Episode 125 - Bee from Recoveryhike

[00:00:00] So it breaks us down, we become five year olds again.

[00:00:03] We become, you know, we can become children again. You can be 50 years old and

[00:00:07] and you know have been addicted to heroin for 35 years, you know?

[00:00:13] And I've seen people, they look at a red F'd like for the first time and they're just like

[00:00:21] like freaking out. They're like, oh my god, can I pick it up? It's like no, no, no, let's not pick it up, you know?

[00:00:28] There are reasons for this, but let's look at it, like let's explore what this little critter is doing.

[00:00:34] And it's amazing. And that's really become my recovery path is to

[00:00:42] my purpose is to serve others in that fashion is to bring curiosity to them.

[00:00:51] But the format of recovery hike is that, you know, we go on these, you know, I wouldn't even call them hikes.

[00:00:59] They're more like strolls because we need to be inclusive for everyone.

[00:01:02] Not everybody can hike Slide Mountain, you know?

[00:01:06] And not everybody who can hike Slide Mountain wants to hike Slide Mountain.

[00:01:11] So it's just about getting people in nature.

[00:01:15] The Bushwacks were some of the worst days I've ever had in the mountains.

[00:01:27] Or life, really.

[00:01:29] Whereas Pansy Mountain is totally opposite. It's a mountain on top of a crater.

[00:01:35] I think the weather challenges on this incident were particularly difficult.

[00:01:41] It is really the development of New York State.

[00:01:44] Catskills were responsible.

[00:01:47] Yeah!

[00:01:49] You're listening to Inside the Live.

[00:01:55] The Catskill Mountains podcast.

[00:02:02] Jesus!

[00:02:04] Air conditioner had to come on today.

[00:02:06] Did you guys have your air conditioners on today?

[00:02:08] No, I don't use them.

[00:02:10] Yeah, my wife started a few days ago.

[00:02:12] Oh my God. It's like 84 degrees here.

[00:02:16] It's got to be humid as heck down there.

[00:02:18] No, it's not humid. The weather is pleasant.

[00:02:22] And compared to what we have to come, there's nothing to complain about.

[00:02:28] I see it's 80 degrees right now.

[00:02:31] Sunny. Tomorrow is going to be another beautiful day.

[00:02:34] No rain in the forecast until next week in the Hudson Valley.

[00:02:38] Yeah.

[00:02:40] Brian, what was it like down towards you, sir?

[00:02:42] Pardon?

[00:02:44] What was it like down towards you? Where are you located?

[00:02:47] Currently, I'm in Connecticut actually.

[00:02:49] Nice. What was the weather like?

[00:02:51] The weather was nice and foggy this morning.

[00:02:55] And then it tipped about maybe mid 70s.

[00:02:59] Oh, lucky. Yeah, it's been an 80s up here.

[00:03:03] I live in Upstate, like the further north of Upstate in the Catskill.

[00:03:07] So that's pretty warm. It was a warm day.

[00:03:10] Yeah, I typically live near Elizaville.

[00:03:13] So but I work down here with my father from time to time.

[00:03:17] Oh, awesome. Awesome.

[00:03:19] So big shout out to Jack Walker for the amazing banner he made for the Catskill Expo on June 8th.

[00:03:26] So Ted and I will be there for the Catskill Expo down in the Catskill Visitors Center on June 8th.

[00:03:32] Can add a bunch of vendors there, a bunch of different varieties of people there.

[00:03:37] You know, Bob, I know there's another podcast there called Catscast Podcast.

[00:03:42] He's a pretty cool dude. And you know, a bunch of vendors is going to be down there.

[00:03:46] So Jack, really appreciate you with this walk, this banner.

[00:03:50] It's it's it's I got to admit it's something else.

[00:03:54] So it's definitely going to blow some minds.

[00:03:57] It's worth showing up just to see the banner.

[00:03:59] Exactly. That's probably the only reason why he showed up.

[00:04:03] So so so we will talk about, of course, you know, Catskill, that's about the Catskill.

[00:04:09] So there is a proposed resort supposedly going in Cairo.

[00:04:14] How do you say that again, Ted? How do you say that?

[00:04:16] Cairo, Cairo, Cairo.

[00:04:19] OK, so in Cairo, that would have mark of value of three hundred and thirty million dollars.

[00:04:25] So this place would be at the old Blackhead Resort

[00:04:30] that used to be towards the east of Blackhead Mountain.

[00:04:35] And a lot of people, of course, are opposed to it because it's absolutely crazy and insane.

[00:04:41] And there is a bunch of.

[00:04:46] Mumbled like like a bunch of bashering going around saying, you know, this isn't worth it, stuff like that.

[00:04:52] So the proposed project encompasses three parcels totaling one hundred and two acres

[00:04:58] that have a current combined market value of three point million, two million and an assets value of one point three million.

[00:05:05] And the property taxes are eight thousand six hundred ninety eight dollars for the county.

[00:05:10] Eleven thousand dollars for the town and thirty one thousand dollars for the school.

[00:05:14] So this is going to be bumping up every tax available in the area.

[00:05:20] And when if the resort does get put up, it will be a market value of three hundred thirty million with an assessed value of one hundred and thirty four million.

[00:05:29] And just reading some of this stuff alone about the the area that would be would be going up,

[00:05:38] would take the combined market value of six more marks, six lows, six minimals, six banks of Green County,

[00:05:45] six Mavis discount, Kyler tires, six Burger Kings.

[00:05:49] And it would still be eighteen million dollars short.

[00:05:53] So this project also calls for the removal of existing 18 old golf course that is still functioning right now.

[00:06:02] I've actually hiked down through there when I've gone through the Blackhead range kind of literally.

[00:06:10] Of course, but eighty seven new buildings accommodate one hundred and twenty seven

[00:06:16] units along with ninety one thousand square foot main lodge spa and resort.

[00:06:22] So absolutely crazy.

[00:06:26] Sounds like a headache. Exactly.

[00:06:29] Ted, what are your thoughts, buddy? Well, I don't know.

[00:06:32] B is it's hard to follow up B. He's kind of summed it up in a word or two.

[00:06:37] I think it comes down for the locals whether or not this is intended to be for residential year round use

[00:06:44] where folks are going to be bringing in school age children and they're going to bump up the need to accommodate

[00:06:50] those children in the local public school districts.

[00:06:54] Or is this a second home market where it's not going to have an impact on the local schools

[00:07:00] and the other impacts will be a little more minimal.

[00:07:04] It could generate some economic revenue for the local area or it could be a big burden on the local area.

[00:07:13] I don't think the article gave too much to educate us on that.

[00:07:19] Yeah, so if you know the Blackhead area to the kind of like east of the Blackhead Arizona mountain area

[00:07:27] when you're doing the escarpment trail, there is the infamous I'm not sure what the golf course is called,

[00:07:35] but I think it's the Blackhead or it's something around the Blackhead golf course.

[00:07:40] Right. I think the name's the forgotten name golf course.

[00:07:45] It's over there at Winter Clove, isn't it? Yes. See, Brian knows his shit.

[00:07:51] I've been trying to find out the name of it, but I know it's a highly looked at golf course.

[00:07:56] A lot of people love that golf course.

[00:07:59] And I've hiked through there when I did Arizona Mountain and I pushed back down through Arizona Mountain to check a plane crash.

[00:08:06] But once again, you got to ask for that. So it's called.

[00:08:09] Of course, it doesn't have the name on. Yeah, of course, I'm looking at it right now.

[00:08:15] It's right along the shingle kill.

[00:08:17] But so this would bring a huge crazy amount of I mean, taxes burden upon the local residents.

[00:08:24] But, you know, it's kind of like.

[00:08:27] Is it are we in those times of the Borsch Belt Times where it's just like build, build, build and see what happens?

[00:08:34] All right. Well, I think statistically, the local Catskill region has seen a lot of second home building and with remote work,

[00:08:43] it's also seeing a lot of folks getting out then out of the New York metro area,

[00:08:48] and they're able to come up to the Catskills, other rural areas and increasing the demand on local housing.

[00:08:55] But like I said, I wasn't all that clear from the article because it says it's a proposed mega resort.

[00:09:06] Yeah. So that seems to mean it's not intended for year round residential use.

[00:09:12] Maybe it'll be beneficial because it'll lessen the demand on short term Airbnb rentals.

[00:09:18] And so people who want to live and work locally will be able to, you know,

[00:09:24] get those houses at a more competitive price because they're not competing with folks who want to buy houses for Airbnbs.

[00:09:32] But it remains to be seen times are changing. Yeah. What about you, B?

[00:09:39] Certainly, I guess 22. I mean, I've traveled all over the world and I keep coming back to the Hudson Valley

[00:09:47] because it literally is one of the greatest places to live in the world.

[00:09:51] And one of those reasons is because we have a incredibly strong economy due to our proximity to New York City

[00:10:02] and the second and third homes of those people.

[00:10:06] I've done a lot of landscaping and carpentry in that area,

[00:10:10] and I can see there's a major difference between Western New York and the Adirondacks

[00:10:16] compared to the economy of the Hudson Valley based on the fact that we have New York City

[00:10:25] and those folks who want to come up and enjoy being in the Catskills.

[00:10:30] Being so close to New York City, the Catskills are a place where they can go for their vacation, for just their downtime.

[00:10:42] Now, I mean, unfortunately it prices us out.

[00:10:47] You know, the people who live here actually live here and work here, it prices us out in a lot of ways.

[00:10:54] I'll never forget selling a tomato for $24 because it was $4 a pound.

[00:11:03] It was a huge tomato. It was one of those big Cherokee blacks, you know, and that person was excited to spend that.

[00:11:10] But could you afford that?

[00:11:12] Not at all.

[00:11:14] You know, but those people bring up and they strengthen our economy.

[00:11:20] It is a catch-22.

[00:11:24] And 2020 really changed a lot of things for people because all of a sudden they had nothing to do but go outside

[00:11:37] for the first time in a long time.

[00:11:40] Just go out there, explore nature and that also is going to build Hudson Valley's economy even stronger.

[00:11:51] So we look at places like out west where the ski resort towns are just enormous out of Denver or any places like that.

[00:12:04] You see that these small little towns couldn't survive without that tourist economy.

[00:12:16] As much as I hate to see those folks coming up and doing stupid stuff in nature and the what have you, we need them.

[00:12:31] A big question. Yeah, yeah.

[00:12:33] I mean, very, very good point.

[00:12:37] Very good point, B.

[00:12:39] I mean, what the hell?

[00:12:41] Whatever. So, Ted, you like, I mean, great points, B, of course, you know, the economy is great for the Catskills.

[00:12:48] That's what we need.

[00:12:49] That's what we had back in the 60s and 70s with the borsch belt and stuff like that.

[00:12:53] So maybe it's blooming once again.

[00:12:55] So, Ted, you had something about the the Gunks had a similar time, right?

[00:13:00] Oh, yeah.

[00:13:01] So it's a reoccurring theme in the Hudson Valley and the upstate area where these old scenic lands or historically scenic lands become the target of developers.

[00:13:14] So leading up to March 2006, there was a big push in the SchwanGunk Ridge by a local developer and some outside residents to develop 2518 acres of land, which literally would be highly visible as you look upon the SchwanGunk Ridge from the Hudson Valley.

[00:13:41] And there was tremendous local opposition.

[00:13:44] You'd ride through the area, you would see people with signs and banners that would say, save the ridge is an example.

[00:13:52] So through a variety of factors, the local opposition was relatively successful.

[00:13:58] They slowed down the project.

[00:14:00] The developers started running into cost problems because it was taking so long to get their approvals.

[00:14:06] Eventually, the Trust for Public Land and the Open Space Institute bought the land for 17 million dollars and then flipped it to the state of New York.

[00:14:19] What had been proposed was 349 homes and a 296 acre golf course.

[00:14:27] And like I said, it would have been very transformative of the SchwanGunk Ridge.

[00:14:32] If you follow my Instagram page, you'll see I post a lot of pictures of my cycling around the Walk Hill Valley, which is right on the toe of the slope of the SchwanGunk Ridge.

[00:14:45] And it's very scenic.

[00:14:46] Open Space Institute, I believe puts it in their top 25 list of places, most scenic places in the world.

[00:14:55] So it gets high ranking by them and kudos to them and the Trust for Public Lands and writing that check, 17 million dollars to preserve it.

[00:15:08] It's an interesting story.

[00:15:09] You ought to look into it sometimes, Stas.

[00:15:11] The fellow who started accumulating all that land was a Princeton graduate.

[00:15:15] I think in the 1950s, he might have gone to Princeton with the same fellow who was developing Bear Pen, who was also a Princeton graduate.

[00:15:26] But this guy Bradley, who would come up one summer to the SchwanGunk Ridge, fell in love with the area and slowly started accumulating the land in the 50s.

[00:15:38] And as it says here, by 2006, he had thousands of acres.

[00:15:44] And he sold it back to the state?

[00:15:48] Well, yeah.

[00:15:49] I mean, when you really do the deep dive, you'll see that he and his outside venture capitalist started having financial struggles, which resulted in infighting amongst themselves.

[00:16:02] And they were having trouble making payments.

[00:16:07] And the Open Space Institute steps in and starts to negotiate with them.

[00:16:14] And that's one of the benefits of having organizations like Open Space Institute and the Trust for Public Land is because they're able to take swifter action than the state of New York would be able to take and coming in and funding an acquisition like this.

[00:16:29] And it's what they've done.

