Episode 138 - Balsam Lake Cabin Closed, Local Rescues, Colorado Rescues

[00:00:26] The Bushwax were some of the worst days I've ever had in the mountains, or life really.

[00:00:33] Whereas Pansom Mountains is totally opposite to Samelton, on top of a faith.

[00:00:39] I think the weather challenges on this incident were particularly difficult.

[00:00:44] It is really the development of New York State. Catskills are responsible.

[00:00:49] I'm not going to get into it.

[00:00:53] All you're listening to Inside The Line, The Catskill Mountains Podcast.

[00:01:06] So, 138 tonight.

[00:01:08] John Vanek will join us later on with Snakes and Wildlife and the Catskills.

[00:01:13] It's going to be an awesome episode but so far tonight.

[00:01:17] Tad and I are just going to shoot the shit for a little bit.

[00:01:19] Two things, Tad. Two things. I don't know if you know this.

[00:01:22] We will have no episode next week because I will be in...

[00:01:27] You didn't request approval to go away for a week.

[00:01:30] Hey, it's... I'm the owner of this organization.

[00:01:35] Yeah, well we still have an HR department, don't we?

[00:01:39] And did you get approval from them to take a week off?

[00:01:41] Absolutely. We don't have any HR departments.

[00:01:44] We can barely afford some stuff but we can afford donating, which I really appreciate people doing.

[00:01:49] We've donated a lot the past couple of years.

[00:01:52] I'll be in Vermont. My wife and I usually take a vacation in the spring,

[00:01:57] which we went to Shenandoah National Park and did some trail magic.

[00:02:01] Now we're going to go up to Vermont and just chill at an awesome tiny house.

[00:02:06] We're taking a tiny house that overlooks a beautiful mountain range.

[00:02:11] It's going to be nice.

[00:02:13] Weird composting toilet up there.

[00:02:15] That sounds exciting.

[00:02:16] It is. It's really weird to see because Vermont has a lot of different green laws and this is one of them.

[00:02:26] Well, all I can say is I know you're getting older because you're talking about composting toilets.

[00:02:34] Correct.

[00:02:36] 20 years ago you would have made fun of people talking about composting toilets.

[00:02:40] Look, now you're one of us.

[00:02:42] It's a great idea. It's a great idea.

[00:02:44] I will also be hiking, attempting, I probably will, hiking the highest mountain in Vermont, which is Mount Mansfield.

[00:02:53] Mount Mansfield. Can you drive a car to the top of that or is it just trail access?

[00:02:58] You can drive a car like three quarters of the way.

[00:03:01] Okay.

[00:03:02] But Jessica's going to be dropping me off like it's called the Sunrise Trail.

[00:03:09] And I'll be hiking mostly above tree line, which is what I look for.

[00:03:13] There's another way up that's called like Hell Toll or something like that.

[00:03:16] And I do not want to take that because number one, because the sound of it hell's whole.

[00:03:22] But number two, there's more exposure on this sunrise hike.

[00:03:25] So I get more exposure.

[00:03:27] I want to be above tree line a little bit more. It'll be fun.

[00:03:31] Maximum exposure.

[00:03:32] That's what I'm hearing. Can't wait to hear the stories. Hope you have great weather.

[00:03:36] Yeah. But you know, thinking about that weather, Ted, the weather has changed.

[00:03:42] Like we're starting to get into almost fall stuff.

[00:03:45] Yeah. It's this week, I think the morning temperature in the forties around here. So.

[00:03:50] So we got to be mindful of what we pack now.

[00:03:53] It's now, you know, pack your long sleeves, long, you know,

[00:04:01] hands and stuff like that to where maybe if you have to camp overnight,

[00:04:05] because it's going to get chilly, especially up in the mountains.

[00:04:07] You're going to get in those valleys probably in the mid 30s, to high 30s.

[00:04:12] And that's chilly.

[00:04:14] Yeah. Well, it's like you said, we're weeks away from that time of year where it's not predictable what it's going to be like at night.

[00:04:20] And in the summertime, whether it's 80 degrees at night or 60 degrees at night,

[00:04:26] so long as you're dry, you're going to do okay. But when you get into the 30s at night and if you're wet, it's a game changer.

[00:04:34] Definitely. Yeah, definitely. Once again, yeah. Even if you're in a lean tour or tent or anything,

[00:04:40] it will take so long for you to rejuvenate that heat that you have in your body to get warm.

[00:04:48] And you know, once you get cotton kills, yeah, if you're stupid, cotton does kill.

[00:04:53] But you have once again those layers to help you get that heat back in the night.

[00:05:01] It's a light saber. Yeah, so I generally don't wear anything cotton when I go hiking.

[00:05:07] Absolutely not. It's kind of like a waste of money to have anything made out of cotton.

[00:05:13] Maybe other than sweatband, that might be okay.

[00:05:16] Correct. Yeah, yeah. I always 24-7. I know this sounds horrible, but I always pack an extra long sleeve t-shirt,

[00:05:25] long sleeve pair of pants, moisture wicking and what else is in there?

[00:05:31] There's something else in there. A winter hat just in case. Always. I always have that in there.

[00:05:37] That's more than me, man. Sometimes I go out with so little gear.

[00:05:43] Not when I'm in the Catskills, but when I'm on other places. I figure when,

[00:05:49] with an ear shot of a roadway and I'm not that high in elevation, why do I need all that gear?

[00:05:54] True. So you also, you choose those trails that you don't run into people that often?

[00:05:59] Yeah, well unlike this weekend, I mean this weekend I went to a rather touristy place

[00:06:05] and for about the middle third of that hike I saw a lot of people and it was kind of interesting.

[00:06:12] It was a whole different vibe hiking in the gunks on a weekend than what I'm used to up in the Catskills.

[00:06:20] Different crowd, different level of preparation, just a totally different vibe hiking around there.

[00:06:27] Hmm. Can't wait to hear about that.

[00:06:29] Yeah. Well, one of the weirdest things while I'm on this topic is so you're so used to hiking in the Catskills

[00:06:33] on trails, going over stuff that is difficult to get over and then you go hiking in the gunks

[00:06:38] and every few minutes a person on a bicycle goes by.

[00:06:44] And then you're like a family goes by with a couple kids that are under 10 years old on their bicycles

[00:06:52] with baskets and little streamers that go riding by here like what the fuck?

[00:06:57] And you have a huge backpack there like why is this idiot packing for them?

[00:07:03] It's the truth because I was planning on hiking the Catskills and I did an audible on my way over

[00:07:07] and just ended up at the gunks for almost 20 miles and I was like full Catskill geared up right down to my in-reach

[00:07:16] Garmin on my backpack. I was like the only one with an in-reach and maybe emergency matches

[00:07:23] and some emergency overnight stuff everyone else was sightseeing.

[00:07:29] Wow. Awesome. Well, I mean it's kind of setting a good example.

[00:07:34] Well, I don't know what type of thing. The best example you can set in the gunks is stay on trail because there's a lot of sensitive vegetation.

[00:07:42] I'm making that remark partly owing to what I see our friend Danny doing over there from Mighty Mischievous fame

[00:07:50] and pick up everybody else's stuff when you walk around because there's a lot of it on the trail over there.

[00:07:56] I can be beautiful and I'm glad people are catching on and enjoying it, but we need to educate a little bit more.

[00:08:06] It's doing good. It's not doing bad.

[00:08:08] Well, when you say people catching on and enjoying it, I read an interesting article just the other day how REI has a rather sharp decrease in gross sales.

[00:08:20] Sharp? This is...

[00:08:22] Yeah, it's absolutely insane.

[00:08:23] Yeah. So you wonder who's absorbing that, picking up that market share? Is it going to Amazon or somebody else or is it just a sign that there is that big wave and interest in getting outside and doing recreational things a few years ago?

[00:08:40] And then that's kind of tapering off and people aren't spending that money on gear like they used to.

[00:08:47] Did you get that from the Slasher Popcast that you recommended?

[00:08:51] No, I didn't. Yeah, but I see they had Ken on there. Ken was a very interesting guest. I think he's a fairly interesting fellow who with all of his barefoot hiking and everything else he does, he certainly gets into some deep thoughts and that's evident from speaking to him.

[00:09:09] 100%

[00:09:10] Episode 47, Ken Posner was on our podcast and he was absolutely fantastic. And I got to admit, I think he went a little bit deeper with the Slasher Podcast. So don't listen to that. Listen to the episode 47 of us. And it was fantastic.

