you know, Slide Mountain who was once, what do they call that thing that it was where it was above the glacier?

[00:09:31] Oh, yeah.

[00:09:31] I forget the name proper for it, but it's believed to be the only mountaintop in the Catskills that was not covered by the ice sheet during the Wisconsin ice age.

[00:09:44] Yeah.

[00:09:45] So we have that.

[00:09:46] We have bogs that he loves to study.

[00:09:48] He likes to find, you know, how old the Catskills were, some parts of the Catskills were, stuff like that.

[00:09:54] You know, like what we found, we found, you know, a courts, massive courts today that, you know, middle of nowhere.

[00:10:01] It's just so diverse that it brings out the amazing uniqueness of the Catskills and that, you know, we have quarries here and there.

[00:10:10] We had old railroads running through here.

[00:10:12] We had towns that existed.

[00:10:14] We had farmlands that existed up above 3,500 feet.

[00:10:17] It's just, it's just a vast difference.

[00:10:20] And, you know, just to think of that just as like, wow.

[00:10:25] Yes.

[00:10:26] Crazy.

[00:10:27] Well, when you want to think about the wow factor of the Catskills, particularly in comparison to any other forest or mountain area in the Northeast, think about this.

[00:10:40] And I'm going to ask you to make sure you have your seatbelt on and you're strapped in.

[00:10:45] Okay.

[00:10:46] Because when you think about it, if it wasn't for the Catskills, the topography, the forests, the lack of development, what would New York City be like today?

[00:11:01] How would you impound all that water in those reservoirs and have it like crystal clear, clean, pure drinking water in such massive quantities that you can get to New York City to let New York City, you know, to continue to grow from the early 1900s to the present time with really out any water problems.

[00:11:26] Although we did hear about that one time that they were seeding the clouds.

[00:11:30] Remember that?

[00:11:30] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:11:31] Right.

[00:11:32] Okay.

[00:11:32] But other than that, I mean, you look at New York City, it's like the financial capital of the world, right?

[00:11:38] It's the most cosmopolitan place you can imagine.

[00:11:41] I mean, it has such a diverse portfolio of people, culture, foods, anything to deal with modern culture from art to music to theater.

[00:11:53] It's all in New York City from, you know, sadly, homeless people sleeping on the street to people living in these, you know, poshy, poshy tens of millions of dollars worth of, you know, apartments overlooking Central Park.

[00:12:10] It's just crazy.

[00:12:11] The diversity in the city would not have happened without the Catskills.

[00:12:17] Because of the water of the Catskills.

[00:12:19] Yeah, yeah.

[00:12:20] And it's also, I mean, sadly, because of the people that were displaced when these reservoirs were created.

[00:12:25] And we heard in our last episode how the Catskill Watershed Corporation is, you know, helping the locals fight economically and culturally to preserve that heritage and maintain a level of economic viability in this community, you know, for the sake of the heritage and the culture.

[00:12:51] But, yeah, it's the Catskills that really make New York City possible.

[00:12:56] Love it.

[00:12:57] And, you know, we'll talk about Dr. Kudish's stuff later on because Ted and I had a little excursion that we went on.

[00:13:03] It was absolutely fantastic.

[00:13:05] And once, I wouldn't say once in a lifetime because he's a fantastic human being.

[00:13:10] He'll invite anybody and everybody to teach them anything.

[00:13:13] It's fantastic.

[00:13:14] So we'll talk about that later.

[00:13:16] But I was just, you know, I was just thinking of the differences, you know, that I've seen in with the Catskills and the other places.

[00:13:22] And I always try to compare this podcast to the other places.

[00:13:26] And I can't.

[00:13:27] I got to stop doing that shit because the Catskills are its own unique place.

[00:13:32] We have such an awesome community here that we all connect together.

[00:13:37] We all, you know, help each other out.

[00:13:39] We all thrive together.

[00:13:40] And it's fascinating.

[00:13:42] So I just want to get that out of the way.

[00:13:44] Thank you, everyone who is still listening to the podcast.

[00:13:47] You know, the Catskills kicks ass.

[00:13:49] And I won't stop until the DEC tells me to stop.

[00:13:54] We just got that email from them today.

[00:13:57] So...

[00:13:58] Oh, yeah.

[00:13:58] I didn't read it.

[00:13:59] I didn't open it.

[00:13:59] I'm not going to.

[00:14:02] Screw that.

[00:14:02] So, you know, one of the big discussions we've had in the past week, of course, is the hurricane, Helene, that hit down in the Florida Panhandle, lower southern area.

[00:14:15] You know, we got news from Hudson Valley Weather, our friends at Hudson Valley.

[00:14:21] So this was last Friday.

[00:14:23] Helene hit and made landfall at 1110 PM near Perry, Florida, as a category for hurricane with 140 mile per hour winds and a central presser of 938 megabytes.

[00:14:33] Megabytes?

[00:14:34] No, wait.

[00:14:36] Mega bars?

[00:14:38] Mega bars.

[00:14:39] Is that what it is?

[00:14:39] I'm not sure.

[00:14:41] We'll have to have our scientific department.

[00:14:43] That sounds horrible.

[00:14:44] I just made myself look like an idiot.

[00:14:46] And now this makes the...

[00:14:47] No wonder why we have no listeners.

[00:14:49] Yeah, right.

[00:14:50] I'll have to get Adam back on here.

[00:14:53] So, yeah.

[00:14:53] This now makes eight landfalling category four or five storms in the U.S. in the last eight years, or the same amount that has occurred in the prior 57 years combined.

[00:15:03] So it is also the strongest hurricane to make landfall in the Big Ben area of Florida with the last storm occurring in 1896, known as Cedar Keys hurricane.

[00:15:14] Multiple gauges have reported their highest storm surge ever from Tampa on the north.

[00:15:19] To the incredible size of the storm and its forward speed of 25 miles per hour, it has sparked hurricane warnings as far north as metro Atlanta.

[00:15:28] And for the first time ever, hurricane-force winds were able to penetrate further inland instead of than usual.

[00:15:35] In addition, as the storm's moisture begins to clash with the topography of the Appalachian Mountains to the western Carolinas,

[00:15:42] catastrophic flooding looks to occur as it did happen.

[00:15:45] Now, some of these areas have already seen 10 inches of rain before Hellenia has even made landfall.

[00:15:51] Another 10 to 16 inches of rain looks to occur in these areas with forecasted flood levels exceeding records from 1916.

[00:15:59] Currently, over 2 million people are without power in the southeast United States.

[00:16:04] And as of today when we're chatting on Tuesday, so this is three days later, four days later, still 1 million people are without power.

[00:16:14] Definitely thoughts are with everyone impacted by Hellenia in the hopes of safe and swift recovery.

[00:16:20] Now, as we progress later into this recording, we find out that it was an absolute devastation down there.

[00:16:27] Mostly not just on the coast, but in the western Carolinas, northern Carolinas, where the mountains are big.

[00:16:35] And most of this was flooding from due to the rivers, but a lot of this was due to we had a bunch of dams and levees breaks that totally pulverized the towns, the small towns and the areas and stuff.

[00:16:53] And the recovery time from this is just going to be astronomical.

[00:16:57] When and where will we get back to normal?

[00:17:00] Will we ever get back to normal down there?

[00:17:03] I'm just I'm blown away because, you know, you know, this happened up here, but not as as strong as a level.

[00:17:11] We had Hurricane Irene totally demolished the Catskills area.

[00:17:16] And what is the what was one of the most devastating occurrences to happen in the Catskills in the past 200 years?

[00:17:26] And we've never seen anything like it.

[00:17:28] And this kind of brings back memories of, you know, when I was back in 2011.

[00:17:33] Was it when when when Hurricane Irene happened?

[00:17:36] Was it 2000?

[00:17:37] There's a flood of 2006 and Hurricane was 2011.

[00:17:41] Was Hurricane Irene.

[00:17:42] And, you know, I helped as much as I couldn't.

[00:17:46] I couldn't we couldn't do anything because nobody can get into the Catskills unless you've flown in.

[00:17:50] Pratsville was devastated.

[00:17:51] Markerville was devastated.

[00:17:53] Shandaken.

[00:17:53] All that area was absolutely blown away.

[00:17:56] And it's just.

[00:17:59] And it's just a catastrophic time that.

[00:18:03] We have to think and what can we do to help?

[00:18:06] And, you know, it's it's insane.

[00:18:10] What do you think?

[00:18:10] Well, I think what we can do to help the immediate situation is just to send money, you know, sending a box of this or a back box of that.

[00:18:21] It's kind of hard to distribute goods from point A to point B.

[00:18:27] But putting money in their coffers and allowing the local emergency responders to use that money to buy resources, to alleviate some of the economic hardship.

[00:18:38] That's certainly on a short term basis goes a long way to help.

[00:18:43] The more difficult question is, is these events seemingly become more frequent and arguably more severe?

[00:18:50] What is it that we can do to change the course of climate change?

[00:18:56] And how effective, how effective we can be over the course of the next five, ten years to curtail the cumulative effects of, you know, what's occurred over the past, you know, century.

[00:19:12] Yeah. And, you know, it's so we had Alex on here and he was talking about different like climate changes over in the Catskills, but not about specific about climate changes, about microclimates, how it impacts different parts of the Catskills.

[00:19:28] And I brought up the question of climate change and he just like shook his head and he's like, let's not get into that yet.

[00:19:35] And I'm like, yeah, so let's get into that later on.

[00:19:37] So hopefully, yeah, yeah, I was like, hopefully, you'll come back in on later on and we'll talk about climate change.

[00:19:43] But, you know, a lot of people pose that question of, is this just an occurrence that has happened, you know, at once every hundred years?

[00:19:52] Is it because of climate change?

[00:19:54] You know, like it's just one of those big, you know, questions, occurrences that was it just, did it just happen or was it because of what we have done in the past, you know, hundred years?

[00:20:10] Yeah, well, and it doesn't necessarily have to be kind of like that bilateral dualism where it's one or the other and not the combination of the two and or a combination of the two and other factors.

[00:20:23] But certainly, the more we develop areas and cut grade fill, the terrain, create impervious surfaces, decrease the ability of the earth in these areas to absorb the natural rainfall and promote that water, just sheet flowing over the top of the water like you would see on a road or a parking lot.

[00:20:49] The ability of the water, just sheeting out, just sheeting out.

[00:21:19] The stabilization that occurs, the stabilization that occurs, the restrictions on development.

[00:21:23] When you drive through the Catskills, you're really driving through a huge stormwater detention basin.

[00:21:30] That doesn't mean, as we saw in 2011, that a hurricane is not going to wreak havoc in the Catskills.

[00:21:37] But arguably, the damage it causes is less severe than if all of that stormwater detention wasn't in place.

[00:21:48] And then we can get into that, you know, this is not an excuse to build up stormwater detention in these other areas.

[00:21:55] It's kind of a more prudent thing to use a combination of measures to minimize the destruction and the impact of these storm events.

[00:22:06] And you see, for example, these coastal homes that they're now elevating them up on pillars.

[00:22:14] Houses that used to be built on sand dunes are now, they're propping them up so they're 10, 15, 20 feet, you know, above the ground surface.

[00:22:25] Because when you have a storm event coming in, the storm surge will actually now go under the house.

[00:22:31] Well, isn't it time just to get these houses off the coastline?

[00:22:36] Yeah.

[00:22:36] You know, I mean, we've, certain things seem to be inevitable, or at least not that which we can curtail over the course of the next, you know, 25 years.

[00:22:48] But we, I think we needed to just develop a more proactive mindset amongst the population that we've reached this critical mass as a populated earth where we need to be more considerate of striking a balance between our use of the globe or the earth and the forces of nature.

[00:23:12] Yeah.

[00:23:13] You know, and we do, you know, you're talking about people who uplift their house on, you know, the dunes and stuff like that.

[00:23:19] We, I've seen this in the Catskills, you know, you go upon those areas of Lexington and stuff like that along the West Hill.

[00:23:26] They have done that as well.

[00:23:28] But those homes have been there over a hundred years.

[00:23:32] They have been there as farm lands and stuff.

[00:23:34] And they finally, you know, those people have finally realized that there can be catastrophic floods coming from this area.

[00:23:41] And, you know, they lifted up there to save their family and stuff, not to save their second to third home that they've had.

[00:23:49] And it's, you know, it's crazy to see some of that happening.

[00:23:54] It very rarely happens, but it happens all the time on the coast and stuff like that because they have the money to do that.

[00:24:00] And, you know, we have those events.

[00:24:03] And that's why, you know, one time I was going to get Danny Davis back on here to talk about that.

[00:24:08] You know, what can the floods do?

[00:24:11] Like, how much time do we have with our embankments of loose soil that we have up here?

[00:24:18] Because, you know, we don't have a lot of most tributaries and stuff like that.

[00:24:23] And the esopus, stuff like that, has loose gravel.

[00:24:27] So what happens when we have these major floods?

[00:24:29] How much time do we have?

[00:24:31] Like.

[00:24:32] Yeah, like I said, depends in part on the intensity of the storm event.

[00:24:37] But that's, that's surely Danny Davis is one of his specialties is.

[00:24:42] Yeah.

[00:24:42] And he won't come back on.

[00:24:44] We got to get, I got to, you got to convince him.

[00:24:46] Yeah.

[00:24:46] I'll, I'll have a little chat with Danny.

[00:24:48] But when you talk about that house out in Westkill or the houses out in Westkill, there's that one on Sprucedon Road right by its tumbleweed ranch drive or something like that.

[00:25:02] Tumbleweed Ranch Road.

[00:25:05] Where you can see that they installed the massive concrete and large non-native boulder wall along, along the Westkill to keep the river from changing course and going right into this house.

[00:25:23] Is that the one with the, the helicopter pad?

[00:25:25] That's.

[00:25:26] I'm, look, I'm not, I'm not that snoopy.

[00:25:28] I don't know what they have in their backyard.

[00:25:30] Okay.

[00:25:31] I do, I do know some pretty high net worth individuals over there and I'm kind of thankful because they have in the past given me permission to go on their property and do my bushwhacking.

[00:25:42] You should know that area because that's where the, uh, the, the one drainage area comes off of North Dome.

[00:25:48] Uh, what is it called?

[00:25:49] The, the fishing access or something like that?

[00:25:52] Oh yeah.

[00:25:52] That's, that's right across the street.

[00:25:55] Yeah.

[00:25:55] From that house.

[00:25:56] And that's the landowner I'm speaking of.

[00:25:58] Oh yeah.

[00:25:59] Yeah.

[00:25:59] So I know.

[00:26:00] So you're saying I did this illegally?

[00:26:02] No, I didn't.

[00:26:02] I'd like to research this.

[00:26:03] No, no, you can bushwhack up through there by staying entirely on private property or you can contact, uh, a certain fellow who was intrigued by the concept that somebody would do what I did and said, sure, go ahead.

[00:26:19] And so I did many times.

[00:26:21] Don't die.

[00:26:22] Basically.

[00:26:22] Yeah.

[00:26:23] Yeah.