[00:16:31] I mean, they've recently acquired other lands than the Catskills.

[00:16:35] They've acquired other lands in the SchwanGunk Ridge.

[00:16:39] And I'll say if you haven't been over to the SchwanGunk Ridge, you ought to come over here.

[00:16:46] And in addition to entering Minnewaska or Mohonk from the traditional and more widely known access areas, the Awasing Reserve is the portion of the park which was acquired, the 2,518 acres that was acquired by the Trust for Public Land and Open Space Institute.

[00:17:11] It's a good hike up into it, seldom used mainly by the locals, but it brings you right up to the Lake Awasing.

[00:17:20] And when I hike up there in the morning, I'm able to get into the back part of Minnewaska Park long before people who come in through the front gate that Minnewaska do.

[00:17:32] The beauty of doing this stuff early is just getting out there before anybody else gets out there.

[00:17:38] Yeah, and I didn't have to pay $17 million to have fun there.

[00:17:43] Exactly.

[00:17:45] Was that part of that fellow Bradley?

[00:17:48] Yeah, Bradley. His first name escapes me right now. He was quite a character. There's a lot of stories out there about him.

[00:17:56] John Bradley?

[00:17:57] Yeah, he was John. I worked for him for a little bit.

[00:18:01] Well, God bless you because I know a lot of these stories about John Bradley and his...did he have his yellow Jeep when you were working for him?

[00:18:11] No, he had a blue thing with yellow tags all over it. His wife had passed away in a car accident so he put reflective tape on all of his vehicles.

[00:18:27] Oh wow.

[00:18:28] Interesting character.

[00:18:30] Yeah, and that's a sad part of the story is back in the 70s his wife and their two twin boys were killed by a drunk driver.

[00:18:40] And so he raised his daughter part of the year at the Alwasing Reserve and she would tell stories about working at the State Park and driving her dad's yellow Jeep up this back access road to get to the Ranger Station at the park.

[00:19:01] Wow, crazy that said like we're all connected right here. Crazy, Brad. I repeat, it's crazy, Pete.

[00:19:08] Yeah, yeah. Recently his daughter tried to establish one of these glamping facilities there, erecting all of these hard domes along one of the ravines and the local town, the town of Gardiner shut her down because they took the position that it was a non-conforming,

[00:19:30] non-permitted use in the area so she spent a lot of money installing these structures and I think the decision was rendered last year by the local State Supreme Court that she no longer had the grandfathered status to develop that use of the property.

[00:19:48] Interesting.

[00:19:50] There's one hell of a lodge up there.

[00:19:52] Oh yeah, and there's the pool. There's the pool in front of the lodge.

[00:19:56] Yeah.

[00:19:57] Yeah, I'm very pleased to say that it's not even five minutes from my house and when I need a quick hike and I have nothing better to do I go to the Alwasing Reserve and it's a little paradise up there.

[00:20:11] Nice.

[00:20:12] Crazy. So recently, once again, removing dead bodies from Mount Everest is dangerous and expensive. I mean we should all if we're hikers we should all know this.

[00:20:26] Why? You know, by now we should know.

[00:20:30] A team of 12 Nepalese has stated that Mount Everest this month is to bring five dead bodies down from the peak.

[00:20:37] Recovered missions come with a stolen price tag and a heightened potential for disaster.

[00:20:43] Of course, we all know within these past, you know, 10-15 years of the amazing crazy increase of people wanting to summit Mount Everest, the tallest mountain in the world.

[00:20:56] And, you know, just a lot of people don't understand that this is not an overnight backpack that you could just do alone but a lot of people pay a lot of money.

[00:21:08] So in 2019, a Nepali mountaineer and rescue specialist named Jensmin Tamang led a team of six onto the 27,000 foot mountains to recover the body of a climber who had died in the so-called death zone above 26,000 feet.

[00:21:23] Now 26,000 feet above to 27,000 feet at the death zone and you camp below the death zone 26,000 feet.

[00:21:32] You make your summit push to the last day if you have the greatest weather.

[00:21:36] Now I've read books that people have camped out there two, three weeks just to get up to that summit and living on cliff bars and, you know, melted snow and stuff like that.

[00:21:48] It's just absolutely insane.

[00:21:50] And once again, recovering these bodies because of the weather, because of, you know, the time and effort that it takes to get these bodies off of Mount Everest.

[00:22:01] They say it's just impossible.

[00:22:03] And that's why people are left there all the time because it's just too much.

[00:22:10] It's too, too costly basically because flying a helicopter there, you know, you have to go from the base, not even the base of Mount Everest, but kind of I forgot what the town is called down below Mount Everest to the truck up to the base camp.

[00:22:27] But just doing all this work accumulates and the Sherpas, these people are not paid enough just to recover these bodies from Mount Everest.

[00:22:37] And there are hundreds and hundreds of people that they can't recover, but they try to at least recover some.

[00:22:43] But it's very gruesome.

[00:22:47] They say a lot of people were distressed by climbing up Mount Everest and seeing these bodies.

[00:22:54] But, you know, that's part of the reality.

[00:22:56] When you know you're climbing Mount Everest, you know, you're paying, I don't know what, 30 to 60 thousand dollars to someone at a peak and having people haul up stuff for you.

[00:23:06] But, you know, it says the mission and the price tag for the 2024 mission to be between seventy five thousand and eighty thousand dollars per body to rescue that body off of the body, to recover that body, not even say rescue that body.

[00:23:23] And to remove garbage from higher camps to exceed six hundred thousand dollars.

[00:23:29] So it's you know, I didn't understand of why they charged this much money to the climbing Mount Everest.

[00:23:39] But now I somewhat understand because I saw once we talked about this tab last last week of just a video I saw of some woman who got the base camp.

[00:23:49] And when she did like a panoramic view of her area, 75 percent of that was just old tents just sitting there decaying.

[00:23:59] And you know, I see a frickin like issue on the ground and I go absolutely insane and I just frickin go psycho.

[00:24:09] And this is just blows my mind.

[00:24:11] Well, not that it's an excuse, but when you're at that elevation, you know, just walking around can be tiring.

[00:24:19] So that the whole activity of hauling a body down the mountain to base camp is quite an effort.

[00:24:27] I imagine it's made somewhat easier because of the snow cover and your ability to slide somebody or drag somebody over the snow covered surface.

[00:24:37] But then there's a lot of, you know, obstacles, a lot of cliffs or walls they have to lower somebody down.

[00:24:45] So it is a lot of effort.

[00:24:47] Yeah.

[00:24:48] And I just I read that I have to wonder if my wife would pay eighty thousand dollars to have my body brought back if I perished on Mount Everest.

[00:24:58] Yeah, it's it's something something else that you that you think about when the Sherpas know below.

[00:25:10] I think it's below twenty set like twenty three thousand feet.

[00:25:13] They don't rescue anything because it's too much of a risk.

[00:25:16] It's too crazy. And then, you know, after after that, they might, you know, save the person.

[00:25:24] It depends on the group, I guess.

[00:25:26] That's what I've read. It depends on it sounds horrible.

[00:25:32] Still coming over this gold.

[00:25:34] It depends on how much the group paid for that person to be rescued off the mountain.

[00:25:40] And it just it blows my mind.

[00:25:43] I know Catskills four thousand foot peaks at around X, you know, they're pushing four thousand five hundred five thousand six thousand beats.

[00:25:52] And, you know, you got these twenty six thousand peaks where they're just like, yeah, sorry, you're kind of screwed.

[00:25:58] Yeah. So when I looked at this article that you put in the notes, I see that mountain climbers that climb Everest, the outfitters or the organizers that they climb with are required to have insurance.

[00:26:15] But the article said that most often they don't.

[00:26:19] It's unenforced.

[00:26:21] So that that would be a means to help subsidize the expense if not cover it entirely.

[00:26:29] But it's you know, it's a risk of doing that activity.

[00:26:34] And surely it's worthwhile for many reasons to get bodies off the mountainside.

[00:26:42] So crazy. So crazy.

[00:26:45] There's I read in the article that there's estimated to be more than two hundred bodies up there.

[00:26:53] Yeah, and they go the same route almost all the time.

[00:26:56] Yeah. So I know there's I talked about this a while ago that there's the cream boots guy.

[00:27:02] Yeah, I was just going to mention that.

[00:27:04] Every every person who goes up Mount Everest passes this guy because he's kind of under a ledge.

[00:27:10] His feet are exposed and you basically get a reality of what you're going to face if something bad goes wrong.

[00:27:18] You know, something bad happens and it just it blows my mind that you want to participate in this shit.

[00:27:27] Well, I forget what it is statistically, but the statistics are fairly substantial that you're going to die.

[00:27:35] I forget if it's one out of ten, one out of five.

[00:27:38] But it's it's a relatively high number.

[00:27:41] It's not like point oh one.

[00:27:44] Yeah, this is this is something that has a like a very tangible likelihood of death.

[00:27:52] Which is why some places should just be left sacred.

[00:27:56] Yeah, beings don't have to step on every terrestrial plane that is on this planet that we exist on.

[00:28:05] Yeah, and then you look at they have the I forget what they call it now, but there's just that like endless line of people waiting to get to the summit to take that summit selfie.

[00:28:17] So that's what it all boils down to.

[00:28:19] You're like you're you're out there for weeks.

[00:28:21] You're getting used to the climate.

[00:28:23] You're you're going up and down, up and down from one camp to the other to increase your level of acclimation.

[00:28:32] And then you make that final summit push.

[00:28:34] But as you get closer to the summit, you reach that point.

[00:28:37] I think they call it the death zone or just beyond it where you're basically standing there for hours waiting for that moment.

[00:28:45] And it's just like, wow, you went through all that effort for what?

[00:28:50] Just to stand in a line.

[00:28:52] Yeah, I mean, I've been at 30,000 feet in an airplane.

[00:28:56] Yeah, well, you have to be ready to go there multiple times.

[00:29:02] You say that, but apparently the Singapore airline today dropped in turbulence about seven thousand feet and one person died on board the plane and about 70 were injured.

[00:29:16] Yeah, he had a heart attack, I think.

[00:29:18] Oh really?

[00:29:19] That's the shit out of me.

[00:29:20] So yeah, right.

[00:29:22] But your likelihood of dying on Everest is probably higher than your likelihood of dying on an airplane.

[00:29:27] Definitely.

[00:29:29] Exactly.

[00:29:30] You know, I've never you know, the views are great.

[00:29:33] But, you know, after reading all these books, you know, suffering for five to six weeks of eating melted or drinking melted snow and cliff bars to possibly summit a highest mountain, I could never do that.

[00:29:48] Yes.

[00:29:49] So we'll take a 180 on this.

[00:29:51] And if you're going to lay out that kind of money and put that amount of physical effort and planning into something, why don't you go into an impoverished third world country community remote village and dig a well for somebody?

[00:30:07] Help build a clinic like a health facility for people, right?

[00:30:12] Something that is more lasting and brings, you know, hope and well-being to people as opposed to you put all this time and effort into do this very risky thing.

[00:30:27] And it's so transitory.

[00:30:29] You're up there for a few moments and then you descend.

[00:30:33] It's over.

[00:30:34] Whereas if you, if you went, if you went to some impoverished area and you built a clinic, you helped work on some water supply or sewer improvement.

[00:30:43] You know, any one of those basic things for that area, you're doing something that's more permanent, more lasting.

[00:30:50] Why don't we people, why don't people are more often I know people do this and they they brag about it or tell about it.

[00:30:56] But if that was really what was cherished versus, yeah, I climbed Mount Everest.

[00:31:01] What a, what a transformation that would be.

[00:31:05] Believe it or not, Ted, you could do that here in this country.

[00:31:07] Oh, yeah.

[00:31:08] Yes.

[00:31:09] Yes.

[00:31:10] There are plenty of places in this country that are third world.

[00:31:12] Yeah.

[00:31:13] Well, one of my personal causes that I get behind is working up donations and money to support your local food pantry.

[00:31:24] Because my view is in this country, we have the means and methods and we've had it for years to eliminate hunger in this country.

[00:31:35] Whereas it may be decades before we eliminate cancer and other medical illnesses.

[00:31:43] We can eliminate the pain and suffering that just causes is caused by something as basic as hunger.

[00:31:50] So one of the things I do throughout the year is, you know, informally raise money for a bunch of local food pantries.

[00:31:58] It's a little pet project of mine.

[00:32:00] Good man.

[00:32:01] Sounds great.

[00:32:02] Yeah.

[00:32:03] So that's why I don't climb Mount Everest is I'm giving my money to the local food pantry.

[00:32:08] I won't climb Mount Everest because there's no reason to.

[00:32:11] Yeah, because I don't want to die.

[00:32:14] So if I'm going to spend that kind of money, it's going to be like to the I couldn't even tell you honestly.

[00:32:22] Exactly right.

[00:32:24] You'd freaking just travel around the United States for years.

[00:32:27] Yeah.

[00:32:28] I mean, I've done that for years and I haven't even spent that kind of money doing it.

[00:32:32] Here here.

[00:32:36] There's a there's a world race that's going on right now and the entry fee is forty five thousand euro.

[00:32:42] All right.

[00:32:43] It's seven continent marathon in seven days.

[00:32:47] Wow.

[00:32:48] Well, unbelievable.

[00:32:49] And now I'm good.

[00:32:51] I'm good where I'm at.

[00:32:52] You know, we're good.

[00:32:53] And the Catskills and Hudson Valley.