[00:09:26] Yeah. But congratulations, Ken on being on there. It's an awesome podcast. Those two are fantastic. But you know what? Stomp had one question. He needs to be there a little bit more often, right?

[00:09:39] Yeah, I thought that was fairly interesting that Mike did 99.9% of the interrogation of barefoot Ken and you know Stomp who I think Stomp spends a lot of time doing physical therapy for folks and you would think they would have a ton of questions about Ken and barefoot.

[00:10:00] But I mean Ken does everything barefooted and you know, I would be interested to know when things like his posture, his gait and you know how it's changed his ability just after doing all that hiking all day long. And do you put on a pair of regular shoes? And how does that feel? It's got to be different.

[00:10:18] Definitely.

[00:10:19] You got to admire a guy who has done all of the extensive hiking that Ken has done barefooted.

[00:10:27] Yeah.

[00:10:28] That's crazy.

[00:10:28] Exactly. I'm crazy to think about.

[00:10:31] Seriously, when's the last time you stubbed your toes hiking in a boot?

[00:10:35] I barely walk in my backyard in bare feet.

[00:10:38] Yeah, but I mean here's here I was out hiking like I said on Saturday. You know, didn't hit anything with my feet and the the gunks because it's all room trails basically except for like 20 yards from my car just slammed my right foot.

[00:10:53] I mean seriously, I was like mentally I was already out of the parking lot looking at my Jeep ahead of me and just bam kicked a rock like it was a soccer ball. And I'm instantly I think it can and you know he just can't do that.

[00:11:07] He can't lose focus on where his feet are going when he's hiking.

[00:11:10] Very good point. Yeah, because what would he do? We fall on our face and laugh it off. His it's god damn toe unless it's it's built into hobbit toes.

[00:11:21] And it just like suffers a tiny little prick.

[00:11:24] Yeah, when we saw him at the Expo I was definitely checking out his feet.

[00:11:29] That's a little comfortable but actually very good point.

[00:11:33] I'm sure he's used to it. He's kind of kind of proud of those things.

[00:11:36] The first thing I wanted to notice is like does he have webbing or something between his toes? I mean you know, you spend that much time barefooted.

[00:11:43] You've got to have some type of anatomical changes.

[00:11:47] And the next thing I wondered is, you know, can you imagine being married to Ken? Guy comes home.

[00:11:52] It's like does he always have dirty feet? I mean, I don't know.

[00:11:55] I'm not, you know, I'm not putting you down.

[00:11:56] I got a lot of respect for what you do but man.

[00:12:00] Yeah.

[00:12:01] Does he like after his normal job does he come home and like throw his shoes off?

[00:12:05] I've had enough.

[00:12:05] Yeah, I don't know. Maybe he's such a dominant figure.

[00:12:09] He's got the, you know, the sway at work just to walk around barefooted in a suit.

[00:12:16] Awesome.

[00:12:17] Yeah. All right. So we're a little tangent there with our friend barefoot.

[00:12:21] He's awesome. So once again, the weather is changing. Pack extra clothes.

[00:12:27] Also, so I heard about this recently and it's been, it's been happening for a while now, but the Balsam Lake fire tower cabin.

[00:12:35] Now this is not the fire tower top.

[00:12:38] This is the lower part is closed due to repairs needed.

[00:12:41] Now this has been happening for quite some time over five years.

[00:12:45] We have heard that this has been closed because the cabin needs repairs and nothing has happened.

[00:12:52] Our good friend, Lori Rankin did an awesome report about this and I will, I'll find a way to post it to our social media pages.

[00:13:02] But that is this cabin, the lower cabin was a place for the force rangers to take shelter and stuff like that during the times of when they had to watch for fires up in the fire towers.

[00:13:19] But it's kind of a historic place.

[00:13:23] It's kind of big place in history and now it's been collected and now it's being closed down where it could be a great information for hikers.

[00:13:32] Yeah. I mean, it's kind of like a real life museum, if you will, in the place where at one time was functioning.

[00:13:42] So the first thing is, do we know who it is that, well, how much would it cost to fix this up?

[00:13:50] Do we have any idea what the dollar number is on that?

[00:13:54] I'm not sure.

[00:13:56] But is it thousands, tens of thousands or some other type of number?

[00:14:00] I wouldn't say it would be thousands or even tens of thousands.

[00:14:04] Maybe the floor needs redone.

[00:14:08] I mean, it's labor hauling 2x4s up to the top of this mountain.

[00:14:16] But you got to admit that Balsam Lake is one of the easiest hikes that you can do with the Catskills.

[00:14:23] So all of these fire towers are accessible by vehicle if you had to get a vehicle up there.

[00:14:28] But it's interesting with all the money that's spent on other projects, why this one's neglected, particularly when the DEC has this big push on the fire tower challenge and they're promoting these fire towers left and right.

[00:14:43] It would make sense that at one of... Well, you have a cabin at Hunter, but at Balsam Lake, why not have that cabin in operation and have the ability for people to go in and check it out and see what that was like?

[00:14:56] I think it makes the attraction more enjoyable and it's a shame that they don't have the resources or haven't allocated the resources to that.

[00:15:06] And if somebody were to start raising money to redo that floor, would that be something that the DEC would be receptive to?

[00:15:18] Like a GoFundMe page or some other type of fundraiser to do that?

[00:15:24] Because it just seems a shame not to do that.

[00:15:27] And so when you mentioned this a couple weeks ago, I think maybe when you sent me that little post, one of the things I thought would be interesting if the state of New York would do...

[00:15:35] And this is kind of like a wild idea, so just sit back and listen to it.

[00:15:40] When you go and buy a lottery ticket, a big portion of those proceeds goes to support public education in New York State.

[00:15:49] Right? Did you know that, Stash?

[00:15:51] And the state has raised billions of dollars selling lottery tickets.

[00:15:57] Why can't you instead of buying a scratch off where the profits or proceeds in part go to the education department,

[00:16:06] why can't you buy a scratch off that benefits public lands, park lands in New York State?

[00:16:13] Yeah. Why can't you? I mean they let you buy a license plate that supports different interests in New York State.

[00:16:21] Why can't you do it more frequently than just when you get your license plate or when you fill out your tax return,

[00:16:27] you can make that nominal donation to any one of those funds or causes.

[00:16:32] It'd be great, you know, with hikers and outdoors people were able to target money and resources to the Catskills, the Adirondacks and other places just by buying scratch off tickets and other things like that.

[00:16:47] So there's my crazy idea.

[00:16:49] Write your state assemblymen, state senator or your governor.

[00:16:54] Let's make that happen, Stash.

[00:16:57] Let's get a mail order going.

[00:16:59] It's a fantastic idea.

[00:17:00] And you know, I'm over-reading Lori's report to the CPAC meeting which is the Catskill Park Advisory Committee meeting.

[00:17:13] And once again goes saying that 2019 it would become a liability.

[00:17:20] So this was five years ago, which is absolutely insane.

[00:17:24] You have to wonder if they can rebuild that.

[00:17:27] The restrictions on what can be done and not done in the Catskills, if they let that cabin fall into such a state of repair that they can't rebuild it, what a shame that is.

[00:17:41] Yeah.

[00:17:42] I've noticed some of the times they have with lean tunes and such that they have actually flown stuff up there and dropped it in.

[00:17:50] Balsam Lake is a perfect place to do that, two by fours could be flown up there and dropped in maybe two drops.

[00:18:00] And now this place that people could, one of the first hikes that usually people do is overlook Balsam Lake because it's the easiest.

[00:18:10] And this would get your attention and such, but they're like, hey, the cabin's closed.

[00:18:14] This was a historic spot.

[00:18:15] You can't go in there.

[00:18:17] Yeah.

[00:18:17] And one of the other things that I looked into in anticipation of this being discussed, do you know how much it costs to get one of those passions?

[00:18:27] How much is after you finish the Fire Tower Challenge?

[00:18:32] What's it like, 15 bucks?

[00:18:35] I thought it was nothing.

[00:18:37] I thought you fill out the form, you submit it by email and they send you this nice patch for absolutely free, right?

[00:18:47] Yeah, why don't they just raise money and awareness by charging you a couple bucks for the patch and maybe soliciting a donation as part of LAK.