[00:26:23] Yeah.

[00:26:23] I was actually, you know, a couple of weeks ago, I bushwhacked Westkill and it brought back memories of hiking up on that ridge.

[00:26:32] Oh yeah.

[00:26:33] So it's fun.

[00:26:35] Once again, crazy times to think about, but you know, I wonder if these times we have nowadays are just kind of enhanced because of social media, you know, you know, back in the days, you know, 1990s and stuff.

[00:26:49] We had, uh, what was that major hurricane that hit the East coast started with a C?

[00:26:54] Was it a C?

[00:26:57] A C?

[00:26:58] Ah, damn.

[00:27:00] This is like one of the biggest hurricanes ever to hit like the whole East coast.

[00:27:05] And it was just absolutely insane.

[00:27:07] What year?

[00:27:07] 1996.

[00:27:09] I'm thinking.

[00:27:11] Yeah.

[00:27:11] I, if I go off the page, I'll, I'll lose everybody.

[00:27:15] But 1996.

[00:27:18] Um, Fran.

[00:27:20] Fran.

[00:27:21] Talking 96.

[00:27:22] I'm, I'm pulling up the list here.

[00:27:24] I remember Agnes, but Agnes was in the seventies.

[00:27:27] That's how old I am.

[00:27:31] I don't know, man.

[00:27:32] Oh, wait, wait, wait.

[00:27:33] No, man.

[00:27:34] 19.

[00:27:35] Bertha was pretty big.

[00:27:36] 1992.

[00:27:37] Andrew.

[00:27:38] Hurricane Andrew.

[00:27:39] Oh, okay.

[00:27:39] You remember that?

[00:27:40] There was a major impact, uh, hurricane in 1992 cost $27 billion in damages.

[00:27:48] So like, you know, how, how, wow.

[00:27:52] It's been over 20, 1992, 30 years.

[00:27:55] No shit.

[00:27:58] Yikes.

[00:27:59] Let's think about that.

[00:28:00] You know, 27 billion into 1992.

[00:28:02] What is it going to cost for us now in, in, in 19,

[00:28:08] 20, 24 with this hurricane?

[00:28:12] Yeah.

[00:28:12] Well, that brings to the forefront.

[00:28:14] One of the other problems that these major storm events entail,

[00:28:19] and that is, uh, substantial insurance claims.

[00:28:24] And then the whole concept behind insurance is spreading the risk of loss

[00:28:28] over a large group of people.

[00:28:31] So the policyholders for that insurance company,

[00:28:35] no matter where they're located, whether along the coast or not,

[00:28:39] whether in the path of the hurricane or not,

[00:28:41] they share in the cost of claims made under the policies that are affected by

[00:28:49] that hurricane or storm event.

[00:28:52] So it's not a surprise your homeowners insurance premiums are going up.

[00:28:57] Yeah.

[00:28:58] It's not,

[00:28:58] it's not a surprise that there's, uh,

[00:29:00] a fewer and fewer insurance companies issuing homeowners insurance in the

[00:29:04] state of California because,

[00:29:07] all right.

[00:29:07] All right.

[00:29:07] State.

[00:29:07] It's depressing.

[00:29:08] It's getting depressing.

[00:29:09] Let's get away.

[00:29:10] All right.

[00:29:11] So, yeah.

[00:29:11] So major impacts,

[00:29:12] of course,

[00:29:13] this app is impacted the,

[00:29:15] the Appalachian trail down there and the South bounders.

[00:29:18] I'm pretty sure there's,

[00:29:19] if there's anybody who's doing North bound,

[00:29:21] they're doing winter stuff and it's really weird,

[00:29:23] but South bounders have been impacted going on from West Virginia,

[00:29:26] all the way to North Carolina,

[00:29:28] down to Tennessee.

[00:29:29] So, uh,

[00:29:31] I don't think anybody who was doing the Appalachian trails,

[00:29:34] listen to this,

[00:29:34] but please,

[00:29:35] uh,

[00:29:35] you know,

[00:29:36] check yourself before you wreck yourself when you go down there.

[00:29:40] So speaking of like,

[00:29:41] like trail enhancements and stuff like that,

[00:29:43] and you know,

[00:29:44] trail stuff,

[00:29:45] we've had some recent notices from the DEC that I haven't seen in a very

[00:29:49] long time in the Catskills.

[00:29:51] And this is,

[00:29:52] I was,

[00:29:52] I was absolutely flagger pig acid to see this stuff.

[00:29:56] So over in the Hunter Westkill wilderness,

[00:29:59] Toss trails has completed a trail improvement project on the devil's path

[00:30:04] located near Geiger point.

[00:30:06] Now that's an absolutely atrocious area.

[00:30:08] That was full of mud.

[00:30:10] So the project involved an installation of stone turf biking and stepstones

[00:30:15] closing off her paths that develop over time as hikers attempted to

[00:30:19] avoid the muddy sections off the trail.

[00:30:21] So yeah,

[00:30:22] that happens all over the place in the Catskills.

[00:30:25] And,

[00:30:25] and the Geiger point was a,

[00:30:28] a place that I never thought would do that really,

[00:30:31] because it's,

[00:30:32] it's not as popular as some other places.

[00:30:34] Like,

[00:30:35] you know,

[00:30:35] I thought they probably would do that on Hunter mountain alone.

[00:30:39] When you get up towards the summit,

[00:30:40] there are very many places where the trail goes from like a Jeep trail to now a

[00:30:45] massive 16 wheeler trail because everybody's trying to avoid the middle

[00:30:48] part.

[00:30:49] So,

[00:30:50] but cool.

[00:30:51] Greg,

[00:30:51] thank you to us trails to,

[00:30:53] uh,

[00:30:53] completing that.

[00:30:55] Uh,

[00:30:55] I haven't been over there in years.

[00:30:57] Last time I've been over there,

[00:30:58] it was probably like four years ago.

[00:31:03] And Tad silent.

[00:31:04] He's like,

[00:31:04] I haven't been over there in freaking like 16 years.

[00:31:07] Yeah.

[00:31:07] Well,

[00:31:08] it hasn't been that long.

[00:31:09] I was just checking out this firm.

[00:31:11] They're a for-profit company based out of the accord area.

[00:31:17] So this,

[00:31:17] this reflects an instance where the DEC is hired an outside firm to come in and do

[00:31:23] trail maintenance.

[00:31:25] Instead of hiring the trailer,

[00:31:27] a roller rober stroke or something like that.

[00:31:28] That'll,

[00:31:29] yeah.

[00:31:29] Well,

[00:31:29] I'm not saying,

[00:31:30] I don't know whether these people are more expensive,

[00:31:33] less expensive for the same price,

[00:31:35] but you know,

[00:31:37] it's nice to see that the DEC is being proactive and bringing in whomever to,

[00:31:45] to do this work.

[00:31:47] Yeah.

[00:31:48] But like what,

[00:31:49] like there are,

[00:31:50] I got to admit,

[00:31:52] there are other trails that they could be,

[00:31:54] be working on.

[00:31:55] Of course.

[00:31:56] You know,

[00:31:57] like that.

[00:31:57] but is it,

[00:31:58] so did they pick this because of their perception of the number of people that

[00:32:04] hike through there?

[00:32:05] Is that the,

[00:32:06] the basis for doing this?

[00:32:09] You know,

[00:32:10] where is it?

[00:32:11] What,

[00:32:11] why is it that they pick this?

[00:32:14] Yes.

[00:32:14] But when you say you haven't been over there in how long again?

[00:32:17] Oh God,

[00:32:17] it's,

[00:32:17] it's been,

[00:32:18] I got to admit maybe like three,

[00:32:21] four years.

[00:32:22] It's been a while because last time I went over there was when I did a

[00:32:25] traverse from,

[00:32:26] well,

[00:32:27] I didn't,

[00:32:27] I,

[00:32:27] yeah,

[00:32:27] it was,

[00:32:28] I was a loop from Sprucedon to Sprucedon when we went and did Hunter and

[00:32:33] Southwest Hunter.

[00:32:34] Yeah.

[00:32:36] I get,

[00:32:36] I get over there a few times a year.

[00:32:39] Yeah.

[00:32:43] The rationale for doing this in part,

[00:32:45] it's pretty accessible to get up there with the things that they used to do

[00:32:50] the repair.

[00:32:51] There's a lot of traffic there.

[00:32:53] And presumably when you get over there to check it out,

[00:32:56] you'll find out that they were able to completely,

[00:32:59] or at least they should have completely squared away the mess that was being

[00:33:05] created over there.

[00:33:07] Cause there's,

[00:33:08] there's other spots where it's arguably more extensive and harder to get to.

[00:33:14] So,

[00:33:15] you know,

[00:33:15] this would be the low hanging fruit.

[00:33:18] Arguably.

[00:33:19] And that's,

[00:33:19] that's what it seemed.

[00:33:20] That could have been one of the reasons they went for this locale.

[00:33:24] True.

[00:33:25] You know,

[00:33:26] and I was,

[00:33:27] I was very near there when I did Becker Hollow,

[00:33:29] but I chose to do the lower part of Becker Hollow and then up around to,

[00:33:34] to Hunter.

[00:33:35] But last,

[00:33:35] you know,

[00:33:36] and you know,

[00:33:37] I remember,

[00:33:38] I would say,

[00:33:39] you know,

[00:33:39] four years ago when I did it,

[00:33:41] but before that,

[00:33:42] when I did Southwest Hunter and Hunter,

[00:33:44] that Geiger point was actually a pretty good viewpoint.

[00:33:46] And now it,

[00:33:47] it's actually,

[00:33:48] it's totally overgrown.

[00:33:49] There's nothing you can see.

[00:33:50] Yeah.

[00:33:51] I've actually bushwhacked through there.

[00:33:54] You know,

[00:33:55] or what is it?

[00:33:56] What do they call it?

[00:33:56] Uh,

[00:33:58] uh,

[00:33:58] Christmas tree Ridge or something like that?

[00:34:00] Uh,

[00:34:01] no,

[00:34:02] uh,

[00:34:02] I bushwhacked over from,

[00:34:05] uh,

[00:34:05] diamond notch through there.

[00:34:08] And it was nice.

[00:34:10] Yeah.

[00:34:11] In the winter and this,

[00:34:12] the snow,

[00:34:13] the surface conditions were horrible for it.

[00:34:16] When I say sugar snow,

[00:34:17] do you know what I'm talking about?

[00:34:20] Uh,

[00:34:20] the stuff that basically goes to the side when you step on.

[00:34:23] Yeah.

[00:34:24] It's like,

[00:34:24] it's like a snowshoeing,

[00:34:26] in a bowl of sugar.

[00:34:29] And because the snow has thawed,

[00:34:31] somewhat melted and then frozen again and,

[00:34:34] and become more of a,

[00:34:35] a round crystal as opposed to a snowflake.

[00:34:39] It doesn't pack or consolidate.

[00:34:41] Well,

[00:34:42] it doesn't chink in together.

[00:34:44] So you,

[00:34:45] you rarely get traction.

[00:34:47] You just sink,

[00:34:48] sink,

[00:34:49] sink,

[00:34:50] sink.

[00:34:50] Now,

[00:34:50] when we think about Geiger point and,

[00:34:53] and the,

[00:34:53] the,

[00:34:54] the rock outcropping or shelf that it creates,

[00:34:57] I was coming up a fairly steep slope without getting any traction.

[00:35:01] It was nothing but ice underneath because how it,

[00:35:04] the week before it got warm,

[00:35:06] consolidated.

[00:35:06] And it was one of those days where you're out there soul searching why you are a bushwhacker in the winter,

[00:35:15] as opposed to,

[00:35:16] I don't know,

[00:35:17] just pick anything else like,

[00:35:18] uh,

[00:35:19] playing gin rummy,

[00:35:21] checkers,

[00:35:22] uh,

[00:35:22] crocheting at home.

[00:35:23] A lot of other activities come across as being more appealing than bushwhacking Hunter Mountain on a really,

[00:35:32] really cold day in February.

[00:35:35] Sounds fun.

[00:35:36] In the sugar snow.

[00:35:37] But,

[00:35:38] you know,

[00:35:38] given,

[00:35:39] given the alternative,

[00:35:40] yeah,

[00:35:41] I guess I would take it over crocheting.

[00:35:43] Yeah.

[00:35:43] You know,

[00:35:44] I guess it would be,

[00:35:45] uh,

[00:35:46] pretty cool to go up and check on what they've done over the years because once again,

[00:35:50] I haven't been there in a long time.

[00:35:51] Well,

[00:35:51] I,

[00:35:52] you know,

[00:35:52] to be honest,

[00:35:53] I was below there a couple of years ago,

[00:35:56] like maybe a year ago,

[00:35:58] I went and did the search for the Fenwick lumber company.

[00:36:01] So I,

[00:36:02] I didn't hit Geiger Point.

[00:36:03] I went up to Southwest Hunter through major bushwhack off of the devil's path.

[00:36:09] And then I went up to the devil's lake and lean to,

[00:36:12] and then bushwhacked up to Hunter Mountain.

[00:36:15] Did you start at 214?

[00:36:18] No,

[00:36:18] I started the other side.

[00:36:20] Okay.

[00:36:21] So we went up,

[00:36:22] we went up through Spruxton,

[00:36:24] hit Diamond Falls,

[00:36:26] and then went up there.

[00:36:27] And then at a certain elevation,

[00:36:28] we took a hard right.

[00:36:29] Uh,

[00:36:30] and it's really crazy.

[00:36:31] If you know where you are,

[00:36:33] you can stop and look to the right and see an opening.

[00:36:37] And it's,

[00:36:38] that's where it is.

[00:36:39] That's where Diamond Notch is.

[00:36:41] No,

[00:36:42] that's where the,

[00:36:42] the Fenwick lumber company was.

[00:36:44] Oh yeah.

[00:36:45] Yeah.

[00:36:45] I've,

[00:36:46] I've,

[00:36:46] I've bushwhacked through there and it's no,

[00:36:47] no treat.

[00:36:48] It,

[00:36:49] I thought it was amazing.

[00:36:50] It's,

[00:36:51] it's absolutely to,

[00:36:53] to see the,

[00:36:55] what it used to be,

[00:36:56] but then the going up,

[00:36:58] we,

[00:36:58] we couldn't find the,

[00:36:59] the,

[00:36:59] the crazy thing is we couldn't find the railroad tracks that led up to Southwest Hunter,

[00:37:03] which was,

[00:37:04] used to go down into the old camp.

[00:37:05] So that's,

[00:37:07] that's a crazy thing.

[00:37:08] But going up,

[00:37:08] we found pipes.

[00:37:10] We found all these,

[00:37:11] uh,

[00:37:12] little,

[00:37:13] uh,

[00:37:14] foundations and stuff like that,

[00:37:16] but we couldn't find the,

[00:37:17] the railroad tracks.

[00:37:18] I'm like,

[00:37:18] I know there,

[00:37:19] there isn't any existing like somewhat,

[00:37:21] but you can find a pattern.