[00:32:55] So yeah, well, I have the forty five thousand dollars.

[00:32:58] I just don't have the stamina to run seven marathons in seven.

[00:33:03] Well, you can sponsor me then.

[00:33:05] All right.

[00:33:06] You go.

[00:33:07] I'm getting out the checkbook.

[00:33:08] Just hold on.

[00:33:09] Let me know.

[00:33:10] How do I spell that?

[00:33:11] Is that B E E forty five forty five?

[00:33:16] Is that with two zeros?

[00:33:18] It's actually not forty five U.S.A.

[00:33:21] Oh, OK.

[00:33:23] It's getting too complicated.

[00:33:25] I'm going to pass.

[00:33:26] That's like kilometers to miles for us, man.

[00:33:28] How many cheeseburgers is that?

[00:33:31] That's a question.

[00:33:32] All right.

[00:33:33] So thanks for the shooting the shit with us.

[00:33:35] B and Ted once again.

[00:33:37] So thank you to the monthly supporters, Darren, Vicki, John, Betsy, Denise, Vanessa, Joseph, Jim C, Michael, David, Chris and Vanessa.

[00:33:46] Thank you guys very much for supporting the show.

[00:33:48] We really appreciate it.

[00:33:50] Also, thank you for the sponsors for supporting the show.

[00:33:53] Check out Outdoor Chronicles Photography.

[00:33:55] Molly from Outdoor Chronicles Photography specializes in adventure alone and adventure couples photography in the Catskills, Adirondack and White Mountains.

[00:34:03] She's an officiant for getting married, a licensed guide, but she is best of all a story maker.

[00:34:09] Molly won't just give you photos.

[00:34:11] She'll give you memories that will last forever.

[00:34:13] Don't hesitate to get a hold of Molly on awesome platforms.

[00:34:17] Also, have you ever wanted to learn more about hiking or backpacking?

[00:34:20] Even just brush up on some of your old skills in the backcountry.

[00:34:23] Check out Sherobon Project, a hiking and backpacking school.

[00:34:26] Scott and Joe from the New Jersey Search and Rescue Team have amazing backgrounds in Wilderness First Aid, Wilderness First Responder and the Mountain Rescue Association.

[00:34:35] And they are there for you to learn old new skills, hiking and backpacking.

[00:34:39] Did you say anything for First Aid, Map and Compass?

[00:34:42] Many other skills that could help you out while others in the trail.

[00:34:45] Check them out on their website and all social media platforms.

[00:34:48] So mentions.

[00:34:50] Once again, I would like to thank Betsy Anderson for donating five ciders to go towards the Alzheimer's Association benefit that we have going on.

[00:34:59] So I haven't really mentioned much about that.

[00:35:02] So I do the longest day for the Alzheimer's Association.

[00:35:07] I won't be there on that specific day this year because I'll be in the Shenandoah National Park hiking.

[00:35:13] So I'd like to take a bunch of people on a hike in the Catskills.

[00:35:16] So thank you, Betsy.

[00:35:19] Five hard-siders will go towards the Alzheimer's Association.

[00:35:22] So Vicki went with the goddesses of New York on the part of the Appalachian Trail from Nuclear Lake to Cats Rock.

[00:35:32] Thank you for mentioning us in this show.

[00:35:34] So have you guys ever been from a Nuclear Lake to Cats Rock?

[00:35:39] I don't know where Nuclear Lake is, and I try to stay away from places that are associated with nuclear activity myself.

[00:35:47] So if I'm be given any clue where that is.

[00:35:53] I don't.

[00:35:55] So it's part of the Appalachian Trail.

[00:35:57] I'm looking up right now.

[00:35:59] I have no clue where it is.

[00:36:00] So Vicki did some crazy stuff.

[00:36:03] It looks like it's it's in between.

[00:36:07] Oh, my God, like Kingston and right off to the east of Poughkeepsie.

[00:36:12] So yeah, yeah, but that's too far north.

[00:36:19] Oh, well, no way.

[00:36:21] It's never too far north for the for the Appalachian Trail.

[00:36:25] Yeah, Appalachian crosses the Bear Bear Mountain Bridge.

[00:36:30] So here and I'm going by our top research associate, Dr. Google.

[00:36:36] Oh, yes.

[00:36:37] Yeah.

[00:36:38] Which and it says Nuclear Lake is a 55 acre lake in eastern Dutchess County, New York.

[00:36:44] It's named after a former hunting preserve that Nuclear Development Association Associates bought in 1955.

[00:36:53] And the lake has a historic past of secret research experiments with plutonium and uranium.

[00:37:02] The Federal Atomic Energy Commission sponsored work at the lake from 1958 to 1972, developing plutonium fuel for breeder reactions.

[00:37:13] And it just goes on to give some history.

[00:37:16] Later on, it says the trail includes the nuclear loop side, the Appalachian Trail portion.

[00:37:24] So apparently there is some connection with the Appalachian Trail.

[00:37:29] I was way far off. Sorry. It's to the east of the Poughkeepsie and in between Pauling.

[00:37:34] And then here later on, it says, yeah, up to 55.

[00:37:38] Yeah, yeah. It's on old State Route 55 to the east of the 292 intersection with State Route 55.

[00:37:47] The lot is immediately off, yada, yada, yada.

[00:37:50] So it's readily accessible by state highways.

[00:37:54] So go there. Thank you, Vicki, for suggesting that once again, nuclear like look pretty cool.

[00:37:59] I got a no. Yeah. Also says just one last thing.

[00:38:02] It says you don't need to bring a flashlight because at night the lake still throws off enough of a illumination or glow from radiation that you can see around.

[00:38:14] I believe it. I believe it.

[00:38:16] I mean, it's B, it's true. I don't know why you're laughing if I'm reading it from Dr. Google.

[00:38:21] I'm laughing because I'm not surprised in the least bit.

[00:38:23] Yeah, yeah.

[00:38:25] Dr. Google says everything. So it's a nuclear, nuclear lake.

[00:38:30] Let's go there and you can bring like bring some Oscar Meyer hot dogs.

[00:38:34] You can cook them right in the lake. Hey, it's for the it's for the AT hikers.

[00:38:39] You know, I support that 100 percent.

[00:38:41] I'll be doing that in the Shenandoah soon.

[00:38:43] Actually, like 26 days. I can't wait.

[00:38:46] So is there. Oh, nice, nice.

[00:38:49] We should talk about that. So once again, Pink Pony 818 went to Minnewaska Park.

[00:38:55] She said it's not the Catskills, but she wanted to tag us in it.

[00:39:00] And she looks like she didn't really post where she went.

[00:39:06] Just a mini wasp in the rain. So, yeah, I can tell from the picture she got to the looks like the Millbrook area.

[00:39:13] You know, it looks like she got around the park, had a good hike there, which is, you know,

[00:39:18] And this is connected to the Awasing Reserve area that I spoke up of earlier.

[00:39:25] But I give her kudos for knowing and pointing out that the Gunks Minnewaska is not part of the Catskills.

[00:39:38] I mean, everybody.

[00:39:41] Don't we have somebody say that the Gunks are part of the Catskills?

[00:39:44] You see it all the time. I'm not going to mention people that say it is, but yeah, we hear it all the time that, gee,

[00:39:51] if they're mountains to the west of the Hudson River, it's the Catskills.

[00:39:56] Jesus. God, I got to keep this stuff in there. The car is still there.

[00:40:01] You need to see a doctor. You've been podcasting too much.

[00:40:04] You need to take some time off. I think we'll bring on B as the new co-host.

[00:40:09] I'll be moving up to the host position.

[00:40:12] And you can just be in charge of like wiring and editing.

[00:40:16] If I take my hat off, B, we're seriously just alike.

[00:40:23] So he can impersonate me.

[00:40:27] He's got hair. See? See, B, your total replacement.

[00:40:31] He's going to next week, B's here.

[00:40:34] So whatever. So I know.

[00:40:38] I know. I know. Are we drinking anything tonight? Who's having something to drink?

[00:40:43] B, what are you having to drink?

[00:40:46] I've got an empty can of spin drift sparkling water.

[00:40:50] Nice. Good stuff. That's a household favorite.

[00:40:55] So I'll take that. You got your Yeti. I heard all about the Yeti.

[00:40:58] Yeah. I hope your daughter is excited.

[00:41:02] Yeah, this is why I doubt she listens to the show, but I'm excited.

[00:41:05] From what I heard.

[00:41:08] This is some Costa Rican coffee I roasted up over the weekend.

[00:41:13] It came out really nice. Anybody who knows coffee roasting, I roasted it to full city.

[00:41:19] So that's like a moderately light roast.

[00:41:24] I'm certainly not an expert in coffee roasting.

[00:41:32] Same. Same. I got some water right now.

[00:41:35] I did have some, of course, some rum and coke before we did this.

[00:41:39] So water is good enough for me because right after this I hit the fricking sack and I go to bed.

[00:41:45] It's going to wake up at three o'clock in the morning.

[00:41:48] So yeah. Yeah. So previous hikes.

[00:41:51] Bree, what have you done lately?

[00:41:55] Well, hiking season is pretty much over for me.

[00:41:58] I like to hike in the winter.

[00:42:01] The last big hike was an attempt with me and my buddy to do the entirety of the Schwangang trail in under 24 hours.

[00:42:09] But I had a little bit of a knee issue, I think that had to do with my shoes.

[00:42:14] I was wearing Allbird Trail Runners and they have a high arch on them.

[00:42:19] So I felt some instability in my knee.

[00:42:22] But I had a climbing accident last year too.

[00:42:24] So I think that may have done it, but we'll try it again.

[00:42:30] We did 22 miles in under eight hours.

[00:42:36] Wow.

[00:42:37] So almost a third of the trip.

[00:42:40] Were you going northbound or southbound?

[00:42:44] Northbound from High Point, New Jersey.

[00:42:48] Yeah. A couple of years ago, my one daughter, I dropped her off at High Point with her backpack and she backpacked it.

[00:42:56] It's a long haul. She had a good time.

[00:42:59] It was the year that they had the fire at Route 52 and it was shut down.

[00:43:05] So she had to get permission to hike through that area.

[00:43:10] And I think once a year they run a race.

[00:43:14] They do.

[00:43:15] I think it's 50 miles of it.

[00:43:18] So you did like half?

[00:43:21] Well, so from High Point to Rosendale, which is the official end, is 68.4 miles.

[00:43:31] So we did about a third of it.

[00:43:34] Wow. Awesome.

[00:43:35] So congratulations, man.

[00:43:37] But now it's kayaking, paddling, climbing and mountain biking season.

[00:43:44] Cool. Nice.

[00:43:45] Cool. Cool.

[00:43:46] Tad, what about you, buddy?

[00:43:48] I remember you saying you had something epic going on.

[00:43:51] Yeah.

[00:43:52] So I set out Saturday to do what I call the bike and hike.

[00:43:57] Parked the Jeep at the Hunter Mountain Ski Area, rode down 23A to pick up not the tail end, but close to the end of that ridge to the north of Spruce and Valley.

[00:44:12] And I hiked up to Pack Saddle Mountain, Pine Island, Evergreen, then over to Rusk and East Rusk and then took the, they call it an unmaintained trail.

[00:44:27] It's an old Jeep road.

[00:44:29] It looks to be in really, really good shape, but it's a mile and four tenths, about a 1400 foot drop back down to the ski area, which at the time I was wondering how it compared to Becker Hollow.

[00:44:45] And it's about a half mile shorter than Becker Hollow.

[00:44:48] Apparently Becker Hollow is like 2150 feet of vertical.

[00:44:54] So this is not as substantial as Becker Hollow, but going down it I was saying to myself, I would not want to go up this.

[00:45:02] But nonetheless, you know, the three of these, well I guess two of these are on, no, three of them are on the 100 highest list.

[00:45:13] Pack Saddle isn't, but Pine Island and Evergreen are.

[00:45:17] Frankly, they're kind of ho-hum mountains.

[00:45:19] There's not a lot to see there.

[00:45:21] I'm going to say recent logging activity when I say recent, something in the past 75 to 100 years more or less.

[00:45:30] No old growth on the part of Pack Saddle I was on, no old growth on Pine Island.

[00:45:38] And you started to hit Evergreen, on Evergreen, older growth from the summit heading east.

[00:45:47] And then surely when you get to Rusk you're getting into more older growth forest activity.

[00:45:53] I'll also say for those of you that are going to do the 100 highest or you're in the midst of doing it and you haven't done these,

[00:46:00] in a few weeks I'd avoid them because I imagine that brush is going to get pretty thick.

[00:46:05] Some spots I was going through the young nettle fields and I was thinking to myself that when we're in the throes of nettle season,

[00:46:14] these things are going to have like teeth on them because they were growing fast.

[00:46:19] And the other thing I'll point out, if you haven't been out hiking in the past week

[00:46:25] and you're going out in the woods this weekend in the Catskills, Minnewaska or anywhere else in the region, bring your head net.

[00:46:36] Yeah.

[00:46:38] Because the bugs are getting, they're getting big and hungry.

[00:46:42] Yeah. You know, and you, that awesome epic hike, you know, I have been over to Evergreen from Rusk and back.

[00:46:51] I haven't been older pack saddle and stuff like that.

[00:46:53] But of course those areas are heavily like logged back in the days because they're easily accessible.

[00:46:59] So the nettles are fricking atrocious over there.