[00:18:55] You like the Fire Tower Challenge?

[00:18:58] You've done it a couple years in a row now.

[00:18:59] Why don't you kick in $5 to help maintain the Fire Towers, the cabins and those resources that are connected with them?

[00:19:08] Yeah.

[00:19:09] And you can't say that you would don't enjoy the Fire Towers.

[00:19:14] Oh yeah.

[00:19:15] It's like the one sure thing in the CAT skills is when you get to that Fire Tower, you're going to get a view.

[00:19:23] Other places, the view is limited.

[00:19:28] Sometimes if you haven't been up there in a few years, you get to a viewpoint and it's now covered in with trees or something, but you come to a Fire Tower, no matter where the clouds are, you can look around and you get a good view.

[00:19:40] Oh, you get that feeling right above tree line?

[00:19:43] Yeah.

[00:19:44] The winds are changing.

[00:19:46] You get that cold, you're like, damn, this is totally different.

[00:19:50] That's what I get.

[00:19:51] I'll always at Balsam Lake because there's always winds up there and it's fantastic.

[00:19:56] Yeah, that's a great spot.

[00:19:58] Yeah.

[00:19:59] And Laurie also said, of course, I haven't said that I've been on Mount Trezor, Trepper recently, but I've noticed that trees, of course, are growing and that the view on even the cabin is starting to be obstructed with the growth of the trees.

[00:20:18] And Mount Trepper is a fantastic viewpoint because you get a viewpoint of the boroughs range, you get a viewpoint of the Indian Head Devils path, stuff like that.

[00:20:29] And that has become an obstructed and they're like, hey, should we cut this down?

[00:20:33] Should we not?

[00:20:34] And of course, this was 2024 reports, so they're getting bigger and bigger and who knows if that view will be blocked soon.

[00:20:44] Yeah.

[00:20:45] So what do you think, Stosh, should they bring a chainsaw up there and cut down some trees?

[00:20:50] That's a tough question.

[00:20:51] Really?

[00:20:52] You think so?

[00:20:53] You think it's tough?

[00:20:56] I very enjoy that view up at Mount Trepper because it gives you the boroughs range that you could be like, oh, damn, I want to go climb that.

[00:21:04] Of course, the fire tower people would come up there, look at that and be like, that looks awesome.

[00:21:09] Let's go do that.

[00:21:10] And then you get the view over towards Hunter.

[00:21:13] You can see the Hunter Mountain Fire Tower, you can see Overlook.

[00:21:16] It just offers such a great viewpoint.

[00:21:18] But preserve maybe, but, you know, the viewpoints, I'm all about the viewpoints.

[00:21:26] I want to.

[00:21:28] So yes.

[00:21:30] Yes, I'm going with yes.

[00:21:31] Cut them down.

[00:21:32] That's it.

[00:21:33] All right.

[00:21:33] That's the end of tonight's show.

[00:21:35] Stosh and I are heading up to Mount Trepper right now.

[00:21:37] Bring your two cycle motor oil.

[00:21:40] I'll bring the chainsaw.

[00:21:42] Yes.

[00:21:43] What do you think?

[00:21:45] You know, I'd leave it to guys like Mike Kudish and tell us what the value of those trees are and, you know, what the habitat is around them.

[00:21:52] And as long as we're not displacing some animals, I mean, obviously you would displace some of the animals that are there.

[00:22:02] But is it, are they at some critical level where it'd be a big deal to cut down those trees and damage, you know, the habitat for those animals?

[00:22:11] Or is it something that they just really want to notice?

[00:22:13] And as long as you did it like in a certain season of the year where they're not nesting there or something else, you know, take them down.

[00:22:19] And it's, yeah, and it's not like it's one of these things where you need to do it every other year.

[00:22:25] You know, you probably wouldn't have to cut down any more trees there for another 25, 50 years.

[00:22:31] Yeah.

[00:22:32] It all depends on the circumference of the trees.

[00:22:35] Yeah.

[00:22:36] That's a big and great, you know, great idea, Ted, with contacting Dr. Kudish.

[00:22:41] He could, you know, take up there and observe and be like, you know, I'm pretty sure up at Shrempa, the only kind of the animals are up there, porcupines.

[00:22:50] Yeah.

[00:22:51] Eating away at the leantus.

[00:22:54] Even though they just put a new one up there.

[00:22:56] They enhanced that one up there.

[00:22:58] I'm pretty sure.

[00:22:59] I don't have a firm recollection of the leantown to a tremper.

[00:23:03] Dude, it's like 200 feet from the fire tower.

[00:23:07] Beautiful spot.

[00:23:08] Yeah.

[00:23:08] I remember seeing it.

[00:23:11] I just remember the day I went through there.

[00:23:14] I was hustling.

[00:23:16] I did a long hike that day and I just kind of motored right through there.

[00:23:20] Warner Creek, right?

[00:23:22] Yeah.

[00:23:22] I hiked all the way up.

[00:23:23] But what is that the notch up there?

[00:23:27] Fantastic spot.

[00:23:29] Yeah, bike down to Phoenicia, hiked back.

[00:23:32] That's a good day.

[00:23:33] Beast.

[00:23:34] So once again, maybe contact your local senator and such like that in Albany.

[00:23:40] Get a hold of them.

[00:23:41] Tell them that this needs to be done.

[00:23:43] I will contact Lori and we can get maybe something going.

[00:23:47] We can get maybe like a kind of like a little script that everybody can copy and paste and just put their names on.

[00:23:53] Definitely.

[00:23:54] Yeah.

[00:23:55] Fantastic.

[00:23:55] So let's go protest in Albany.

[00:23:58] Yes.

[00:23:59] I'm trying to think of, I'll get rage against the machine up there and we'll do a song.

[00:24:05] Yeah, we'll set up our folding table, some microphones.

[00:24:08] Just like we were in Woodland Valley last weekend and do our thing.

[00:24:14] Yes.

[00:24:15] All right.

[00:24:16] Next order of business.

[00:24:18] So we have a couple of rescues that happened around here.

[00:24:21] So on August 24th, 2.45 p.m.

[00:24:27] Ray Book just cracked a call from a hiker and giant ledge summit who has suffered a knee injury.

[00:24:32] I didn't know there was a summit on giant ledge.

[00:24:34] Yeah, I kind of stuck there myself.

[00:24:38] Maybe that's I've never been to that giant ledge in the Catskills.

[00:24:41] I go to the other one with the fuse.

[00:24:44] So Horton Sweeney, Rangers Horton Sweeney met the 26 year old from Maryland and his group hiked on the trail.

[00:24:51] Rangers helped to walk the hiker back to the trailhead where he decided to seek actually further medical attention on his own.

[00:24:58] So that's, you know, I wonder if they actually really did that and they just didn't say hey, sources were cleared by 6.30 p.m.

[00:25:05] So probably around a four hour rescue.

[00:25:09] And you know, to be honest, I am not surprised because I'm surprised there.

[00:25:14] I'm surprised that there has not been more rescues up in the giant ledge area because I got admit going from 42 up to giant ledge is actually a very difficult hike with a lot of scramble.

[00:25:26] So slippery rocks and stuff like that.

[00:25:28] So yeah, yeah, I remember my first time up and down Panther from the hairpin turn there and on the way down when you hit those, you know, little boulder fields.

[00:25:41] All I'm thinking is enough already.

[00:25:45] Right?

[00:25:45] Yeah, it's like never ending.

[00:25:47] And then you get to the last one.

[00:25:48] It's like, oh my God, seriously?

[00:25:50] Not another one.

[00:25:51] So yeah, it's a lot of people are unaware that this is not just a walk through the woods.

[00:25:58] This is, I wouldn't say it scrambles, but it's stuff that gets critical.

[00:26:04] Yeah.

[00:26:05] Well, go back to stubbing your toes, man.

[00:26:07] I mean, there's a lot of rock action there to bang your toes on and apparently twist your knee with.

[00:26:15] And yeah, I can see people doing that all the time.

[00:26:19] You got to wonder how many people twist an ankle or a knee up there but are able to walk out.

[00:26:24] Yeah.

[00:26:24] It goes unreported.

[00:26:26] Yeah.

[00:26:27] So once again, thank you to the horn and Sweeney.

[00:26:30] Highly doubtful they listened to this, but hey, good for them.

[00:26:33] Slade, thanks them because yeah, I know you're the head ranger over there.