[00:37:23] I've actually found railroad tracks.

[00:37:25] Oh,

[00:37:26] you mother flipper.

[00:37:27] Yeah.

[00:37:28] Yeah.

[00:37:28] Yeah.

[00:37:29] Small gauged,

[00:37:30] uh,

[00:37:30] small gauge railroad tracks.

[00:37:32] At first I was like,

[00:37:33] what the fuck is this?

[00:37:34] And then I'm like,

[00:37:35] Oh,

[00:37:36] Oh,

[00:37:36] this is what it's gotta be.

[00:37:37] It's from the,

[00:37:38] the old railroad that used to go through here.

[00:37:41] So,

[00:37:41] yeah.

[00:37:41] And that's where the,

[00:37:42] the old herd path was once a railroad track,

[00:37:44] correct?

[00:37:45] Yeah.

[00:37:46] So,

[00:37:46] I mean,

[00:37:47] I didn't see anything along that point and it's just,

[00:37:50] it's an absolute,

[00:37:51] uh,

[00:37:51] amazing area.

[00:37:53] So awesome for Tahoe,

[00:37:54] Tahoe.

[00:37:55] I know they've done some other stuff too,

[00:37:57] as well.

[00:37:58] I'm not sure if they did that over a plateau area.

[00:38:03] Where they have steps over there,

[00:38:04] but I think we're going to talk about that later.

[00:38:07] Okay.

[00:38:08] Moving along,

[00:38:09] moving along.

[00:38:10] Remember we have the 90 minute cutoff.

[00:38:12] So hell no,

[00:38:13] hell no.

[00:38:13] So also toss trails will be soon commencing work over a minor reroute on the

[00:38:20] blackhead trail between Lockwood gap and blackhead mountain.

[00:38:23] So this area did a reroute and replace a particularly steep section of trail,

[00:38:30] which has been prone to erosion and trail widening.

[00:38:33] I have,

[00:38:33] I have absolutely certain nowhere.

[00:38:35] This is the existing route where we remain open until the reroute is

[00:38:38] complete.

[00:38:38] So that's pretty,

[00:38:39] that's pretty neat.

[00:38:40] So if you go up there during these times,

[00:38:42] you could probably see,

[00:38:43] uh,

[00:38:44] them doing their work or a possible,

[00:38:46] you know,

[00:38:47] them doing the reroute that'll go around it,

[00:38:49] which I,

[00:38:50] I have a feeling will involve switchbacks,

[00:38:54] which I know we don't believe here in the Catskills.

[00:38:56] We don't believe in that,

[00:38:56] but I know kind of this area within the,

[00:39:00] the blackhead range,

[00:39:02] because there is some,

[00:39:03] some steep areas after you start commencing into the,

[00:39:07] the Lockwood gap that you just start going up.

[00:39:10] And it's just absolutely treacherous with erosion and stuff like that.

[00:39:14] I wouldn't even think it's like not even a quarter of a mile into your,

[00:39:18] your,

[00:39:18] your left-hand turn going up the Lockwood gap,

[00:39:21] going up blackhead mountain that it'll start to change and reroute.

[00:39:25] And even,

[00:39:26] even up a little bit further,

[00:39:27] it might go around.

[00:39:29] It doesn't say how much,

[00:39:30] how long it is.

[00:39:32] That's a thing.

[00:39:33] Yeah.

[00:39:34] Well,

[00:39:34] I'm just,

[00:39:35] I'm just trying to conjure up in my mind where Lockwood gap is.

[00:39:40] What are you?

[00:39:41] I come on.

[00:39:43] Yeah.

[00:39:44] So I'm coming up the trail that brings me up between black dome and

[00:39:47] blackhead.

[00:39:48] That's Lockwood gap.

[00:39:49] That's right in between the intersection.

[00:39:52] Yep.

[00:39:52] Okay.

[00:39:53] That's,

[00:39:54] that's what they call Lockwood gap.

[00:39:56] And so why,

[00:39:56] why is it that the,

[00:39:58] the call,

[00:39:59] the bottom of the call needs any trail maintenance?

[00:40:02] Is it more,

[00:40:04] I don't think it's that spot.

[00:40:05] I think it's a little bit further up.

[00:40:07] It's when you start getting an elevation.

[00:40:10] Towards blackhead.

[00:40:11] Yeah.

[00:40:11] Is it where we see the rebar pipes that come out of the,

[00:40:16] the rock on blackhead?

[00:40:18] 100% correct is where I think that's where they started that.

[00:40:22] Yeah.

[00:40:23] That's yeah.

[00:40:23] There's some,

[00:40:24] there's some merit to doing that there.

[00:40:27] Um,

[00:40:29] what was the old rebar?

[00:40:30] What do you think that was there for?

[00:40:32] I've always questioned that.

[00:40:33] Yeah.

[00:40:33] I think what they had were those,

[00:40:35] um,

[00:40:37] maybe timber boxes there that they would fill up with stone to create steps.

[00:40:43] Hmm.

[00:40:44] Good point.

[00:40:45] Yeah.

[00:40:45] I was,

[00:40:45] I also,

[00:40:46] I also have vivid memories of my first time in the winter climbing up blackhead via what you're telling me is Lockwood gap.

[00:40:54] It was a struggle.

[00:40:57] Yeah.

[00:40:57] I almost felt like Moses going up the mountain to get the tablets,

[00:41:01] you know,

[00:41:01] the 10 commandments.

[00:41:03] Mm-hmm.

[00:41:04] It was a while.

[00:41:05] Well,

[00:41:05] I was up at conditions and I was trying to close out my,

[00:41:08] my first round with the winter requirements.

[00:41:10] And I was going away the following weekend.

[00:41:13] So it was do or die that weekend.

[00:41:15] And I did it.

[00:41:16] That's what it is.

[00:41:18] Yeah.

[00:41:19] You know,

[00:41:19] this is actually,

[00:41:20] you know,

[00:41:20] exciting,

[00:41:21] you know,

[00:41:21] because once again,

[00:41:22] we have certain areas that you,

[00:41:24] you see these awesome trails being created.

[00:41:26] You know,

[00:41:27] if you,

[00:41:27] if you've ever approached Thomas Cole from the Western side over towards,

[00:41:33] uh,

[00:41:33] Claude's Hill and,

[00:41:34] uh,

[00:41:35] the Barnum road area,

[00:41:36] it just,

[00:41:37] it shows you how good trail creating could be.

[00:41:41] And this might like,

[00:41:44] like be a great reroute because we have some places,

[00:41:48] you know,

[00:41:49] we've,

[00:41:49] we've seen in the past that have done reroutes that have been actually very

[00:41:53] good.

[00:41:54] And,

[00:41:55] you know,

[00:41:55] one of those,

[00:41:56] I recently was over there,

[00:41:58] uh,

[00:41:59] on twin mountain and sugar loaf mountain where they have done some reroutes.

[00:42:03] And I thought they had been actually very phenomenal areas too.

[00:42:06] So,

[00:42:07] all right.

[00:42:07] Let's,

[00:42:08] let's talk about twin mountain.

[00:42:12] And,

[00:42:13] and 2019 when the DEC put the rebar steps in,

[00:42:22] well,

[00:42:23] that was fun.

[00:42:24] Okay.

[00:42:25] But you,

[00:42:26] so you know what I'm talking about?

[00:42:27] Oh,

[00:42:27] absolutely.

[00:42:29] I was actually the,

[00:42:30] one of the first people to check that out after someone cut it down.

[00:42:34] Uh,

[00:42:35] after,

[00:42:35] after,

[00:42:36] uh,

[00:42:37] you weren't there before or you're denying,

[00:42:39] you're denying any involvement in the incident to my denying.

[00:42:43] Okay.

[00:42:44] Is that on advice of counsel?

[00:42:46] I don't even know what that means.

[00:42:48] So your lawyer,

[00:42:49] so you're not telling us what your lawyers told you to do.

[00:42:51] Were you taking the fifth?

[00:42:53] Not.

[00:42:53] Not.

[00:42:54] Not.

[00:42:54] So tell us,

[00:42:55] tell us what happened in 2019 on twin mountain.

[00:42:57] What are we talking about to those people who don't have,

[00:43:01] uh,

[00:43:02] an experience going in the Catskills,

[00:43:05] going back to 2019.

[00:43:06] All right.

[00:43:07] So you see do.

[00:43:08] So in 2019,

[00:43:10] there was a,

[00:43:10] a little,

[00:43:12] it wasn't a reroute,

[00:43:13] but,

[00:43:13] uh,

[00:43:13] a tree fell,

[00:43:16] like an old tree fell that you could climb up.

[00:43:18] It was kind of like a,

[00:43:19] a kind of route finder.

[00:43:20] You could just grab onto the,

[00:43:22] the sections of the tree and pull yourself up.

[00:43:24] Amazing section of devil's path,

[00:43:27] kind of scrambling section.

[00:43:29] That kind of made you think stuff like that.

[00:43:31] It was a rite of passage to get through there.

[00:43:34] It was,

[00:43:35] it was actually a phenomenal area because you were just like,

[00:43:38] man,

[00:43:38] do I like,

[00:43:40] do I kind of grab on and let myself down and grab onto the next route?

[00:43:44] It's,

[00:43:44] it's sliding and stuff.

[00:43:46] So let's compare and contrast that.

[00:43:48] And I called,

[00:43:49] I call the tree.

[00:43:50] What I would refer to the tree is an assist.

[00:43:53] It's something which would assist you up or down.

[00:43:56] How would you compare its difficulty?

[00:43:58] That section to Cornell crack.

[00:44:02] Uh,

[00:44:03] Cornell crack was easy compared to this.

[00:44:06] This required to either bushwhack around or you,

[00:44:11] I don't even think you could push rock around because there were steep cliffs on the other side.

[00:44:15] Oh yeah.

[00:44:15] Yeah.

[00:44:15] And this,

[00:44:16] this side was just basically do or die.

[00:44:18] You look at the other side and there's just massive amounts of dirt and cliff.

[00:44:22] And do you remember the rope?

[00:44:25] There wasn't any rope up there when I did it.

[00:44:27] Well,

[00:44:27] yeah.

[00:44:27] Well,

[00:44:27] I would go through there at times.

[00:44:29] There was a rope there.

[00:44:30] And then you would ask yourself,

[00:44:32] would you really use a rope that you found in the woods?

[00:44:37] Right.

[00:44:38] To help you go down like,

[00:44:39] you know,

[00:44:39] 15,

[00:44:39] 20 feet.

[00:44:41] Yeah.

[00:44:42] Okay.

[00:44:42] Enough to cause serious bodily injury.

[00:44:45] If that rope or to snap or come undone.

[00:44:47] Okay.

[00:44:48] So we have,

[00:44:49] we have the tree,

[00:44:50] which was an assist up this vertical rock lift on the Western side of Twin Mountain.

[00:44:58] Yeah.

[00:44:58] What is the DEC do?

[00:45:01] Well,

[00:45:01] well,

[00:45:01] the tree comes down in the winter,

[00:45:03] the winter,

[00:45:04] it comes down because of the snow and ice.

[00:45:07] And all of a sudden on,

[00:45:10] on Facebook,

[00:45:11] I see that's that somebody has installed some rungs,

[00:45:14] some metal rungs that go up this area and shit hits a fan.

[00:45:20] I mean,

[00:45:21] I got to admit,

[00:45:22] I mean,

[00:45:22] you can't see this.

[00:45:23] What's that?

[00:45:23] What's that mean?

[00:45:24] Shit hits the fan.

[00:45:25] Oh,

[00:45:25] dude,

[00:45:26] the smile on my face.

[00:45:27] It was absolutely insane.

[00:45:29] I have never seen a public outrage like this in my life.

[00:45:35] Like I can remember this ever since till the day I die.

[00:45:39] It was crazy.

[00:45:40] So if,

[00:45:40] if you are a listener who went out there with settling torches,

[00:45:45] hacksaws or something to do this,

[00:45:48] where,

[00:45:49] you know,

[00:45:50] upset person or persons,

[00:45:53] you're not turning them in.

[00:45:54] They'll come on.

[00:45:55] They'll be totally anonymous.

[00:45:56] Oh yeah.

[00:45:57] And they,

[00:45:57] we,

[00:45:58] we can,

[00:45:58] we'll have them as guests.

[00:46:01] We'll even like,

[00:46:02] we'll do like some encoding to change their voice.

[00:46:04] But if you know who is behind,

[00:46:06] you're jumping the ship though.

[00:46:08] We didn't tell them the rungs were installed.

[00:46:10] Okay.

[00:46:11] So get to the rest of the story.

[00:46:13] Two days later.

[00:46:14] Was it really that quickly?

[00:46:16] Gone.

[00:46:17] Wow.

[00:46:17] Two days.

[00:46:17] Rungs were gone.

[00:46:19] So we know it wasn't a government worker.

[00:46:21] I wouldn't,

[00:46:22] you know what?

[00:46:22] I do not know because I,

[00:46:25] I am very like,

[00:46:27] I am skeptical of this because it happened so quickly and so smoothly.

[00:46:33] That could it have been the DC covering up the shit that they did like that?

[00:46:39] I got to admit that was absolutely the,

[00:46:42] the public outcry on that.

[00:46:45] Totally went crazy.

[00:46:47] Yeah.

[00:46:47] It was the,

[00:46:48] the outrage was off the chart,

[00:46:49] but do you think the DEC other than like a,

[00:46:52] uh,

[00:46:52] life or death emergency could mobilize so quickly two days to remove those?

[00:46:57] I mean,

[00:46:58] they,

[00:46:58] they knew where it was.

[00:46:59] They knew what they needed to get removal and they did it.

[00:47:03] It actually was a very smooth cut.

[00:47:06] Like the cuts.

[00:47:07] It was,

[00:47:08] it was professional.

[00:47:09] Let's just say it was a pro job.

[00:47:11] Okay.

[00:47:11] Might've been the Sopranos or the Gambino family,

[00:47:15] but it was a professionally done.

[00:47:18] It was professionally done.

[00:47:19] This wasn't done by some amateur that hikes the mountains just to do the fastest

[00:47:23] on time.

[00:47:24] Yeah.

[00:47:24] This was done by somebody who knows how to cut rebar.

[00:47:29] And,

[00:47:29] you know,

[00:47:30] I was just,

[00:47:31] when,

[00:47:31] when my buddy and Travis went up there and we were just like,

[00:47:34] Holy crap.

[00:47:35] Like we were,

[00:47:35] we,

[00:47:36] you could put your hand over the rock and,

[00:47:39] and it felt like nothing.

[00:47:40] You could see them,

[00:47:41] but nothing was there.

[00:47:42] And we were just like,

[00:47:44] damn,

[00:47:44] this is some good work.

[00:47:47] Like whoever did this knew what the hell they were doing.

[00:47:49] And you don't have a clue.

[00:47:51] No clue.

[00:47:52] Like nothing has come up in that.

[00:47:53] Yeah.

[00:47:54] Yeah.

[00:47:54] Can we get somebody get on this?