[00:47:03] No doubt. Yeah, I was able to go from where I started off on, I think it's called Brush Road

[00:47:09] and going up to the call between pack saddle and Pine Island, which by the way has no pines.

[00:47:18] But going up to that call, I was able to take logging roads easily within a hundred vert, maybe for 50 vert of that saddle.

[00:47:30] The saddle was nice and open, but the saddle that you hike through between Rusk and Evergreen, I thought that was a really nice area in there.

[00:47:40] Definitely. Definitely. What did you think of?

[00:47:42] I think of, oh well, you're not at that time. I was just going over to Rusk to the ledges and spot.

[00:47:48] That's like horrendous during that time and during the later time in the southern months. It's just horrible.

[00:47:54] Yeah, there was, I had no problem getting over there. There was really no low growth.

[00:47:58] The viewpoints were definitely worth it. If you're hiking Rusk is a short up and down.

[00:48:03] It's worth, you know, heading to the west and checking out that first viewpoint, particularly if you have a nice day to do it.

[00:48:10] There was a lot of just overcast. I'm not going to say hazy, but you know, just really white skies.

[00:48:18] It wasn't the best, but I made the most of it.

[00:48:21] I'll also say it was one of these interesting days for me.

[00:48:24] I can go out and hike some days like I did this past weekend, like 12 miles and not see any animals.

[00:48:32] But, you know, it started off with that wild turkey and her eggs, a bear, big black bear.

[00:48:39] And then I saw, I can't tell you how many packs of deer going up.

[00:48:44] And so it wasn't surprising when I got over to Evergreen that there was a deer stand, a tree stand in one of the trees.

[00:48:53] Yeah. And I'm assuming I didn't really check, check where it was on my GPS, but it seemed to me that it was on the public land side of the boundary over there.

[00:49:05] Yeah. Crazy hike. Awesome hike. Awesome, beautiful hike through those areas where I have been logged.

[00:49:13] And you kind of, it's so open that you're just like, oh my God, this is, it's magical.

[00:49:18] It's not like you're pushing through saplings or you're pushing through.

[00:49:21] Well, they're there on the one hand. And what I miss is the old rotten decay of the trees, you know, that fell naturally

[00:49:31] and that are just slowly being reabsorbed into the mountainside, you know, with the vegetation, trees, moss, whatever, you know, growing on them, in them.

[00:49:46] You know, and over time you'll see how they just start to conform to the contours of the land they fell on.

[00:49:53] There's no longer any portion suspended above the ground. It's all, it's just soft and it's just like being reabsorbed into the mountainside.

[00:50:04] But when you hike through these areas that were recently logged, man, they really cleaned it out.

[00:50:09] I'm going to say I made really good time over there because blow down was not an issue.

[00:50:17] You're just, you know, it's not a factor. Then you go into some areas where it's just like nonstop one blow down after another blow down.

[00:50:26] And you really find yourself not climbing over rock ledges.

[00:50:29] You find yourself climbing over the blow down because it's just so abundant. But here it was really thinned out.

[00:50:36] So it gives it a unique feel over there, but it's also kind of just a ho hum feel.

[00:50:42] Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, great experience.

[00:50:46] You know, today I went up Brantley Mountain once again.

[00:50:51] I took the Western Trail up to the summit and went down to the Eastern Trail where they're going to be putting the fire tower up.

[00:50:58] It's absolutely phenomenal. Beautiful day to sweat your ass off and to hate these bugs.

[00:51:03] Didn't have to use the head net because I was I was at that constant speed and there was some wind that was keeping them away.

[00:51:10] But I did some trail maintenance and there was one little kind of like a good five inch diameter tree that was in the way.

[00:51:21] So I decided to take on it myself with my good old handsaw.

[00:51:26] I start cracking at it and it shifts and the frickin saw goes out and hits the top of my knee.

[00:51:33] And I start bleeding and I start like, oh, what the hell?

[00:51:37] And it looks it looks it looks horrible because I think it was because I was sweating so much that it was just cascading down my frickin leg that I like kind of panic.

[00:51:48] So I got a gauze pad, wrapped it up with this mates band or something.

[00:51:51] I'm like, whatever. I'm going to finish this. I finish it up, move the tree out of the way and some of it.

[00:51:55] So what at what point in your hemorrhaging did the mountain lions start to circle you?

[00:52:03] They were like all over there, man. They were everywhere.

[00:52:07] Were they were they circling around you like the vultures overhead?

[00:52:10] They were sitting there looking at me and they were just like, man, this guy's out for blood.

[00:52:15] Let's go get him. Let's contact that person from New Jersey first that wrote that article.

[00:52:21] She's like the mountain lions were like, dude, hold on.

[00:52:25] Let's contact that lady from New Jersey who's a mountain lion whisperer.

[00:52:28] So so what I'm hearing is at some point in this saga, a toddler runs out of the woods and saves you.

[00:52:36] Two year olds. Yeah.

[00:52:38] Right. Sorry. Two and a half.

[00:52:40] Two and a half jumped out of its stroller, came over, fended, grabbed your hand saw, fended off the mountain lions while you applied a tourniquet and got yourself out of the woods.

[00:52:50] OK, I think we I think we covered that story.

[00:52:54] Did you hear about that? Reminded you that it was a fucking mountain lion.

[00:52:58] Yeah. Did you hear about that, B, by the way?

[00:53:01] It was the episode that I listened to today. Right.

[00:53:04] Isn't that freaking like that two and a half year old kid said that's a fucking mountain lion.

[00:53:09] Come on. Yeah, well, they learn young now.

[00:53:12] I mean, they you know, they start using Google and iPads, iPods, whatever, and they're able to look at stuff.

[00:53:19] A house cat looks pretty big. Yeah.

[00:53:21] Well, that's true. Let's not get into the details.

[00:53:25] OK, B, you know, we're just going to go on the appearance of it all.

[00:53:29] It was a mountain lion that was reported on the Internet.

[00:53:32] That must be true. Yes.

[00:53:35] And that that people telling me that there's cotton mouths up here.

[00:53:39] Well, I saw one this weekend. Cotton mouth.

[00:53:42] Yeah, I don't know. Cotton mouth. No, no.

[00:53:45] I'm having I'm having the photograph generated right now.

[00:53:48] A.I. enabled. I'll post it tomorrow. Correct.

[00:53:52] We're working on the final touches in Photoshop.

[00:53:55] My encounter with the cotton mouth will be up tomorrow.

[00:53:59] 8 a.m. OK.

[00:54:02] It's always it's always a good

[00:54:05] fun time up here and up above New York City because everybody sees everything.

[00:54:10] And it's just like, oh, my God, you won't believe it.

[00:54:13] That's a cow. Yeah.

[00:54:16] Flicking. Oh, that brings up fond memories of some city.

[00:54:20] Excuse me. So no, no, no, no.

[00:54:23] Say it. Oaks.

[00:54:26] Some city folks who had never seen a cow before.

[00:54:29] I've never seen a cow before.

[00:54:30] And and one was up in my grandmother's house.

[00:54:34] They were visiting and the cows came up to eat her lawn and

[00:54:38] and they were just like freaking out that this gargantuan

[00:54:42] bovine, you know, is like near their vehicle and all this stuff.

[00:54:46] They just couldn't believe it.

[00:54:48] Yeah, I would like to know statistically what percentage of people

[00:54:53] who grow up never seeing a cow but eating beef

[00:54:58] after they see a cow for the first time.

[00:55:01] Right. You know, so what is it like for maybe a week, two weeks, three weeks?

[00:55:05] They're notarians. Yeah. All right. All right.

[00:55:08] You guys are you guys are going away.

[00:55:10] I hit the I hit the guardrails.

[00:55:12] Yeah. That's how that I've ever eaten was one I shot.

[00:55:17] Wow. Impressive. Off topic.

[00:55:19] All right. We're just pulling out the stops.

[00:55:22] Yeah. All right. Catskill News.

[00:55:24] So volunteer 3500 Club Catskill Trail Crew.

[00:55:27] Catskill Mountains Club Visitors Center Jolly Rovers Trail Crew.

[00:55:30] Bumbley Mountain Fire Tower.

[00:55:32] Whatever volunteer any year time in the Catskill's or Hudson Valley,

[00:55:36] whatever it'll help out any place in every place we can get.

[00:55:40] So also if you need stickers, stop at Catskill Mountain.

[00:55:43] Stop at Cap Camp Catskill in Tannersville for stickers or even ask me.

[00:55:48] So weather forecast.

[00:55:51] So this weekend we're looking at Friday Mountain.

[00:55:55] I'm looking at this from Russ Mountain.

[00:55:57] It looks to be a absolute blue, beautiful weekend.

[00:56:00] Clear skies on Friday.

[00:56:02] I have 64 low 55 wind minimal.

[00:56:06] So once again, head nuts for the bugs.

[00:56:10] Saturday light rain, lower 59.

[00:56:14] I have 63 minimal wind once again.

[00:56:18] God, this freaking cold is killing me.

[00:56:21] And then we got Sunday little showers in the AM high of maybe 64 low 57,

[00:56:30] but it looks to be good day to be good weekend to be hiking.

[00:56:34] So get out there.

[00:56:36] What is it? What do we, what do we say again now instead of crush peaks?

[00:56:39] What do we say smash?

[00:56:41] I don't know. Yeah.

[00:56:43] Whatever.

[00:56:44] Just do it.

[00:56:45] Oh, I think that's already taken.

[00:56:46] Just do it.

[00:56:47] Whatever you do, do it with your head net.

[00:56:51] Yes. Yes.

[00:56:53] So last set of sponsors and then we'll get on to be sorry.

[00:56:56] Be shit.

[00:56:59] Jesus.

[00:57:00] Is it time for some new gear?

[00:57:02] Hiking to the Catskills say no more camp catskill in Tannersville.

[00:57:05] How's are your hiking knees footwear socks,

[00:57:07] more to waking shirts, freeze dried meals, catskill merchandise and more.

[00:57:11] They have all the essential necessities.

[00:57:13] Located in Tannersville and online.

[00:57:15] Check out camp catskill.

[00:57:16] If you want free stickers, stop here.

[00:57:18] Also, if you're ready to hit the trails,

[00:57:20] make sure you take the scene of crowd.

[00:57:22] Our guides are here to go help you with your goals, big or small.

[00:57:25] Like Marcia slide alone in a sewers.

[00:57:27] Check out senior crowd guiding gear runs on Instagram and Facebook for

[00:57:31] more information.

[00:57:32] Also, if you mentioned the podcast, you can get 10% off.

[00:57:35] Use the code mountain line.

[00:57:38] Jesus.

[00:57:39] Also check out another summit and nonprofit program that leads outdoor

[00:57:42] adventures and activities for first responders and veterans for free.

[00:57:45] Another friend.

[00:57:47] As in their summit leads at all types of different activities,

[00:57:50] day adventures, high adventures, the need for the epic ventures.

[00:57:53] Epic ventures are a step up program we'll use to have a classroom

[00:57:56] instruction.

[00:57:57] Willness first day training, a custom three day training trip.

[00:58:00] Jesus.

[00:58:01] All right.

[00:58:02] So we're going to get started with our first day training.

[00:58:06] Oh,

[00:58:08] Jesus.

[00:58:09] All leading up to adventure that you never forget.

[00:58:11] Of course, this is a 100% free.

[00:58:13] For veterans,

[00:58:14] number of first responders applied today at another summit.org.

[00:58:18] So.

[00:58:20] So, so, so B before we move on, I want your professional opinion.

[00:58:25] Listen,

[00:58:26] as Stash is uncontrollably sneezing in the background.

[00:58:30] B.

[00:58:31] Ooh.

[00:58:32] Do you think he's allergic to podcasting?

[00:58:35] I am not a doctor.

[00:58:38] I can not give you that professional.

[00:58:40] Well, I mean, you're, you're, you're, you know,

[00:58:42] you have this nice natural looking background.

[00:58:45] You know, you're relaxed there.

[00:58:46] It looks like you're taking this all in.

[00:58:48] And is somebody who's been observing Stash now for about an hour.

[00:58:53] With again, the uncontrollable sneezing.

[00:58:57] What do you say?

[00:58:58] Is he allergic?

[00:58:59] He's coughing.

[00:59:00] Coughing.

[00:59:01] Oh, it's even worse than it's it's worse.

[00:59:03] This is causing respiratory distress.

[00:59:05] You have like COPD from hanging out by your microphone too much.

[00:59:10] Yeah.

[00:59:11] Get it.

[00:59:12] Get one of those air purifiers, man.

[00:59:14] I got, I got one.

[00:59:15] I gotta, I gotta get up here.

[00:59:17] This, this coffin's out of control.

[00:59:20] Sorry about that.

[00:59:21] Oh, it's just fine, man.

[00:59:22] It happens.

[00:59:23] All right.

[00:59:24] So let's get on to the guests of the night.

[00:59:27] So tonight we have B from recovery hike Instagram page.

[00:59:32] Like the, do you have a social, like a formal page?

[00:59:35] I'm working on my website right now.

[00:59:39] Recovery hike is,

[00:59:41] is sort of a project that has to do with my business of

[00:59:46] recovering nature.

[00:59:47] Which is education, outdoor education,

[00:59:51] recreation and community.

[00:59:53] Awesome.

[00:59:54] Awesome.

[00:59:55] So B is here to talk about his recovery through,

[00:59:59] through nature, through different times of his life.

[01:00:02] And you know,

[01:00:03] I'm really excited to hear about this and be, and,

[01:00:06] you know,

[01:00:07] how about you give a little background about yourself first?