[00:26:37] So Slade, you're the man.

[00:26:40] Also, Sullivan County tunnel of Rockland not familiar with Rockland, but the Mongop campground staff noticed from Raybrook Dispratch that two campers in their 40s failed to return them from their campsite after a morning hike at Hodgepond.

[00:26:55] Hodgepond is one of the more popular places down in that area in the Western Catskills.

[00:26:59] So at 5.45 p.m. Forest Ranger Creft, I'm familiar with the hike with him a couple times, located two missing hikers and discovered that one had suffered an ankle injury.

[00:27:10] Due to the injury, the pair of hikers walked very slowly with Creft down the trail at 9.40 p.m. They made it back to the campground.

[00:27:17] So that was a six and a half hour rescue.

[00:27:21] So that's pretty tough, especially over in the Western Catskills where it's not really a difficult terrain like Giant Ledge.

[00:27:28] Yeah, so you have to wonder if those folks when they left their campsite, presumably, you know, that morning or around midday, if they had enough food and water with them to get them to 9.40.

[00:27:41] I'll assume the ranger is packed in some treats for them, but that's kind of a long period of time to go out without some grub and to have an ankle injury.

[00:27:53] Yeah. And that was once again in Western Catskills, kind of like a more popular area, the Monggop campground. Hodgepond, very popular area.

[00:28:04] So kudos to them once again for the rangers for kicking axe and taking names as Alex would say kicking axe instead of ass.

[00:28:14] So another thing that my friend Rich sent me from he's actually from my search and rescue team sent me Colorado man left behind on Mountain Summit by co-workers after office retreat.

[00:28:29] So I know you and I and Sarah talked about this last time it wasn't this exact situation, but it was very similar.

[00:28:40] Correct?

[00:28:42] Yeah. I mean, the group hikes with the straggler very common occurrence.

[00:28:50] Right? You know, and that's where hike, hike leaders or organizers who are properly trained know how to deal with this or should know how to deal with this and avoid it.

[00:29:03] But when you read this story, I mean, it's sad what happened to this guy.

[00:29:07] It's actually very crazy. So an injured Colorado Colorado man, whether they storm survived a night alone on a mountain after his co-workers left him behind during an office retreat.

[00:29:20] The man was part of a 15 co-workers who had set off to summit Mount Shavono on Friday in the Chappy search and rescue summit.

[00:29:29] Now, this is once again a male hiker who was wearing all black reached the summit at 1140 am not bad timing.

[00:29:37] Perfect time to summit and became disoriented as he began his descent.

[00:29:43] He found his belongings left in the Boulder field to mark the path for his descent and had been picked up by his previous group as they hiked down.

[00:29:52] So 14 people decided to pick up his stuff made a group decision that to left him in the area.

[00:30:00] What do you think this thought process was? Do you think they thought, well, we're going to help Bob out because Bob is slow and he shouldn't be carrying all this stuff.

[00:30:09] So let's take it or, you know, were they busting Bob's balls?

[00:30:14] I mean, what's what's going on here? Why would you take the guy's stuff?

[00:30:17] I mean, you know, what type of stuff was it? Was it like a spare gear? Was it a windbreaker? Was it food? Was it water?

[00:30:24] Yeah.

[00:30:25] That's crazy.

[00:30:26] It's absolutely insane to just be like, Hey, let's take his stuff. Well, we'll make it lighter for him.

[00:30:31] What was he on the summit with at the time?

[00:30:35] Yeah. Well, I mean, he's going up. It's like midday.

[00:30:38] You know, we probably thought he could get up and down relatively quickly and didn't have to log up all that stuff.

[00:30:44] I mean, who knows what his thought process is. We're at that time. But what about the group and taking this guy's stuff?

[00:30:51] Yeah. So this peak is a 14er. So it's 14,230 feet.

[00:30:57] So why the hell would you leave? Like, what would you hike a 14er without?

[00:31:03] Yeah.

[00:31:04] All right. I mean, you don't, I guarantee the most difficult thing on top of one of these 14ers is to filter water.

[00:31:12] Yeah. You know, I mean, it's just crazy. And because this is a work related outing, you got to wonder how knowledgeable he and the others were relative to this type of endeavor.

[00:31:26] Was this guy way in over his head or was he not? I mean, it's just bizarre.

[00:31:33] Or was this a time of where they were like, he's not making profit. Let's leave him on top of the mountain. Hopefully, it's not that.

[00:31:39] It could have been like this. Nobody in the office liked Bob and they decided, you know, instead of handing him a pink slip, let's just take his stuff and run.

[00:31:50] So once again, you're on top of 14er. Hopefully, you'll have, you know, the Karens that I destroyed down at Michael Falls earlier.

[00:31:59] He destroyed this descent on his own and he found them itself in a steep boulder field in Scree, which of course is all 14ers.

[00:32:06] You know, I had never hiked a 14er. I've hiked 10,000 foot mountains up in the Canadian wilderness area, the Canadian Rockies.

[00:32:14] But I know that that's going to be Scree above a certain amount of feet.

[00:32:19] And these coworkers informed him that his route was wrong and the climb back up the slope and regain the trail.

[00:32:26] So as the man near the trail near around 3.50 p.m., he set another pin drop to text his group.

[00:32:34] Now, he didn't send it to, you know, emergency officials. He sent this to a group shortly after the message.

[00:32:40] However, a strong storm humbled the area with freezing rains and high wind as you would expect during the 14er.

[00:32:48] And he further cut off his cell service.

[00:32:51] Search and rescue received the call about the overdue hike around 9 p.m.

[00:32:55] So that's nine hours later when he summited and two HAC teams and a drone pilot searched throughout the night by high winds and freezing rain prevented them from reaching the summit.

[00:33:07] So the following morning, the man regained enough cell service to kind of call 911 for help.

[00:33:12] He was found above the North Fourth drainage, which is a gully below the Espera point, which I'm not very concerned.

[00:33:19] And he had become disoriented and fell at least 20 times during the attempt to descend the loan.

[00:33:25] So this guy had enough courage to try to get himself out.

[00:33:28] He said after his last fall, he was unable to get up.

[00:33:31] And I would think after not having like a pack or anything like that, you know, he was very lucky to regain cell service and stuff.

[00:33:39] And searcher officials, they found him.

[00:33:45] It doesn't say when they found him actually, he was located in a search area and they found him on their own.

[00:33:53] It doesn't say when they located him.

[00:33:55] So I'm very curious of when they located him.

[00:33:57] Yeah, we know it's the next day.

[00:33:59] What I'm hung up on a few things here.

[00:34:02] One of them is he sends a pin drop at 350 and attacks to his group.

[00:34:09] And it says shortly after sending the message, a strong storm pummeled the area and he loses his signal, his cell signal.

[00:34:18] And then the call for help goes in at 9 p.m.

[00:34:24] So where are these people for that five hour span of time?

[00:34:28] Right?

[00:34:29] He sends them a pin.

[00:34:31] They know where he is presumably and they know that he's way the fuck up there.

[00:34:35] Okay.

[00:34:37] And what do they do for the next five hours?

[00:34:40] What's their plan?

[00:34:42] Are they like hanging out in the parking lot this whole time?

[00:34:45] Have they left and gone to the bar?

[00:34:47] I mean, where is his help during that period of time?

[00:34:52] These people not only did they just leave them on the mountain, it sounds like they just took off, you know?

[00:34:57] And what do you do, Stosh?

[00:35:00] You're trained in this.

[00:35:01] What do you do?

[00:35:02] Your co-worker is high on the mountain.

[00:35:07] He sends you this signal.

[00:35:10] Next thing you know a storm comes in.

[00:35:12] Do you send people up to help him?

[00:35:15] Do you place a call immediately that time?

[00:35:17] What if he's saying in his message, oh, don't worry about me.

[00:35:20] This is where I am.

[00:35:21] I'll make it down.

[00:35:22] You know, I'm glad you guys took all my stuff.

[00:35:24] I'll be able to get down, you know, in due course.

[00:35:28] Do you just drive away?

[00:35:30] I mean, number one, I mean both of us now never leave a fellow hiker behind.

[00:35:38] Because apparently he, you know, he makes it through the night, but the next morning he's so tired, drained of energy.

[00:35:46] I mean, who knows how well or poorly he slept through the night if he slept at all, right?