[00:47:57] Like that is,

[00:47:57] Ooh.

[00:47:58] So we're going to put a,

[00:47:59] we're resurrecting this Catskill story and we're going to put a bounty out

[00:48:05] there.

[00:48:05] We're going to post a bounty.

[00:48:07] This is another episode that needs to be done.

[00:48:10] 100%.

[00:48:10] If you can get a person with knowledge of how this went down and who did it,

[00:48:17] if not the person who did it,

[00:48:19] we'll,

[00:48:23] and we'll,

[00:48:24] we'll like,

[00:48:25] you know,

[00:48:25] change their voice.

[00:48:27] We'll protect them so they can remain anonymous,

[00:48:29] but we want the lowdown.

[00:48:31] I think it was itty bitty.

[00:48:32] Ah,

[00:48:33] yes.

[00:48:34] Yes.

[00:48:35] But I,

[00:48:36] I gotta admit that was the,

[00:48:37] the most insane event to happen in the Catskills in the past.

[00:48:42] Okay.

[00:48:42] So now let's go back to Lockwood gap.

[00:48:45] Yeah.

[00:48:45] Let's go back to that,

[00:48:46] which has those rebars from way back when,

[00:48:48] when the DEC did something,

[00:48:50] it remained there for a number of years.

[00:48:51] It wasn't maintained,

[00:48:54] fell into disrepair,

[00:48:56] whatever happened,

[00:48:57] happened and we're left with those bars sticking out of the rock.

[00:49:02] It's scary.

[00:49:02] Actually,

[00:49:03] no,

[00:49:03] it is.

[00:49:04] Like in the winter when they're partially covered with snow or under the snow,

[00:49:07] you could really get hurt with those being there.

[00:49:10] But why is it now that the DEC thinks that they can send somebody over to Lockwood gap

[00:49:15] and do something which may or may not be just like what they did on twin?

[00:49:22] I have a,

[00:49:23] I mean,

[00:49:23] I mean,

[00:49:24] a total reroute wouldn't involve rebar.

[00:49:26] I'm pretty sure that I'm pretty sure that they,

[00:49:29] they've learned from that mistake,

[00:49:32] you know,

[00:49:32] that could cause from social media outrage.

[00:49:35] And,

[00:49:36] you know,

[00:49:37] we have had some awesome pre routes in the Catskills.

[00:49:40] You know,

[00:49:40] we're talking about catarscale falls,

[00:49:43] uh,

[00:49:43] you know,

[00:49:44] plateau,

[00:49:45] uh,

[00:49:45] you know,

[00:49:46] twin mountain.

[00:49:46] I got to admit that was an awesome reroute.

[00:49:49] It's still kept,

[00:49:50] uh,

[00:49:50] the devil's path unique.

[00:49:53] And I guarantee anybody who hasn't traveled that area would never know that they even existed.

[00:49:58] And hopefully,

[00:49:59] hopefully,

[00:50:00] you know,

[00:50:00] you can venture over there and you could see where it was,

[00:50:03] but you have to know where.

[00:50:05] And I,

[00:50:06] I got to admit that like,

[00:50:07] look at the smile on my face that I know exactly where it was.

[00:50:11] I'm just like,

[00:50:11] I'll get that over there.

[00:50:13] But you know,

[00:50:14] who,

[00:50:14] who knows what this reroute would be like?

[00:50:17] I haven't seen,

[00:50:17] I haven't seen any UMPs on this.

[00:50:20] Hmm.

[00:50:21] We'll have to look up.

[00:50:22] We'll have to do a photo request.

[00:50:23] Okay.

[00:50:24] Yeah.

[00:50:25] All right.

[00:50:26] So,

[00:50:27] so we just,

[00:50:28] just again,

[00:50:28] before we move on,

[00:50:30] um,

[00:50:31] Stosh will be posting a substantial bounty for information that leads to the secret guest about the removal of the

[00:50:44] Via Frittal in 2019 here for nice on twin mountain.

[00:50:53] Oh man,

[00:50:53] that makes it so much better.

[00:50:55] The Via Frittal.

[00:50:57] And you don't have to stay at the Mohonk mountain house to use it back then.

[00:51:02] You just have to bring your own settling torches and goggles.

[00:51:07] And,

[00:51:07] and some,

[00:51:07] uh,

[00:51:08] I'm freaking,

[00:51:08] uh,

[00:51:10] sawzaws and stuff.

[00:51:11] God,

[00:51:12] that was such a good cut.

[00:51:13] Uh,

[00:51:13] I'll have to post about that again.

[00:51:15] So also,

[00:51:16] uh,

[00:51:16] DC operations staff are constructed a newly expanded parking area located within the Peacomus Valley corridor in a sundown road.

[00:51:24] Uh,

[00:51:24] wild forest.

[00:51:25] Now the project is located between the former trailer field parking area on Peacomus road,

[00:51:31] uh,

[00:51:31] and designed to centralize parking in the corridor and accommodate approximately 55 cars.

[00:51:37] Wow.

[00:51:37] The parking area accommodate visitors to the Peacomus blowhole,

[00:51:40] provide access to the long path system,

[00:51:43] and generate assets to adjacent state lands for anglers,

[00:51:47] hunters,

[00:51:47] and other recreation as pursuing their perspective activities.

[00:51:51] Now is anticipated.

[00:51:52] This will be completed by the fall winter of 2024.

[00:51:56] I know that's already going.

[00:51:57] It's,

[00:51:57] it's already kicking and stuff like that.

[00:51:59] It's almost done actually.

[00:52:01] But,

[00:52:02] uh,

[00:52:03] once again,

[00:52:04] an area that,

[00:52:05] uh,

[00:52:07] has had very little to do before 2019 has amazing impact in the past four years.

[00:52:15] It's insane.

[00:52:17] So what do you think is a improved parking area in that corridor near blue hole?

[00:52:25] Is that a good idea?

[00:52:26] Bad idea.

[00:52:28] That's tough.

[00:52:29] Yeah.

[00:52:30] You know,

[00:52:30] for,

[00:52:31] for people who want to experience something as the blue,

[00:52:33] blue hole,

[00:52:34] I think it's,

[00:52:35] it's absolutely pretty cool.

[00:52:36] And they've done a great job with the,

[00:52:39] the,

[00:52:40] the local forest rangers and the,

[00:52:43] the volunteers and such teaching about the blue hole.

[00:52:47] And such.

[00:52:48] you know,

[00:52:49] making,

[00:52:49] you know,

[00:52:50] people actually paid up to go in there instead of just,

[00:52:52] you know,

[00:52:53] having the place being uproar full of thousands of people.

[00:52:56] So,

[00:52:57] but as a hiker,

[00:52:58] you know,

[00:52:59] going there,

[00:52:59] doing peak and moose in,

[00:53:01] you know,

[00:53:02] 2016,

[00:53:03] 2017,

[00:53:03] where there was two cars in the parking area.

[00:53:05] When I finished at three o'clock in the afternoon was just absolutely crazy on a,

[00:53:12] on a summer,

[00:53:12] summer day.

[00:53:13] That was,

[00:53:13] you know,

[00:53:14] 85 degrees.

[00:53:16] Yeah.

[00:53:16] Now,

[00:53:17] when you're finishing up the hike and you,

[00:53:18] you are a hundred yards away,

[00:53:20] you can smell the charcoal.

[00:53:23] 100%.

[00:53:23] From somebody's barbecue.

[00:53:26] It's crazy.

[00:53:27] Some,

[00:53:27] it's sad.

[00:53:28] Some music.

[00:53:29] As you get closer,

[00:53:30] you're almost hit in the head by a Frisbee.

[00:53:33] Right.

[00:53:34] So.

[00:53:35] It sucks.

[00:53:36] But you know,

[00:53:39] uh,

[00:53:39] time moves on.

[00:53:40] And we'll,

[00:53:40] we'll this like blow over.

[00:53:42] Like it has everything else.

[00:53:43] Like,

[00:53:43] will this be like another Borscht belt time of where everybody comes and visits the blue hole and then forgets about it?

[00:53:49] It's when we're done,

[00:53:51] when the popularity or the,

[00:53:53] uh,

[00:53:54] fad of posting shots on social media,

[00:53:59] when that passes,

[00:54:01] just like disco came and went in the seventies,

[00:54:06] maybe these natural wilderness wilderness areas will lose this immense popularity that they presently have.

[00:54:16] Yeah.

[00:54:16] It sucks.

[00:54:17] I don't know if you,

[00:54:19] you know,

[00:54:19] if you've ever been to blue holes,

[00:54:20] pretty cool place.

[00:54:21] Uh,

[00:54:22] it's a very,

[00:54:22] very cold.

[00:54:23] Uh,

[00:54:25] but you know,

[00:54:27] it,

[00:54:27] it,

[00:54:28] it sucks,

[00:54:29] but you know,

[00:54:30] I do not blame people wanting to visit these beautiful areas,

[00:54:33] but I,

[00:54:34] I just don't hope they do it with respect.

[00:54:37] You know,

[00:54:38] that's how I started out.

[00:54:39] And that's hope.

[00:54:39] I hope,

[00:54:40] I hope they start out and leave no trace.

[00:54:44] Exactly.

[00:54:46] Exactly.

[00:54:46] Leave no charcoal brick cats.

[00:54:50] Leave no chicken behind.

[00:54:54] All right.

[00:54:54] So next.

[00:54:55] All right.

[00:54:56] Hold on.

[00:54:56] How do I,

[00:54:57] so completed by wall winter wall,

[00:55:00] fall.

[00:55:00] Jesus completed by fall winter,

[00:55:02] 2024.

[00:55:03] It's already being established,

[00:55:04] but somewhere right now.

[00:55:05] So once again,

[00:55:06] now we'll move on to the catarscale wild forest.

[00:55:09] DEC has established a restricted area within the catarscale clove corridor at the location,

[00:55:16] commonly referred to as the fawns leap located area on catarscale Creek adjacent to route 23a.

[00:55:24] Do not enter within 15 feet of cliff edges in the area of fawns leaf waterfall.

[00:55:30] Signs that have been posted to the area indicated a boundary restriction.

[00:55:36] So,

[00:55:37] I mean,

[00:55:38] Tad,

[00:55:38] you and me,

[00:55:39] we,

[00:55:39] we've,

[00:55:40] I've never visited this area.

[00:55:42] I really never want to because of the popularity of it.

[00:55:45] So most of the people that listen to this podcast are really unaware of this area and probably will not go down and visit that area.

[00:55:55] Silence.

[00:55:56] He,

[00:55:56] he's like,

[00:55:56] yeah,

[00:55:57] I'm,

[00:55:57] you know,

[00:55:58] I just,

[00:56:00] I hate to say this,

[00:56:01] but,

[00:56:03] you know,

[00:56:03] people,

[00:56:04] people are going to violate rules and they're not going to obey restrictions and folks are going to get hurt.

[00:56:11] And then when they get hurt,

[00:56:13] they're going to blame the government for not warning them that they shouldn't do something that was kind of obviously inherently dangerous.

[00:56:23] But that's,

[00:56:24] look,

[00:56:25] you know,

[00:56:25] we have guardrails on the sides of roads because people drive too fast and they go off the road and that doesn't mean they should get seriously injured or died.

[00:56:34] But,

[00:56:35] you know,

[00:56:36] I just,

[00:56:37] it goes back to,

[00:56:40] I guess,

[00:56:41] social media amps up these attractions.

[00:56:43] People come up here and they start to do things.

[00:56:46] And it's,

[00:56:48] it's sad.

[00:56:49] Nobody wants to see somebody else get hurt unless they're trying to sack.

[00:56:52] Josh Allen.

[00:56:54] Then they should get knocked out of the game.

[00:56:58] That the quarterback from Buffalo Bills?

[00:57:00] It is.

[00:57:01] It is.

[00:57:01] How do I know that?

[00:57:02] Wow.

[00:57:02] You should know that as an upstay guy.

[00:57:03] I mean,

[00:57:03] you should see.

[00:57:04] I know hockey.

[00:57:04] Hockey is the only sport you should follow.

[00:57:07] Okay.

[00:57:07] I'll have to get back into hockey.

[00:57:09] So we have something in common.

[00:57:10] Yeah.

[00:57:11] Well,

[00:57:11] they have the Hudson Valley Vipers down there now.

[00:57:14] Really?

[00:57:14] Where do they play out of?

[00:57:15] Where's the,

[00:57:16] is it New Paltz?

[00:57:17] The Kipz?

[00:57:18] No,

[00:57:18] it's,

[00:57:18] yeah,

[00:57:18] it's not New Paltz.

[00:57:20] There's the ice in New Paltz.

[00:57:22] Yeah.

[00:57:22] So we'll go down.

[00:57:24] I will definitely go down there to see black bears face up,

[00:57:26] but you know,

[00:57:27] forget that.

[00:57:28] So we're talking about Fawn's Leap.

[00:57:29] Very popular area.

[00:57:31] Of course,

[00:57:31] you know,

[00:57:32] if you see anything involving the Catskills within the past five years,

[00:57:36] it's been Fawn's Leap,

[00:57:38] Catterskill Falls,

[00:57:39] or the Blue Hole.

[00:57:40] But Fawn's Leap is where it's at because,

[00:57:42] you know,

[00:57:43] one,

[00:57:44] I remember the past four years,

[00:57:45] there was one post that somebody did up on,

[00:57:48] on good old Instagram.

[00:57:50] That was like a 70 something year old guy doing backflips off of Fawn Leap.

[00:57:56] And all of a sudden this,

[00:57:57] this shit blew out.

[00:57:58] Once again,

[00:57:59] the shit hit the van and everybody went here.

[00:58:02] And I'm pretty sure that parking area involves five cars maybe.

[00:58:08] And then you have the ice climbers,

[00:58:10] uh,

[00:58:10] parking area above,

[00:58:11] which involved maybe eight.

[00:58:13] So just imagine everybody from the lower Hudson Valley and beyond coming here to want to jump off,

[00:58:20] you know,

[00:58:21] the cliff,

[00:58:21] which is,

[00:58:22] you know,

[00:58:22] that's a good,

[00:58:23] I'm picking like 40,

[00:58:24] 45 feet.

[00:58:26] I remember people saying,

[00:58:27] you know,

[00:58:28] you get up higher in the trees at 65 feet.

[00:58:31] So this involves some,

[00:58:32] some crazy stuff.

[00:58:33] And there has been amazing,

[00:58:36] insane rescues over there.

[00:58:38] Of course,

[00:58:39] with this involving flash flooding that I'd known that they have done in the past like year,

[00:58:46] where there's been two or three events that involve flash flooding of people swimming down there,

[00:58:51] getting on the other side.

[00:58:52] And then all of a sudden they can't come back.

[00:58:54] And now the DEC has to hook up a rope to both sides and do kind of like a,

[00:58:59] uh,

[00:59:01] I,

[00:59:01] I,

[00:59:02] I would even say a rope rescue because they have to guide people across the flooded water with the rope secured in both areas across trees.

[00:59:10] It's pretty crazy.