[01:00:10] Okay.

[01:00:11] Go ahead.

[01:00:12] Do whatever you want, buddy.

[01:00:13] So I grew up in grateful dead family.

[01:00:15] I grew up in a family of people who were,

[01:00:18] you know,

[01:00:19] I grew up in grateful dead family,

[01:00:24] which,

[01:00:25] I mean,

[01:00:26] can be a lot of things to a lot of people,

[01:00:29] but I followed the dead when I was a kid.

[01:00:32] I got to see Jerry Garcia and,

[01:00:35] and when Jerry died,

[01:00:37] my,

[01:00:38] my family decided to start music festivals.

[01:00:42] So I grew up surrounded by chaos,

[01:00:47] essentially.

[01:00:48] I grew up in the circus and I am,

[01:00:53] I am very grateful for that experience.

[01:00:57] And I am also ungrateful for that experience because of the

[01:01:02] chaos that it,

[01:01:03] it to be brought up in that world really,

[01:01:08] really brought on.

[01:01:10] But anyway,

[01:01:16] so,

[01:01:17] I've always been connected to, well,

[01:01:20] one thing that,

[01:01:21] that living and growing up in that world develops for a person is

[01:01:26] like a sense of,

[01:01:27] of freedom.

[01:01:29] A sense of like figuring yourself out.

[01:01:32] There aren't a lot of necessarily,

[01:01:34] there's not a lot of like social rules around it.

[01:01:37] Like you can just kind of be who you are and people really hone in on

[01:01:42] that and,

[01:01:43] and,

[01:01:44] and support that.

[01:01:45] Whatever that might be.

[01:01:46] Nature was,

[01:01:47] was always,

[01:01:48] was always a major part of that for me.

[01:01:50] And I'm really grateful of both my parents to instill a sense of

[01:01:56] awe.

[01:01:57] And I think also just growing up in that kind of counterculture,

[01:02:00] you know,

[01:02:01] I'm quoting using quotes from the book,

[01:02:04] but I'm also,

[01:02:05] I'm also,

[01:02:06] I'm also,

[01:02:07] I'm also,

[01:02:08] I'm also,

[01:02:10] You know,

[01:02:11] I'm quoting using quotations here.

[01:02:14] That counterculture is,

[01:02:16] is that it does instill this sense of awe and cultivate

[01:02:22] curiosity and curiosity is really important to learning.

[01:02:28] If,

[01:02:29] if you're not curious,

[01:02:30] then you don't learn so many people lose that as they get older.

[01:02:35] And that's,

[01:02:36] of recovering nature and recovery hike is to instill,

[01:02:40] to cultivate curiosity in people.

[01:02:43] And especially in folks who are suffering from addiction,

[01:02:50] you sort of, you lose this sense of curiosity

[01:02:53] because it takes your soul away

[01:02:58] or it has the potential to take your soul away.

[01:03:01] So that's kind of the world that I grew up in.

[01:03:06] And I mean, I experimented a lot with things

[01:03:11] and by the time I was 26,

[01:03:16] I kind of needed something different.

[01:03:20] That whole world kind of took a lot from me.

[01:03:29] Yeah, it's kind of hard to hone in on like

[01:03:36] where I'd like to go with that.

[01:03:42] Understandable man, but at least you found that connection

[01:03:46] to draw you to the better aspect of life

[01:03:49] and stuff like that.

[01:03:50] So, recovery hike, what is that?

[01:03:54] Explain that.

[01:03:55] So recovery hike is a wellness support group.

[01:04:02] So when I was 26,

[01:04:05] I was a professional wine maker for 10 years.

[01:04:09] I started working in waterways when I was 16, 17.

[01:04:16] And that was my entire life.

[01:04:20] Fermentation, just crafting wine, crafting mead,

[01:04:27] mead specifically was one of my favorites.

[01:04:31] And that all kind of came to a head

[01:04:37] and I needed to get out of that industry.

[01:04:40] So when I did, I was kind of left like,

[01:04:44] think of yourself as a carpenter

[01:04:46] who loses the ability to use your hands.

[01:04:51] You can't continue to create your craft.

[01:04:55] And so I'm a craftsman and wine was my craft.

[01:04:58] And I got a DWI and was sort of pressured

[01:05:03] into going into an outpatient program

[01:05:11] to get through the legal ramifications of that DWI.

[01:05:16] And I just wished that there was a support group

[01:05:19] on top of a mountain and there weren't any,

[01:05:21] I couldn't find any at least.

[01:05:24] And so I decided to start one of my own.

[01:05:27] We just celebrated our three year anniversary

[01:05:31] and this was 10 years ago.

[01:05:32] So it's just like long, long history of me

[01:05:35] trying to develop all of these things

[01:05:38] to kind of hone in on how I want this to look.

[01:05:42] And finally, through a recovery program,

[01:05:51] through a recovery community

[01:05:53] in Kingston, New York called Samadhi,

[01:05:56] incredible, wouldn't call it a Buddhist based

[01:06:02] recovery community, but Buddhism has a lot to do with

[01:06:08] their mission.

[01:06:13] And so through their help, I was able to start taking

[01:06:18] people out on hikes and get recovery hike going.

[01:06:26] But in of itself it's over the last three years

[01:06:31] it has developed less about addiction

[01:06:36] as an addiction support group

[01:06:38] and more of a full wellness support group.

[01:06:45] My understanding of recovery is less about recovering

[01:06:52] from addiction and more of what causes people

[01:06:55] to become addicted to something.

[01:06:57] It's our mental health.

[01:07:02] And it is a symptom of our mental health.

[01:07:05] We attach ourselves to things that dissociate us

[01:07:09] from our reality, which could be awful for some people.

[01:07:15] I'm very grateful where I'm at with things

[01:07:19] because I work with people who were in dire straits

[01:07:26] compared to my experience.

[01:07:28] So what's happened over the last number of years

[01:07:34] is thinking about recovery more as everyone has a reason

[01:07:44] to recover from something.

[01:07:46] Whether that is a physical issue,

[01:07:51] you're 60 years old and you need to get your knee

[01:07:53] replaced, so you got your knee replaced.

[01:07:56] Now you have this physical recovery to go through

[01:07:59] but how does that affect your mental health?

[01:08:02] How does that affect your spiritual health?

[01:08:05] That's just one little aspect of what recovery can be.

[01:08:11] So then there is the spiritual aspect of it.

[01:08:16] Some folks don't even understand this concept

[01:08:19] of spirituality and what is spirituality?

[01:08:21] It's connection.

[01:08:23] Spirituality truly is connection.

[01:08:27] You can look at it as this religious thing

[01:08:29] or you cannot, I don't look at it as a religious thing

[01:08:32] but somebody who is spiritually connected to Jesus Christ

[01:08:41] is, you know, there is this intense feeling

[01:08:48] to them personally that they have a true connection

[01:08:53] to Jesus Christ.

[01:08:54] So in the sense of my spirituality,

[01:08:57] it is a connection to nature,

[01:08:59] to the truth of the universe.

[01:09:01] And the truth of the universe is that we are all

[01:09:05] made of the same material.

[01:09:09] And for that, we are all connected.

[01:09:12] I am as connected to a mosquito, which you slap,

[01:09:18] as the mosquito is connected to an oak tree,

[01:09:21] as is connected to Haley's Comet

[01:09:25] because we're all made of the same material.

[01:09:27] So that connection is my spiritualism.

[01:09:31] So Recovery Hike tries to hone in on nature's ability

[01:09:38] to amplify that connection through curiosity,

[01:09:47] through people just connecting to people in nature

[01:09:53] because nature has no ego.

[01:09:56] So it breaks us down.

[01:09:57] We become five-year-olds again.

[01:10:00] We become children again.

[01:10:01] You could be 50 years old

[01:10:03] and have been addicted to heroin for 35 years.

[01:10:10] And I've seen people, they look at a red F

[01:10:14] like for the first time and they're just like

[01:10:18] freaking out.

[01:10:19] They're like, oh my God, can I pick it up?

[01:10:21] It's like, no, no, no, let's not pick it up.

[01:10:24] There are reasons for this, but let's look at it.

[01:10:27] Let's explore what this little critter is doing.

[01:10:32] And it's amazing.

[01:10:34] And that's really become my recovery path

[01:10:37] is to, my purpose is to serve others

[01:10:42] in that fashion is to bring curiosity to them.

[01:10:48] But the format of Recovery Hike is that,

[01:10:50] we go on these, I wouldn't even call them hikes.

[01:10:54] They're more like strolls

[01:10:55] because we need to be inclusive for everyone.

[01:10:58] Not everybody can hike Slide Mountain, you know?

[01:11:02] And not everybody who can hike Slide Mountain

[01:11:05] wants to hike Slide Mountain.

[01:11:06] So it's just about getting people in nature.

[01:11:10] And there are so many places.

[01:11:13] So, you know, Kingston itself has hundreds of trails

[01:11:18] within biking distance or within UCAT distance,

[01:11:21] you know, where you can just get dropped off

[01:11:23] somewhere by the bus.

[01:11:24] And there's the rail trail right there, you know,

[01:11:28] that takes you into the trees.

[01:11:33] And then another portion of the format

[01:11:38] is that we use moving meditation.

[01:11:40] So Qi Gong, Tai Chi to kind of help cultivate

[01:11:49] the whole experience of mind, body and spirit.

[01:11:53] So that's kind of what it is in a nutshell.

[01:11:56] It's connecting people to people and community to nature.

[01:12:02] That's more or less the mission statement.

[01:12:04] The way it should be.

[01:12:06] Behind it, so.

[01:12:10] So for our listeners, B,

[01:12:13] is the Recovery Hike program open to anyone?

[01:12:19] Without a doubt.

[01:12:20] And so you don't need a doctor's note,

[01:12:24] a prescription or some type of referral

[01:12:28] to join with you on a hike, a stroll.

[01:12:34] And how often does your group get together

[01:12:39] for your wilderness strolls or your hiking retreats?

[01:12:45] Well, so it's once a month,

[01:12:47] but I just opened up a new chapter.

[01:12:50] So it's now twice a month.

[01:12:51] Nice.

[01:12:54] Second Saturday of the month,

[01:12:55] we do the Green and Columbia County chapter hikes.

[01:13:02] And then the third Saturday of the month

[01:13:04] is the Ulster Northern Dutchess County Hikes.

[01:13:08] So.

[01:13:10] Wow.

[01:13:11] And it really is about,

[01:13:14] it's about building leadership in people.

[01:13:17] You know, I started the Ulster County

[01:13:21] Northern Dutchess Hikes three years ago.

[01:13:23] And last year,

[01:13:25] I spent most of last year in Arizona and Florida.

[01:13:30] So I've now passed the torch on to somebody else

[01:13:37] to be able to lead those hikes.

[01:13:41] And she's been doing an amazing job.

[01:13:43] Every month she's there, she's doing it, you know?

[01:13:47] And this is somebody who,

[01:13:49] who when we first met,

[01:13:51] like really struggled with intense anxiety

[01:13:54] and was really having a hard time connecting with people.

[01:13:58] And now it's like, she's out there.

[01:14:01] She's leading these hikes.

[01:14:02] She's the poster child of what I'm trying to create here,

[01:14:05] which is to build leadership in people.

[01:14:08] I spent my entire life up to about 26,

[01:14:14] without any self-worth.

[01:14:16] So many of us live without self-worth and without purpose.

[01:14:23] My experience was that I went through,

[01:14:26] you know, National Outdoor Leadership School

[01:14:28] and through Appalachian Mountain Club

[01:14:32] to do all of these courses and all of this stuff.

[01:14:35] And it's cost me thousands of dollars, you know?

[01:14:39] And I wanna be able to do this for people for free

[01:14:42] so they can become a leader,

[01:14:44] not only to themselves, but to other people

[01:14:47] within their community.

[01:14:49] And so this next chapter that I've started

[01:14:51] in Columbia and Greene County, you know,

[01:14:55] I'm leading those hikes,

[01:14:56] but it's my hope that somebody will wanna take that on

[01:15:01] for themselves and start leading those hikes

[01:15:05] so that I can go off and start a new one somewhere else.

[01:15:09] Yeah, right?

[01:15:10] Keep going, keep pushing the torch, man.

[01:15:13] So, you know, B, I hope, I don't,

[01:15:16] you know, you don't have to answer this.

[01:15:17] What is your journey with recovery?

[01:15:20] Can you explain to us?

[01:15:26] Well, like I said, I mean,

[01:15:27] I grew up without any sense of self-worth.

[01:15:32] At 26, well, at 22, my brother died unexpectedly

[01:15:38] and that really, that really affected me horribly.

[01:15:48] I started, I mean, like I said, I was a winemaker,

[01:15:52] but it's just like, that became my excuse too.

[01:15:55] It was like, oh, this is my life, I'm a winemaker.

[01:15:57] So I'll just, you know, so I was drinking all day,

[01:15:59] every day and I just said, oh, it's my job, you know?

[01:16:04] I was engaged at the time and that fell apart.

[01:16:09] And I mean, my life was unmanageable.

[01:16:12] I couldn't get through the day without drinking.

[01:16:16] I couldn't get through,

[01:16:17] just couldn't get through the day at all.

[01:16:21] I was working for a really great company,

[01:16:27] for a beer company in their sales department.

[01:16:32] And I was making way too much money

[01:16:34] for a young 22 year old to make

[01:16:37] and was just spending that all on booze.