[00:35:50] It's not as if he had a cozy tent up there.

[00:35:52] So he's falling down.

[00:35:54] He reaches the point where he can't get up anymore.

[00:35:55] I mean, isn't all that foreseeable?

[00:35:58] Right?

[00:35:59] And nobody goes up to help this guy out.

[00:36:02] Nobody doubles back.

[00:36:03] Nobody places to call.

[00:36:04] They take his freaking pack away from him?

[00:36:06] Yeah.

[00:36:07] But you know, again, maybe we're just over analyzing it because maybe the whole group of 15 people, they just might have been newbies to all of this.

[00:36:16] And none of this was registering with them as being like a big deal, you know?

[00:36:22] I mean, maybe they just weren't appreciating the nature of the risk.

[00:36:25] I mean, but how would you feel like a day or two later if you found out your friend, your coworker, Bob, died of a problem?

[00:36:31] How is this like what, how is the vibe going into the work area the next time?

[00:36:39] Yeah.

[00:36:39] So I wonder what it's like in the office now, right?

[00:36:42] How he feels about everyone else that left him there, you know?

[00:36:47] That's pretty harsh.

[00:36:48] I found out a little bit later, I researched it a little bit more that 10 a.m. they found him the next day.

[00:36:56] And the funny thing is, I saw that CCAR, which is on, you know, Colorado, something said that we also again like to remind everyone recreating the back country to always hike with a partner, pack some bright cars.

[00:37:12] Other clothing, remember thoughts of ten essentials in your back.

[00:37:15] What happens when the frickin your coworkers take your back?

[00:37:18] Yeah, right.

[00:37:19] Yeah, right?

[00:37:20] That's crazy.

[00:37:22] Yeah.

[00:37:23] This poor guy.

[00:37:24] Unbelievable.

[00:37:25] And we've had, of course, these instances here's in the Catskills where people, I will always talk about this, that someone was left behind on Big Indian and they had to spend the night.

[00:37:37] And this was a massive discussion up on the social media pages.

[00:37:43] And I can't forget that.

[00:37:45] I can't forget that.

[00:37:46] This is absolutely one of those.

[00:37:48] What happened?

[00:37:48] Like what you said, what happens in the workplace when you come back?

[00:37:58] Yeah.

[00:37:59] Well, this is why I hike alone so nobody can leave me behind.

[00:38:03] Yeah, exactly.

[00:38:06] So you'll just die out there alone.

[00:38:08] Yeah, nobody has to call 911.

[00:38:10] You have an in reach.

[00:38:11] Don't lie.

[00:38:12] I don't know how to use it yet.

[00:38:14] I mean, do you have to charge it before you go out hiking?

[00:38:16] I thought when you like fall, then you hook it up and charge it then, right?

[00:38:21] Because why drain the battery before you have your accident?

[00:38:25] Which I think I should read the directions.

[00:38:28] I'm not quite sure.

[00:38:29] Yeah, I'll have to take it out of the box.

[00:38:31] Maybe the directions are inside the box.

[00:38:33] Yeah.

[00:38:33] So once again, we'll have another instance in Colorado.

[00:38:38] Ted, I think you sent me this that a woman is lost for four days in Colorado mountains is rescued.

[00:38:44] So this guy got rescued after a day, but this person Gina Chase when camping with an organization once again recommended participants fast and the curse discouraged cell phones during a spiritual retreat got lost and got rescued after four days.

[00:39:01] So a Canadian woman was rescued after four days after she got lost in the Colorado mountains and a guided spiritual quest according to the local sheriff department, which said that participants had been engaged too fast and discouraged from picking spell cell phones so fast.

[00:39:20] Basically don't have any food.

[00:39:22] So don't give you an energy.

[00:39:23] Fantastic idea.

[00:39:24] Awesome idea.

[00:39:25] I highly doubt that this organization is functioning today after this.

[00:39:30] So she is 53 of Bitters Columbia was camping in there the sand Miguel mountains of Colorado with 10 others through the animus Valley Institute, an organization based in Durango, Colorado.

[00:39:42] This emphasizes the spiritual value of being alone in nature and around 11 a.m. on August 14th, Miss Chase embarked on a solo journey near Long Creek Peak.

[00:39:53] It was pretty missing about 2 p.m.

[00:39:55] The next day and she did not return to camp on Sunday morning after a multi-day search that included a nine teams aircraft and drone.

[00:40:03] Miss Chase was found alive and uninjured after the sheriff's office initially said that she was found Saturday, but she wasn't found until Sunday.

[00:40:12] Interesting.

[00:40:13] She was part of a group of campers who designed alone in the back country with their cell phones without their cell phones and then fasting to maximize their experience with nature.

[00:40:23] Wow, what a great idea, especially in Colorado.

[00:40:26] Yeah, talk about a maximizing your experience.

[00:40:30] Spend an extra four days out in nature without food.

[00:40:35] There you go.

[00:40:36] There you go.

[00:40:37] She got her money's worth.

[00:40:38] That's for sure.

[00:40:39] If you want to.

[00:40:41] So one of the sheriffs on Facebook said, which is really great, you should always bring technology for communications.

[00:40:49] Furthermore, you should not starve yourself even given a guide service suggest the opposite of basic safety rules.

[00:40:57] Well done.

[00:40:58] Yeah, sheriff Bill Masters.

[00:41:00] Well, I'm looking at this organization's website now there's nothing on it about.

[00:41:07] Nothing on it at all.

[00:41:09] It's been wiped out.

[00:41:10] Yeah, I'm on the testimonial page.

[00:41:13] What is it though?

[00:41:14] Four four error.

[00:41:15] Yeah, if you have ever lost it after some unknown toiled over where you are at in your life, looked at the world sideways and still not understood it goes on and on.

[00:41:29] Go out and go out in the wild without your cell phone, without any food and without any way home for four days.

[00:41:36] That's what this this site's about.

[00:41:38] Well, you know, it's I mean in concept it's a good idea but apparently, you know, maybe a tracking device device then should be on each person.

[00:41:46] So it's easier to find them.

[00:41:48] And not in the Colorado wilderness.

[00:41:51] Jesus.

[00:41:52] Yeah.

[00:41:52] You know, and this is what I carry an in reach and one of the ways I justify having the in reach particularly in the Catskills where in some occasions it just might be considered to be overkill.

[00:42:04] But I look at that volunteer that's going to come out and, you know, try to find me.

[00:42:09] Why should that soul, you know, search around and spend how many ever days trying to find me just because I decided to, you know, rough it and not bring anything with me.

[00:42:21] You know, make it easier on the rescue crew if you have an incident that they don't have to spend, you know, two days or four days trying to hunt you down.

[00:42:31] They can get to you right away.

[00:42:32] It just makes sense.

[00:42:34] Yeah.

[00:42:35] Yeah.

[00:42:35] And, you know, Miss Chase reached out and said that I cried and couldn't accept that this was actually happening.

[00:42:43] And after about five minutes, my brain just clicked and said, it's about survival.

[00:42:47] And, you know, tad, you know, you have those safety devices.

[00:42:51] I have those safety devices.

[00:42:52] And that's the same instinct that, you know, we happen that happens with us when these instances happen is that, you know, you break your ankle.

[00:43:01] It's about survival right now.

[00:43:03] Even after you hit that call of saying, hey, I need help, you got to survive for maybe 12, you know, hours.

[00:43:11] Well, that last one we had the people, the first call to find him came in at 9 p.m.

[00:43:17] They didn't find him until the next day.

[00:43:19] And, you know, in the meantime, that storm pummeled him.

[00:43:23] That's what it said in the article.

[00:43:24] The guy was, you know, up at X thousand feet, presumably above tree line amongst the rocks and got pummeled in some western storm.

[00:43:35] And probably without much gear because his pals took it down the hill for him.

[00:43:41] Crazy.

[00:43:42] And, you know, it's funny I find out that apparently that the Animas organization said that Miss Chase was not without food or community.

[00:44:01] And they also said that it's not a spiritual camp.

[00:44:04] Fasting is always optional and health dependent.

[00:44:08] So I guarantee it to, I guess it's like, hey, you know, you do your show and shit, but we tell you not to fast and not have communication.

[00:44:16] Yeah, I don't know.

[00:44:18] I mean, I just looked at their website.

[00:44:19] It comes across as a spiritual camp to me.