[00:59:12] And I had smiling.

[00:59:14] He's got a little smile on his face.

[00:59:15] Cause I'm watching this guy that you're talking about.

[00:59:19] Climbs up a tree.

[00:59:21] He's not even on the cliff.

[00:59:22] He climbs up a tree and drops,

[00:59:25] drops into Fonz leap.

[00:59:27] And he has to do it with surgical precision because there's like a hundred people around the swim hole.

[00:59:33] Okay.

[00:59:33] You know,

[00:59:34] he,

[00:59:34] he,

[00:59:35] he needs to hit the bullseye or he's going to kill somebody,

[00:59:37] not himself.

[00:59:39] So how old did it say he was?

[00:59:41] Oh,

[00:59:42] it's a 73.

[00:59:43] I think.

[00:59:44] Yeah.

[00:59:45] He's,

[00:59:46] he's older.

[00:59:47] Yeah.

[00:59:47] For whatever.

[00:59:48] He probably broke a hip.

[00:59:49] And then the,

[00:59:49] the Rangers had to rescue him.

[00:59:50] Dawson had to go down there.

[00:59:52] So he was seven,

[00:59:53] 72 years old.

[00:59:55] Yeah.

[00:59:56] So I guess that's what I'll be doing in 10 years from now.

[00:59:58] I'll be hanging out at Fonz leap and tree climbing,

[01:00:03] tree climbing,

[01:00:04] and then free falling.

[01:00:05] Like Tom said,

[01:00:06] we should.

[01:00:07] Yeah.

[01:00:08] I get that.

[01:00:09] Yeah.

[01:00:09] It looks fun.

[01:00:10] You know,

[01:00:11] and that brings,

[01:00:12] you know,

[01:00:12] the big question as we had in the previous episode or the episode before that above the overtime with the Rangers,

[01:00:21] who the hell is going to monitor this shit?

[01:00:24] Yeah.

[01:00:25] Right.

[01:00:26] Like,

[01:00:26] well,

[01:00:27] yeah,

[01:00:28] you know,

[01:00:28] and it's,

[01:00:29] I don't know how cool is that.

[01:00:30] Every time you go out in the woods to a place like this,

[01:00:32] there's going to be what a DEC Ranger walking around.

[01:00:36] No hooting and hollering.

[01:00:37] Yeah.

[01:00:38] There's,

[01:00:39] you know,

[01:00:39] this is quiet hours at Fonz leap.

[01:00:42] It's quiet hours,

[01:00:43] 24 hours a day.

[01:00:44] Yeah.

[01:00:45] I know it's a breathtaking view from the top of Wittenberg,

[01:00:48] but this is the,

[01:00:49] the,

[01:00:49] you know,

[01:00:51] so please be quiet.

[01:00:54] I mean,

[01:00:55] and you know,

[01:00:56] I've,

[01:00:56] I have been within,

[01:00:58] I,

[01:00:59] I'm one of those,

[01:01:00] I wouldn't say newcomers,

[01:01:01] but I've been hiking in the Catskills exclusively since 2015.

[01:01:05] And,

[01:01:06] you know,

[01:01:07] I haven't gone to these,

[01:01:08] I haven't done crazy shit like this.

[01:01:10] I haven't done anything.

[01:01:11] I've hiked.

[01:01:12] I've enjoyed,

[01:01:13] I have,

[01:01:14] you know,

[01:01:15] maybe jumped off a cliffs and black clove and stuff like that into some awesome things.

[01:01:21] But I have never gone to the area where people will be cheering me on to jump off of a fricking tree branch at 72 years old.

[01:01:29] You know,

[01:01:31] I stayed in the secluded areas that have kept me away from people.

[01:01:35] But,

[01:01:36] you know,

[01:01:36] this says,

[01:01:37] as I,

[01:01:37] I cannot believe what the Rangers have to deal with when they see this.

[01:01:43] Uh,

[01:01:44] is it monstrosity?

[01:01:45] Is that the word?

[01:01:46] Like they like,

[01:01:47] like,

[01:01:48] come on.

[01:01:48] Stop.

[01:01:49] It's a carnival.

[01:01:50] Yeah.

[01:01:52] It's,

[01:01:52] it sucks.

[01:01:53] And I,

[01:01:53] I feel so sorry for them.

[01:01:55] You know,

[01:01:56] maybe hopefully these people treat the Rangers with respect and,

[01:01:59] and learn,

[01:02:00] but it doesn't seem,

[01:02:01] it seems like anybody,

[01:02:02] they,

[01:02:03] the,

[01:02:03] the one person that,

[01:02:05] that treats them with respect.

[01:02:06] There's five other people that are just like,

[01:02:08] screw you.

[01:02:08] I'm going to do what I want.

[01:02:09] This is public land.

[01:02:10] And then do a backflip,

[01:02:12] gets injured and almost dies.

[01:02:14] So this is where I renew one of my suggestions.

[01:02:18] And that is,

[01:02:19] you know,

[01:02:20] where Bel Air beaches.

[01:02:21] Yeah.

[01:02:23] Awesome spot in Pine Hill.

[01:02:24] Well,

[01:02:24] right outside of Pine Hill.

[01:02:25] Yeah.

[01:02:25] Yeah.

[01:02:26] So why can't they at Bel Air beach create a Fonz leap?

[01:02:32] People climb up.

[01:02:33] It's like a make believe cliff.

[01:02:36] Maybe have different cliff levels.

[01:02:37] And you can have as big of an audience as you want.

[01:02:41] Put bleachers in for people have barbecue pits,

[01:02:45] you name it.

[01:02:46] You can build it up any way you want.

[01:02:48] And you can even put charging stations in for people to charge up their

[01:02:52] phones and wifi.

[01:02:53] Other cars.

[01:02:54] Yeah.

[01:02:55] People can let leap,

[01:02:56] do backflips,

[01:02:57] climb trees,

[01:02:58] jump off of trees,

[01:03:00] do whatever.

[01:03:02] And why don't they have something that to like that,

[01:03:05] to draw away from these other areas so they can stay more natural and less

[01:03:12] disturbed than with,

[01:03:14] you know,

[01:03:15] building a parking lot in,

[01:03:16] uh,

[01:03:17] near Pica Moose in the blue hole.

[01:03:18] Yeah.

[01:03:19] What,

[01:03:20] and they're going to put,

[01:03:20] what are they going to do?

[01:03:21] Put dumpsters in there because of all the garbage.

[01:03:24] You can't,

[01:03:24] you can't just put cans there.

[01:03:26] The bears are going to get to them.

[01:03:27] And then what do you do with the bears?

[01:03:28] The bears are going to get domesticated.

[01:03:30] Yeah.

[01:03:31] Then you're going to have to euthanize them because they're going to get,

[01:03:35] you know,

[01:03:36] too aggressive with people because people are going to start feeding them so

[01:03:39] they can take pitch.

[01:03:40] I mean,

[01:03:40] it's just going to,

[01:03:41] you know,

[01:03:42] where would it stop?

[01:03:43] But if you do all this at Bel Air beach,

[01:03:47] you,

[01:03:48] you have it in a very accessible area can be fenced in to keep the bears

[01:03:52] away,

[01:03:53] you know?

[01:03:54] Um,

[01:03:55] and people can do whatever crazy stuff they want.

[01:03:57] It's kind of like a half,

[01:03:59] half wilderness,

[01:04:00] half water park.

[01:04:02] Yeah.

[01:04:02] What about like multiple areas?

[01:04:04] You know,

[01:04:04] I know,

[01:04:05] I know we're very,

[01:04:06] you know,

[01:04:07] I,

[01:04:07] I love Colgate Lake,

[01:04:10] but you know,

[01:04:11] that is another place that,

[01:04:12] that,

[01:04:13] that something could be kind of advertised.

[01:04:15] I mean,

[01:04:16] the last time I went there was absolutely insane because it was hot,

[01:04:19] but I mean,

[01:04:21] that is a very,

[01:04:22] very special place because,

[01:04:25] you know,

[01:04:25] where is it located in between the blackhead range and of course,

[01:04:28] the North South Lake region,

[01:04:29] but it has been so domesticated within the past five years that,

[01:04:34] you know,

[01:04:35] why not,

[01:04:35] why not build a platform on there to be like,

[01:04:38] Hey,

[01:04:38] have your 65 foot leap,

[01:04:41] 45 foot leap,

[01:04:42] you know,

[01:04:43] 15 foot leap.

[01:04:44] So this goes back to the concept.

[01:04:47] If you build it,

[01:04:48] they will come.

[01:04:49] Right.

[01:04:50] And if you advertise it,

[01:04:51] yeah,

[01:04:52] they will come.

[01:04:52] Promote it,

[01:04:53] give people,

[01:04:54] you know,

[01:04:54] make it a challenge like they do with the fire towers.

[01:04:57] Give them a sticker,

[01:04:58] a patch,

[01:04:58] a decal or whatever.

[01:05:01] And.

[01:05:01] Fucking fire towers.

[01:05:02] Yeah.

[01:05:03] You'll start to take some of the,

[01:05:04] the pressure.

[01:05:05] Presumably you'll start to take some of the pressure off of Catterskill Falls,

[01:05:08] Fawns leap,

[01:05:11] Peek-a-Moose blue hole.

[01:05:13] And,

[01:05:13] and let those areas be used in more of a sustainable,

[01:05:17] manageable way.

[01:05:18] So this,

[01:05:19] this is why we're,

[01:05:20] we're going to have a write in campaign.

[01:05:22] Stosh for DEC commissioner.

[01:05:26] Wouldn't that be great?

[01:05:27] Yeah.

[01:05:28] I don't know.

[01:05:29] Your modesty,

[01:05:30] your modesty is not reeling this in.

[01:05:32] You're like all stoked up.

[01:05:34] We're going to do a writing campaign.

[01:05:35] We're going to petition the governor.

[01:05:38] With the,

[01:05:39] with ballots to get you elected DEC commissioner.

[01:05:44] And you can proclaim,

[01:05:44] you can proclaim things.

[01:05:46] Right.

[01:05:47] I,

[01:05:47] I proclaim today as a national mountain lion day.

[01:05:54] I was speaking of what we got to talk about that later.

[01:05:57] Would you,

[01:05:58] would you be,

[01:05:58] uh,

[01:06:00] to,

[01:06:00] to talk about your somewhat recon experience with outlines?

[01:06:05] Uh,

[01:06:05] no,

[01:06:05] what we need to do is let's,

[01:06:07] let's organize that stuff in a way.

[01:06:08] And I think we can put together a whole show or a show or half a show with it.

[01:06:14] Okay.

[01:06:14] We'll still,

[01:06:14] we'll start posting some of it,

[01:06:16] debate people with what we've got our hands on and we'll do some follow up.

[01:06:20] What you've got.

[01:06:20] I didn't do anything of this.

[01:06:21] This is all you,

[01:06:22] man.

[01:06:23] Yeah.

[01:06:23] Well,

[01:06:23] we're,

[01:06:24] we're hot on the trail.

[01:06:25] Yeah.

[01:06:26] Did you read some of those emails?

[01:06:28] They were absolutely fantastic.

[01:06:30] Yeah.

[01:06:30] I didn't send you all this stuff.

[01:06:32] I have to send you all this stuff.

[01:06:33] Sent me 23 pages of it.

[01:06:35] Uh,

[01:06:35] well,

[01:06:35] there's more,

[01:06:36] there's more.

[01:06:38] That was fantastic.

[01:06:40] 23 awesome pages.

[01:06:41] Let me just say,

[01:06:42] all right,

[01:06:42] moving on.

[01:06:43] Uh,

[01:06:44] so we're talking about the classical clove area.

[01:06:46] Once again,

[01:06:47] we have the visitor use management project,

[01:06:50] which,

[01:06:51] uh,

[01:06:51] has a little updates,

[01:06:52] uh,

[01:06:52] a time last video showing conditions of the cadresco falls in the clove area.

[01:06:57] During a typically busy summer weekend in August 23 has been posted to project website.

[01:07:03] Now this wasn't Tad's video of people fighting.

[01:07:05] This was,

[01:07:06] uh,

[01:07:07] something else.

[01:07:08] Members of the public are encouraged to continue checking the project website for updates and provide feedback and comments and questions to the planning team.

[01:07:17] I can't get over the fact that you witnessed people fighting over parking or trying to get out.

[01:07:24] That was good.

[01:07:25] Yeah.

[01:07:25] My only time there.

[01:07:27] Oh God.

[01:07:28] Scott road is something else,

[01:07:30] isn't it?

[01:07:30] Yeah.

[01:07:30] Wow.

[01:07:31] You got to park in the front or you don't park at all.

[01:07:35] How would I know?

[01:07:36] I was a novice at this.

[01:07:37] I was so naive.

[01:07:38] I thought,

[01:07:38] Oh,

[01:07:38] I can park right here.

[01:07:40] Not.

[01:07:40] And then I came,

[01:07:41] I came back like an hour and a half or two later,

[01:07:44] you know,

[01:07:44] hiking through,

[01:07:44] and then I was going to knock off some trails in the lower section and it wasn't bad.

[01:07:49] And then when I came back,

[01:07:49] it was just out of control.

[01:07:51] And what we're talking about folks is that video stash posted a few weeks ago of,

[01:07:59] and it wasn't the hottest and most contentious part of the shoving and yelling match,

[01:08:05] but it was,

[01:08:08] you know,

[01:08:09] what was leading up to the really hot and heated moment in the shot road parking area.

[01:08:16] What was your route that day?

[01:08:18] Oh,

[01:08:18] well,

[01:08:19] I went up to what was it?

[01:08:20] Um,

[01:08:21] North mountain right from the road.

[01:08:22] I bushwhacked up there.

[01:08:23] It was very cool.

[01:08:24] Uh,

[01:08:24] Mike Kudish would like it and I'm sure he's done it a couple of times probably.

[01:08:28] And then I,

[01:08:29] I took the trail back.

[01:08:31] Um,

[01:08:31] I forget the name of the one trail up there that I had to knock off,

[01:08:34] but I,

[01:08:35] I knocked it off,

[01:08:36] went through shot road,

[01:08:37] took care of some of those lower ones down between the mountain house and elsewhere.

[01:08:42] And then I came back to my car and there was the big incident there.

[01:08:46] I,

[01:08:46] I find that,

[01:08:47] you know,

[01:08:47] even,

[01:08:48] even with the amount of people I find that area still fascinating.

[01:08:52] Uh,

[01:08:53] when you go from Scott road to up to North mountain,

[01:08:56] it's an absolute amazing trail because everybody wants to take the shorter route,

[01:09:00] go to Mary's Glen and stuff like that.

[01:09:02] So what is truly fascinating in my opinion of that area is number one,

[01:09:08] South mountain.

[01:09:09] Yeah.

[01:09:10] Cause it's all cobbles that are now cemented in,

[01:09:16] um,

[01:09:17] a sedimentary rock.

[01:09:19] I don't know what Danny Davis would call it or,

[01:09:21] uh,

[01:09:22] Mr.