[01:16:40] And when this person left me and then I got a DWI

[01:16:46] and just, that was an eye opener for me

[01:16:50] that there had to be something better.

[01:16:54] There had to be.

[01:16:55] I wanted to live, I didn't wanna just be alive.

[01:16:59] So I started hiking.

[01:17:00] The first hike that I did in the summer of 2014,

[01:17:05] like I had been hiking before,

[01:17:07] but like the hike that like really set me on this course

[01:17:10] was the Devil's Path.

[01:17:13] Nice.

[01:17:14] Over two days, it killed me that first time.

[01:17:18] Now I'm doing it in six hours.

[01:17:22] Jesus.

[01:17:24] But that first one was like two days.

[01:17:27] I had way too much gear on.

[01:17:29] I had like 25, 30 pounds of gear on me,

[01:17:33] way too much water.

[01:17:35] That's it.

[01:17:37] That's lightweight right there buddy.

[01:17:39] I guess, I don't know.

[01:17:42] Typically I try not to wear anything more than 20 pounds

[01:17:46] for overnight hikes and stuff.

[01:17:50] Cause throughout my bivvy, I don't need no tent.

[01:17:54] I'll throw out a bivvy and blah, blah, blah.

[01:17:56] So as minimal as possible at this point,

[01:17:59] but yeah that was like my first hike

[01:18:03] that really pushed me on this path

[01:18:06] that I've been leading for a while.

[01:18:09] I've completely changed careers in wilderness,

[01:18:14] EMS, search and rescue.

[01:18:16] I work with people in recovery.

[01:18:19] So as well as the recovery hikes

[01:18:23] and the business that I'm starting, recovering nature.

[01:18:26] So that was 10 years ago.

[01:18:31] So the last 10 years,

[01:18:33] I've been on and off with where I'm at

[01:18:36] with my relationship with alcohol

[01:18:39] and just like learning ways

[01:18:43] of more proactive coping mechanisms.

[01:18:50] Plant medicines have really been helpful to me.

[01:18:54] Ayahuasca specifically has been a big help

[01:19:00] understanding the causes of my personal suffering.

[01:19:07] Buddhism has definitely been a major part

[01:19:10] of my recovery path and just connecting with people

[01:19:16] and helping people.

[01:19:19] So if we could be, why don't we just take a step back

[01:19:22] and let's talk about the ayahuasca.

[01:19:25] Did you use that as a therapy

[01:19:28] or an aid just one time more than once?

[01:19:32] More than once, yes as a therapy.

[01:19:40] It is not something to use recreationally.

[01:19:43] Precisely.

[01:19:44] I know people who do, all right,

[01:19:47] they do it multiple times a year

[01:19:50] and they don't do any of the work afterwards.

[01:19:54] It requires like a lot of work afterwards.

[01:19:57] So the plant medicine, she just shows you,

[01:20:02] she just shows you the things that you need to see.

[01:20:06] And then sometimes she won't show you anything

[01:20:09] and you don't even feel it.

[01:20:13] You're like everybody's off in their journey

[01:20:16] and you're just sitting there sober

[01:20:17] and you're like, what the fuck?

[01:20:20] Because the plant medicine knows when to dig deep.

[01:20:33] And did you get that deep experience

[01:20:34] the first time you tried ayahuasca?

[01:20:37] No, it wasn't the right place

[01:20:41] and grandmother Aya knew that.

[01:20:46] And where'd you go for your first dose?

[01:20:50] The first time was in New York state

[01:20:55] but the church that I found in which

[01:20:58] it is the right place for me,

[01:21:01] the right shamans is down in Florida.

[01:21:04] Okay and is that where you've gone

[01:21:06] for subsequent treatments or dosages?

[01:21:10] Yes.

[01:21:11] Yeah. Nice.

[01:21:12] I found the place that works for me.

[01:21:18] Definitely, definitely.

[01:21:20] And I trust those people

[01:21:24] and I'd like to support what they're doing.

[01:21:29] Did you ever seek any like during these times

[01:21:32] seek any professional help or was this all done by you?

[01:21:36] No, no, no, no.

[01:21:36] Okay.

[01:21:37] No, I was under the treatment of psychiatrists

[01:21:45] for like seven years.

[01:21:49] They tested me on multiple different medications.

[01:21:54] The worst thing that a psychiatrist ever said to me

[01:21:57] was it is an unrealistic goal

[01:22:00] for me to ever be off medication.

[01:22:03] That was four years ago

[01:22:04] and I haven't been on medication

[01:22:08] in the last four years.

[01:22:09] Awesome. Congratulations.

[01:22:11] They took me off lithium

[01:22:12] which put me in the hospital more than once

[01:22:16] because of overdosing,

[01:22:18] which was under the recommend.

[01:22:20] I was using the recommended dose of lithium

[01:22:24] and still like had to go to the hospital

[01:22:27] a couple of times because my lithium level was so high

[01:22:30] that I almost went into kidney failure.

[01:22:32] Wow.

[01:22:33] And so the psychiatrist got me off of lithium

[01:22:36] and he put me on five other medications.

[01:22:39] The whole point of me getting on medication

[01:22:41] was never to be on it for a lifetime.

[01:22:45] And I'll never forget him saying,

[01:22:48] oh, it's an unrealistic goal

[01:22:49] for you to ever get off a medication.

[01:22:51] Yeah.

[01:22:53] Which makes me double back

[01:22:54] and think of your comment

[01:22:55] that addiction takes your soul away.

[01:22:59] And I think that's a really insightful comment.

[01:23:01] And I often think of that

[01:23:03] when I talk to people about addiction

[01:23:06] that they're really no longer in control.

[01:23:09] You know, they really,

[01:23:10] their soul has been taken over and occupied

[01:23:15] by whatever substance it is

[01:23:17] that they become addicted to.

[01:23:20] And it's a sad state of affairs

[01:23:22] to see that happen to somebody.

[01:23:25] Yes.

[01:23:26] Addiction is,

[01:23:29] and it's only really becoming kind of,

[01:23:33] addiction as a symptom of dissociative disorders

[01:23:37] is only really starting to be explored

[01:23:41] rather than addiction being its own separate

[01:23:43] sort of disease,

[01:23:45] which I understand for the purposes of health insurance

[01:23:49] and getting people in treatment,

[01:23:50] like that is a good thing.

[01:23:53] But when we look at addiction,

[01:23:58] what caused addiction in the first place?

[01:24:00] We're not born addicts.

[01:24:03] We're not.

[01:24:05] It is a symptom of our upbringing

[01:24:09] or of horrible things that have happened to us.

[01:24:14] Trauma is,

[01:24:18] trauma is within us all.

[01:24:20] We've all had traumatic experiences

[01:24:22] and we all deal with them differently

[01:24:24] because the human brain is so complicated.

[01:24:28] We might all be made of the same material,

[01:24:30] but my brain is not the same as yours, Dad.

[01:24:33] Oh yeah, definitely.

[01:24:35] So for a psychiatrist to try to take all of these chemicals

[01:24:40] and mess around,

[01:24:44] we have the power within ourselves

[01:24:47] to change our brains.

[01:24:50] Yeah, definitely.

[01:24:52] It's a matter of, in my view,

[01:24:56] it's no different than somebody who goes to the hospital

[01:25:00] somebody who goes to the gym on a daily basis

[01:25:04] and weight trains to develop muscle power.

[01:25:08] I think people also need to develop willpower in life,

[01:25:11] the will to overcome obstacles,

[01:25:14] the will to overcome things that are holding them back,

[01:25:18] whether it's addiction, trauma,

[01:25:22] other things that have happened to them in their life.

[01:25:24] And it's always interesting to me

[01:25:27] to see how many people spend more time and attention

[01:25:31] to dealing with superficial things

[01:25:34] as opposed to digging deep within them

[01:25:36] in finding what they're made of

[01:25:38] and what they're capable of,

[01:25:40] with their willpower and their mental power.

[01:25:45] We're inherently lazy.

[01:25:47] We want the easy way out.

[01:25:49] Yeah, that's why everybody prescribes drugs to people.

[01:25:52] Right? Yeah.

[01:25:53] Because it's no different than trying to fix your radiator

[01:25:56] with that stuff you pour down the radiator to fix a leak

[01:26:00] as opposed to replacing the radiator, right?

[01:26:04] Why did we create the wedge?

[01:26:07] Why did we create the wheel?

[01:26:08] To make our lives easier.

[01:26:10] Yeah.

[01:26:11] So what are your thoughts on psilocybin

[01:26:15] as a treatment modality?

[01:26:18] I am a firm believer that psilocybin can work.

[01:26:24] If it's used mindfully.

[01:26:26] Mm-hmm.

[01:26:27] Because I know that's an emerging field

[01:26:30] in psychology in the country,

[01:26:33] is using psilocybin in a therapeutic setting

[01:26:38] to treat people with PTSD, childhood trauma, et cetera.

[01:26:44] And one of the interests, as far as I know,

[01:26:46] one of the interesting things is, to my knowledge,

[01:26:48] ayahuasca is not legal in the United States.

[01:26:52] Is that true?

[01:26:53] DMT is not legal in the United States.

[01:26:56] Ayahuasca is used in a religious ceremony,

[01:27:00] therefore there are loopholes in which you can use it legally.

[01:27:06] It's part of like a First Amendment,

[01:27:08] freedom of religion approach.

[01:27:11] Yes.

[01:27:12] All right.

[01:27:13] That's my understanding of it.

[01:27:14] Mm-hmm.

[01:27:17] So I mean, I'm getting ads on Facebook

[01:27:20] for psilocybin gummies.

[01:27:22] Ha ha ha.

[01:27:23] Like typical shit like that.

[01:27:26] Exactly, which is one thing that really disappoints me

[01:27:29] about the cannabis industry

[01:27:31] is that they went the same way as alcohol and tobacco.

[01:27:33] You can get cannabis in all sorts of things,

[01:27:36] including in beer now.

[01:27:39] I know my experience with the combination of alcohol

[01:27:42] and THC is horrible.

[01:27:45] I get sick, I start hallucinating, it's awful.

[01:27:47] I'm like, now we're putting it out there for people to buy.

[01:27:52] Yeah.

[01:27:53] So when you...

[01:27:55] Was the devil's path your first experience

[01:27:58] with recovering from a hike or what?

[01:28:01] That's crazy to go into.

[01:28:03] Is that really what happened?

[01:28:05] Yeah.

[01:28:06] Wow.

[01:28:07] Yep.

[01:28:08] Shit.

[01:28:09] My fiance left me and I was just like,

[01:28:15] I saw it was the hardest hike

[01:28:18] and always been one to want to challenge myself

[01:28:23] and challenge my fears.

[01:28:27] And that's kind of always been a big part of my recovery

[01:28:32] is to just, we need to challenge ourselves.

[01:28:35] We're so content being comfortable.

[01:28:37] Impressive.

[01:28:38] I throw myself in uncomfortable situations

[01:28:41] So you can see what you're made of.

[01:28:43] Yeah, but I had done that previously

[01:28:46] only in a different way.

[01:28:48] I had done that more in the counterculture way of like,

[01:28:52] I'll never forget my first time hitchhiking from Mexico

[01:28:55] to California when I was 20 years old.

[01:28:58] That was just like, it was an awful experience.

[01:29:02] Yeah.

[01:29:03] I can only imagine.

[01:29:07] No.

[01:29:08] Of course not.

[01:29:09] Of course not.

[01:29:10] No, that's really only becoming now

[01:29:14] a more in the mainstream thing.

[01:29:17] And I think 2020 really threw people into that as well

[01:29:22] as wilderness and eco therapies

[01:29:29] and the way that we're doing things

[01:29:31] that we're doing things that we're doing

[01:29:33] that we're doing things that we're doing

[01:29:35] wilderness and eco therapies

[01:29:38] have become more popular after 2020

[01:29:41] where folks were forced to kind of get into nature.

[01:29:47] I mean, you guys, I'm sure saw it in the Catskills

[01:29:52] just the immense amount of people who came up

[01:29:56] and were walking in the woods.

[01:29:58] How many people died at Catterskill Falls that year?

[01:30:02] Not too many, only a few.

[01:30:04] Yeah.

[01:30:05] It's because they weren't wearing masks.

[01:30:08] Yeah.

[01:30:09] That was all the, yeah.

[01:30:11] I'm sure it was a mask thing.

[01:30:13] No, I'm sure it was the flip flops they were wearing.

[01:30:15] Yeah.

[01:30:16] Yeah.

[01:30:17] It wasn't that many because it was patrolled pretty well.

[01:30:19] So B, let me ask you this

[01:30:21] because I think you've been in this situation

[01:30:24] and maybe a person or a couple of persons

[01:30:29] listening to the podcast are in this situation

[01:30:33] or somebody that they know is in this situation.

[01:30:36] But what is your recommendation to somebody

[01:30:42] who is suffering from an addiction

[01:30:45] to start on this path of recovery and wellbeing?

[01:30:50] Where is your recommendation to them,

[01:30:53] the best place to start?

[01:30:55] Community.

[01:30:57] And what does it mean?

[01:30:59] Is that the, it takes a village concept?

[01:31:02] It does.

[01:31:04] It does.

[01:31:06] One thing that I've noticed is there's this like,

[01:31:11] maybe false isn't the right word to use,

[01:31:14] but this like false sense of individualism,

[01:31:17] you know, where we need to do things by ourselves.

[01:31:20] And it's just not true.