[00:44:22] Maybe in the fine print, they say, you know, I'm not a spiritual camp.

[00:44:24] I mean, notwithstanding everything we tell you above, this is not a spiritual camp.

[00:44:29] And although everyone else won't have any food, you're permitted to bring all the foods you want.

[00:44:35] I mean, you know, I didn't see that stuff on their page, but I think they probably should have monitored these people who placed their trust in them a little closer.

[00:44:49] But thank goodness, Mrs. Chase made it out of the woods.

[00:44:54] Yeah. Yeah. So thank you.

[00:44:58] Once again, to our search and rescue volunteers for for kicking ass over in Colorado and, you know, around the Northeast and everywhere actually.

[00:45:07] So all right, so thank you to the monthly supporters, Darren White, Vicki Freer, Mike Salkowski, who's a new monthly supporter.

[00:45:15] Thank you very much.

[00:45:16] John C. Betty Anderson, Denise Weiss, Vanessa Joseph, Jim C. and Michael.

[00:45:22] Thank you guys very much for supporting the show.

[00:45:24] So I want to go into our sponsors that are awesome.

[00:45:28] And once again, most of these sponsors are making awesome donations to the Catskills and area around there.

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[00:46:31] So all inclusive Catskills Wilderness First Aid Weekend November 15 through 17.

[00:46:37] They do a 15% off early bird special coupon.

[00:46:41] So get ahold of me if you want to do this.

[00:46:43] Awesome time the Ross Frally YMCA.

[00:46:46] This includes official Wilderness First Aid and two year certification, lodging in group cabins, all meals provided and after dinner activities in campfire.

[00:46:56] So get ahold of me if you want to reserve this spot.

[00:47:02] So I wanted to do a new thing, Ted.

[00:47:06] All right, all right. We're getting pretty boring with what we have. So let's let's do something new.

[00:47:11] What about gear talk?

[00:47:13] No, how about stumped tad?

[00:47:15] No, no, never, never.

[00:47:17] Gear talk.

[00:47:18] So one of my friends, Henry from another summit introduced me to this and I haven't gotten any yet, but I'm really looking to get to it.

[00:47:27] It's called the Kestrel Wind Speed and Wind Chill Calculator.

[00:47:32] So you put it on your pack at times when you're in the area, you can put this out, hold it up and it'll calculate the temperature and then it'll calculate the wind speed, the wind chill calculator.

[00:47:47] So it, you know, sometimes when you're sitting on a summit that's 30 mile or 30 degrees and then you have 20 mile per hour winds, it'll calculate the wind chill and make you basically appreciate that you're kind of warm in this absolute insane type of weather circumstances.

[00:48:07] What do you think?

[00:48:09] Oh, I don't know. I guess, I guess if you're a gear hound, it's a little too much information.

[00:48:17] Too late, frankly, because once you're up there knowing that the temperature corrected for the wind speed, the wind chill is minus X doesn't do you a lot of good if you don't have the right clothing to go with that.

[00:48:33] Right?

[00:48:35] Correct.

[00:48:35] Yeah, I've been on sailboats where stuff like this has been used and it's critical data on the sailboat hiking, particularly in the cats.

[00:48:47] But it's not high on my list. I'm searching for a new pair of winter boots. It seems like an endless quest for me.

[00:48:57] So comment if you have winter boots that you'd like to add to wear.

[00:49:01] Yeah, I don't want to wear your boots.

[00:49:05] My boots are awesome. Merrell's.

[00:49:07] Merrell?

[00:49:08] Are they insulated?

[00:49:10] Yes.

[00:49:11] What a proof too.

[00:49:12] I've seen those. I have an old pair of winter boots. This would be, I don't know, like their seventh season. I can't imagine getting rid of them but they start to look, they look like they have some tears in them and I'm concerned that I'm going to get wet feet.

[00:49:27] It's not even tears. I'm more concerned with the traction.

[00:49:32] Yeah, well with the traction you just put on spikes. And I'll say this, my-

[00:49:37] Yeah but during the wet times of spring and fall.

[00:49:41] Yeah, but when it's wet out then I'm not wearing insulated boots. I'm going to wear another pair of boots.

[00:49:45] I only wear the insulated ones typically when the bootlaces are going to be in the snow or deeper.

[00:49:53] But when it's like hard pack or there's no snow on the ground I'm not going to wear the insulated ones unless it's really, really cold.

[00:50:01] But these ones have, you know, they've seen some use. They've other than some, like looks like tears inside them. They've held up really well but they don't make them anymore so.

[00:50:12] Yeah exactly. That's a whole fucking thing.

[00:50:15] Yeah.

[00:50:15] It's like you love this thing and then all of a sudden they're just like, hey we're coming out with a new brand.

[00:50:20] Yeah. I have this, my winter pack is, I'm not joking, is almost 30 years old.

[00:50:27] Congratulations. That's phenomenal.

[00:50:29] Yeah well you know it's kind of like reused recycle. I mean back when I bought this thing nobody was making anything like or wasn't least mass producing recycled stuff but now I look at this thing and it's like I've had it so long and it's got so many miles on it that might as well be 100% recycled because it's been around quite some time.

[00:50:49] I mean, asprey?

[00:50:51] No. It's an old camelback that I bought, you know, way back when I was doing a ton of mountain biking and when I say a ton of mountain biking I would wear this pack in at the beginning of the day to just pack in water because when you would be out riding for hours upon hours you wouldn't be able to carry enough water with you so I had this 30 plus liter pack that I would just ride in with a bunch of waters in it and stash them around.

[00:51:18] I would just put it on the woods where I rode and pick them up as the day went on.

[00:51:23] So nice.

[00:51:24] Well, good luck.

[00:51:26] So comment on this post that I do about this episode and see what Tatcha wear.

[00:51:33] Yeah, give me your boot suggestions.

[00:51:35] Yeah, I'm curious because you know I've always gone with Merrill everything so yeah.

[00:51:43] So mentions Joe Kapovsky.

[00:51:46] Kapovsky, is that how you say it went to Harriman State Park and did some hiking over there?

[00:51:51] So thank you Joe.

[00:51:52] Once again, you mentioned the podcast we'll talk about you and your hikes.

[00:51:56] Then one thing I can't say is that Joe that it came up so I got to find it again.

[00:52:03] So thank you Joe for tagging us and such.

[00:52:06] Also, if you donate a copy that will go towards the show and towards the Catskills.

[00:52:12] We made a pretty significant amount of donations in the past six months towards the Catskills with the Catskills Center and the friends of the Feathered in 3.

[00:52:22] So thank you once again everybody for doing what you do for the Catskills.

[00:52:27] Yeah, I'm checking out Joe's feed right now.

[00:52:31] Sadly it looks like he's a Metz fan but we won't hold that against Joe.

[00:52:36] We love you even though you've been to one Metz game too many.

[00:52:41] What happened to her friend Pinkpony?

[00:52:46] She's not mentioning us anymore.

[00:52:48] Yeah, she was talking all about us and then all of a sudden it was just and it's gone.

[00:52:54] Oh well.

[00:52:56] So Joe.

[00:52:58] Yeah, thanks Joe.

[00:52:59] Really appreciate it.

[00:53:00] So once again, coffees mentions.

[00:53:02] We'll talk about you on the show.

[00:53:04] Coffee will go towards the show and go towards the Catskills.

[00:53:06] Really appreciate it.

[00:53:08] Ted, what are you drinking tonight?

[00:53:10] I am drinking just to do something completely unusual and unexpected.

[00:53:17] I have a cup of hot coffee here.

[00:53:22] I'm expected.

[00:53:24] Yeah, that's what I normally have.

[00:53:25] I'm sorry.

[00:53:25] Maybe I was almost going to have a beer tonight but I decided to pass.

[00:53:30] Later on.

[00:53:31] Next Tuesday night, I'll have a couple in memory of the show.

[00:53:36] Thanks a lot.

[00:53:37] Really appreciate it.

[00:53:39] So tonight I'm having an awestruck hometown homicider.

[00:53:43] So we're celebrating even though it's a little premature fall hometown homicider with a little kind of spooky season stuff.

[00:53:53] Yeah.

[00:53:53] Well, you say it's a little premature.

[00:53:55] It's apple picking season in the Hudson Valley.

[00:53:57] True.

[00:53:58] It is up here too.

[00:54:00] So it's.