[01:09:23] Titus would call it,

[01:09:24] but it's really unusual.

[01:09:25] The,

[01:09:26] the magnitude of it that you find in the Catskills and your Titus's writings,

[01:09:31] it's because it's an old river bed is what it is.

[01:09:35] And it's very cool.

[01:09:36] And it's very,

[01:09:36] for me,

[01:09:37] it's very unique and unusual to see that in the higher parts of the Catskills.

[01:09:43] But where this is,

[01:09:44] it's Titus explains why it is where it is.

[01:09:47] And,

[01:09:47] um,

[01:09:47] so that's very cool.

[01:09:49] Then right behind it are all those pitch pines.

[01:09:53] Oh yeah.

[01:09:54] Beautiful.

[01:09:54] Right on sunset rock.

[01:09:56] Yeah.

[01:09:56] So what,

[01:09:57] you know,

[01:09:57] that's so uncommon in the Catskills and it's presumably because of the lack of soil depth

[01:10:03] right there on the edge of the escarpment,

[01:10:05] um,

[01:10:06] that you have the pitch pines growing there.

[01:10:08] So that's all very interesting and unique over there.

[01:10:12] And then the other thing,

[01:10:14] which my last time over there,

[01:10:15] which I found is,

[01:10:17] is,

[01:10:18] uh,

[01:10:18] just so many leftover foundations and stone structures from when it was a resort.

[01:10:28] Right to,

[01:10:29] right to when you,

[01:10:30] I found these ponds with huge cisterns that presumably were the water source for the mountain house.

[01:10:41] Yeah.

[01:10:41] Really cool.

[01:10:42] I'm telling you,

[01:10:43] you know,

[01:10:43] maybe 30,

[01:10:44] 40 feet across,

[01:10:45] 30,

[01:10:46] 40 feet deep tree growing in the center of it.

[01:10:50] Like it was a planter.

[01:10:51] Wow.

[01:10:52] Very unusual.

[01:10:53] So yeah,

[01:10:53] there's,

[01:10:54] once you start exploring around there,

[01:10:55] there's a lot of interesting stuff.

[01:10:57] Um,

[01:10:58] but then there's also just a lot of foot traffic through there.

[01:11:00] Yeah,

[01:11:01] it sucks.

[01:11:01] But then,

[01:11:02] you know,

[01:11:02] you get those times when you're all alone and you're walking below sunset rock.

[01:11:08] And like you said,

[01:11:09] you see that cobblestone kind of concrete stuff.

[01:11:12] And you sit there and look up and you're just like,

[01:11:15] wow,

[01:11:16] what is this?

[01:11:16] You,

[01:11:17] you touch it,

[01:11:17] you feel it.

[01:11:18] You're just like,

[01:11:18] this is very unusual for the Catskills.

[01:11:21] Like you just experienced right on sunset rock with the pitch pines.

[01:11:25] And you're just like,

[01:11:27] wow.

[01:11:27] Like where else do you get pitch pines besides over on poets ledge?

[01:11:31] Uh,

[01:11:32] and you got a bushwhack to that pitch pines,

[01:11:35] maybe lower part of,

[01:11:36] uh,

[01:11:36] you know,

[01:11:37] where we have been on,

[01:11:38] on South mountain,

[01:11:39] North mountain,

[01:11:40] uh,

[01:11:41] that lower part area.

[01:11:42] Uh,

[01:11:43] yeah.

[01:11:43] Limited,

[01:11:43] limited though,

[01:11:44] to the escarpment area.

[01:11:46] And it's just,

[01:11:47] it's a phenomenal place.

[01:11:48] But once again,

[01:11:49] on the weekends,

[01:11:51] you're not going to get that solitude and that peace and enjoyment that you're going to get,

[01:11:55] you know,

[01:11:56] during a Tuesday or Sunday or Wednesday that,

[01:11:59] you know,

[01:11:59] I get to hike.

[01:12:00] Yeah.

[01:12:01] That's,

[01:12:01] that's why that area would be fun in the winter with the pair of,

[01:12:04] um,

[01:12:04] cross country skis or back country skis.

[01:12:07] Yeah.

[01:12:07] That would be fantastic.

[01:12:09] Just to cruise around covers some,

[01:12:11] some miles.

[01:12:13] See what's there to be seen.

[01:12:14] So I will,

[01:12:15] uh,

[01:12:16] uh,

[01:12:16] I will post that.

[01:12:18] Did you actually watch that?

[01:12:19] Uh,

[01:12:20] that,

[01:12:21] uh,

[01:12:22] time lapse?

[01:12:23] No,

[01:12:23] I didn't.

[01:12:24] Neither did I,

[01:12:25] you know,

[01:12:25] I gotta admit,

[01:12:26] I'm going to be,

[01:12:27] I'm very honest in this podcast.

[01:12:29] I have not,

[01:12:31] uh,

[01:12:33] watch that.

[01:12:34] So,

[01:12:34] so while we're talking about time lapse,

[01:12:36] have you ever done that on Google earth?

[01:12:38] What do you mean?

[01:12:39] Google earth has a time lapse feature.

[01:12:42] Well,

[01:12:42] I,

[01:12:43] I mean,

[01:12:43] I remember looking on Google earth.

[01:12:45] The funny thing is,

[01:12:46] this is on that sunset rock or that area.

[01:12:48] It showed a deep hole that everybody was questioning.

[01:12:51] That was a black abyss.

[01:12:53] Do you remember that?

[01:12:55] I don't remember what people were questioning,

[01:12:57] but I,

[01:12:57] but go ahead.

[01:12:58] Sorry.

[01:12:58] Yeah.

[01:12:59] I,

[01:12:59] on Google earth,

[01:13:00] they have a time lapse feature where,

[01:13:03] yeah,

[01:13:04] it's like,

[01:13:04] I think it goes back 40 years,

[01:13:06] maybe longer in some places.

[01:13:08] That would be fun.

[01:13:09] That's pretty interesting.

[01:13:10] You can check out around your house or,

[01:13:12] you know,

[01:13:13] anywhere there's Google earth.

[01:13:15] You can go there and see how it's developed over the past half century or even longer.

[01:13:22] Wow.

[01:13:23] Amazing.

[01:13:23] We'll have to see the,

[01:13:25] the craziness of the Catskills within the last,

[01:13:27] uh,

[01:13:28] 40 years.

[01:13:29] So,

[01:13:30] uh,

[01:13:30] so we're on the area.

[01:13:31] So we might as well mention the town of Hunter has established parking restrictions on Route 23A and Platt Clove Road.

[01:13:38] Additionally,

[01:13:39] parking is prohibited.

[01:13:40] All vehicle pull-offs on 23A and Catterstice Clove from May and October.

[01:13:45] Parking only at designated DEC parking lots and come prepared with backup options and to move on if the area's parking is full.

[01:13:54] Any illegal park vehicle will be ticketed and towed to the town of Hunter Town Hall Import Lounge,

[01:13:59] which is 5742 New York 23A and Tannersville.

[01:14:03] We always drive by that if you go downtown to the,

[01:14:05] uh,

[01:14:05] to Tannersville area.

[01:14:08] DEC recommends that visitors access Catterstice Cove Falls by parking at the Laura House Road or Scutt Road or the South Park Lake parking areas.

[01:14:16] Uh,

[01:14:16] if you get there past nine o'clock,

[01:14:18] don't expect to park at the Laura House Road or the Scutt Road.

[01:14:21] They will all be full.

[01:14:22] Uh,

[01:14:22] so go to the South Park.

[01:14:23] You gotta pay $10,

[01:14:24] which is okay.

[01:14:25] Uh,

[01:14:26] visit DEC website for directions and the use to the,

[01:14:29] uh,

[01:14:29] parking areas.

[01:14:30] So Tad,

[01:14:30] you kind of got a tip for this area,

[01:14:32] don't you?

[01:14:33] Yeah.

[01:14:33] In the summer,

[01:14:35] I think it's from Memorial Day to Labor Day,

[01:14:38] $5.

[01:14:39] You get to ride the trolley and it travels that entire corridor where all those parking restrictions are.

[01:14:46] So,

[01:14:47] you,

[01:14:48] you,

[01:14:48] you can park someplace in Tannersville or down in Palinville and take the trolley to where you're going to start the hike or,

[01:14:56] uh,

[01:14:57] finish at a trolley stop and get a ride back to your car.

[01:15:00] So,

[01:15:01] it makes the area more accessible,

[01:15:03] more user friendly and minimizes the impact on the environment.

[01:15:10] A lot of good things there.

[01:15:12] And like the Catterskill trolley starts at like the Catterskill mountain house and scores like that and stuff.

[01:15:19] So,

[01:15:19] well,

[01:15:19] you think of a T.

[01:15:20] So it starts,

[01:15:22] um,

[01:15:22] I think at the boathouse in Tannersville,

[01:15:25] goes into Tannersville,

[01:15:28] uh,

[01:15:28] down to Haynes Falls,

[01:15:29] out to North South Lake,

[01:15:32] then back down to 23A,

[01:15:35] down to,

[01:15:35] uh,

[01:15:36] Palinville to the,

[01:15:38] uh,

[01:15:39] wine store where it,

[01:15:41] where it turns around.

[01:15:42] I think that's a very interesting place for it to stop.

[01:15:47] And then,

[01:15:48] and then you can hop back on the trolley,

[01:15:50] you know,

[01:15:51] after you fill your flask with rum or wine and,

[01:15:55] you know,

[01:15:55] take it back up the,

[01:15:57] the road,

[01:15:58] stop at any one of those stops that used to be parking areas and do your thing.

[01:16:03] Yeah.

[01:16:04] I think it's five,

[01:16:05] five dollars for one way and maybe $10 for the entire day.

[01:16:10] And you can do it all online as well.

[01:16:12] You can do it for your phone purchase tickets and stuff like that.

[01:16:15] Uh,

[01:16:15] just hop on board.

[01:16:17] If you're getting out past,

[01:16:18] you know,

[01:16:18] nine o'clock and stuff like that,

[01:16:20] I would advise you to do the trolley or,

[01:16:23] or,

[01:16:24] uh,

[01:16:25] people like me and Ted would just avoid the area totally,

[01:16:28] unless you have some all trails challenges that you need to finish in the

[01:16:31] area and you got to do it.

[01:16:34] You got to do it.

[01:16:35] You got to do it.

[01:16:36] Yeah.

[01:16:37] So,

[01:16:37] uh,

[01:16:38] once again,

[01:16:41] the craziness that has happened to the Catskills and to the areas over the,

[01:16:45] the past,

[01:16:46] uh,

[01:16:47] five to 10 years has been astronomical.

[01:16:50] So,

[01:16:51] so let's get into the last topic of the night after an hour and 25 minutes.

[01:16:57] Wow.

[01:16:57] We're 12 minutes over schedule or like an hour and 12 minutes over schedule.

[01:17:01] Usually this is be a 17 minute podcast.

[01:17:04] Well,

[01:17:05] we don't have a guest.

[01:17:06] We have to entertain one another tonight.

[01:17:08] We have,

[01:17:08] we have no outside entertainment.

[01:17:10] So we're trying to live it up.

[01:17:12] I see you're like,

[01:17:13] what are you doing?

[01:17:14] Rum shots over there?

[01:17:16] no.

[01:17:16] Uh,

[01:17:16] we'll talk about this later.

[01:17:17] It's Vermont stuff.

[01:17:19] I,

[01:17:20] I,

[01:17:20] I should be doing it and it's only eight 30.

[01:17:22] So,

[01:17:23] so,

[01:17:23] so you brought this up to me and this was,

[01:17:27] uh,

[01:17:27] you know,

[01:17:28] back in,

[01:17:28] in September.

[01:17:30] Well,

[01:17:31] you know,

[01:17:31] it's,

[01:17:31] it's,

[01:17:32] it's October 1st.

[01:17:33] Jesus.

[01:17:33] It's not that long ago.

[01:17:34] Yeah.

[01:17:35] So a person was lost month in the North Cascades without food or shelter.

[01:17:42] Uh,

[01:17:42] hiker gives details on probable rescue.

[01:17:45] So Robert shock recounts his 30 day disappearance and how he survived.

[01:17:50] Now this guy looks like he,

[01:17:52] uh,

[01:17:52] uh,

[01:17:52] sang on train a couple of times.

[01:17:55] So 39 year old wanderer with,

[01:17:57] uh,

[01:17:57] out of permanent address set off for a day run in the cascade North Cascades

[01:18:02] and Washington at the end of July with minimal supplies and his dog and never

[01:18:07] returned to the trailhead.

[01:18:08] So family members and first responders were alerted to his disappearance in

[01:18:12] early August after extensive searches,

[01:18:15] remote mountainous areas,

[01:18:16] including helicopter.

[01:18:17] They believed he would not be found alive,

[01:18:21] but on August 30th,

[01:18:22] young crew members of the Pacific Northwest trail association,

[01:18:26] to cover shock,

[01:18:27] dangerously emancipated and unable to move,

[01:18:30] but still alive,

[01:18:31] lying by the Rocky bank of the chili wall.

[01:18:34] So he has kind of hanged the park for a long time.