[01:31:22] You know, when you look back in history,

[01:31:26] communities is what supported people.

[01:31:30] And in this time and day, community,

[01:31:34] we don't even know who our neighbors are anymore.

[01:31:38] You know, because maybe that neighbor has a Hokel flag out

[01:31:43] and one neighbor has a Trump flag out.

[01:31:45] And so you immediately just push them off,

[01:31:49] not even knowing who they truly are.

[01:31:53] So getting with the community is the most important thing,

[01:31:56] regardless of what that community is.

[01:31:59] So let's look at that from the flip side.

[01:32:02] And presumably this is the situation that most of our listeners

[01:32:08] and most folks find themselves in,

[01:32:11] is that they're ostensibly not addicted,

[01:32:14] but they know somebody,

[01:32:15] whether it's a close family member,

[01:32:18] somebody at work, an acquaintance,

[01:32:20] but there's somebody in their circle that has an addiction,

[01:32:25] whether it's to opioids, painkillers, alcohol, something else.

[01:32:30] What's your recommendation to that person?

[01:32:33] How they should go about approaching their family member,

[01:32:37] their acquaintance, the person they know who's addicted.

[01:32:42] Tough one.

[01:32:44] Compassion.

[01:32:46] Meeting them with compassion.

[01:32:52] It's very easy to say that somebody is, you know,

[01:32:56] is doing something wrong rather than just listening to them.

[01:33:02] What's going on with you?

[01:33:05] You know?

[01:33:06] Yeah.

[01:33:07] And so they're in a state of denial.

[01:33:10] They don't think they need help.

[01:33:12] They push back.

[01:33:14] You have to meet them where they are.

[01:33:16] Yeah, you have to get in their head basically.

[01:33:20] Yeah, you have to meet them where they are.

[01:33:22] So if somebody is in denial about your perception of them being addicted

[01:33:30] to something or having a problem with something,

[01:33:33] like you have to meet them where they are.

[01:33:36] We're seeing more and more of that with the harm reduction approach

[01:33:42] in which rather than like forcing people into abstinence,

[01:33:50] trying to educate them on healthy approaches to life.

[01:33:59] Because abstinence just doesn't work for everybody.

[01:34:04] And that's one of, and I'm not bad mouthing 12-step programs at all

[01:34:11] because they've worked for a hundred years for thousands of people, you know?

[01:34:18] But abstinence just doesn't always work for everybody.

[01:34:21] But one thing that I will say about those programs like Alcoholics Anonymous

[01:34:26] is that that's a community of people who are there to support you

[01:34:30] and have gone through the same shit that you have.

[01:34:34] You know?

[01:34:35] So just listening to their stories gives you a perspective that you're not alone.

[01:34:46] Or your situation isn't even as shitty as somebody else's situation.

[01:34:52] So B, with your recovery through hiking,

[01:34:55] did you ever encounter any obstacles that you kind of threw you off balance

[01:35:03] and stuff like that through your recovery?

[01:35:05] Every day.

[01:35:06] Every day? Okay.

[01:35:07] That's good.

[01:35:09] With other people as well?

[01:35:11] Every day I have to be mindful of my actions,

[01:35:16] my intentions of my speech, of who I'm associating with.

[01:35:23] You know?

[01:35:24] Because it's so easy to go back to those communities that weren't helpful,

[01:35:30] to those people that weren't helpful.

[01:35:33] You know?

[01:35:34] And I have to remind myself, well, why wasn't it helpful?

[01:35:38] With people through hiking,

[01:35:40] when you take somebody through hiking and stuff like that,

[01:35:43] do they, are they instantly like wowed, do you think?

[01:35:50] Some folks, yes.

[01:35:53] Others, no.

[01:35:57] Because maybe their personality just isn't to be out in nature.

[01:36:01] Or they're not there yet.

[01:36:03] You know?

[01:36:06] Enlightenment is sort of a weird thing to say,

[01:36:08] but they're not enlightened to that connection.

[01:36:14] They don't have to feel it.

[01:36:16] Yeah, maybe they need a viewpoint or a waterfall or something like that.

[01:36:20] Well, on their own terms.

[01:36:22] Yeah.

[01:36:23] No?

[01:36:24] So, yeah, like I said, you know, you have to meet them where they're at.

[01:36:30] If they're not quite there, then you just have to give these gentle little pushes.

[01:36:35] Yeah.

[01:36:37] Like maybe a walk through the woods isn't good enough.

[01:36:39] Let's go take them for a waterfall.

[01:36:41] Yeah.

[01:36:42] Or maybe that's not good enough.

[01:36:43] Let's go take them to a massive viewpoint that overlooks the Catskill Range.

[01:36:47] Yeah.

[01:36:48] Or freaking Devil's Path like you.

[01:36:51] Or just in a city park.

[01:36:54] Or Devil's Path like you.

[01:36:56] Have you taken any, have you taken anybody on Devil's Path yet?

[01:37:01] Not for recovery hikes, no.

[01:37:04] Ooh, that'll be interesting.

[01:37:05] I'm working with a doctor right now about, with this program for immersive hikes.

[01:37:10] That is, it will end up being like a four to six week program online and in person

[01:37:18] in which we're educating on a first instilling the sense of curiosity in which we're all connected.

[01:37:31] So how geology and biology are intrinsic, I'm not going to say that word right now.

[01:37:38] It's all good.

[01:37:39] You know, how connected biology is to geology.

[01:37:44] And that just kind of like starts that like wow factor, you know?

[01:37:49] And then teaching the meditation practices and how doing meditation,

[01:37:57] whether it's qigong, yoga, sitting meditation, standing meditation, other martial arts in nature

[01:38:04] amplifies the effects of those things.

[01:38:08] And taking people into nature and showing them and teaching them, you know, plants, trees,

[01:38:16] how they are connected, how once you step off of the blacktop and onto a lawn

[01:38:22] that the entire ecosystem knows you're there almost immediately because of the relationships of mushrooms,

[01:38:30] bacterium plants and the animals that exist there all have this communication center that we have disconnected ourselves from.

[01:38:43] Yeah, amazing. Yeah, I got to admit.

[01:38:47] So, I mean, soon to be you'll be like, hey, you know, we're going to take this 24 mile hike.

[01:38:52] You'll get views from each viewpoint or from each summit, but you won't tell them anything else.

[01:38:58] Yeah.

[01:39:00] And be like 9000 feet of elevation gain 24 miles.

[01:39:03] Boom.

[01:39:05] Yep.

[01:39:06] That'll get them going.

[01:39:08] Challenge yourself.

[01:39:10] I don't like this.

[01:39:11] Oh, this is awful.

[01:39:12] Yeah.

[01:39:13] Life sucks.

[01:39:14] Get over it.

[01:39:16] Nice.

[01:39:17] So, right.

[01:39:19] Exactly.

[01:39:20] Climb that.

[01:39:21] You know, I try to tell my wife that all that time.

[01:39:23] Climb that fucking mountain.

[01:39:25] Just shut up.

[01:39:26] Climb that mountain.

[01:39:27] It doesn't always work.

[01:39:28] Trust me.

[01:39:29] My proudest moments was one of the participants for Recovery Hike.

[01:39:33] We did Mount Tremper because every November we do a we do a fire tower.

[01:39:38] Nice.

[01:39:39] So we did Mount Tremper and that's not the easier of the fire towers in the area, you know,

[01:39:44] and we didn't go from Mount Tremper.

[01:39:48] We didn't go from Phoenicia side.

[01:39:51] We went from what is that?

[01:39:53] Chesapeake Road.

[01:39:55] Yes.

[01:39:56] Nice.

[01:39:57] That's a beautiful hike.

[01:39:58] Yeah.

[01:39:59] So it's it's a pretty long hike, you know, definitely eight miles.

[01:40:02] Yeah.

[01:40:03] And and, you know, she was bitching up it the whole time.

[01:40:07] We get up there and then we got to go back, you know.

[01:40:10] And at the end of the day, it's just like she is just raising her arms like, hell yeah, I did that.

[01:40:16] You know, a woman in her 60s and we took it at her pace.

[01:40:21] You know, it was just like we met her where she was at, which was I really don't want to do this, but I'm going to power through it.

[01:40:27] And she fucking powered through it.

[01:40:29] You know.

[01:40:31] And then and that's that that gets the glow in your eyes.

[01:40:35] Your heart gets bigger and you're just like, shit, look what I just did.

[01:40:39] And look what she just did.

[01:40:41] Look what she just did.

[01:40:43] Who cares what I did?

[01:40:45] Would you help do you guided somebody along the path?

[01:40:47] That's that's what I see it as.

[01:40:49] Yeah.

[01:40:50] But and that's one of the things I'm cognizant of is you see folks all the time pointing out and putting in the spotlight that, you know, they just, you know,

[01:41:00] did the Catskill nine where they did the devil in a day.

[01:41:04] And that's great for them.

[01:41:06] But then there's that person out there that just getting to the summit of one mountain was this hugely epic experience for them.

[01:41:15] And so that's something which I find equally impressive is when, you know, a person goes out there, whether it's their first hike or their 20th hike.

[01:41:24] And for them, they're pushing that personal limit.

[01:41:27] And at the end of the day, they accomplish something that that makes them feel proud of what they did and also serves as a building block for them to go out and do other things that just keep instilling that feeling in them.

[01:41:43] So happy there be.

[01:41:44] Yeah, yeah, no, I'm here.

[01:41:46] Yeah, I'm going to try to turn on the light.

[01:41:51] It's all good.

[01:41:53] So, like, like these so what do you what are you hiking now you down in the Hudson Valley mostly are you coming up to the Catskills once in a while.

[01:42:02] Yeah, my father and I've got an 88 acre farm on Elizaville.

[01:42:09] And so I mean, like I said hike wise, I'm pretty much done with my hiking season.

[01:42:15] I like to hike in the winter.

[01:42:17] The views are better.

[01:42:19] There's no bugs.

[01:42:21] He is gone.

[01:42:23] And there's no people, or at least the people you do reach are those who are like, they're the ones who I want to hang out with.

[01:42:31] Yeah, they seem to be more into it.

[01:42:36] So, so, so by the way, be let's let's just let's go way way back to the beginning here.

[01:42:44] For how long was your, your folks part of the dead circle circus touring.

[01:42:52] Part of that village.

[01:42:54] They still are.

[01:42:55] Oh yeah.

[01:42:56] Well, my parents aren't together any longer.

[01:42:59] My father was more or less the one I'm actually going to head inside where I can plug my computer.

[01:43:09] You know, we, I think we live in a time now where there's a big portion of the population that has no clue what that experience was like.

[01:43:18] For example, Stas, were you ever at a dead show?

[01:43:23] Never.

[01:43:24] Never?

[01:43:25] Never. You say you never experienced the, I don't know if it's best to go well, how would you describe it be the, the, the scene or the atmosphere outside of the venue.

[01:43:41] Well, the Grateful Dead created an environment that no other band has ever been able to do.

[01:43:52] And that followed and it, it followed people home.

[01:43:58] Yeah.

[01:43:59] It was, it was this huge, just like traveling caravan of folks, you know, fans and business people, if you will, you know, cottage industry people that would travel with the dead.

[01:44:20] And whether they were selling t-shirts, selling backpacks, selling hats, selling an assortment of things.

[01:44:32] You know, it was, it was all there at the, at the dead show.

[01:44:36] And sometimes it was funner to hang out outside of the show than it was to go into the show.

[01:44:43] Yeah, quite a few people didn't make it into the show. They just hung out with a lot.

[01:44:48] True. Yeah, I was, I was a more of an Olympic kind of guy. So sorry.

[01:44:54] I would stop 99.

[01:44:57] This is the end of our, of our interview.

[01:45:02] I'm a metalhead. I'm sorry. I love metal.

[01:45:05] That's alright. So I enjoy metal as well.

[01:45:08] Yeah.

[01:45:10] So, like, so what do you, are you doing now? What's, what's your, your hiking goals as of now?

[01:45:16] Well, my hiking goals are to just keep getting myself ready for, for the SRT in 24 hours with my buddy.

[01:45:30] But he and I do a, we do like a triathlon at the end, beginning of September.

[01:45:37] It is 20 miles of, yeah, it's 20 miles. Yes, it's 20 miles of the Devil's Path, hiking and then biking from.

[01:45:49] So we start at, we start at Devil's Tombstone.

[01:45:53] We go to Overlook and then we bike to, to Kingston.

[01:45:59] And then we kayak to Germantown. It's like 51 miles.

[01:46:05] Now, Ted, you're more familiar with that area. I'm not, I know the whole Overlook stuff, but after that, that's not me.

[01:46:12] So is that impressive, Ted? Yeah, I think it's impressive. You guys staged the kayaks ahead.

[01:46:19] Yep. Yeah. Wow. That's fun. We staged them down at the waterfront in Kingston.

[01:46:25] I like, I like those, you know, like multi-modal adventures where, like I just did this past weekend.

[01:46:34] I, you know, have like a eight mile bicycle leg to start off my hike and then got into the hike and ended it up where I started the bike ride, you know,

[01:46:44] and then drove down to pick up the bike. Sometimes I have to say, man, that I stashed the bike too far off the road.

[01:46:52] And that's the hardest part of the day is going from the Jeep to retrieve the bike.

[01:46:56] I remember one time I did like this 17 miler and I finished the hike.

[01:47:01] I hop in the Jeep and I drive down to Phoenicia and I'm telling you the hike up to my bicycle was maybe 15 vertical gain.