[00:54:02] Yeah.

[00:54:02] Enjoying it.

[00:54:03] All right.

[00:54:04] So Ted, chat about your previous hikes.

[00:54:07] Okay.

[00:54:08] Well, I'm going to take a pee real quick.

[00:54:10] Okay.

[00:54:11] So while Stash steps out of the room, I'm going to go.

[00:54:14] I'm stepping into monologue mode here.

[00:54:18] As I said before, on Saturday, I had been planning on doing a hike over in the Catskills, but I called an audible on the way over.

[00:54:29] And I headed to the gunks and did a 17 and a half mile hike around Minowasca State Park hitting both of the lakes like Minowasa and Lake Awasing state on the carriage trails nursing a sore knee.

[00:54:48] And had a lot of fun.

[00:54:51] Stash is still outside of the room, so I don't know what else to add to this other than it was really foggy.

[00:54:57] The fog was rising, so it wasn't really a good day to take photographs or see the views from the ridge.

[00:55:04] But I was able to get out and do a ton of hiking on Saturday.

[00:55:14] And now we'll have a long moment of silence in honor of Stash.

[00:55:18] I think he's walking his dogs right now.

[00:55:21] What happened?

[00:55:23] Well, I didn't have much to say it was kind of a simple hike in the gunks.

[00:55:28] Nothing all that exciting already clued into the people.

[00:55:32] I mean, it's just kind of interesting to see the diverse range and scope of people that you come across hiking that much in the gunks.

[00:55:45] How many people do you think you saw?

[00:55:46] Oh, I don't know.

[00:55:48] I mean, sometimes in the Catskills it's easy to keep track of how many people you see in the gunks.

[00:55:53] I will say over the course of 17 and a half miles, I did not see a single person probably for the first seven or eight miles because I hike in from what I'm going to call the backside of the park and hike up into it and then start heading towards Lake Minowasa.

[00:56:11] And that's where you start to see people.

[00:56:13] So you go through a period of time where you see absolutely no one, you have the place to yourself.

[00:56:18] And then as you get closer to Lake Minowasa, you start seeing more and more people to the point where it's almost like a parade of people coming into the park.

[00:56:27] And like I said, you feel a little odd or at least I feel a little odd because I had planned on hiking in the Catskills.

[00:56:33] So I had my pack ready for a Catskill hike and it's way overkill for the gunks.

[00:56:42] And literally you're going by the people that are just carrying a pole or spring water.

[00:56:46] But there's one guy who I came upon.

[00:56:49] He was hiking out when I was hiking back from Minowasa to Lake Galasin.

[00:56:53] I came up behind this fellow who was probably at that point, you know, four and a half miles or so from the parking lot where I assume he parked.

[00:57:03] And he had nothing.

[00:57:05] He had no backpack.

[00:57:06] He had no water.

[00:57:08] Nothing.

[00:57:09] Just hiking.

[00:57:10] Yeah, just hiking by himself.

[00:57:12] So brief chat with him and I moved on and continued my hike back to my trusty Jeep and got home early.

[00:57:23] It's kind of weird for me when I can go into a 17 and a half mile hike five miles from my house.

[00:57:30] Usually I'm like, you know, in my Jeep at least an hour to an hour and a half or two going up to the Catskills.

[00:57:38] But not this past Saturday.

[00:57:41] So it was a break, something different.

[00:57:45] Wow.

[00:57:46] I'll say if you've never been to the gunk, you ought to go there at least once.

[00:57:51] There's a lot of different things to see.

[00:57:54] And like I did, you can do just a simple hike on really groomed trails where you can get into stuff that's a lot more rough approaching, you know, technical scrambling.

[00:58:05] And it's immensely scenic.

[00:58:09] You want to talk about the views, the views are for miles.

[00:58:12] Yeah.

[00:58:13] I can only imagine.

[00:58:14] I haven't been there yet.

[00:58:16] That's worth it.

[00:58:17] Worth the trip.

[00:58:17] Come on over.

[00:58:18] I'll supply the awestruck.

[00:58:20] You bring your marbles and your 85 pound backpack.

[00:58:25] No problem.

[00:58:26] No problem at all.

[00:58:28] I will all over.

[00:58:29] Speaking of overkill, you know, we talked about previous hikes.

[00:58:32] So I didn't do anything Tuesday, which was when I usually hike.

[00:58:36] I slept in and I slept like 10 hours.

[00:58:38] It was fantastic.

[00:58:39] I felt absolutely insane, like crazy good, good to catch up.

[00:58:46] But on Sunday, Jessica wanted to go out and she wanted to do a short hike.

[00:58:50] So I suggested mine kill falls over in Gilboa up in the northern Catskill areas are good.

[00:58:57] You know, it's.

[00:59:00] It definitely isn't a secluded waterfall.

[00:59:02] It's very popular and we got there at kind of the right time where there was a good flow

[00:59:10] of people out and there wasn't flow of people in.

[00:59:13] And it's probably not even a quarter of a mile hike down.

[00:59:17] You get a platform overlooking the top of the falls and then you can hike down

[00:59:22] to the bottom of the falls and mine kill falls is definitely kind of different.

[00:59:26] There's a big cascading wide 10 foot waterfall at the base.

[00:59:31] And then if you angle yourself right, you can see the tears.

[00:59:34] There's like four different tears and it's beautiful.

[00:59:37] Very easy, awesome stuff.

[00:59:39] And you know, instantly I get down to the bottom and I told Jessica,

[00:59:43] I'm fucking looking for fossils because I remember of our chat with what was it?

[00:59:51] The woman from the museum.

[00:59:54] Yeah, that's how I'll remember her.

[00:59:55] Yeah, who does all the murals.

[00:59:57] Yeah.

[00:59:58] And I was just like, I'm looking for fossils.

[01:00:01] So Jessica actually started looking for fossils with me and she found several.

[01:00:06] She found like three or four in small, small tiny rocks like the size of your figure.

[01:00:10] Oh yeah.

[01:00:11] If you guys take them home.

[01:00:14] No.

[01:00:15] Mm hmm.

[01:00:16] Mm hmm.

[01:00:17] Yeah.

[01:00:18] I pay taxes.

[01:00:19] That's part of my state.

[01:00:20] Yeah.

[01:00:21] You just plead the theft to say I'm taking the fifth on the advice of council.

[01:00:26] I'm taking the fifth.

[01:00:28] That's okay.

[01:00:29] Pleading the theft, but we came across of course a lot of Karen's.

[01:00:34] It's a popular place.

[01:00:36] So I decided to take those Karen's down.

[01:00:39] Of course.

[01:00:40] And there's a big sign that says, that says do not build Karen's.

[01:00:46] It destroys the ecosystem, you know, salamanders, frogs, different kind of animals and stuff.

[01:00:54] And this was right in front of it.

[01:00:56] So I decided to destroy it right in front of it and I got a lot of criticism on Instagram when I posted it.

[01:01:03] Yeah.

[01:01:03] You know, I don't care, but if you've ever been to an area kind of out west that's more popular and such like that,

[01:01:12] you will see that this is an absolute insane problem that it just one person will build it.

[01:01:18] Like I said on my post, it's Lincoln Park.

[01:01:22] It starts with one and then all of a sudden it fucking explodes.

[01:01:26] Yeah.

[01:01:26] I mean, you know, where does it stop?

[01:01:29] One person builds one then another one builds one and then, you know, I remember one year hiking up to a Washing Falls

[01:01:37] and you get there and there was 50, 60 Karen's.

[01:01:42] Yeah.

[01:01:42] It was just crazy how many had been built that summer.

[01:01:46] And, you know, as people built them over the course of the summer, they have to scavenger around because the rocks become scarcer and scarcer for them to pick up

[01:01:58] and carry over to where they're building their project.

[01:02:02] And you are not maybe with the first one or the first five, you're not making a significant change.

[01:02:09] But presumably at some point you've reached this tipping point where you are causing some type of change, disruption to that environment for the animals that live there.

[01:02:21] And it's also in my view, I don't care how good you are at building a Karen.

[01:02:27] They're nuts, you know, like scenic.

[01:02:30] Yeah, right.

[01:02:31] But the question be, I've been on some Bushwax in the Catskills where you run into them.

[01:02:37] A lot of them, you know, when they're not, you can't say that they're ancient.

[01:02:41] They're not the big, broad, tall rock piles like the ones you see near Hockett.