[01:18:36] And then I,

[01:18:39] and he bought it in the North Cascades without food or shelter recounted his ordeals

[01:18:43] in the news and basically said that he traveled a long time in this area is one of his favorite

[01:18:51] places in the world and he conceded he may not be returning there ever again anytime soon it has now

[01:18:57] become his most unfavorite place in the world so he was in a mood he wanted to piece together a

[01:19:03] big loop possibly by the way of copper ridge which was studied views of the north cascade range

[01:19:08] and if anybody has seen uh any parts of the cascades up in washington it is absolutely

[01:19:14] mind-blowing and i've just seen this from instagram and facebook and i want to go up there like any

[01:19:19] other person would so uh he once lived in mount vernon in the mount baker area in the past so he

[01:19:26] knows the area and around seven miles down the chile rewreck river shock used a table card to

[01:19:33] spend above the river to pull himself up the east bank where he was disoriented by the changed scenery

[01:19:38] so the bear creek fire of 2021 uh and 2022 have turned a long-term closure of the area which

[01:19:46] disoriented them and burned reshaped the terrain now he said he observed the trail sign uh but he wasn't

[01:19:53] really particular with the trail so he had no service no signal but he went on he decided that

[01:20:00] he was on a mission to discover there to reach canada and bring back around and despite the

[01:20:05] treacherous travel at one point he trampled down the river to drink water and got his shoes wrecked wet

[01:20:11] now he removed them to dry out and he said the river washed them away wow this must have been a

[01:20:19] pretty crazy river barefoot he counted numerous obstacles to pack uh pass but he continued on his

[01:20:25] mind persisted to go north despite my inner feet and he said it was stupid immature and amateur to keep

[01:20:32] going forward when he still had the energy to get back so don't know what what happened there but

[01:20:38] early on he told his dog to head home yeah because your freaking dog knows where to go home when you're

[01:20:45] like 50 60 miles out from your house uh yeah yeah well god yeah i can't say anything you forget that he took

[01:20:56] the cable car to get across the river so his dog his dog could not get back yeah let me purchase a ticket

[01:21:05] yeah so you know it's freddie the name of the dog freddie head home and freddie apparently left robert

[01:21:15] wherever he was on the trail or off the trail and did head away but he had no way of getting across the

[01:21:20] river so they found him days later apparently but did not find robert for the rest of the month

[01:21:27] yeah so um when do you want to hear some of my interview you're done reading through this you got

[01:21:32] more to read through this hold on so uh he discovered adventure and turned into a survival

[01:21:39] attempt uh he had a puncture wound in his big toe and it was growing increasingly disoriented hungry

[01:21:45] he had impacted any supplies and he was scattered with brushes clinging to the hillside only a few

[01:21:51] sour berries uh he ate one large mushroom knowing that it's a risky decision and said the nourishment

[01:21:58] gave him energy to turn south and attempt to retrace now i'm guessing this was some sort of mushroom

[01:22:03] that brought him to like a fish concert and he's like fly i mean this was eagles but he's like fly

[01:22:08] like an eagle and he went over the freaking everything i'm just somehow uh yeah he said he saw the same

[01:22:17] helicopter twice so probably that was the mushroom still active just it's like oh that's the same

[01:22:23] helicopter bro cool man uh chainsaw buzz in the distance uh he thought he was in the north cascades

[01:22:31] but he also thought he said was in north carolina at the same time search went on again for over 30

[01:22:38] days storm rolled in drenched the area with ice amazed uh he was coherent with the experience he said uh

[01:22:46] until the final hours of his ordeal by that time he thought he had lost control of his bowels and he

[01:22:51] shucked off his last remaining piece of clothing so he grew even colder than before and believed to be he

[01:22:57] would die so uh he was finally found by the pacific northwest trail association a non-profit program

[01:23:04] that helps maintain the manage pacific northwest scenic trail and they were turning to cramp camp

[01:23:11] after a strenuous 10 after day of holy material re-established trailing hold handheld tools so uh they

[01:23:18] found him and amazingly they they got him out and a huge rescue was pursued from that he had no strength

[01:23:26] left but they were able to connect or and it would have been over for him so uh he also said that the

[01:23:34] one cool thing that he said to perceive the crew as a pack of wolves creeping down from the river rocks

[01:23:39] toward him so now this mushroom is probably still kicking in and it's still going strong so this one

[01:23:45] must have been a one hell of a mushroom you know i don't know i i was in the 70s and 80s at that time

[01:23:52] before i could take mushrooms so tad you might have a a little experience in this mushroom times well

[01:23:59] what i will say first of all let's just uh kudos to the trail crew workers who apparently were uh trained

[01:24:09] in wilderness first aid so that came into came in handy at the time he was found and rescued robert had

[01:24:19] lost 50 pounds jesus okay so now what stosh isn't reporting which we remember from last week

[01:24:28] those of you who are faithful listeners that robert's car was first discovered with its windows

[01:24:39] down down yep and his wallet on the dash and stosh and i last week we couldn't figure that out

[01:24:45] i had wondered uh after we recorded last week maybe that robert had set out just to do a quick walk

[01:24:52] with his dog and his dog got away and he chased after him but apparently that's not what happened he

[01:24:58] did set out with the day pack for uh what he describes as turning into a big loop hike and at one point in

[01:25:07] the story it talks about he sees a sign that the international border border the border with canada

[01:25:13] is less than 20 miles away so he decides to head for the border

[01:25:20] and and gets disorientated has some uh hard block yada yada yada and then here at the end of the story

[01:25:31] the reporter inserts this quote from robert which i think is very uh telling so let's uh turn up the

[01:25:40] volume and listen closely as i read what robert told the reporter many times i've placed myself in

[01:25:50] situations where i'd question if i ever make it back and always did usually through the aid of another

[01:26:00] who would come along and save me stosh did i read that correctly yeah that's i mean this is what he says

[01:26:07] he goes out into the woods into wherever and puts himself into these situations where he wonders

[01:26:14] if he'd make it back and usually he does through the aid of another right he goes on to say i had a

[01:26:22] cocky attitude about it this time was different i knew based on where i was that the likelihood of

[01:26:31] help was almost zero i was ready to die out there isn't that crazy this is this apparently this guy

[01:26:43] i i don't know much or i really don't know anything about his psychological makeup but here he is

[01:26:48] kind of a nomadic person with no home address admitting that he does this many times putting

[01:26:56] himself in situations where he wonders if he would make it back and does through does so with the

[01:27:02] help of others yeah and his mother said that he's always been a carefree kind and necessarily does not

[01:27:10] think about the consequences that he does and and hence and hence he popped the entire mushroom

[01:27:15] yeah right it wasn't like a one bite it was like several bites yeah so that's not surprising that he

[01:27:22] downed the mushroom um because this guy's adverse to risk he's so he's from ohio that that that

[01:27:30] that's fucking beyond my so right there there you go yeah so so as i after i read this story a couple

[01:27:38] times the following came to mind that our friend robert and his dog freddie who seemingly get by on

[01:27:49] life on very low economic resources he's probably sitting on one hell of a story that's gonna make

[01:27:57] him millions on netflix maybe be part of like a weekly series on netflix or something like this his

[01:28:04] adventures going to this place in that place whether it be for a week two weeks or a month getting

[01:28:10] rescued people are going to turn in to um to see what's going kind of like what was that the uh the

[01:28:17] truman show remember yeah right that's what's going to happen to this guy yeah he's just gonna

[01:28:24] keep is he gonna keep doing this shit all the time well apparently so that's what that's what he reports

[01:28:29] that he does this is you said you read read what his mother said but he says many times i placed myself

[01:28:35] in situations where i'd question if i ever would make it back and always did usually through the

[01:28:42] aid of another wow right so here he is he's telling these people though i'm never going back here

[01:28:47] what do you mean buddy it sounds like you do this all the time this is how you this is your thrill

[01:28:51] yeah right it's just really messed up it's crazy putting you know once again people like this is

[01:29:00] where we have up in new hampshire the negligence kind of time the hike safe card and stuff like that

[01:29:06] where they charge you for shit let's hope they do that over in washington where you know i on

[01:29:12] thousands like thousands of hours of people you know helicopter rescues stuff like that

[01:29:17] why don't we just why don't we just go in the other direction with this and why don't we just instead

[01:29:22] of um the hike safe card and hiker safety and wilderness training why don't we just have like

[01:29:29] ultra patches or i did something really stupid and spent 10 days 10 days out in the wilderness

[01:29:36] and lift off of a mushroom and some uh you know peyote right and then all these pct and appalachian

[01:29:45] trail and cdt people will be like oh damn man yeah you're really kicking it yeah i'm going for the 25

[01:29:52] day patch i'm gonna pick and beat you man off of one mushroom yeah canada or bust yeah this is i just

[01:30:00] you know i mean being a person that you know doesn't have any children and stuff why the hell

[01:30:06] would you take your dog on this and then be like hey go home buddy this isn't a goddamn disney freaking

[01:30:13] story yeah i don't know i don't know robert and i don't want it to sound like i'm making fun of him

[01:30:20] but i just find the story very interesting and the fact that he apparently does this all the time

[01:30:28] and he's aware of it and and his mom tells the stories yeah and and here he does it again

[01:30:33] you know we we could ask a psychologist about him but just on the other hand it's like

[01:30:39] it's this is crazy crazy yeah and i gotta admit the uh there's a picture of him

[01:30:46] like uh with the people attending him on the on one of the rivers so in that in that photo you think

[01:30:52] he's the guy without the shirt on absolutely the other guy's just like it looks like a trail runner

[01:30:57] that's done the trail 17 times yeah i think the guy without the shirt gave him the shirt to wear

[01:31:03] i think robert's the guy with the green hat and his back to the photos because it looks like he's got

[01:31:08] something over his legs there oh yeah you're right yeah the guy without a shirt i don't he's thin

[01:31:14] but it doesn't look like he's lost 50 pounds i don't know that guy looks like he's no look and

[01:31:20] look closely zoom in you'll see the the guy with the green hat right next to him yeah it says it on

[01:31:25] there wow no it's there's a big bong right next to him oh yeah that dude took it up before he went

[01:31:33] yeah crazy craziness wow okay the chili whack river all right so wow this is what shooting this shit

[01:31:40] happens if what goes on i'm hour and 40 minutes in uh so thank you to the monthly supporters darren

[01:31:46] white vicky furrer mike so totski jim c betsy a denise whites vanessa joseph jim c michael

[01:31:54] thank you guys very much for supporting the show really appreciate it also capture your love story

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[01:32:44] bound project analog wonders of the great outdoors so if you mentioned the podcast uh you could get

[01:32:51] your hikes through social media and stuff like that we'll chat about you in the show so pink pony

[01:32:55] uh once again tracy rankin did uh taconic treks that takes up south brace and brace mountains from

[01:33:01] quarry hill trail early morning change of plans and the morning started out damp and cloudy with rocks going up or

[01:33:07] slickery but were rewarded with its amazing cloud inversion uh sun started peeking out above brace

[01:33:14] overall weather was pretty freaking good a bit muggy and buggy down low but with a nice breeze up top

[01:33:20] no people were seeing at all which is always a good day bummed that they weren't given uh the

[01:33:25] paragliders up there but uh they she thinks they avoided her but i don't know what that means

[01:33:31] tad you're gonna have to elaborate minimal wildlife we saw a hell of a ton of red abs and one big toad

[01:33:38] thankfully no rattling surfers do you know this area i am not familiar with that area but it sounds like

[01:33:47] uh folks go paragliding off of that mountain and i know nearby where i am uh there's a launch spot

[01:33:58] for gliders and it's not uncommon to be driving down the road and to see somebody going overhead

[01:34:06] it's pretty cool i've actually sometimes i've given some of them rides up the mountain

[01:34:11] you're driving along that they're carrying their gear and uh it's it's a long hike for them so i'll

[01:34:19] pull over give them a ride nice so brace and brace mountains core hill trail so thank you tracy for

[01:34:26] doing that that is awesome uh it sounds like a fantastic spot maybe sometime i have the time

[01:34:31] i'll get over there ted you gotta get over there all right she said she had a post hike chai at

[01:34:38] irving farm coffee house in millerton new york you know what that is i know where millerton is it sounds

[01:34:44] expensive i know chai yeah i don't even make my own chai i don't even know what chai is i just know the

[01:34:53] sound i just know the the name of it yeah same thing can you get can you get it at stewart's

[01:34:59] i don't think so oh well then yeah yeah it's too fancy for me too fancy yeah right stewart's is the

[01:35:07] highest i go uh so also if you rate the show uh let me know if you want to rate the show i i could

[01:35:12] give you a link uh usually i think it's done an apple podcast or some other platform but uh if you if

[01:35:17] you ask me for a link uh rate the show it'd be pretty cool uh so tad what did you have to drink

[01:35:24] tonight or did you did you already drink it uh well i've i've been drinking um a sparkling orange

[01:35:34] seltzer so far and i was kind of waiting i thought we were going to crack open a brewski early on but you

[01:35:41] you never gave the signal so i've been just i've parked over to stage right ready to crack and pour

[01:35:47] if we're at that time it's a bell's amber ale i guess you can do that damn do you want to do that go

[01:35:56] right ahead yeah so sorry it's i'm sorry so late damn yeah well i was i was just joking when i said 90

[01:36:04] minutes i guess oh yeah we're okay what is 90 minutes like an hour and an hour and 30 oh

[01:36:12] shit yeah this is why we we we don't i don't know don't you guess and then the conversation because it

[01:36:21] goes way too long jesus can you get it open yeah i got it here i've just i had to call robert and ask

[01:36:28] him you know how he does it okay it smells good good i have to check it out what is it again it's a

[01:36:40] amber ale bell's amber ale it's very nice where's it from you know bells is i think from michigan

[01:36:48] cobstock michigan yeah they're a pretty popular brewery drink oh boy this is bad drink before july

[01:36:57] 2000 no 2024 oh i was gonna say jesus easy brother you might want to take a little rest on that one

[01:37:07] all right so tonight i'm having a down east strawberry cider absolutely amazing from uh

[01:37:16] from massachusetts love ciders so once again volunteer uh 3500 club catskill trail crew catskill

[01:37:27] mountains club visitors center jolly rovers trail crew bramley mountain fire tower uh if you need

[01:37:31] stickers come to send me a message or go to camp catskill so ted previous hikes do you want to talk

[01:37:39] about some oh yeah so stosh and i were uh stosh should let me know that he was available this sunday

[01:37:46] to hike with me and so we were trying to put together something relatively esoteric

[01:37:51] and adventuresome and as our plans were kind of firming up the next thing i know i got an email

[01:37:59] from mike kudish looking for folks to accompany him on a a bog excursion to go out and harvest a peat

[01:38:11] sample so we could analyze it under the microscope and and send it out to get carbon dated to determine how

[01:38:21] long ago that peat formed at the base of this bog so stosh was totally on board with doing it and we

[01:38:29] hooked up with doc kudish sunday morning at 10 a.m it's a good time by the way let me sleep in yeah out

[01:38:40] out i don't know if he wants us to give up the location um but we hooked up with uh doc kudish and

[01:38:46] two others who did either of them even have a clue that there was a podcast about the cat skills they

[01:38:53] had absolutely no clue that they were who we were yeah we need to get like a billboard

[01:38:58] that cat or skill falls like at the bottom of the second falls and we need to do some advertising

[01:39:04] because more people should know so at any rate um dr kudish who is 82 years old and as we've pointed

[01:39:11] out before and many times he's also been a guest on the show is the leading authority on all things

[01:39:18] cat skills basically whether it's uh logging uh forestry railroads tanning industry you name it he

[01:39:29] has extensively researched it and as i said he goes out into these bogs

[01:39:36] has to carry some equipment and he needs people to help them so we hooked up with them and did it so

[01:39:42] stosh why don't you tell our listeners the two or three that are still listening this late into the

[01:39:50] episode what what it was like hiking out uh out from the the road and into the woods and then the bog

[01:39:57] with dr kudish it was so much fun this the knowledge that pours out from this this man is just

[01:40:05] absolutely phenomenal um you know it's you're walking and all of a sudden he'll notice some

[01:40:12] little plant going from the ground and be like is that a maple is that a maple no no no that's that's uh

[01:40:19] something something something and i'm just like what that i'm trying to look at my next step so i don't

[01:40:24] fall but he's noticing everything he'll kneel down look at it take an observation walk on he'll

[01:40:32] remember what he did 25 years ago 35 years ago over in this area that uh he'll talk about it and then

[01:40:39] he'll go on to another topic and then come back and talk about it it's it's just amazing that the

[01:40:46] knowledge that pours out of this man that you are that that you are just blown away that that he can

[01:40:54] observe all this and remember it like he knows every freaking bog in the catskills it's number when he

[01:41:03] did that bob when he carbon dated that bog how old that bog is and uh the dates and people that were

[01:41:10] with him at that time yeah and he he'll also know what logging company logged that area where those logs