[01:47:12] And I almost couldn't do it. I was like, well, maybe I'll come get the bike next weekend.

[01:47:16] So, but I, I, I, you know, dug inside of me and pulled it out to make it up there, grab the bike and haul it home. Yep.

[01:47:28] All good stuff. With the South iconic trail.

[01:47:32] With the conic trail, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll stash my bike up at Catamount ski resort 23.

[01:47:41] And then I'll drive down to to Rudd pond.

[01:47:45] I'll hike the SRT and then I'll ride the rail trail down to back down.

[01:47:53] Wow. That's a good little push it and push it and push it right?

[01:47:57] Little John.

[01:47:59] I do that all the time. I, and I'm planning on doing the conic ridge trail this summer and two parts each doing a bike and hike each time I go out there.

[01:48:11] Some might list, I just hiking the Catskills in the summer for me.

[01:48:16] I don't know. It's fun and enjoyable, but I want to get out and explore some other terrain.

[01:48:21] So the conic ridge trails on the list for July or August.

[01:48:26] That's one of my favorites. I love that.

[01:48:29] So Allender is an absolutely beautiful mountain. The views are impeccable.

[01:48:35] Like it, that, that like, it's just this beautiful little pocket range.

[01:48:39] I mean, the whole Mount Washington, Jugtown, Rudd pond.

[01:48:45] It's absolutely gorgeous. I love that, that whole area.

[01:48:49] I've heard the views are absolutely phenomenal up there.

[01:48:52] Oh yeah. Well, I mean you can see the high, you can see the Hudson Highlands, the Catskills and the Schwann Gunks, the whole, you know, the Hudson Valley.

[01:49:01] It's fun just to say that, oh, today I hiked through Massachusetts, Connecticut and New York, you know?

[01:49:07] Yeah.

[01:49:09] Impressive.

[01:49:11] So, yeah.

[01:49:13] So B, to wrap up everything.

[01:49:16] Do you have any advice for anybody suffering from, from, you know, these sorts of addictions and different complications in their life?

[01:49:27] Yeah. My advice would be to find what works best for you.

[01:49:36] Find purpose in your life.

[01:49:40] May just be getting up and making your bed.

[01:49:43] If that's, if that's all you can do in a day, that's amazing.

[01:49:48] And you should be proud of that.

[01:49:50] So ultimately challenge yourself.

[01:49:54] Yeah. Well, awesome. Awesome. Thank you for joining us B. Really appreciate it.

[01:49:59] So, Tad, what do you got for Stumpstache? Let's see if Peking can help out with this one.

[01:50:05] Okay. This is a

[01:50:08] little segment that he does.

[01:50:10] Yeah. So, okay.

[01:50:12] This week, because this weekend is Memorial Day weekend.

[01:50:18] The Stumpstache segment is Memorial Day themed.

[01:50:23] So we have three questions.

[01:50:26] The first question, Stasher, you're ready? No cheating. You need to turn off your internet search engine.

[01:50:32] I want to see your hands up away from the screen.

[01:50:35] Okay. Good.

[01:50:37] B, if you know the answers, just initially keep them to yourself.

[01:50:41] First question, true or false?

[01:50:46] God damn.

[01:50:47] Memorial Day was once known as declaration, Decoration Day.

[01:50:54] Memorial Day was once known as Decoration Day.

[01:50:59] True or false?

[01:51:05] Who is going to get me killed with all these fellow Americans that have me here?

[01:51:09] They're going to be like, you're goddamn not American.

[01:51:12] They're going to picket your house. True?

[01:51:14] True. Well, yeah. I mean, some people would even say to this very day, it ought to be known as Decoration Day

[01:51:23] because Memorial Day has somewhat pulled away the focus of what Memorial Day or Decoration Day was intended to be.

[01:51:36] It was established in May 1868, is a day to honor the fallen soldiers of the Civil War.

[01:51:47] It was designated to fall on May 30th when the flowers were in bloom and fellow soldiers and family would decorate the graves of their comrades with flowers and flags.

[01:51:59] In 1971, the federal government passed a law to make it known as Memorial Day.

[01:52:07] So I wasn't aware that it was as, well, may not seem recent to you two, but as recent as Memorial.

[01:52:14] In 1971, it became known as Memorial Day when the federal government enacted the Uniform Monday Holiday Act,

[01:52:24] which was mainly intended to create three-day weekends for federal workers.

[01:52:30] Interesting. Okay.

[01:52:32] Interesting.

[01:52:33] Just as a side note, all of these questions and answers were taken from the AARP website.

[01:52:43] All right. So we know this is with a high degree of accuracy because if it's not on AARP, it's a bunch of bull.

[01:52:52] Okay. Number two, are we ready? Are you ready Stas? Say I'm ready.

[01:52:58] Yes.

[01:52:59] Okay. What town is considered the birthplace of Decoration Day?

[01:53:07] If you have like some game show theme music, you can play it for us.

[01:53:12] Yeah, I don't have any game show.

[01:53:14] What town is considered, what town? No, no, that's the birthplace of Sal's Pizza.

[01:53:19] It's gotta be Indiana.

[01:53:21] Be, you can't shout it out. You're a smart guy. You're in touch with your inner self, but don't shout out the answers.

[01:53:31] What town is considered the birthplace of Decoration Day?

[01:53:34] I use my whatever thing be. Go ahead and go ahead and answer.

[01:53:40] I can't. I can't. I've been told not to.

[01:53:43] He's answering. Indiana somewhere.

[01:53:46] Well, Indiana could be a good choice because we often associate Memorial Day weekend with the Indianapolis 500.

[01:53:56] They're almost synonymous with each other.

[01:54:00] However, in 1966, President Johnson proclaimed Waterloo, New York as the birthplace of Memorial Day.

[01:54:10] However, should come as no surprise that as many as 25 other towns in the country claim to be the true birthplace of Decoration Day.

[01:54:22] And it's not solely right from Waterloo, New York.

[01:54:26] And one of the things that would justify another place is being the birthplace of Decoration Day.

[01:54:34] As if we remember, it started off as a day to honor fallen Civil War soldiers, many of whom died in the South.

[01:54:44] Nonetheless, Waterloo, New York. Good old Waterloo.

[01:54:49] Up above the Finger Lakes.

[01:54:52] All right. Now, now, folks, here we are.

[01:54:56] We're at our third and final question because Stash has been struggling both with respiratory ailments and intellectual obstruction disorder, also known as what is that?

[01:55:09] That would be IOD, right? Just made that up on the fly. IOD.

[01:55:14] Number. Yeah.

[01:55:16] Number three, true faults.

[01:55:21] Is there a national law that advises Americans to take a minute of silence at 3 p.m. on Memorial Day to remember those who died in military service?

[01:55:38] I'm going to say false because I've never done it in my life, but that's got to be true.

[01:55:43] You're wrong. Complete false is the wrong answer.

[01:55:47] It is true that in December 2000, just 24 years ago, the U.S. Congress passed the National Moment of Remembrance Act, which says at 3 p.m. local time, Americans are asked to take a minute of silence to remember those who have died in military service.

[01:56:09] So we're according to the AARP webpage, which I wholeheartedly copied this from.

[01:56:16] So wherever you are, put down your drink, set aside your plate of food and take time to honor those soldiers who have given their lives because of them.

[01:56:28] We continue to enjoy these celebrations with family and friends.

[01:56:34] So that's it for the three questions.

[01:56:37] Stas, I mean, you kind of did OK.

[01:56:40] I'm going to go live in Russia now. I should probably call the communist.

[01:56:45] Yeah, well, you know, so now you're equipped for this Memorial Day to A, educate others and B, at 3 o'clock on Monday, you can take your minute of silence wherever you are, what you're doing at 3 p.m.

[01:57:01] Honor those who died in service to this country.

[01:57:04] Is that Eastern Standard Time?

[01:57:06] It says your local time, right?

[01:57:08] I thought it was interesting that they make it the local time as opposed to, you know, 3 o'clock Eastern Standard Time where, you know, coast to coast folks are honoring that at the same time.

[01:57:23] Maybe you ask that question because you're more into like this collective spiritual moment in the country as opposed to these moments in isolation.

[01:57:34] We should be in a collective spiritual moment.

[01:57:37] I get that. You see everyone and everything is being connected.

[01:57:42] Yeah.

[01:57:43] Almost like a pantheism. Is that kind of like a pantheism or am I off base with that?

[01:57:50] No comment.

[01:57:51] No comment.

[01:57:52] All right.

[01:57:53] All right, Ted, enough.

[01:57:55] Yeah.

[01:57:56] All right. I'm going to I'm taking the notes for this week for some stash and it's gone.

[01:58:03] They're gone.

[01:58:04] It's a God.

[01:58:05] All right.

[01:58:06] So the post hike, bruising bites after you hike, where do you go to have something to eat that you would like to get out of local shout out to?

[01:58:16] If I'm in the Catskills near Tannersville, I'll go to Last Chance.

[01:58:22] Nice. Last Chance Brewing.

[01:58:24] Nice. Good stuff.

[01:58:25] So nice.

[01:58:28] Well, my pen doesn't work.

[01:58:29] So Last Chance.

[01:58:31] I love that.

[01:58:32] I've I went there actually after the one hour of the episode.

[01:58:36] So sweet.

[01:58:38] So, Ted, where were you?

[01:58:40] Did you do anything after your hike over there?

[01:58:43] Yeah. If Moe's listening, Moe's going to identify with this when you're in the Westkill Lexington area, you stop at Van Dusen's.

[01:58:55] Yes.

[01:58:56] Yeah. I didn't this time.

[01:58:58] I just grabbed a Coke to go.

[01:59:01] Nothing like a cold drink at the end of the day.

[01:59:03] But on a hot day in the Catskills, if you're over in that area, he's got some of the best soft serve around.

[01:59:11] So swing in, get a soft serve ice cream cone, hang out under the pine trees on the side of the building.

[01:59:19] Yeah, definitely right off of the Lexington turn for 23A, I believe.

[01:59:25] You can't miss it.

[01:59:27] It's the only grocery store in town.

[01:59:29] Yep.

[01:59:30] Awesome.

[01:59:31] So, B, thank you for joining us tonight.

[01:59:33] Really appreciate it.

[01:59:34] Hope you had a good time and hopefully we get the message out.

[01:59:39] Of course, that nature is for everyone and nature can heal everyone.

[01:59:43] Yeah.

[01:59:44] Yeah.

[01:59:45] Thanks. Thank you for having me.

[01:59:47] I really appreciate it.

[01:59:49] If I may, I'd like to just make one quick announcement.

[01:59:54] So August, the recovery hike for August is going to be kind of exciting.

[01:59:59] We're doing a camp out at my farm in Elizaville.

[02:00:06] Details will come up further, but it's, excuse me, night at Kumbaya and seeing the stars.

[02:00:15] We got some telescopes and what have you.

[02:00:18] I've got three and a half miles of hiking and mountain biking trails on the farm.

[02:00:24] And yeah, we'd love to host some folks and have a good time.

[02:00:30] Very cool.

[02:00:31] Is it bring your own tent?

[02:00:33] We do have a number of tents, but yes, it will kind of bring your own bedding if you want to bring your own tent.

[02:00:42] Yeah.

[02:00:43] So, but we have like 10 or 15 Coleman tents, which you can share.

[02:00:49] So, yeah.

[02:00:51] It sounds like the perfect opportunity for somebody who's new to overnighting who doesn't have a tent to do it around people who are equipped to do it.

[02:01:02] To do some overnighting outside and get their feet wet doing this.

[02:01:08] Excellent.

[02:01:09] Yeah.

[02:01:10] Awesome.

[02:01:11] So, be our tag recovery hike in everything and everything that we do for this.

[02:01:17] So once again, thank you to the monthly supporters and the monthly sponsors for supporting the show.

[02:01:23] We really appreciate you guys.

[02:01:24] Thank you to everyone who is listening.

[02:01:26] And thank you once again to everybody who has donated.

[02:01:29] And thank you, B, for joining us tonight and talking about your recovery with nature and with the Catskills of Hudson Valley and how it has healed you and different aspects.

[02:01:40] Have a good night.

[02:01:42] Hopefully we'll see each other on the trail, sir.

[02:01:45] Yeah, yeah.

[02:01:46] Let's connect and go on a hike.

[02:01:48] Excellent.

[02:01:49] Do Devil's Path in a day and you'll freaking I'll drop off probably halfway in.

[02:01:54] I'll have to carry your ass.

[02:01:56] I'll do the second half.

[02:01:58] Stosh can do the first half.

[02:01:59] It'll be a good workout challenge for me, man.

[02:02:02] Yeah.

[02:02:03] All right.

[02:02:04] I like that.

[02:02:05] I like that.

[02:02:06] Game on.

[02:02:07] All right.

[02:02:08] So let's keep in touch.

[02:02:09] Have a good night, man.

[02:02:10] Great.

[02:02:11] Be well.

[02:02:12] Bye.

[02:02:16] Bye everyone.

[02:02:17] I just want to thank you for listening to the show.

[02:02:19] If you enjoyed the show, subscribe and throw down a smooth review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts

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[02:02:42] Remember this.

[02:02:44] You got to just keep on living in the cat skills, man.

[02:02:49] L-I-V-I-N.

[02:02:52] Wicked.

[02:02:53] Wicked.

[02:02:54] Wicked.

[02:02:55] Wicked.