[01:02:48] But you'll find these ones that are just like, you know, one rock stacked on top of another upon another.

[01:02:55] And they've obviously been there for dozens of years.

[01:02:58] What do you do with those?

[01:02:59] Do you leave them?

[01:03:02] Because they're not art.

[01:03:04] Yeah, they're not art, but it's somebody, you know, way back when built them to track the way up a mountain.

[01:03:13] That's what I see it as more than these ones that have kind of like eight different directions and are 12 in an area.

[01:03:23] Jessica and I disassembled four of them before I disassembled that fifth one on just this little small waterfall area.

[01:03:32] So it was, it was just annoying.

[01:03:35] And Jessica gets it.

[01:03:37] She, you know, she's an artsy woman and she loves to see that kind of stuff.

[01:03:42] She's like, oh, this is cool.

[01:03:44] But with her seeing this when we went out west to Zion and to Sedona and stuff.

[01:03:50] She's like, okay, then this is getting really annoying.

[01:03:54] And she's seen it like that, of course, in different areas.

[01:03:58] So yeah, I guess, you know, if I, if I were to go there and build a Karen out of Polar Spring water bottles and, and, you know, red bull cans and monster cans.

[01:04:15] Would you leave it in place?

[01:04:17] Right.

[01:04:18] Exactly.

[01:04:19] Would a Karen lover look at my creation, albeit not made out of natural things but consider it worthy of letting it remain out there?

[01:04:28] I mean, you know, it's leave no traces, leave no trace.

[01:04:33] Exactly.

[01:04:34] And, you know, once you get, I hate to say it, once you get older and once you get like wiser with the trails and stuff like that, you start to respect that a little bit more leave no trace.

[01:04:44] At first, you know, I was like, you know, it's screen leave no trace.

[01:04:47] I'll wear cotton.

[01:04:48] I'll wear my exodus shirt, you know, to do this.

[01:04:52] But then I'm like, damn, you know, it's actually a really good principle to follow.

[01:04:57] Yeah.

[01:04:58] Well, if everyone broke the rules, just think, you know, when you, when you would go out to these places, what would it look like?

[01:05:06] You know, what that fellow did a couple of years ago up on Hunter at the lean to spray painting.

[01:05:12] Oh, yeah.

[01:05:14] The rock and the lean to and he pointed out and he made a good point afterwards when he went up there to try to remove his spray painted graffiti.

[01:05:25] He did this little video where he showed how people over the years had carved their names and other things into the lean to.

[01:05:36] And yeah, he was right.

[01:05:38] People did that and they were defacing that lean to.

[01:05:42] And so in some respects, it was no different than what he did to it.

[01:05:47] But sell them.

[01:05:48] That's that day.

[01:05:49] Yeah, but seldom do two wrongs make a right.

[01:05:52] You know, so just because all these other people did it doesn't mean you should get away with it.

[01:05:57] And, you know, when one of the carvings was like, you know, T. M. and B. C. inside of a heart, you know, nobody's going to track down those people.

[01:06:11] He just happened to tattoo this place with his social media tag and it kind of made him easy bait.

[01:06:20] And then the funny part of that story, I don't know if you remember this is once he started getting trashed on social media, he decided to drive back up there.

[01:06:27] Yeah.

[01:06:28] Oh yeah, I had I had the ADK police on here about that.

[01:06:31] Yeah.

[01:06:32] And so he's he's driving back and he thinks that he's doing a video of himself driving up this road.

[01:06:37] And doing the right.

[01:06:39] Yeah, but he's driving up a ski slope at Hunter Mountain and get stuck in the snow.

[01:06:43] Do you remember that?

[01:06:45] 100% is fantastic.

[01:06:47] Yeah.

[01:06:47] So the DEC comes along and gives him a tow right down to, you know, the local constable where he was arraigned for a misdemeanor or something.

[01:06:57] And then later on because of freaking COVID, he got like denied the charges.

[01:07:01] I was so pissed off at that.

[01:07:03] Yeah, he had to do community service.

[01:07:05] He did.

[01:07:05] Yeah.

[01:07:06] All right.

[01:07:06] So it was like 50, 60 hours at the local transfer station.

[01:07:10] Yeah.

[01:07:11] So next we went up to started to push you on very close.

[01:07:17] We went up to the upper reservoir and the Skihari Reservoir and checked out the mountains had a nice little picnic up there.

[01:07:23] They have a bench.

[01:07:24] They have a Porter John up there at both ends.

[01:07:27] Absolutely phenomenal area.

[01:07:29] You get the Northern Catskills go to the upper Skihari Reservoir, totally accessible to anybody and everybody.

[01:07:36] You can go around the fence and it'll be fantastic for you to look at the mountains over towards the Northern Catskills.

[01:07:44] But you can see part of like Hunter Mountain and Blackhead if you go far enough.

[01:07:49] So yeah, absolutely phenomenal.

[01:07:52] Good times.

[01:07:53] Good times.

[01:07:54] I'm glad we both got out beautiful weekend, right?

[01:07:57] Yeah.

[01:07:57] The weather was fantastic.

[01:07:59] Yeah.

[01:08:00] Absolutely phenomenal.

[01:08:01] So once again, volunteer 3500 Club Catskill Trail Crew Catskill Mountains Club visitors center, Jolly Rovers Trail Crew, Barely Mountain Fire Tower volunteers as much as you can.

[01:08:12] Also, if you want to get stickers, send a message to me or go to Cam Catskill, which I heard that that they need more stickers.

[01:08:20] So I got to send them more stickers, which is absolutely insane because I didn't know that many people knew about the podcast.

[01:08:26] So how about the weather forecast?

[01:08:31] So this Friday, I'm looking at Hawcat, Hawcat, Hawcat, whatever.

[01:08:36] What do you say?

[01:08:37] Hawcat.

[01:08:38] Hawcat.

[01:08:39] Hawcat.

[01:08:41] Yeah, everybody says Hawcat now.

[01:08:43] I think it's trending.

[01:08:44] Well, if you want to confirm what the correct pronunciation is, all the town clerk in the town of Hawcat, show the answer of the phone.

[01:08:54] Hawcat Center.

[01:08:55] Yeah.

[01:08:55] Yeah.

[01:08:56] You're right.

[01:08:56] They'll set you straight.

[01:08:58] Yeah.

[01:08:58] So the forecast on Hawcat this Friday, which is when it will be released, will be a high of 61, a low of 57, which is not bad.

[01:09:09] I got to admit that's not bad.

[01:09:11] Beautiful.

[01:09:11] 61 is perfect like any other.

[01:09:15] Clear skies.

[01:09:16] And then Saturday, light rain, rain showers in the morning, a high of only 54, but a low of 36 at the nighttime.

[01:09:24] So we're getting down.

[01:09:25] We're getting the nitty gritty.

[01:09:27] Sunday looks like a beautiful, fantastically clear skies, only a high of 52 and a low of 34 down into the nighttime.

[01:09:38] But the wind is only going to be around 10 to 5 miles, 5 to 10 miles per hour.

[01:09:44] So it looks to be absolutely phenomenal.

[01:09:49] So yeah, we'll do the last set of sponsor.

[01:09:51] Then we'll get on to the guests tonight.

[01:09:52] That sounds good.

[01:09:53] Sounds excellent.

[01:09:55] Excellent.

[01:09:56] So discover Camp Catskill in Tannersville, your ultimate hiking store.

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[01:10:58] Sarah was on the previous episode.

[01:11:00] She was great.

[01:11:01] Fantastic.

[01:11:02] So also embark on a transformative journey with another summit.

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[01:11:32] So also before we go with John, I want to say that I'm doing the one mile challenge

[01:11:39] for a guardian revival for veterans and first responders.

[01:11:42] So if you want to donate, look online at my Facebook and Instagram

[01:11:47] and you can donate through there for veterans and first responders.

[01:11:51] I do one mile challenge each day and every day.

[01:11:55] So, yeah.

[01:12:12] You can also check daily updates of the podcast, hikes, hiking news and local news on Facebook,

[01:12:21] Instagram, Twitter and the official website of the show.

[01:12:26] Remember this.

[01:12:28] You got to just keep on living in the Catskills man.

[01:12:32] L-I-V-I-N.

[01:12:35] Wicked, wicked, wicked.

[01:12:38] Wicked.