[01:41:20] were taken you know who owned the lumber yard um he gets into things like the charcoal industry which i

[01:41:27] never knew about in the catskills but he writes extensively on uh potash and charcoal making in the

[01:41:35] catskills who knew they did such a thing so hiking with him is a a genuine treat and i don't know i

[01:41:42] i haven't asked you this so let me get your impression but one of the things that is really

[01:41:47] strikes me about dr kudish who you know a is uh published several books lectures extensively on the

[01:41:56] catskills and is like the the probably the most revered authority on all things catskills but isn't

[01:42:05] he just such a modest and humble guy humble as fuck yeah i mean he's just so i mean i don't know

[01:42:11] what to say yeah he's just so laid back and cool um it's like hanging out with your grandfather yeah

[01:42:18] that hikes yeah yeah well it's not only that he hikes i mean when what'd you i mean when he wanted to

[01:42:24] go across that bog what did you think uh you know i was just like this is easy stuff for him

[01:42:31] like this is nothing he's ever dealt with and it's just so funny how he questioned everything that we

[01:42:37] did how'd you get through there i i pushed through it uh mike like there was nothing and he's just like

[01:42:42] well i gotta go around this i can't lift my foot and you know fine that's fine with me we'll we'll lead

[01:42:48] you around it or when there was a beaver dam sort of we thought it was a deaver dam or a muskrat dam

[01:42:54] he's just like how did you walk across that and you're sitting on the other side like yeah mike

[01:42:59] i'm over here buddy yeah well but he you know he's we've got these we have boots on water oh god yeah

[01:43:07] that are up to our knees one of the persons has like waders that are up to her thighs her you know hips

[01:43:15] and mike kudish has got like these ankle high waterproof proof boots that he probably got out of the

[01:43:22] sears roebuck catalog in 1965 right and and here he is 82 years old and we at times were going through

[01:43:33] like this thick brush that he would give us the latin name of right going through this thick brush that

[01:43:39] was almost impenetrable to get through not knowing what you were stepping on because you couldn't see it

[01:43:44] are you stepping on water like a a pile of some type of vegetation into the muck you had no idea uh what

[01:43:54] you were you know trudging through to get to the other side and here's kudish just like you know in

[01:43:59] his element making you know slowly his way slowly across this bog in these little boots you know yeah

[01:44:07] looking he always apologized for everything yeah yeah very humble very apologetic and you know at the

[01:44:15] end of the day we he wanted to see a year ago or two years ago he had taken a sample from this

[01:44:23] bog and he was uh had it carbon dated and as i recall it only went back somewhere between three and four

[01:44:29] thousand years indicating that the vegetation that initially initially started growing after the

[01:44:36] glacier the ice sheet melted and receded and things started growing there that that growth started

[01:44:44] between three and four thousand years ago and he felt that the growth was established there

[01:44:51] further back or older than that so we wanted to find a deeper sample and i don't think we did

[01:44:57] but he i think he was gung-ho at age 82 to make sure that after spending a few hours out there with

[01:45:06] him that we got to use his you know heat harvesting device and he showed us you know how to use it and

[01:45:15] the whole methodology and and and how he goes about taking those notes and stosh was the the man who had

[01:45:22] the the handle and he and dr kudish you know were putting it into the ground and turning it and pulling

[01:45:29] it out and stosh like almost hit him or knocked him over that was great yeah it was a lot of fun he was

[01:45:36] like observing me and i was just like listen i'm going to be lifting this up i don't want to hit you

[01:45:40] yeah and he was just like oh i'm not worried just like okay i'm like but uh you know boy once again he

[01:45:48] was he was always apologetic saying like like the the forecast you know we had this wrong of course with

[01:45:55] with our our podcast you know it was supposed to be an amazing weekend but sunday sunday turned out to

[01:45:59] be a horrible day with just clouds lingering and mist and rain and stuff it was yeah but if you're if

[01:46:06] you're going to spend the day in a wet bog which would you rather have hot and steamy or overcast foggy

[01:46:15] misty i mean that's bog weather yeah what would you rather have i'm so glad we didn't go for a good hike

[01:46:23] yeah yeah hanging out with him was totally fun um i might be hooking up with them again really soon

[01:46:29] uh i'm not sure if i can do it this next time with him but i'd like to get out at least once more this

[01:46:35] year with him yeah it was cool too you know once again he wanted us to get an actual experience of

[01:46:42] what he does and stuff like that and you know i have always tried to hook up with him but our schedules

[01:46:49] has i haven't coordinated proper appropriately so this time was a good time and he's just like well

[01:46:55] i'd really like you guys to get uh you know a source of what the tools do and stuff so let's go back to

[01:47:02] this area and we found an actual area where it was good you know i think of four feet down and and such i

[01:47:09] forgot you know how many meters like a meter and a half i think so yeah 90 centimeters sticks in that

[01:47:16] 90 centimeters yep and we got a sample and he you know his theory was that it was older than 4 000 years

[01:47:24] old and he thinks that this sample might date back more than 4 000 years so i was you know just taking

[01:47:32] this all in while he was talking about it you know we took samples of the the soil temperature we took

[01:47:39] samples of the water temperature the ph level in the water you know tad was helping him out with

[01:47:44] everything with the the temperatures and stuff this guy has uh bags of bread like bread bags that protect

[01:47:54] his his instruments and i'm like you know i could get you some ziploc bags that can do way more

[01:48:00] protection than that he's like no no no no no i like this this is my way and i was like yeah god

[01:48:06] damn this is like blows my mind this this guy is still like ripping it up yeah it's you you didn't get

[01:48:13] the the mike kudish when he pulls out his barometer he has this he has this barometer that's the size of a

[01:48:22] frisbee okay right we we all have them you know on our um i have a barometer watch now as an

[01:48:30] example uh but he yeah he has this barometer frisbee thing that on his way over to the hike he stops at a place

[01:48:39] he knows the elevation takes a barometric reader reading there so throughout the day he can base his

[01:48:47] elevations off of the barometric pressure so when you're out hiking with them throughout the day he

[01:48:53] pulls out the barometer he takes a an air pressure reading on his way home he stops at the same place

[01:48:59] he did at the beginning of the day to take a reading at the end of the day because the barometric

[01:49:05] pressure will change throughout the day and then he's got this formula that he uses probably with

[01:49:11] the slide rule that he got in 1972 but he will then compute what the elevations where he was at to make

[01:49:19] these observations based upon the barometric pressure so you i i when i'm out in the field with him i just

[01:49:25] get the the the total sense that i am submersed in a scientific experience oh yeah this that's like

[01:49:34] the hiking is almost secondary to this is you're out in the field with mike kudish the film is rolling

[01:49:42] like you're in this outdoor classroom he's just you know unleashing this vast knowledge of anything and

[01:49:51] everything it's crazy all your questions are answered in an understandable way and then he

[01:49:57] start you know take these notes and diagrams and drawings you can check all of this out online all

[01:50:02] of his notes are available now on online and you have to get his book because anywhere you hike in the

[01:50:09] catskills he'll tell you it's uh history and how it got to the way it is today mm-hmm very

[01:50:19] cool it's absolutely insane and when you're hiking with him it seems like there's explosions all around

[01:50:26] you but everything focuses on this guy and you're just like like i i can't you know there's something

[01:50:33] going on behind me there's world war three going on behind me but you know mike kudish has given an

[01:50:38] observation on this shrub over here i gotta pay attention yeah i gotta i gotta pay attention screw this

[01:50:44] it's it's absolutely phenomenal so if you ever get the chance you know uh i will post links to the

[01:50:50] michael kudish historic preserve up in stanford you can get some stuff with him or you know he might

[01:50:56] you know reach out to him he might involve you on one of his like local walks or something like that

[01:51:01] he has a lot going on oh yeah fantastic so amazing time tad thank you once again for including me on

[01:51:08] that because you know if i would have been pissed if we'd done our original hike with views yeah i mean

[01:51:14] there was a there was no views absolutely sunday number one and number two even though i don't think

[01:51:20] we hiked a total of two miles and that i think that's a big exaggeration when i pump it up to two

[01:51:26] maybe maybe not i don't know but i'm just gonna ask you how much yeah it was it wasn't far at all but

[01:51:32] it was just so enriching that experience so yeah i gotta check out check out on instagram i posted

[01:51:39] some of the vids of stosh and the the whatever peat harvesting tool and hootish and all things peat

[01:51:49] bogging and cats yeah well awesome experience once again thank you for including me on that you know

[01:51:57] usually we go over the weather forecast but i don't trust this weather forecast

[01:52:01] because it's it's showing every day from friday to sunday to being clear low of 50 uh low at 39 at

[01:52:11] night to a high of 59 on sunday so i don't trust that but you know peak is gonna hit soon this week so

[01:52:21] get out there have some fun enjoy be safe watch for the leaves because they're going to be slippery on the

[01:52:26] rocks yeah well the moral of the story is check the weather forecast the night before and the morning of

[01:52:33] correct correct all right so we'll go on to the set of sponsors and then we'll just go straight into

[01:52:41] uh the post-hike bruising bites because we've already bs for two hours

[01:52:46] so discover camp catskill in tannersville your ultimate hiking store find top quality gear

[01:52:52] inside the line catskill stickers and apparel and accessories for all your outdoor adventures

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[01:53:17] hudson valley with scenic route guiding our expert guides to ensure a safe unforgettable i can experience

[01:53:23] tell to your skill level from breathtaking visits a hidden gen or if you're peak bagging to just simple

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[01:53:40] can get 10 off use the code mountain lion i just want to give a huge shout out even though it's the

[01:53:47] big it's the end of the thing which i should have said this earlier to yana and sarah for doing their

[01:53:53] all trails challenge i was with them this weekend this previous weekend at the casco mountain club dinner

[01:53:59] and they have received their patches and their certificates so once again uh congratulations

[01:54:05] siana and sarah for doing your all trails rounds it's awesome and uh tad and i are going to be

[01:54:11] probably going a deep dive into each different section of the catskills i want to do it each

[01:54:17] dive into central northeast southwest of the catskills so maybe we'll have guests maybe we'll be talking

[01:54:25] about it by ourselves so just wanted to mention that congratulations siana and sarah so also embark on

[01:54:30] a transformative journey with another summit another summit is dedicated to serving veterans

[01:54:35] and first responders with free outdoor activities activities like walks in nature paddling hiking or

[01:54:41] even backpacking join us towards forward of a community to rejuvenate nature's embrace experience

[01:54:48] camaraderie adventure and healing at no cost take your next step with another summit and ascend to new

[01:54:54] heights of resilience and joy apply today on another summit.org i also wanted to thank everybody who

[01:55:01] donated to the one mile challenge that i did with guardian revival who uh another summit is also a subcontract

[01:55:08] of a guardian revival who's does the uh veterans and force responders so we did a fundraiser for

[01:55:16] uh guardian revival and the fundraiser raised over sixteen hundred thousand sixteen hundred thousand

[01:55:21] jesus sixteen hundred dollars of uh funds to guardian revival so thank you once again everybody for

[01:55:29] donating to the one mile challenge uh so since we're already two hours into it uh let's go to straight

[01:55:37] to post hike bruising bright what did you do after dr kudish's awesome hike oh i went to

[01:55:47] stewart's and got a cup of coffee that's what i did didn't i see peaches turning you didn't you

[01:55:53] didn't get any pizza no i wasn't gonna get that pizza i'm sorry it's so good though it's so thick

[01:55:58] it's awesome is it really i'm so i i have this thing i love pizza and that's that's why of the few

[01:56:06] hard and fast rules that i live by one of my rules is no more than two slices of pizza a week

[01:56:15] oh wow yeah because yeah i mean seriously i i i could sit down in front of a pizza pie and eat the

[01:56:23] whole thing right i mean if it's good pie i mean if it's really good pie yeah there's i'm like i if

[01:56:30] if nathan's hot dogs instead of like a hot dog eating competition had a pizza eating competition it was

[01:56:36] good pizza forget about it i'd win every year okay i'd be really really large and couldn't fit into a

[01:56:43] car or go hiking on the one hand but yeah i'd win that competition because i can eat a lot of pizza so

[01:56:48] i realized the best way for me to enjoy pizza is just to have two slices a week so and those yeah maybe

[01:56:59] someday i'll get stewart's pizza but i will say two of the best slices i ever had was after

[01:57:10] doing the catskill nine in the winter after i was done after i was done i made it to a pizzeria like

[01:57:19] 30 seconds before they closed and i got the last two slices they had and boy they were delicious you

[01:57:26] were that person weren't you yeah i was i think those slices had been out all day oh man but yeah

[01:57:32] but it was village pizza and new paltz and they were good really good sounds good yeah i didn't i

[01:57:39] think i think when i came home jessica made some dinner so i didn't stop anywhere i just flew home

[01:57:46] probably pizza and cauliflower so we had similar experiences so i've really wanted to stop at uh

[01:57:52] mcgregor's for uh hunter i think it's mcgregor's mcgregor's or something like that it's right in

[01:57:59] hunter right in the middle hunter so never heard of it oh i gotta go there sometimes so so when i'm

[01:58:04] over that way i go a little bit further to van duzen's you know right out of lexington yeah yeah

[01:58:13] that's a nice place got a lot of nice hard cider yeah so van duzen's i will put them down

[01:58:23] uh all right so let's wrap it up so yeah we did it two hours yeah by ourselves jesus yeah i was so i

[01:58:31] wonder how many people actually listen to the end we started off with like eight listeners how many make

[01:58:37] it to the end three three not even right right yeah thanks so write in tell us tell us if you actually

[01:58:48] listen to the whole show it'd be like a a weird thing of saying i finished it's the ultra yeah

[01:58:55] it's the ultra so thank you to the monthly supporters and monthly sponsors really appreciate you guys still

[01:59:01] supporting the show uh thank you to everybody who has donated to the show really appreciate it once

[01:59:06] again that goes back in the catskills mostly uh and thank you to everyone who is listening 141 episodes

[01:59:12] still going strong still feeling good still having a good time ted i don't know about you after 21

[01:59:18] episodes right 26 but who's counting yeah but who's counting i thought you said it was 20 last time i

[01:59:25] don't remember it was this it was the silver last 25 what's this i don't know what the what's the gold

[01:59:31] with the silver you know how many years you've been married hold on hold on hold on hold on

[01:59:40] just 12 12 12 all right so you got a long time to go right yeah all right so once again thank you

[01:59:47] guys really appreciate it have a good night and uh hope to see you out on the trail sometime soon

[01:59:54] yes see you in the bog yeah right see you in the bog all right all right all right buddy be well you too

[02:00:06] bye everyone i just want to thank you for listening to the show if you enjoyed the show subscribe and throw

[02:00:12] down a smooth review on spotify apple podcast or any podcast platform that you use you can also check

[02:00:22] daily updates of the podcast hikes hiking news and local news on facebook instagram twitter and the

[02:00:31] official website of the show remember this you gotta just keep on living in the cat skills man

[02:00:39] m-i-v-i-s wicked wicked wicked wicked